I came to Norwich in 1954 as a child. It was at that time still very warworn either because of existing bomb damage or lack of investment in period building stock. The potential of new developments gave rise to considerable excitement and the sentiments of Dirty Old Town were sung all over Britain. In a short space of time Norwich developed the Inner Ring Road, St Stephen’s Street, Heartsease, Vauxhall Street Housing, the Glass Tower and Norwich Union building All Saints Green and Sovereign Securities Anglia Square development. Additionally, there was the new Public Library and St Andrews multi-storey car park plus the one at Malthouse. The Anglia Square development was done to a price, so many features and facilities but only so much to spend. The anchor was the Stationery Office as The Square never really took off commercially and when the Stationery Office closed the whole edifice struggled financially. As a development it was typical of the structures of its day in both Norwich and elsewhere but was always a difficult aesthetic to like!
Thanks Glyn, that's a great and evocative comment, especially the reference to Dirty Old Town! There are lots of emotions about Anglia Square as evidenced here and on the Facebook posts. I was back there today, and have to say it looks a blot on the landscape to me!
Glyn, wow, thank you for this information. I wondered when the "old" new library was built. I spent many hours there. I was so sad when I learned it had burned down. Anglia Square always seemed like an eyesore to me in an otherwise lovely city. I never enjoyed going there, it seemed so out of place. Cheers.
@@thisorthat7626 The library was designed by City Architect David Percival if memory is correct and won a national award. There was huge criticism when it caught fire as the fire station was opposite and nobody noticed! A member of the public had to ring in! In truth such castigation was probably a little unfair. Norwich between the sixties and the 80’s was subject to a number of fires and explosions which raised eyebrows as to their convenience. In particular Tony’s Place in Exchange Street. This was to be an insurance job and the “ Hookies “ who torched it got it badly wrong. Having worked from bottom to top of the building soaking it in petrol they struck the match. Hmmm! The building, next to Thorn’s, landed in the street and Jarrolds and various other adjacent premises. It took about a week before the street was back in use and that is why, folks, the building next to Thorns is truncated to this day. I remember passing it on the way to work next day it was like an illustration from WWII. In the County arson was a popular pastime with old structures that planning consent could not be obtained on but insurance companies grew wise and there were some prosecutions. Norwich’s great problem post war was its inability to decide its vision and hold it. The traffic plan changed in major form every 5 years, so much so there was a published book about A4 size, with them all in from 1946 to about 1960. Each change affected the development of the centre and its periphery substantially which is why there are so many odd developments from that era. I have lived in the County for many years now and hardly recognise much of it. I cannot imagine being a small boy on a bicycle again and cycling around and across the City in today’s traffic. Currently Tombland is being redeveloped; gentrified would be a better description except it is for the benefit of tourism. With that thought I will leave you!
@@glynluff2595 Thank you for such detailed information. I didn't know about all the arson going on though I had seen a lot of changes over the decades. My last visit was in 2015 and things had changed a lot since my previous visits. I hope to get back for a long visit this year once travel is opened up again. There are so many places I want to see and photograph. Cheers.
This brought back some memories. I lived at 133 St Georges Street, which was next door but one from the Duke of Sussex pub. Saturday morning pictures was for the kids at the old Odeon when I paid my 6pence to enjoy a cowboy film, after which I was Tom Mix or Gene Autrey for the next couple of hours. The Shuttles was my Fathers local and Charles Dix is where my Uncle worked. All, sadly, now gone. Next to Charles Dix was the tobacconist which old Mr and Mrs Roe kept. I still have some of the foreign coins they gave me which they said they had been "diddled" with over the years. Happy days.
I got an email containing a very interesting comment by Kokiri, but can't find it on here. That sometimes happens, don't know why. Thank you Kokiri for your comment, which I've copied here:- I've lived in Norwich for most of my life, I turn 25 this year. I've always known this building to be called Sovereign house, as apposed to a stationary office In my teen years I remember, being young and stupid enough to think sneaking into this building with some friends was a good idea We made it Inside by climbing into one of the smashed out windows which was only loosely covered by a white sign that says "to let" on it A sign, of which is still there. To reach this window, we gingerly walked across what was a 20ft+ drop above solid concrete. When we were inside there was alot of things I think you might find interesting, and it's worth pointing out that alot of homeless people actually live in this building on particularly cold nights. Firstly alot of old paper work is the main things that's everywhere, alot of the old staff photos, staff lists, administration work is all left there laying around the floor. The floors themselves are somewhat caved in by rain damage, especially on the third floor where it's very likely you'd fall through if you didn't know the building well (and this was 10 years ago, so it's likely worse now) But the main entrance is a sort of huge hallway with stairs in 3 different directions, I remember thinking it was odd that this area was absolutely covered in dog biscuits. Entire packs just scattered around everywhere, Upon closer inspection you would find smashed out doors, walls and windows. We also found blank shotgun shells. After doing some digging on why this would be so close to what is still a busy commercial hub Apparently the police use this site to train armed response units, aswell as K-9 squads. If they are to this day, I'd be very surprised at the sheer state of the building now. Some of the stand out features of this building is old dark boards in what was likely a staff room, scenes of where people have had some sort of rave or party and about a decades worth of people breaking ins litter. What annoys me most about this building still being there, is that everytime we've heard of a new project being funded or being proposed. It gets blocked by people complaining that the building is part of "Norwich's sky line" or that anything else would ruin the ancient aesthetic of Norwich. This building is a risk to people's health, it attracts stupid young people like I once was, and could one day collapse in certain areas that pose a risk to everything nearby. Next time you see a survey or a council meeting on the topic of this building, please vote to take any action that would see the revamping or simple removal of this site. let's get this building out of the loophole it seems to have found itself In!
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich really enjoyed your old record store video too as I have been a massive collector of vinyl for decades and probably shopped at most of the old stores from years past
Mmm, I just knew before watching that this was gonna attract all the snobs of Norwich in the comments, just like it does under any Anglia Square article on the Evening News website. It is a crying shame we lost some beautiful buildings - and thanks John for compiling the pictures & details. I can admire the stark, imposing and brutal charm in brutalist structures. Until only quite recently there was a Polish artist called Jerzy who had his studio a few doors up from Epic; he had taken some wonderful shots of the Hollywood cinema. We have a couple of his pieces hanging on our walls, though not of the square or cinema. I've lived in the area for over a decade now and have seen the effects of gentrification filter out to my streets, losing a few pubs in the process, but also reviving a few others and creating great cafes etc along the way. But I welcome the rag-tag bunch of 'characters' that gather around Anglia Square, the flyover and Magdalen St; they're certainly not people I look down my nose at and you usually find those that sneer at a mere mention of the area tend never to frequent it anyway. Having seen this video and read these comments, I can though appreciate the sense of loss from those old enough to remember it before great buildings were demolished. But I don't count myself as one of the "backwards people" in showing any sort of resistance to letting developers run riot with colossal schemes and it's not for the puzzling reasons some commenters have claimed. Some opinions will never budge, but suggestion it's the worst the city (as a whole, beyond the centre) has to offer, is glossing over plenty of other rough & ready spots in the surrounding neighbourhoods. Infamous, perhaps, is more accurate.
Thank you very much for such a detailed and balanced comment. There's no doubt that there is a lot of affection for Anglia Square which you e reflected very well. You might like to see my videos about Magdalen Street and Under the Flyover if you haven't already. Also in February I will have one about Calvert Street, which used to run under the stationery office.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich yes, the flyover, mag st east & west & colegate videos are all lined up in my watch later playlist and I'll look out for the new one on top, thanks.
Great video - loved the old photographs and your detailed commentary. So sad those old streets and buildings were demolished. The area had so much more character then.
Why do we have to have tower blocks. This is not America. We are only a small island. Look at the disaster that happened to Grenfell Tower block. All this was caused because no one wanted to spend money on the Tower block eg sprinkling system. Also they knew the cladding was highly flammable but bought it because it wasn't too expensive. We do NOT want another accident to happen like this again!!!
Fantastic thanks for making this. My Grandmother lived in this area 1920s - 1940s and told me lots about it. Broke her heart when the built Anglia Square.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich I've always been interested in all areas of Norwich history, I have books, vids, DVDs. I even did my own dashcam vid through Norwich a few years ago which is on RU-vid, alot has changed in just a few years!
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich So do I, as my family have been here since the 1700s I often see old photos and think thats the Norwich my family knew and went about their daily business, what they had seen. Electricity, running water, 1st Tram, 1st Motor car, flushing toilet, 1st film. ect there is a series of books called "Norwich now & Then" and "Past & Present" which I found very interesting, think they are by Neil Story.
Interesting video. I've lived in Norwich most of my life (now 69) and remember going to the old Odeon. I've always heard Botolph pronounced as Bot-olph (bot as in robot), rather than Bo-tolph.
Yes I do to. Norwich has had much unecsesarry destruction of its buildings and streets, especially pubs like the Bell , that was bloody horrific what happened to it. Would be a tourist attraction today instead it’s a weatherspoons How Sad..... Humans will never learn by their mistakes.
On a side-track, but my memory having being jogged by the Odeon pictures... do you recall a cinema in what was not much more than a large shed on Nothrumberland Street? It was on the city side between West End St and Dereham Rd. I stumbled in to it when it was derelict in the early 1980s probably. There was still an old projector inside. I think it's still wasteland now, next to an electricity substation - can't remember as I last walked past it a few months ago.
really enjoy your videos and the laid back style and nice music in the background but not overpowering. Please keep making videos if possible they are so interesting
Regarding the date of the picture of the old Odeon, the film showing is 'A fist full of Dollars'; The film came out in mid 1967, so the photograph must date from around then.
All very interesting. I actually have the Royal 1938 book showing my Granddad Charles Watling, Lord Mayor of Norwich, accompanying the King & Queen opening the City Hall.
I went to see the thunderbirds film at the Odeon in the sixties. Brutalist is an understatement after the demolition of businesses and homes. I flew my drone over part of this area. Its on my channel. You can see vegetation growing in the cracks in the roof! Fantastic information and video from you as usual. 👍 3D
Thank you so much it was very interesting. I hope the planners get it right this time and build something that is pleasing for every body. hopefully no tower block.
My Grandad often talks about how his parents and Grandparents lived on and around St George's Road, which is behind the Stationary offices. I believe the bricks from the original Road are still there. We also had distant relatives live at Felmongers yard, which partially suffered demolition when the flyover was built. I'm led to believe that the poverty on this area was awful. Always look forward to your videos John. Have you considered one about the yards of Norwich?
Thanks for your kind comment Chris. Yes, St George's Street ran all the way from the city centre, near St Andrew's hall to the first Odeon cinema. I have considered doing one on the Yards, but at the moment they are tending to crop up in other videos about streets, like St Stephen's.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich I can't remember, to be honest. I do remember the bus going down Magdalen Street into the city early on in our time at school and seeing a pub with a sign saying it was a "freehouse" and thought it meant the beer was free. I can vaguely remember the flyover being built, but that is about all.
I wonder if it's identifiable from any of the pictures in the video. I'll try and find out where it was. I can't recall seeing it mentioned in my research.
Sorry John, it was 1851 not 1841. The Census shows Jeremiah Wells and His Wife Martha Ann nee Elvin and their two daughters Martha Ann aged 3 years and Mary Ann aged 17 months all Living in Cat & Fiddle Yard Botolph St, He was a Labourer, they had just moved into the City from Wymondham
Hi Chris, this link showsa Cat and Fiddle pub, on Magdalen Street, which is very close to Botolph Street. Not sure if there's a connection. historyofnorfolk.com/norwich/cat-and-fiddle-history/
Hi used to live on Botolph Street, after the war started my fathers fishing tackle shop which I think was number 39 and called H.Hardingham was closed and we moved to Thorpe ST. Andrews, I never seem able to get a look at what it used to look like, from memory when I went there in 1969 I thought it was still there, next to Valoris fish and chip shop, as I have lived in Australia since 1960 I could be off with the number. Do you have any pictures of further up Botolph Street on right hand side than you actually put in the video?
When I made this video, some 18 months ago, I didn't know about the Picture Norfolk archive. I've just looked at that in connection with your question, and although I can't find anything specific, you may recognise something. Google "Picture Norfolk" and search for "Botolph Street Norwich". Good luck!
It's a shame there isn't an aerial map of Norwich taken way before Anglia Square was built. I would love to see what Botolph Street and the area of what is now occupied by Anglia Square since the 1970s would've looked like even as far back as the Second World War or even the 1950s and 1960s.
Great video! I was at UEA during the 70s and at the time I thought that Anglia Square was an abomination - especially the Government Stationery Office - it looks even worse now. The architects' drawings for future developments you showed look absolutely horrible too. Development of the site is a potentially lost opportunity - couldn't Norwich do with something more pleasing and fitting to an attractive, historic and self-proclaimed 'fine' city???
It's a shame that the multi storey car park is now out of use. It used to cost £2.70 a day to park there back in 2009, which was great value for money. Nevertheless, I can't believe that it's taking so long to redevelop the area! I used to think that Sovereign House would make a great apartment block with all that glass but I now think that houses are what's needed, not flats. There's perhaps will be less demand for shops bar the odd newsagent.
Yes it was definitely the go-to car park if you were in the city for any length of time. I can't imagine when the area is eventually redeveloped that it's remembered with any great affection.
Interestingly I've read in recent days that Nottingham is considering replacing a similar shopping centre with the original layout of lanes. That could be a very interesting experiment.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich Yea, they should spend money doing that instead of building yet another 'modernisation' - Nottingham leading the way on that score ! The building shown with the sloping glass front, sorry I forget the name, a print press ? These buildings need to be revived, rebuilt and recreated as they were,. It is NOT that expensive, it has been done in places like Warsaw, where they rebuilt the core of the old town
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich Yea, also City Hall people or people who know the Planning lot, some one must know this is possible or even mooted - so maybe someone with some influence can get in the mix and demonstrate it is nt a nutty idea and been done in Europe - I think even, the little section further up Magdalen, on the river at Quayside, is an example of what is possible - what a great little lane area that could be
@@junctionfilms6348 coincidentally I sat in Anglia Square with a coffee today and thought how said it all looked. The empty buildings surrounding the square, the car park, everything. In my mind's eye I visualised a recreated version of Botolph Street running through it. It would be different to the original, but what a great idea it might be.
@@JohnAtkinsLostNorwich someone mentioned it once, I've never checked it, I just believed them as they said it with such confidence, but it could explain why it's never been torn down
I work in anglia square, its a dump & the sooner its pulled the better for eveyone. When it rains all day the whole place leaks for 3 days after. Ask anyone lives or work around the square want done away with, most people who want to remain live miles away. Plus its rat invested.
The most depressing area of Norwich. What a shame they demolished the Odeon with its Art Deco facade and interior just to build ugly, nondescript buildings with absolutely no character. Thanks for another interesting video.
I grew up on Magdalen street From 1957 onwards. What a disaster. Brutalist was Brutal. How to destroy an amazing medieval part of Norwich and then abandon it. Shame is all l can say. Build no more monstrosities, turn the area into a memorial park for past mistakes.
@@geoffpoole483 I'm no expert on this architectural style, but I don't like Anglia Square. I think the style may also result in listed status which can cause its own issues.
Interesting how the old buildings that were demolished were probably more than 100 years old, but looked a lot better than Anglia Square at 50 years old. The brutalist style did not age well.
What a bloody mess Norwich Council made in allowing a area once full of lovely old buildings all of which could have been restored. The architects should have been shot for such a hideous creation and to add insult to injury they put a motorway flyover in for good measure . The authorities have no soul. They wanted to knock down Elm Hill remember. The excuse always is to modernise and accommodate increased traffic , Now they are pedestrianizing most of Norwich and going over budget yet again.. Is it too much to hope the views of the locals will be listened to when they knock down Anglia square along with that eyesore the Stationery Office. Please give us something in keeping with what was once a city to be proud of.
