By popular demand through comments, I am testing the Remington .38 Short 125 gr LRN through my 4" barrel VS a 95 gr .380 ACP full metal jacket. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
Thanks for the video Sam. I really look forward to them. When I was a teenager the local pistol range was 50 yards. And my friends and I use to practice at that range half the time. We had a lot of fun. It made us much better shots . Before deer season we practiced at 75 yards . Years ago when they redid the range they reduced it to 25 yards. I saw a government statistics that stated the the most deadly caliber in self defense shootings is the 380 . It stated that the reason is more women were involved in self defense shootings and they usually use a 380 . Don't know if it is true or not. But it does make sense.
Great shooting with the 38 short! The 38 S&W(145-6 gr) was always said to be an accurate load. Interestingly, Buffalo Bore's hot 38 S&W is a 125 grain bullet, just like this short colt. I really appreciate the breadth of your testing. The handgun shooting sport has so many facets. One of them is collecting and using older guns, like the 32 cal series, 38 S&W, the 44 series, etc. You are doing many of us a great service with testing many of these or their modern ballistic equivalents.
I'm impressed that you know about the 38 S&W. I have a revolver chambered in the cartridge that belonged to my Great Uncle. I fired it a few times at woodchucks, and it didn't perform very well. Still, it's an interesting gun.
@@ghostinthemachine8243Agree. Interestingly, the old Smith and Wesson ads described their little Terrier 38 S&W revolver as small and light but with still adequate "shocking power". When humans are shot there is often the psychological shock of being shot with anything while with animals the physiological effects are the sole factor with shot placement being the main thing.
@@ghostinthemachine8243 Another thing Gun Sam has done is extensive testing with the old LRN bullet. I have always been amazed and confused by those tests.
I don't discount a .380 acp either, but the .38 short Colt is so old it could have been Tutankhamon's edc and yet 4 shots at 75 yards are in the A zone, I don't think there are that many rounds that will do so well.
Because my channel's testing doesn't 'revolve' around testing 9mm, and comparing to 9mm, along with the oddball caliber - 9mm, and ending with "with modern bullet technology, 9mm beats every cartridge that exists"? lol
I'm always scared to watch your videos because I know I'll be spending my "lunch money" right after your video! I bought a new snubbie after your "pelvis breaker" video and can't wait to get to the range this weekend. Keep up the good work!
Interesting comparison. I'd never really thought about weaker 38 loads. That's why I try not to miss any episodes on the channel, always a learning experience 👍
Interesting as always. In the day just about everyone got a top break revolver in .38 short at the hardware store for a cheap carry gun. The amazing thing is that you found someplace that still sells the rounds!
Those top breaks were .38 S&W, not .38 Colts. Totally different cartridge. Also, .38 S&W was never called, even colloquially, a .38 short. It was called the .38 "Regular," as opposed to the .38 "Special."
Excellent and helpful comparison. Idk where I’ve been all these years but never realized we could shoot .38 short colt in a .357. I always thought the cylinder chamber was too long.
That's interesting. Some would say that you actually need a gun that was made for 38 short Colt because of the distance between the bullet and the barrel. I say just use 38 special wad-cutters and don't worry about it 😊.
Yeah, the wadcutters are about the same as these for power and effectiveness and my ultimate recommendation to people who can't find obscure rounds like this. I do tests like this for people very very recoil sensitive, so if a person has bad wrists or whatever, I will suggest something like this and if they say they can't find them, I say if you can handle this, you pretty much can handle .38 SPL wadcutters just as well.
@@GunSamSo only if fast ?700plus? wadcutters bothered a person would one try to find these .38 short right? And I guess maybe introducing new shooters? Where does .38 long come in to the discussion, if at all? I understand .32, .32mag.327 Federal is worth looking into with .32 long being good for low recoil but there are so many.38s out there I find this content very valuable.
@@GunSam I load 38 Special wadcutters in my vintage lightweight Colt Agent. I also have a box of 38 Short Colt but have not shot it yet. Thanks for your informative video.
Surprising penetration on the 38 there. If you put the hole in the right spot you'll still stop the threat. Velocity not bad either compared to the old RN 38 Spl.
Always a great video. Still seeing those two boxes of .38 Short Colt at the gun shop I most frequent, and will probably grab them just because next time I’m in there. Big .380 fan, and I appreciate the comparison!
The 380 wins on ammo availability because I can't find 38 Short anywhere, they are sold out. The 380 FMJ overpenetrated so the 38 Short won. People who want less recoil and blast are not experienced shooters typically so a revolver loaded with 38 Short would be a better and safer option for them. Of course 148 grain wadcutter loads might work for them in case 38 Short ammo is not available. Maybe a comparison between the 38 Short and 38 Special 148 grain wadcutter load might be worthwhile. Thanks for another great video.
They never went away lol. I did do several videos where it was like ".357 Sig VS 9mm+P" and stuff like that, and I will continue to do so, but I am regaining some more of the interest into oldschool revolver stuff. Like I have more .38 Special 'Super Police' videos coming, I am buying more .38 and .32 Wadcutters and I am also working up the FBI load, .38 Special 158 gr LHP at 900 FPS to test. Most of the modern loadings of that load do not hit the 900 FPS they are meant to, they hit more like 750 FPS and thus I cannot do realistic oldcshool tests like I want to, so I got to make some!
@@GunSam definitely looking forward to all of those, especially the FBI load. I found that i got increased leading at anything over 860fps (Speer 158gr LSWCHP, through a 4” model 13). Would also like to see your take on the old “Treasury Load”, with the 110gr SJHP (we were issued those in Australia back in the 90s).
@@GunSam I have my 180 grain hard cast up to almost 900 out of the 4" M-64 and about 800 from the 2" M-640. But that seems to be the limit if I want to keep them at Standard Pressure. Maybe, later in the summer, I might push them to 38+P just for giggles.
Thanks for the video Sam,smaller calibers are great for better controlability and man are you one hell of a marksman, you know your stuff !...except for the .22lr the ammo support on the smaller calibers leaves quite a bit to be desired!
I got curious about early center fire revolver cartridges. The exact date of the .38 heel outside lubricated .375 colt (Short) I could not find, but it was used to convert 36 navy chambered guns to cartridges. An outside lubricated .359 inside lube version was designed later. The 32, colt (Short colt) that the brits invented as the .320 does have a firm date to it. Designed 1868 Produced 1868 - 1920s The old rounds penetrated reasonably well when fired into an abdomen covered with the clothing of the day. But hitting anything hard such as a speech that Teddy Roosevelt had folded in his breast pocket would slow it down considerably. In one case I read of during a strike A union leader named Big Bill Haywood of the western federation miners (IIRC) shot a deputized strike breaker three times with one from a cheap top break revolver that I think was .38 SC two of the bullets were stopped by the mans forearm. He quipped later on when he heard that the man was only badly hurt in the hospital that next time he would use a stronger shooting gun.
A few notes about 38 nomenclature. The 38 Short Colt with heelless bullet, 38 Long Colt, 38 Special, and 357 Magnum all use .357 caliber projectiles and their cases differ only in length and power level. You can chamber and fire the shorter rounds in the longer chambers, but do not attempt the reverse. Even if a longer round fits in a shorter chambering, the cylinder is not designed to handle the greater pressures and may self-destruct. The 38 S&W, 380 British, 38/200, and 38 Colt New Police are nominally .360 caliber and are fully interchangeable with each other but are too large in diameter to fit in any gun chambered for the cartridges listed in the paragraph above. Some 38/200 guns have been rechambered to 38 Special by reaming their chambers deeper to accommodate the 38 Special case. The result is that the 38 Special cases are prone to bulge and rupture when fired because the 38 S&W chambers were already too wide to allow proper fitting of the 38 Special case. Deepening the chambers did not resolve this issue; it merely allowed and undersized case to now fully seat in the cylinder.
While not ideal, you can basically get away with a .360" bullet in a .38 Special or .357 Magnum revolver, as long as it's a pure lead bullet. I watched Paul Harrell's video a couple years ago where he attempted to chamber and fire .38 S&W in a variety of .38 Special and .357 Magnum revolvers, some would fit and some would not, however if I recall the Remington .38 S&W reliably fit into all the revolvers he tried it in. As an overview, it IS sound advice to tell people they CANNOT shoot Remington .38 S&W in their .38 and .357 Revolvers because they won't take to heart all the small details more experienced people know, such as how .38 S&W is as low as .38 Special for pressure and that lead deforms, so they might get the idea that they can cram a Buffalo Bore hard cast .38 S&W in a .38 Special revolver made in 1950 and be fine....
@@GunSam Yes, I saw his video and avoided mention of it because this topic is already too confusing without a crib sheet. Even more concerning to me are all the old Colt 38 revolvers with bored through chambers that lack the case mouth step that will prevent a 357 round from fitting. Firing such a cartridge in them almost guarantees destruction of the cylinder and a possible trip to the emergency room.
Another great vid..... I'd like to see a test with .38 S&W...which is a little easier to find...and cheaper than .38 Short Colt....at least in my area. But unlike the short Colt, I guess you shouldn't fire it out of a .38 Special revolver. Good to see these tests for people who are recoil sensitive....
Have you considered doing a loading of a 32 cartridge with one of the "pelvis breaker" type bullet? just saying that bullets for the 303 brit. are the same diameter but im not certain that's a stellar idea. love the videos
SAM: SUGGESTIONS for future vids - 380 ACP vs 32 H&R Mag; 380 ACP vs 38 S&W Long; and 32 H&R Mag vs 38 S&W Long... all from short barreled pocket guns such as Ruger LCR or S&W 632UC for the 32 H&R, Sig P238 or Glock 42 for the 380 ACP, and S&W J Frame for the 38 S&W Long.. Now, that would be 3 GREAT comparisons!!
I believe the original .38 Colts were conversions of 1851 and 1861 Navies. If so, those were relatively heavy guns with 7.5" barrels, so maybe not too far off from a 4"686.
I've never tested .38 Long Colt, but it's basically in comparison to .38 Short Colt the same as .22 Short is to .38 Long Rifle - about the same velocity but the Long Colt does it with a 158 gr bullet instead of 125 gr. I've loaded .38 Short Colt much hotter, but they for sure way over SAAMI specs, so technically not a ".38 Short Colt"
@@GunSam 38 LC is kind of scarce but is used in the Navy BP conversion cylinders. The 38 special will only fit in those cylinders if it is a wad cutter. I’ve never personally shot it though. I’m wondering if you’re wildly inaccurate .380 is due to the (maybe?) too hard FMJ not grabbing the rifling?
Sam do you think you would ever do something where you interact with us live.....like a premier the way Dan does for live chat. Or going live. I appreciate the way you keep it strictly business and stay out of the political stuff and sometimes people say too much, too fast when people ask questions. But just wondering if you ever considered it. Even it's just the chat version, I'm sure people would want to ask you some questions
That's the way I see it. Trains your eyes and steadiness well. My ultimate goal is to be able to never use the sights up to 10 yards, and have such muscle memory that I can pop off 6 to 10 rounds in an 8" circle at 10 yards with no sight picture, just muscle memory.
I messed around with if they would work, not even close lol. There's just nowhere to crimp and there's so little in the case, the bullet can be bent out of the case easily.
Can't choose between my Taurus 856 defender loaded with Buffalo Bore 158 grain +P LSWHP or buying a Ruger SP101 3" in .327 magnum. Weight on both is not an issue for me. Trying to figure out if the buy is worth it. The BB 38 is a nasty round. But how does it compare to your average .327 jhp load from federal or Winchester?
Well, over that range you are still looking at 500 FPS and like 70 ft lbs of energy. If you can kindly upload a video of such a badass slingshot so I can watch it, I would appreciate it.
The 75 yard shooting really surprised me. Not with the 380. I suspect those bullets are starting to tumble through the air and that's why you are getting such a wide dispersion. The 38SC are probably more stable in flight, giving you that near rifle like accuracy. Just speculation on my part of course.
I was surprised too. But even up close they seemed to be accurate. I'm guessing most soft lead oversized bullets would be accurate in this 686, as they seem to have always been accurate. Freebore obviously didn't to anything negative.
BTW, no rush on those 145 gr bullets. I plan to work up something spicy at 890 FPS+ with the 158 gr LHP bullets I am ordering, might be a couple weeks before i'd start on your bullets anyways. I figure if I can get that load up to 850 FPS in a snub, and if those 145's are about the same overall length, we might be right where we want to be for velocity. I'll overcharge if I have to being .357 Mag revolvers.
@@GunSam Fair enough. As per my last communication, I've got the 145s and 130s packed. I just need to go to USPS to get a proper box. They have good reviews. Just an insane lead time! And I swear the pictures don't do the hollow points justice. I think you'll like them. I don't think excessive pressure for 38+P will be an issue even in a 38Spl+P Air Weight to be honest. I think it's just the same cylinder bored for the .357 Mag length brass. Max strain on the top strap is pretty much down to bore friction. At least that''s what my engineering tells me. That said, it's really the velocity that matters and energy dump is also about material as well as velocity and bullet weight. Once the bullet starts opening up, it's going to start slowing down right quick.
@@Fudmottin From what I have always been told, proof rounds are double pressure. That would mean an overcharged load of 34,000 PSI is always shot through a .38 Special revolver. Now obviously a steady diet of that is not good, but also from the way I understand it, guns don't slowly wear down and then pop. If there's too much pressure, it's going to blow off the barrel and top strap with a single round of overcharged load, whether or not you ever did it before. So basically at the end of the day, if a "max charge" in a book happens to list like 18,900 PSI for let's say a .38 Special with 4.6 gr of Universal, I am not going to sweat 5.0 gr. While I can't prove pressures, my common logic says "21,000 PSI" and nowhere near reaching modern metallurgy limits for aluminum alloy. That's my take on it.
Max CIP pressure is 13,000 PSI. I don't knw what SAAMI has it at. I don't know what actual pressure these are at, no one would know without testing them.
NOW HIRING ! Need a model to stand down range of gel block, between blocks, to verify 380 ACP over penetration… This is for science not RU-vid Click Bait…
Seems like the people who do that, plan it out but somehow something always goes wrong. LIke I could calculate two blocks stops them, my luck it would veer out the top and smack me in the face.
I don't believe that the .38 S&W family is the same as the .38 Short Colt. Like the .38 Short Colt is the great grandparent, parent in order of .38 Short Colt, .38 Long Colt, .38 S&W Special, .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum. Straight '.38 S&W' (without the special at the end) is in another family.
38 Short Colt: Bullet diameter .358 inches (9.1 mm) for modern loads Rim diameter .445 in (11.3 mm) Rim thickness .060 in (1.5 mm) Case length .765 in (19.4 mm) Overall length 1.2 in (30.48 mm) 38 S&W: Bullet diameter .361 in (9.2 mm) Rim diameter .440 in (11.2 mm) Rim thickness .055 in (1.4 mm) Case length .775 in (19.7 mm) Overall length 1.240 in (31.5 mm)
I used to have a 380 EZ and I couldn't hit the earth with it. I sold it to a co-worker. I think there's something wrong with the EZ guns design or something. Lol
With a question worded that way, i'm not going to explain all the reasons why someone would, because with your attitude about it, I think it would all go over your head.
Hummm, don’t see the thumbs down numbers anymore on the u tube, ‘cause that apparently hurts feelings. 😂 @parisford2020 would be in tears. Not hatein, just sayin. 👍
