Luke talks about the past which includes the failure of the Jedi Order, the rise of the Empire and the Sith and Darth Vader's redemption. Credit goes to LucasFilm and Disney.
@@andremotivation6561 Well it's implied that he didn't know it at that time. Leia knew. She likely told him after his death when he appeared to her as a force ghost.
Luke is right though, He was a jedi, but his teachings weren't how he redeemed Vader at all. Yoda and Kenobi both thought he would have to destroy Vader, when in reality it was the opposite. Luke saved Vader, not because he was a jedi, but because of WHO he was as a person, hence why he "became a legend."
He precisely says "I'm a Jedi" when he refused to kill Vader. So he totally embraced the Jedi philosophy better than Yoda and Obi-Wan, yet it doesn't mean he despised the Jedis. That's why, with episode VI, he is hopeful and he seems that afterwards he would've taken the Jedi order to a "superior" state by learning from mistakes of the past. So that doesn't make much sense here because the way he talks about the Jedis doesn't make sense with the end of episode VI.
Dragon Queen that’s why the last Jedi is fucking horrific, Luke was more than the traditional Jedi from the prequels, TLJ just made him another Jedi who failed, in fact, this entire trilogy should’ve shown us Luke’s new Jedi order then have Ben leave, but not because of Luke, but because of something or someone else. God man this trilogy is so bad.
Kori Jenkins I feel like those 3 wanted Vader dead because of purging them and killing the kids and more but Luke is like “this is my father we are talking about I can’t just kill him and tries everything not to do that”
@@SineEyed they were all like OH YOU MISS YOUR MOTHER #DEALWITHIT, instead of giving the real comfort. they were so corrupt that they turned their backs on ahsoka Tano. They also didn't allow romantic relationships for several reasons but all that did was further the push to the darkside.
@xmeany 1000 years of peace for who?? They didn't give a fuck whether there was a huge amount of slavery and poverty on other planets as long as they had control over the republic. They weren't peacekeepers, they were glorified politicians.
Honestly, this was one of the best parts of this movie in my opinion. Hearing Luke talk about the prequel trilogy Jedi Order and Sidious mentioned by name was awesome. And it gave the prequels some much-needed recognition. Edit: Holy cow! Ten months later and I had no idea this comment got so many likes, till RU-vid decided to remind me of it for some reason. Thanks!
I hate that he blamed Obi Wan for Anakin going bad I just wanted to punch him clean in the face for talking shit about him he was the guy that made him who he is now.
@Victor Kurske I don't like calling characters Mary sues unless there's some one in the writing team inserting them self into a story. but Han, Luke, Klyo And finn have development, granted han retreated a little bit. I think ray had some grand plan they abandoned. The only big plot hole is snoke.
“He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader, when that happened the good man who was your father was destroyed.” -Obi wan Kenobi. One of the saddest lines in the entire saga.
He ceased to be Darth Vader and re-became Anakin Skywalker. When that happened, the bad man that was your grandfather was thrown in the pit of doom and destroyed.
Sadly, what people don’t realize is, it was not his descent to the Dark Side that made him evil, it was losing Padme and believing it was his fault she perished, even when he was killing the younglings, he believed he was doing the right thing to protect the security of the Empire. There’s some real interesting post- Return of the Jedi canon where he actually goes to Padme‘s tomb, with the intention to resurrection her
@@ryancols that's the most ignorant thing I've ever read, Luke in this film had character deconstruction and was badly written and went against his core character, don't spew out bullshit.
@@Danglyparts1 You fell into the trap. Heroes are romanticized and when you dig underneath you'll see that they're not always what you thought. Luke was responsible for Kylo Ren, just as the Jedi were responsible for Darth Vader, as such Luke's position here is not unbelievable. Did he save the galaxy? Yes, absolutely, but he made a mistake, a huge mistake and it was from that mistake that he believed that the Jedi was a flawed idea, and he is partially right. It's not character deconstruction, you're not taking away what he did in the OT, this is growth, you people always complain about Rey not making mistakes(Which is blatantly wrong but I digress) but you do not hold Luke to those same standards
This is also one of the main points that’s focused on in the clone wars. The shortcomings of the Jedi. They were peaceful knights before, but they became war generals. They got caught up in protecting a corrupted government. They supported the very thing that destroyed them. This is why I loved Bariss Offee. She understood the truth. She was an extremist, but she understood the truth.
She didn't understand that Palpatine was a Sith lord who was playing both sides of the Clone Wars for the purpose of eliminating both the Jedi and the Republic in order to become the master of the universe.
And now she's going to be a member of the Inquisitorius. I hope she doesn't die at the end of Tales of the Empire, but that's probably wishful thinking.
It’s so weird to me that many Prequel fans were angered at Luke’s insulting of the Jedi. But that’s perfectly in like with what George Lucas was trying to get across. The Jedi were blinded by hubris and couldn’t see the obvious. Luke was correct that the Jedi-at least, the Jedi as we knew them-needed to end. The movie left on a hopeful note, telling us the Jedi Order will rise again, but this time will learn from past mistakes and be wiser for it. That lesson goes with the story of the Prequels rather well, actually.
@@HolyShitItsHim1 That's part of why I also liked George Lucas' supposed sequel trilogy, being about the Force and it's will to control things, and breaking away from destiny. It's actually a really interesting and fitting conclusion to the story; breaking down and analyzing the setting itself, and making THAT the conflict.
@@dvnychvz9757 I feel like it's the total opposite and giving the fans (the source of revenue) the middle finger. Let the past die, kill it if you have to
"The jedi, the force, it's all real" That was the only confirmation. Maybe she was told off screen by another character about the great Luke Skywalker. But. It's just kind of bad continuity.
SpiritWolf2K Thinking stories are myths and knowing about said stories are not exclusive. That’s like saying, “Hey SpiritWolf2K, how do you know about Achilles from the Trojan War, if you think they’re a myth?”.
Luke is sort of wrong here tho. The Jedi weren't at the height of their power at that stage. During Episode I, Windu and Yoda state that they are losing their connection to the force and cannot see through the fog that sidious put up to hide his intentions. At the same time, its been stated in multiple other sources that the reason things like the Trade Federation blockade and later the Clone Wars was due in part to the Jedi's inability to stop the growing conflicts in the galaxy and they're constant siding with the Republic made it worse. Qui Gon was right, they were suppose to be serving the will of the Force not the Republic.
I think he meant their overall influence in the galaxy. They weren’t mystics or monks, they played a role in government and actually shaped the galaxy. I’m not up on my lore, so I could be wrong, but at that particular point in the prequels the Jedi seemed to be the most principal people in the galaxy save for the Chancellor himself.
John C Yea I agree. Politically they were respected galaxy wide, and they literally became generals in a war. From a “power” perspective they’d never been stronger. In terms of the force... not so much.
Absolutely correct. This scene is weird because it has some half truths--the Jedi Order of the prequels definitely had some hubris and hypocrisy, but Luke's reading of history is distorted and bitter.
@@darthnater9731 - I think the issue people have with it is that it shows a lack of originality, despite fans making numerous theories, predictions and practically writing the story themselves, and the writers and directors decide to simply rehash things we've already seen
Sam Serrao yea TLJ really is like, an awesome gift wrapped in a shitty bow-ish. I love the TLJ, it has the best scenes in any SW movie, those who deny it are blinded by ignorance. But the whole picture isn’t so solid. I understand some of the criticisms, but some are just outlandishly dumb
@@Seb_Falkor ....Ya. Can't speak for others, but I hated Last Jedi, and it had nothing to do with "Ignorance." It was the fact that I am a thinking person that I had so many problems. And it started with Force Awakens. If you liked the movie, great. But don't insult the people who had problems with the movie. Because the movie has Plot breaking problems. Disappearing daggers (that whole fight scene really). Random proclamations of love that mean nothing. Repeating that "You shouldn't be a Hero," punishing people for trying to be a hero, then suddenly Heroic action BONANZA at the end! The movie has MAJOR problems. If you can look past them, I envy you. Because I can't. There's way too much bad to ignore.
No, he's saying the Jedi are the problem, they're not. The way they ended on the wrong side as political tools was the problem and Palpatine played them beautifully. The corruption in the Republic was absolutely not their fault, their fault was staying passive. But the galaxy still needed Jedi and Luke was the perfect example of that.
This is so Luke to me. He doesn't care what he's *told* to believe about the Jedi, or about any of the legendary, powerful status they hold. Instead, he stands by what he believes to be right. Just like he did when he left the farm, just like he did when he stood before Sidious himself.
It's rather cynical of Luke, yes, but that is a good point. Why would Luke set up a new Academy with different rules if he hadn't found the flaws in the old order?
@@SamaritanPrimePerhaps because he only came to understand those flaws after his Academy literally went up in smoke. It can sometimes take time to process the truth, especially when you’re considered a legend by everyone around you.
Honestly I hated the rules of the Jedi, the argument anakin had with obi wan before they fought was kind of reasonable in a way, the Jedi practically had to be emotionless, but I guess anakin is a pretty good reason as to why
I wouldn't say that Jedi controlled the Republic, they were semi-autonomous, with their own Code and hierarchy, but ultimately answered to the Senate. They did benefit from serving the politicians, enjoying high social status and previously mentioned autonomy, lived in luxury of their ivory tower (Jedi Temple) people below them had to live in much less pleasant conditions. Now to be fair it's a job of government to rule fairly and improve life of it's citizens, and Jedi were supposed to give advice, hunt criminals and perform other missions. There were like something over 10k Jedi in a whole galaxy. No way they could be everywhere and help everybody, it's not logistically possible.
As much as I personally hated that Luke called out Obi, you've got to see things from his POV as an elder Master looking back. In 4, Obi Wan is literally one of the last 2 Masters left with the ability to train him. Hell Obi was on the Council even, making him one of the strongest Jedi ever. And then, right as they're about to escape the Death Star, Obi wan sees Luke, is 50 feet from the Falcon and a clean getaway, and instead of fleeing and fighting another day, he....lets himself get killed. I know it was to inspire Luke, but....c'mon dude, don't you think the Rebellion could've used a Jedi general hero? For heavens sake the entire reason Leia was captured and put there in the first place was cuz she was trying to FIND HIM LOL. I will give it to Luke, that was a shit move on obi's part and I sorta don't blame him for eventually souring on his first "teacher"
@@KapnKrowe You really think he could've escaped from Vader ?? I'm not so sure about that, besides he was surrounded by stormtroopers. He had no choice, he knew he could be useful to Luke as a force ghost and it was too risky to try to escape.
@@swe3t.dr3ams I rewatch ed the scene and you're right, I did forget about the troopers spectating the fight....also the fact that that distraction was protecting the crew as they boarded. I just wanted to see a full on Jedi as a Rebel general tbh
And over 5 years after TLJ’s theatrical release, this remains one of the best piece of dialogue in the sequel trilogy. With this one piece of dialogue Rian Johnson does more to acknowledge the prequels than Abrams ever did.
Right… and you must be deaf and blind. Mentions of balance and clone armies in the force awakens, the concept of bringing back balance, Palpatine’s dialogue, mustafar, the voices of the prequel Jedi, Rey with a double bladed red saber like Maul, big force jumps, attack of the clones music… all that in Ep9, shall I go on?
Daisy Ridley's delivery of "And a jedi who saved him" is so genuine. Just a full-stop, no yelling, no aggression. Just simple fact to counter Luke's perspective. Absolutely wonderful.
In a lot of ways he is right, the Jedi Council followed orders from the Senate, they didn't think deep enough, and their refusal of thinking palpatine was a sith Lord would cause their downfall.
At first, Palpatine, who the Jedi didn't know was really Sideous, threw his weight around the Jedi, usually throughout the years that Anakin was training. Sideous would take advantage of his political authority over the Jedi, to overstep their authority, right in front of them, and usually to the benefit of strengthening his relationship to Anakin. At first, "Palpatine" was really just obnoxious, and interfering in the Jedi Order. Later on, the Jedi council began to suspect that Palpatine, either knowingly, or unknowingly, was being influenced, or under the influence, of a sith. The Jedi council assumed this sith was the one they were looking for. Sometime before, or at least during Revenge Of The Sith, some in the Jedi council started to finally, and seriously consider the possibility, that Palpatine himself was the sith master they now knew as Sideous. At that point, the Jedi council felt the dark side surrounding Palpatine, though didn't know it was him, because he was using an ancient force technique to mask his true nature in the force. They still held their fears about him, and even though they couldn't prove anything, they didn't want him, or whoever might be influencing him, to have a say in Jedi affairs. For this reason, the Jedi council considered it bad enough that through Anakin, Palpatine now could know what they said, and thought in private. However, denying Anakin the rank of master ensured Anakin could not be a proxy on the Jedi council, acting on behalf of Palpatine. Sideous also used this knowledge of the Jedi reacting this way to him appointing Anakin, to cause more of a wedge between Anakin, and the council.
This movie is what made Luke one of my favourite star wars characters of all time. My heart just wept for him the moment he found out about Han and Mark Hamill's acting just blew me away. Just Love it ❤️
@@spenser9908 have you ever considered doing something unthinkable out of sheer fear? Such a thing is so human in nature that it made Luke relatable as hell. And then wat is Luke to do? He had the thought of killing his sister and best friend's child. His own nephew. He can't bare to look them in the eyes. He feels that everything is his fault and thus blames himself. If Luke was like he was in legends it would be boring. He was overpowerd and unstoppable in the legends lore that doesn't make for a very good protagonist if they have no hard battle to face. So wat do you do with a character like Luke. You take him to new and emotional places he's never been before. And that's wat this movie is. Love it XD If u disagree then that's fine. It's ur opinion and I respect it. But at least I gave my reasons x
@@redroseproductions4688 Agreed, in the OT he was young, full of hope, saw the Jedi as amazing, saw good in his father. He helped to restore the galaxy to peace. Seeing the darkness in Ben Solo would've been a rational and normal fear, he acted on sheer instinct and as he says in the film "for the briefest moment" he thought he could stop it, he was afraid of the return of an empire esque reign, adding layers of dread and fear on top of his already crumbling persona, he was seen as Luke Skywalker a "Legend" yet suffers the same problems as any normal person, it makes him an even more interesting, relatable, understandable and human character building upon who he already was in a unique way.
@@samn589 and Mark was able to get across this idea of a guy having the weight of the entire galaxy on his shoulders perfectly. He serviced the script with the greatest of talent and knowledge.
@@samn589 lol, Luke is a Grandmaster by that point. he’s had too much mental & physical training to react in such a way to when looking through someone’s mind. Luke can be a hermit & isolate himself from everyone & the force.. but a GOOD REASON… is needed for that to happen.
This is why I like TLJ. I mean Luke is right. The Jedi are romanticised way too much. I support the light side but the galaxy is suffering from war fatigue. In the Legends it's even worse.
the worst part is when people choose to ignore what Luke says, and think that they're right. A lot of the PT and some episodes of TCW show the flaws of the Jedi Order, their hypocrisy, and their hubris, what Luke's saying here is absolutely true and is what was intended when making the PT and TCW, yet people choose to be ignorant because they can't accept that they didn't pay enough attention to the movies.
@@pout6038 He was right that despite being good and honorable, the Jedi could be unreasonably strict, arrogant and hypocritical. No order is perfect. He was right about that. He was however absolutely wrong about saying they were at the height of their power. The Jedi made it clear that the dark side clouded their vision greatly and their ability to use the force diminished.
Jedi were indeed at the height of their power back then. There were thousands of them, they had privileges, semi-autonomy, lived in a big, fancy Jedi Temple and had an active part in galactic government, performing missions and giving advice to ruling body.
I love how, now matter how much the fandom is split over this movie, the one thing they all agree on is that this scene was right on the money. Everything that Luke says here? Absolutely true.
@@cesarlopez9995Because no one else has the stones to look the truth in the face. Leia is unwilling to admit the failures of the New Republic, which is why she left the core and went back to “what she knew best.” Han (at least in this continuity) never really committed to the rebel cause; he joined the fight for his friends (and later family). Only Luke can clearly see the failures of the past and only he is willing to let them die.
@@robertbusek30Han was literally a General of rebel alliance and new republic , the biggest " never really committed " I ever saw . And about jedi failure, even as big Ajunta Pall supporter ( and all dark lords after him ) I can see that galaxy need jedi to quote Darth Decimus "how predictable only a jedi could lead republic this far"
This is what should’ve been in the movie but nonetheless it was a great scene bringing light on the prequel trilogy and mention Darth sideous’ name was fantastic
This sounds like something fans would be saying. It's weird hearing characters actually talking about it in the movie. It feels almost like breaking the 4th wall or one of those recap episodes that shows sometimes have.
Honestly it shows that Luke was able to not only extensively research history, but also ascertain such information when any such records were mostly wiped out. It shows he wanted to learn about the Jedi Order, what a Jedi even is before he founded the New Jedi Order. It's a great way of saying so much with so little.
@@ahums16 I understand that, but the way they both (Luke and Rey) talk about it just sounds weird to me. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to include in the film, just that the execution felt a bit awkward to me.
the line that rey delivers about him turning vader back to good and all that comes off too meta for me. I dont think that shit was supposed to be common knowledge to of all the galaxy.
This scene carries so much weight and is one of the reasons why I just can’t see this Luke as being totally different from the OT Luke. He’s older, weathered, and tired of the lies and the deifications of the Jedi. It’s a crisis in faith because of how he failed the same way Obi-Wan and the Jedi council failed. Would I have liked to see Luke show the full extent of his abilities in physical combat? Sure. But it wouldn’t carry as much poignance or meaning as this direction they took with him. And that’s why his ending is so powerful. He lets go of his disillusionment, of all of his hang-ups and failures, and decides to believe in the good of people once again. Most of all, he finally has something he didn’t have for a long time. He has hope. And that’ll always be so inspiring to me.
This scene carries all the problems of this shit heap of a movie, and thinking this pathetic, suicidal lazy hobo is the same character as the hopeful hero who never gave up and still saw good in people is beyond delusional and ignorant. He's old, senile, and he's spouting a load of warped lies on the Jedi. The fault of the Jedi lies in losing their ways by becoming too complacent of a corrupt government controlled by their very worst enemy, and failing to recognize that. His crisis of faith has no reason to be, because neither Obi Wan or the Council could see what was going on with Anakin, and they were too blinded by being the Republic's guard dogs. That's the real failure of the Jedi, losing their ways, not their inherent philosophy. And Luke spouting this load of shit is proof of how little Johnson understood the Prequels, not just Luke. There is no poignance in what's essentially lies and warping a character into something he is not. And that's why his ending is also bullshit. He never acknowledges his flawed reasoning, he just went along with Yoda's stupid pep talk about MaRey Sue being their continuation (despite doing nothing to earn that). He never acknowledges that, instead he suddenly decides the Jedi are good again cuz reasons, and ultimately dies a pointless death, achieving nothing. And what hope? He literally trolls his manchild nephew about being a lost cause. And that's why your comment is bullshit : there's nothing inspiring into turning a hopeful character into a failed depressed husk, and then doing nothing meaningful with it.
Luke was supposed to rebuild the Jedi and improve on their mistakes, which is what he did in the EU. Instead, we got a reset button that makes no sense. There's more to Luke being powerful than just lifting stiff or swinging a lightsaber, and spouting postmodernist bullshit and dying a failure is not that.
Alec Willey I disagree, Luke wasn’t a typical Jedi and always recognized the Jedis failure which is exactly why he didn’t listen to obi wan and gods to kill Vader, he was never meant to rebuild the same Jedi from the prequels, he was meant to build the new Jedi order but with better values and understanding. This Luke is horrible, not even Luke, it’s some other guy named Jake.
This scene betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the spiritual dimension of the prequels. They were not "at the height of their powers". The prequels literally contradict this: Mace Windu: Our ability to use the Force has diminished. Yoda: Only the Dark Lords of the Sith know of our weakness. The Jedi were weakened and their vision clouded on a fundamental level during the prequels. The fall of the Jedi was not due to some materialistic hubris or arrogance, although the Sith would like to think so. The fall was instead a spiritual event brought on by the imbalance of the Force itself. Everything that went wrong, both the Jedi's inability to see what was coming and the Sith's behind the scene machinations, ultimately came from this imbalance. It's a mystical tragedy. The shroud of the Dark Side had fallen, and it did not lift until Anakin killed Palpatine, thereby fulfilling the prophecy and bringing balance to the Force, allowing the return of the Jedi in both a material and mystical sense. The only time in the movies where we see Jedi at the "height of their powers" was when Luke became a Jedi at the end of Return of the Jedi.
Also because the sith knew they could never topple the republic even back during the wars between jedi and Sith the Sith couldn't topple the republic however Darth plaguis figured out the way to defeat the republic is from the inside rather than by force. So the jedi never changed but the Sith adapted and figured out a way leading to the rise of darth sideous.
Actually what Luke didn't know was there was another legendary Jedi who used to be Ben's old master and HE was the one who was meant to be his father's master not him, and if he hadn't died he would've prevented his father from going to the dark side and becoming Vader.
this shot used by this guy made this scene even better than the one we got in proper film it showed the prequel era rise of the empire killing the jedi sidious rise and darth vader and young luke skywalker
I feel they ruin this scene completely by bringing Palpatine back. Hearing his Sith name here was so haunting because it kind of emphasized the mark he had left on the Galaxy even 30 years after his defeat, it kind of takes it away knowing he was behind all this other shit all along.
Exactly, they brought him back for dumb fan service and with this idea that since he was the big bad of the other trilogies, why not bring him back? Palpatine didn't need to be alive to be an important villain for the franchise. His legacy and impact he left is enough to make him a posthumous antagonist, the first order existing is because of him
@@TheDirtysouthfan depressed Luke himself is an interesting concept. But the way they went about it was bad. Personally I would've liked "depressed luke" to deny rey like Yoda did and make excuse. For example "the last time I trained someone like you they were corrupted by snoke" or something like that, hyping up snoke and kylo in the process. And instead of Luke trying to kill kylo for dreaming, have snoke actually corrupt him and Luke not want to hurt his nephew, losing to him and getting sent to exile or something like this. I'm just spitting ideas. My point is depressed Luke is an interesting concept. Having snoke talk down about the jedi order to try and corrupt rey and Luke not about to kill his nephew would've been much better than what we got
No, the point is Luke is giving up on what he once represented. It's the perfect twist and obstacle rather than Luke being the exact same as he was thirty years ago
@@patrickewulum3394 He literally said "I've seen this raw strength once before in Ben Solo. It didn't scare me enough then. It does now." And that's exactly what you're talking about
if you give a person a gun and he shoots up a hospital, you should at least take a part of the blame. its the cold truth, the jedi made vader possible. if it wasnt for them, anakin would probably do pod racing and drugs on tatooine for the rest of his life.
@@ThumbsHunter Not really. The rule of the force being that he would have gotten off of Tatooine and/or achieved something great. Seeing as the Jedi Order is the easiest way of getting to that, he was gravitated toward them. I mean, it is fate, after all. I mean this is a basic plot point after all with him being the "chosen one" etc.
@@Shatamx Well that's already explained in my comment. From our perspective, yes, the Jedi fucked up. And regardless they should still be held accountable. But the Jedi are still just the pawns of the Force, and the Force basically led them to Anakin. So basically, it all happened (including them fucking up), for a reason.
Any atla watchers might recognize he sounds just like fire lord ozai in this scene, especially when he says "failure" just like he did in that scene where zuko confronts him
Rey: You saw there was conflict inside him, you believed that he wasn’t gone that he could be turned Exactly so what make Luke’s nephew any different. C’mon Ryan Johnson.
I think the main difference is that in ROTJ Luke wasn't able to forsee the future using the force yet so there was nothing that could make him believe turning Vader is not possible. In TLJ he foresaw that Kylo would kill everyone despite his training and influence on him which basically showed him that he already failed and no matter what he'll try, he can't change the outcome of the future. You don't have to agree but to me that makes sense.
Luke hacked off Vader's arm because he was enraged and in a heat of battle, while Ben was sleeping and Luke was going to treacherously stab him in the back, killing him in his sleep (which is a huge irony, because that's how Palpatine killed his master Darth Plagueis the Wise). Ben woke up and acted on instinct, fear and reflex reaction. Luke didn't learn from Anakin that following visions and trying to prevent them will do more harm than good.
He already had already turned to the Dark Side. And he didn't try to kill him. You can tell from him not being dead. Luke's learned restraint in his old age. Back when he tried to kill his dad, he chopped off a hand.
@@Carabas72 That is not the same. Luke was in a fight to the death with Vader, who threatened to turn Leia over to the dark side knowing it would push Luke over the edge. Luke had every good reason to react the way he did but what he tried to do with Kylo Ren was completely out of character. It's like he's forgotten how he lost his hand in the first place because he assumed his visions of Han and Leia in danger were coming true. Kylo Ren was in bed sleeping and hasn't done anything remotely evil to cause Luke to ignite his lightsaber in front of him so that moment completely destroyed Luke's entire character arc.
@@loudboy317 Luke doesn't have an arc, Vader has an arc. Luke went from thinking his father was dead to still believing there's good in it, and then just sticking to that, with the occasional rage attack. That's not an arc. That's a straight line.
Look how far the Jedi have fallen. They used to be 10,000 Jedi, had a huge-ass, high security and luxurious Temple in the upper levels of the Galactic capital, they used to be friends with politicians, they were Generals and Commanders of the Republic's army, people all over the galaxy knew of them. It was a privilege to be a Jedi Look at them now, reduced to one man now as hermit and legend on an island. And the Jedi have now been ostracized and forgotten.
It was not the Jedi's fault of their fate. The Jedi aren't a omniscient hive mind monolith that could have prevented what happened to them. Palpatine played them and the Galactic Republic and it all hinged on individual behaving the way he predicted. Palpatine played Sifo-Dyas, Dooku, the Republic and as a result the Council that was beholden to the Republic.
Darth sidious was also the one behind their crushing defeat and also ordered the execution of order 66, the clones followed his orders. Obviously, anyone with a brain would see the fact that the blame for the downfall of the Jedi order lies with Sidious, NOT the Jedi order.
The Jedi were beholden to the Senate and the Republic long before Palpatine came to power. They were reduced to being glorified enforcers of a corrupt and failing government centuries, even millennia before Episode I.
