There's one thing you failed to consider with Tobirama's generation. Madara wouldn't play with Tobirama like he does with the Kage in the canon fight. I mean, he might still play with him in a way, but more in the 'make him suffer as much as possible before he dies' way. More than anyone else, Tobirama is the object of Madara's hatred.
Onoki in Hiruzen's era is by no means equivalent to Onoki in Tsunade's era. In the canon fight, Onoki's decades of battle experience was the biggest advantage he brought to the field, even bigger than being a wielder of Dust Release. Madara even noted how much of a problem his 'wisdom in battle' was.
I hereby dub you the versus topic God lmao. This is a super right in your face video idea that no one notable has done at least in the way you set it up nor to the degree of accuracy you have. W video imma go ahead and like it up before even starting because the Kamran Brand guarantees fire.
I will say one thing about Hiruzen. He does know a massive range of sealing jutsu. Wether they are powerful enough to work is another thing. I agree with everything else to that point though, even though there might not be that much of a difference
@@CJ-111after battling orochimaru, the first and second hokages, sealing both hokages, that’s when he struggled. not like he was full strength by then.
@@CJ-111 Because that was Hiruzen in old age, where it was blatantly said that if he'd be younger then the entire thing would have had a different outcome.
I genuinely don't think the whole Tobirama sacrificing himself to use the Tandem Paper Bombs makes sense, quite literally just use a goddamn shadow clone for it like whats up with everyone xD
Tobirama has to stab a hand in his chest to pull the tandem bombs out of his body. If he tried that with a shadow clone it would disappear from the damage before he could use it.
@@KamranCreatesSince Hiruzen mentioned tandem is his specialty it means he likely has edo tensi to summon to the battle field.No sacrifice needed.Plus his clones should be relative or faster than madara if hes alive.So mu can easily be escorted by tobirama’s clone.I’d honestly give them a 5/10 chance just because 2 kage are so mysterious.
I have a question. Why would rasa be considered relative to Gaara from that fight? Even if you take the databook statement into account, gaara dispatched him rather quickly. Not to mention rasa's sand was a clear counter to garras yet he lost so easily.
If we actually look at the context of what happened the answer is a pretty resounding yes. Rasa’s gold dust was the same speed as Gaara’s gourd sand, his fastest and most powerful, and they clashed equally repeatedly, they also both blocked eachother’s sand attacks as well so they are relative in defense. Rasa only lost as quick as he did because the Edo Tensei’s automatic reactions forced him to lift his gold dust to protect Gengetsu and the Third Raikage, leaving him exposed from below. Keep in mind Gaara was in the desert, a huge environmental advantage for him. Had they fought in a neutral battlefield Rasa might’ve dispatched of Gaara quickly, since Gaara starts limited to only what’s in his gourd while we saw Rasa clap his hands and summon a desert sized tsunami of gold. Gaara probably wouldn’t have been able to counter a huge quantity like that with his normally limited supply and would’ve been buried.
@@hobbyhorse5848 also for the "automatic defense" point i actually kinda disagree, I think rasa did that himself. It doesn't help me at all anyways but I don't think it was his automatic defense.
Yagura can easily counter the perfect sussano with his water reflection/mirror. It would literally create one back and give them the edge. The 4th generation of kage wins
In order for Yagura to be able to replicate the Perfect Susanoo the water mirror would have to be as big as a literal mountain which I don’t think is realistic. Plus, there’s also the issue I mentioned in the video about the mirrors still being powered by Yagura’s own chakra, which means they probably aren’t strong enough to make Madara’s Perfect Susanoo.
@KamranCreates There is no indication that there is a size li.it to how big the reflection in the water mirror can get. And it's description makes it clear that it should be able to copy the susanno, just based on its description. It is a literal mirror. Furthermore, Yagura has a tailed beast, which means he very likely can create something that large. Tailed beasts are Chakra monsters. If Choji or his dad, can become mountain sized, while having less Chakra than a tailed beast, then I'm sure Yagura can create something that large also.
Small nitpick, The number of tales does not correlate with the strength of the tailed beast. The only fact that we know is that the nine tails is the strongest and the eight tails is the second strongest. The rest of them are up in the air.
I think Sandaime Kazekage coating Enma with iron sand, and Ōnoki making Enma heavier on the down-swing (as he did with A) would, as a combined offensive, be able to pierce even higher stages of the Susanoo.
Hashirama and Hiruzen know fuinjutsu though. Tobirama probably does too, the man created some crazy jutsu and that 4 kage seal they showcased in the war, chances are that he also has fuinjutsu strong enough to seal an edotensei. Shit, the man created the damn jutsu, so he should have/figure out a way of undoing it.
The 2nd Hokage created Edo Tensi and would hatch a plan to rewrite the tag in his head or use another of the built-in features. His super speed would definitely help him install the new tag.
Hiruzen has sealing he literally died using it or does the reaper death seal not count I mean the man learned every jutsu of the leaf he has sealing jutsu
@@zeyyyboggiee There's nothing that suggests he is far stronger, but this is irrelevant, the point is that he knows he is a FTG user and thus the element of suprise is completely gone and the FTG strategy is less likely.
i think it really goes to show just how much hashirama is above literally everyone in the verse (not including 6 paths characters). Like, Even Minato's generation, who is undoubtedly the third strongest hogake of all time (behind naruto and hashirama), doesn't really stand a chance against hashirama's rival, who by all means was weaker than hashirama even after getting a rinnegan. He is also the same guy who was absolutely dogging madara AND the nine tails at the same time while not even really trying, seeing as he only went to killing as an option after HOURS of fighting against someone who can reverse time. It's actually crazy
Damn, lightened boulder Minato would go hard. Since Edo Madara can casually react to KCM2 Naruto, I don't think Minato would be able to blitz him, but would probably be relative to him and Madara would need to lock in to properly react to that combo.
The last generation would obviously snap Madara in half. Even if we change Naruto to Shikamara, Boruto's scaling is ridiculous, they fought three Ootsutsuki and made a really good impression.
It's been stated, Izuna, Madara and Tobirama were all the same strength... edo madara being nerfed means Tobirama is stronger, plus Tobirama has experience fighting Madara's eternal full bodied susanoo and survived... he'll handle madara
Thing is with Madara, he was cheating hard. He never had that kind of power during his lifetime at the same moment. 1. He was an Edo Tensei. This means infinite chakra and he would heal from any wounds. 2. He was brought back to his physical prime when he died as a feeble old man who needed the Gedo providing life support. 3.He was amped up using Hashirama cells that he stole but only able to master once he was already an old man. 4. Sage Mode, also stolen from Hashirama and only able to use because of said stolen cells. 5. The Rennigan was something he only had by the time he was an old man not ever during his prime.
Yes, Edo Madara had more hax. However, having infinitely regenerating chakra doesn't really make a difference since while alive he was able to fight Hashirama for a whole day if not more. And after reviving himself he said that he got used to fight recklessly because he was an Edo, so if he was alive he would be more careful. But yes, without the Rinnegan he wouldn't be able to absorb ninjutsu, and that would be huge. Madara didn't use Sage Mode while Edo, so this doesn't count. However, in terms of scaling, Edo Madara was actually nerfed. Right after he revived himself, even without eyes, and AFTER absorbing Hashirama's Sage Mode, Hashirama thinks to himself "Madara is regaining his past strength". This goes to show how big his Edo Tensei nerf was. Even with the modifications Kabuto made, he was much weaker than in his prime. EMS Madara from the Valley of the End would scale a little above Revived Sage Madara with no eyes. This makes sense because, even though he lost, Edo Madara was relative enough to Sage Edo Hashirama to fight him for a while. Their fight lasted between the arrival of Juubito until his defeat. And we know EMS Madara was essentialy equal to an alive Sage Hashirama. Also, the EMS Sasuke who fought alonside Biju Sage Mode Naruto, who was able to adapt to Juubito's speed was still being regarded as having the potential to surpass Madara, and Naruto himself has being compared to Hashirama by Tobirama. EMS Madara and alive Hashirama were in a league of their own... So if you replace Edo Madara with alive EMS Madara in these scenarios, even though he wouldn't have the Rinnegan nor Hashirama cells, he would scale even higher and arguably perform much better due to that. Tobirama, Prime Hiruzen or even Minato wouldn't be able to compete with that version of Madara, and the other Kage would be complete fodder.
As the person above already stated, Edo Madara is faaar weaker than Alive Madara, you got to keep in mind that Madara only had a small portion of Hashirama’s power and his sage mode wasn’t that impressive to Madara he even state in disappointment “is that it?” When he absorbed it. His main source of power is his eyes so without them he’s arguably 50% weaker or more . And if you remember that alive Madara before even gaining SM didn’t even need to destroy Hashirama’s deity gates, the blast from his sheer power returning was enough to destroy it.
Madara didn't need hashirama cells he needed the yin chakra from Ashura's reincarnation to activate the renegun of which the sage of six paths denied Indra and all his descendants if you come to think of it the whole Uchiha clan never fought the senju at full strength and yet they were able to keep up with the senju for generations until hashirama decided it was time for peace
Hokage Minato can attack simultaneously while teleportating. Madara wouldn't be able to counter Minato once he gets marked with FTG. Making it a guaranteed win against Madara.
Problem is the RU-vidr forgot Madara knows everything about Minato because if black zetsu.Honestly excluding Hashirama’s generation Tobirama’s has the best shot due to them both having speed and power to keep up.
Don't the Deity Gates get stronger to match their target though? When Tobirama blew them up in the war they weren't being used to restrain anything, doesn't this mean that they were in their weakest forrm and therefore wouldn't scale to the durability they had while holding down the Ten Tails or Edo Madara before he got revived?
Madara was also significantly more powerful than he was when he was alive, and heavily modified. He knew Jutsu he didn't in life. He had power boosts he didn't in life. He had unlimited chakra. He had the Rinnegan. The Had access to Sage Chakra. He had access the Wood Style. He was fundamentally immortal. If a living Madara was fighting in most of these scenarios, he would do damage sure, but he would die in most of them.
It’s stated by Chiyo that the Third Kazekage was assassinated by Sasori a decade ago in Naruto Shippuden. At this point in the series, we know that Minato had also died 15 years ago because Naruto was 15 years old. So, the Third Kazekage actually outlived Minato by 5 years which means that Rasa didn’t take over until after his death!
@@grandcanyon-d4d he wasn’t necessarily stronger. Perfect susanoo and tail beasts are relative. Kurama got hard countered by Madaras genjustu. Kcm minato wouldn’t have this issue.
@@bennorris7126 Madara said his perfect susanoo rivals all the tailed beasts, Minato doesn't have this much power, and Kurama feared Madara, it's not just genjutsu.
@@bennorris7126 Madara controlled Kurama with basic Sharingan, by that logic, let's take Minato's flying raijin we take Madara's Susanoo! Also explain how Minato is stronger than Kurama who's boosting him? Minato couldn't even handle half of Kurama, the only one more powerful than Madara even when they were alive was Hashirama.
Madara beats each generation including boruto kage... mind you the kage barley put up a fight against kinshiki and fused momoshiki. madara would beat kinshiki and jubbidara beats fused momoshiki imo
Broooo it’s no debate. I was shocked to see the ass pulling to give madara a chance to win against Minato era of Kage. Honestly 8-9 out of 10 times they winning.
Bro i’d honestly give them 2/10 chances.Madara already has intel on them from black zetsu.So their only win con is Minato trying to FTG onoki to get a partical style win.
30:03 Yes IT HAVE, he is too Slow, to Minato minato im Base is has fast has Naruto at the second Level Kyubi mode, now this + Flying Raijin LV1 and LV2, IS IMPOSSIBLE to Madara to do Anything about it
Unlike Minato, Hiruzen needs to physically grab his target in order to initiate the Reaper Death Seal meaning if the Susanoo is up he’s completely screwed. I definitely should have brought that up in the video though. Good catch!
Madara defeated by plot armor man Madara could have pulled up the izanagi any time to win against hasirama the rest don't stand a chance but if he had killed hasirama who was he going to fight we know the Ghost of the Uchiha enjoyed though battles and hated weak fights and only madara could fight hasirama and hasirama was the only one that could fight madara
It’s stated by Chiyo that the Third Kazekage was assassinated by Sasori a decade ago in Naruto Shippuden. At this point in the series, Naruto was 15 which means that Minato had also died 15 years ago. Because of this, we know that the Third Kazekage actually outlived Minato which means that Rasa didn’t take over until after his death! (My bad for Rasa being in the thumbnail though I completely forgot about this while making it lol)
Do people forget that Madara and Hashirama are very relative in power? Like the 9 tails wasn’t adding much to their fight, and their real fight began after it was removed from the battlefield, and you can see a fully healthy Madara goes against a fully healthy SM Hashirama then both of the were pretty exhausted at the end, Hashirama didn’t have any chakra to heal his burned arm and he collapsed immediately after taking out Madara
I agree they are very relative in general but I don’t think Madara has a counter to Hashirama’s Thousand Armed Buddha Statue without the Majestic Attire Susanoo. Also, Edo Madara is just stated to be weaker than his alive self so I actually don’t think the fight would be as close as it was in the Final Valley.
