Tesla owner here. Tried Greenstation at Straume. Registered the car in app. Drive to entrance. Camera reads licenceplate and leads you to correct stall. If queue it assigns you spot in line. Super easy, rivals Tesla because of queue-system. If you try station again, recommend filming from entering area. My experience was 👍
Keep it simple principle should be used. I.e.: add your card to the app once . Plug and play , tesla style. No screens or readers in the chargers needed
I have used the green station in Bergen before. The cameras register you when you drive in and tell you which space you should stand in. And you can thus simply insert the charger and charging starts.
Spotmarket based pricing should be required for every charger. Not only is it good for the bank account if you charge more during the times with a lot of renewables (and so cheap energy), but it's also good for the electricity network as the load distribution over the day is more equal due to cheaper prices with less load and vice versa. I mean that's exactly how gas stations work too nowadays, why not do it with electricity as well? Especially since you have the prices up to 35 hours in advance already. And it's really nice for credit card payment as everyone then would pay the same price, no hassling around with using thousands of apps to get the cheapest rate at a certain network.
Doesn't this lend itself to fraud? In central London there's a charging system in place which is based on number plate recognition, and there have been several cases where people have cloned number plates belonging to other cars.
I don't know. There's a similar system in some gas stations here in Spain and an additional pin is required. Maybe these chargers would require you to confirm the charge on the app if you use the license plate login mode. Anyway, the kind of problems you can get into by cloning a license plate are in other league for the cost of a toll, gas refuel or electricity charge.
@@RobcomesanaPutting in additional security steps makes the whole thing moot because the point is to make it quick and simple, not convoluted and difficult. People aren't going to drive around with cloned plates. They'll only need them as long as it takes to initiate the charge. All they need is a little clip to hang it over the real plate for a short time. Of course, the cameras can also record the car and the driver too, but there are ways to minimise that risk as well. Using number plates is a fundamentally insecure and stupid way to do this.
They likely do some magic in the background to check the location of the app on a phone and then decide if they want to require a second method of verification. This is what similar implementations I've seen do. Also, using fake license plates is highly illegal, more so than simply stealing some electricity. So high risk, low reward kind of thing.
@@asaha7547"Doesn't" and "can't" are two completely different things. It's part of the charging protocol and there's no excuse for lack of support. And just so we're clear, it's purely a software thing so it's definitely NOT true that MEBs can't.
I think it's really cool but also very complex, expensive and likely going to lead to lower reliability. I can understand standardizing a credit card payment system but Tesla's system has proven itself. 6 seconds after plugging in, it's charging and I have all the info I need on the car's screen and I don't have to touch my phone or take out my wallet. I like the simplicity of Tesla's system best.
How often do the payment system fail? There has been card readers at gas stations as long as I can remember, can't say I've had reliability problems with those.
Card payment is already the norm at rapids in the UK except for Ionity (who are now using it on new builds) and obviously Tesla. It's a good alternative to RFID. I think it's a positive change. Many people will want to keep RFID cards too either as a backup or to get preferential rates. UK are also legislating similarly. The draft law here includes all new chargers >8kw. Existing rapids (>50kw) all have to be backfitted. Existing rapids also have to sign up to roaming so you have both options (at the moment many in the UK are contactless payment only). And provide public live data, and meet a reliability target. Tesla have a get out clause in UK if they keep a site private for Teslas, but if they want to open up to all, they have to comply. I read a v4 SuC was shown at Goodwood this week with a card reader on it.
Card payment is a downgrade - not an upgrade. Card payment has had to be introduced for those who are not digital. The whole of Norway is digitized and we have payment solutions through the phone that only take a second to complete and you get the receipt in the app. We do not use money - even on the smallest sums. All transfers are free and we also no longer have what used to be a bank - they have closed down. I don't use Card payment in the grocery store either - just scan in - get today's offer on the phone and weigh and read the codes on the way out - and confirm the transfer with the phone.
I don't like the big screens and the camera, it should be enough with the screen on the Kempower charger. Maybe Kempower could offer an integrated camera also to recognize the license plate. I don't find the license recognizing very important, though - using my card is as fast as using RFID without needing to register RFID with the charging provider. Also faster than using Tesla app for non-Tesla cars.
Here in Canada our card readers are so unreliable, I hope that is not the case in Norway. I have had to call the charging station help desk numerous times to initiate a charge with a broken card reader and no app connectivity.
I don’t see the point in the camera license plate reader. Why not authenticate when you plug in, I believe there’s an industry standard and it just needs to be implemented.
Maybe personalized advertisements on the screen. You will remember the advertised product on big screen when you consentrate starting charging. It needs to show the add only for couple of seconds.
@@AliusScitmelius I can see the ads generating revenue. For cars driving front in, they could watch it for 20 min or so. I have to back in and wouldn’t see it. It looks like a big investment and some maintenance, not sure ads could pay for it.
Hopefully they work in the winter and will be clear in heavy snow drifts, kind of wish the payment pad was higher. Otherwise seems like a really good idea with the price on the app and displaying it when you drive in like a lot of the fueling price tracker apps have now. They really do need this in the USA if they want to even remotely be able to compete with Tesla superchargers.
The worst thing about EV public charging is requiring a phone app for ANYTHING…. The gas/petrol-buying public would never put up with that …. Must be either seamless plug-and-charge or credit-card charge … Third option should be to pay an on-site attendant …
I like the car recognition and queuing system, while the clear cost display is brilliant and much appreciated. The credit card reader is ultimately not necessary though and just adds cost and complexity. Rather, we should aim for universal Plug&Charge just like with Tesla, but for every charger (including AC) and every car.
They can make money from using the screens for advertisements. I love the fact that they look completely accessible for wheelchair users. Plenty of room to manoeuvre around the car bump stops present but not in the way and supported cable weight. Brilliant... can someone please pass a law in the uk for this to be how all chargers must be?! Good to see the price dislayed too. 👍
I visited Mer's Kempower charger in Kristiansand, Norway. There seemed to be a system where you can teach the charger to recognize the car electronically from the charging connection. The teaching needed to be done once. That worked well without extra cameras for lisence plate recognition. So it worked like Superchargers for Teslas. The only negative point was that the price was double compared to Superchargers, at least for me. I do not know if there is some kind of different pricing for Norwegians.
There are similar rules in the eu to make a card terminal mandatory that will be enforced soon. Often the hardware is already there. At work In the street a public charger was installed. It reads charge passes and rfid payment cards. In a pinch that can be helpful. Charge-Tag in another car and your phone has an issue. Dropped, deep discharge or even lost. But with chargers at a pump, cash would be handy too.
I like the direction it's going. They can refine the concepts later. I like the sign posted that shows the price. Basic and to the point. How do they contract to deliver energy to you when the spot price goes up while you're charging? That would seem to be a problem. There needs to be a way to set commitment levels: this is the price range I accept, etc. Since people are paying with card, that needs to be configurable in the charge portal without a phone. The license plate reader could also require a credit card or app for payment, thus creating the security factor. But then why have the license plate reader? Maybe just to make the handshaking faster? Maybe the app does a pop up on the phone and you have to give your fingerprint to make it work?
Brillant! I know that in germany, new public chargers have to have card readers, too. @Aldi near my home, it's even cheaper to charge with credit card / ec card (0.39€ / kWh) than most of the roaming partners which work on the same chargers, too. On Ionity and Aral Pulse they charge an insane amount for paying wiht CC - but I miss the price for charging, too - it's never displayed when you are charging, usually you can only see after you've been invoiced - so CC / EC terminals are cool, but due to the fact that there are so many prices depending on the app / card you're using ... how can a charger display the correct price? I think the EC / CC payment should be regulated not to be higher than a certain amount to not allow rip offs.
Actually, is it used for identification of the payment? It might only show license plate number and welcome message on the screen - the payment could be done with CCS Plug and charge. Should be tested more and I agree that it is strange identification for payment.
I was just stuck at OK charger in Denmark. App is needed -> Install app. Available payment methods: - MobilePay - ApplePay - OKcard - Dancard. Those danish local cards I do not have as a foreigner. The MobilePay required a Danish MobilePay, something that is not available to non-danes. The applepay also failed due to similar reason presumably. Android was no better. Luckily a local ev driver dropped by and felt the frustration, he installed the app on his phone and nicely helped by starting the charge. :)
Every high power charging stations should be required to put up a sign with the current drop in charging price lik petrol stations does. This will make the competition better.
I suspect the plug and charge maybe didn't work because you were already by the cameras and the software didn't know what you were doing so maybe it chose instead to ignore you.
Government in Germany had announced the necessity of card payment terminals on new charges back in October of 2021. It was supposed to start this year but for some reason was delayed to 2024.
Probably was a larger task than expected to make sure, that the stalls could support a large number of debit/credit card providers. There are probably more than just VISA and MasterCard offering payment solutions.
I do not know if the electricity price should have been more expensive than NOK. 4.66 - even if they must have money to reinvest in new facilities. IN JULY, ELECTRICITY TO PRIVATE IN NORWAY HAS ACTUALLY BEEN FREE - AS WE HAVE A SURPLUS ON ELECTRICITY. Privately, I have per 15 july an electricity bill in the apartment of $7 or 6 Euros. Right now you get money for using energy - so the bill from the electricity supplier drops. Today's price is NOK -0.075 per KWH
Elbilforeningen never fronted card payment but it was requirements from EU. Elbilforeningen did not support this until after "it was no way back". Now they just claim it was their idea, which is completely wrong. Elbilforeningen just wanted to sell their own NFC solution to gain membership.
Clearly the big screens are overkill. They could integrate the whole system more seamlessly and cheaper, for sure. The important thing is to solve the issues and maybe allow for some manual override, in case the camera fails or something.. But in the future, car manufacturers should implement a common protocol for handshake data exchange, that would apply to any EV and so any charger could identify the car and automatically link it to a payment account. But really, for now, I think most people won't mind touching the card/phone on the charger to tap and pay, as long as there is no increased price compared to the app or rfid users. And even if there is a slight reduction in price for registered users, I want to be able to pay easily as a "visiting customer", rather than having to register and account and set all the payment data inside an app just to charge this one time. To me, it's mind boggling we got to this point, without more strict regulations on charging infrastructure.
Go minimalist and low cost or go home. As a customer I don't want to pay a higher margin to have cameras and big screens at the chargestation. If I have to exit the car to plug in the cable anyways I might as well tap the RFID for 2 seconds.
Aesthetically they look pleasing to the eye. Have to see longevity and when facing the elements for a few seasons. how those electronics wil holdup at sustained +35C?; what about -35C ?; with snow melting, rains, and humidity... how those electronics will hold up ? .... tecnology for EV is supposed to be *green* not just in 'color', but sustainable use of materials... time will tell
There's no reason it can't work just like Tesla and have the car identify itself over the communication lines when you plug in. Most cars and DC chargers have the capability (it is part of the protocol standard, after all), but for some stupid reason the charging networks are choosing not to implement it. That would require zero extra hardware and couldn't be fooled by counterfeiting number plates... 🤔
There are technical reasons why it can't be implemented yet. Tesla use their own version of Autocharge, which uses the MAC address to identify the car. There are a number of problems with mass adoption. Mainly lack of security (easy to spoof the MAC address) and there are lots of cars that never got built with a unique MAC address e.g. VW. The better, newer standard Plug and Charge uses certificates for authentication, so is secure. However manufacturers are only just incorporating it into their cars. It would of course not work with Tesla because they are too entrenched in their own system.
How will Tesla accomodate this new requirement in Norway? Does the new law apply to AC charging stations as well? It seems like a big increase in cost for charging network providers. Unless they install one card reader for 10-20 charge points, the monthly fees are going to kill them.
Sorry, the actual cost for this is nothing like you think. It's a drop in the bucket compared to everything else. Pretty much every fuel pump in the USA has a card reader, and even individuals can get cheap credit card readers. License plate recognition is mature and also cheap. They don't need to access DMV records, only tie a registration number to your account. That big video screen is by far the most expensive part of this particular setup, and they probably got a cheap bulk deal on those as well.
4.6 norway krones per kw is a daylight robbery. It works out more economic to use fossils rather than ev with these prices. Only makes sense to charge at home, if you have to use public chargers you can forget about any savings, get a diesel vehicle
Fastned uses the handshake procedure for AutoCharge (just plugin and it starts charging). However this doesn't work for the ID.3 as the ID.3 doesn't have an unique handshake number. E.g. other MEB cars can have the same number. So this way with licence plate makes sense as it should work always. When it works. 😂
@@awo1fman haha they have been telling that lie for over almost 3 years. Now. When I drove the ID.3 for 1,5 years VW promised a new update every Q. So should have received at least 6. How much did I received? Just 2. Now driving a Polestar 2, in 6 months already 3 updates. Now that makes more sense.
I don't really understand why card payment should be mandatory. In Norway toll and ferries are paid through license plate identification and also card payment through smartphone should be fine for the majority of users. So making card payment mandatory means also increasing costs (installation, maintenance, additional operator probably needed). I think it should be sufficient to have maybe 5 out of 10 stalls with card payment readers as an additional option. But making it mandatory for all new charging stalls seems a little bit overkill and unnecessarily expensive. And most EV owners have probably special EV charging cards or plug-and-charge contracts with manufacturers already. Especially in the future I would expect that new cars will allow plug-and-charge like Tesla which will make card payments pretty inconvenient. So card readers seem to me almost outdated already today!
The main reason is to keep charging infrastructure access open to all potential customers, not only those who have signed up with charging provider Xyz, registered a car and installed their app. I find that intention very logical. There are a lot of gas stations which operate with self-service creditcard machines, and also have optional registration for convenience and service.
@@IceAce1 I understand some demand, sure, but I don't understand that it has to be mandatory for every single charging station. I assume that the amount of users without signed up contracts is pretty low, maybe 10%, especially for the reason, that signed-up contract typically offer significantly cheaper prices. So making e.g. 50% of new stalls per location mandatory for card payment should be sufficient! And with same logic why not making it mandatory that 100% of new stalls should offer 300kW for potential customers? Why? Because it is overkill, not everyone needs is, so investment would be unnecessarily expensive. And card payment is for me the same reason: card payment makes sense, but I don't see the need that every single station needs to have it. Today you also filter the charging stations for the charging plug type, for the charging speed, for the prices and for the signed up contracts. So card payment should be an additional option, but why mandatory for every single charging stall? Normally markets (in general) should be self-regulating and not be driven by politics. If there would be a lot of demand for such a solution then operators would offer this voluntarily. If there is obviously not enough demand then why making it unnecessarily expensive for everyone else. As Bjorn said, the investment has to be paid off over time, meaning every customer will pay its share even though only a small percentage of customers would use this option. And as I wrote, I assume plug-and-share will soon replace less convenient solutions, especially also for the reason that signed up contracts offer significantly cheaper prices.
In Sweden the OKQ8 chargers have card payment with no difference in pricing. I prefer those over having to find the right app, hope my registration works, hope Internet works, hope the app and station will cooperate..
Not having readers on every charge bay is no better than not having them at all. Invariably, if there's only one bay without a reader, that's the only one that will be open when you are travelling and don't want to sign up for yet another network account for a single use. Or your phone dies or is lost/stolen or doesn't have service. It's either all or nothing. There's a saying about half-measures... 🤔 But Plug And Charge is definitely the way to go for networks you frequent. You still have to sign up, but then it will work even if you don't have a phone and your wallet is stolen.
But it's not only norwegians that use the chargers this days. And if you have systems like someone here met in Danmark, were he needed a danish app, connected to a danish bankaccount. Then you have a problem as a tourist, if you can not charge your car. It's not any different than any normal gasstation, were you also use your card to pay with.
Is there anyone that use the expensive Cirkle K chargers when this alternative is much cheaper? I will road trip in Norway in 1-2 weeks depending on the weather, will be interesting to see how the charging infrastructure works compared with Sweden.
Is the Plug & Charge only based on license plate? Why not VIN number or other data that can be received via the CSS ports? Saves on camera's, screens and a lot of IT guys and girls (not complaining about work for myself ;-) ). But what i'm more worried about, what if I print a registered license plate from a plate generator.. Will the system recognize that it is not the car or not a real license plate?
I love my ev..but the multitude of convoluted charging apps and general cluster feck with everything related to charging is the worst where i live, Norway looks far better in many respects but still far from perfect. Pay at the pump is old tech in many applications other than ev charging for some reason..not to mention data harvesting from apps and rfid cards.
Nice big gorgeous charging lots with spy cam and commercials, why not! This is absolut next gen level. Oh. Where are the trash cans and screen washer pots with wipers?! Nein nein nein! 🤦♂️Why? Why not?! Ok, and the missing roof.. sh****** **** ***t
@@trondharaldsaltnes5122a Tesla account can be made up on the app in under 2 minutes and is so much more convenient,in all honesty what are you doing driving an electric vehicle when you don’t have a smart phone?haters will hate 🤷♂️.
Tesla can be cheaper because locations are already paied for through purchase of cars. As long as every use pays a little more than that specific energybill and a little vare and tare, they make money. I'd rather have more locations than those fancy screens and camera. I understand the cameras will desperately try to mimic the awesome Tesla SC experience, but..... Visible price as with fossil? Well.. I guess they kind of should, but again, I'd rather have more locations or more stalls than that info. Unlike a fossil, your EV's daily "fuel" should be delivered at home/work.. I choose chargepoints from convenience over price, i.e. gas station with WC and food over much lover price charger with nothing around. Before card-payment, I'd love for every operator to work in all apps, what Elton is trying to do.. Card-payment is great, BUT only as long as the non-member price addition is just a fraction, just like fossil fuel.. As it's been so far non-member SMS payment has been around twice the price..
What about cash? I can use cash to pay for diesel or petrol almost everywhere. After all the data leaks I don't feel comfortable giving up my card information. Why can't it be like a gas station, where I have the choice of using both cash and a card?
@@robertsarkezi2080 how is it complicated? You could easily make chargers that just accept coins, we had things like this since forever and it doesnt need aps, internet acces, scamers can't steal your info/credit card information, goverment doesnt breathe down on your neck spaying on you, and the machine is cheaper to make and people should be using cash more to delay complete cash removal that will force everyone to use digital cash everywhere.... because the WEF will tie digital cash with carbon footprint and social score system, and i assure you that you dont want to live in a dystopia like this, it will give these people to much power and they will be able to do with you what they want with 0 people rioting
Such exposed card payment is BAD. just you wait for scammers to install phising devices, you will cry with how much they will steal. These are not a good idea, and your government should be sued by any scam victims that have their cards info stolen.
This charge station is stupid and way too expensive in construction. 6 big screens and a nonfunctional camera system. For that extra cost they could have build another station!
Card readers will make the station unusable once they brake and they will brake. Stupid European bureaucracy laws. I hope Tesla will continue to build superchargers without these points of breakage
What a weired argument. If something breaks, it needs to get fixed. That's the case for every single part of a charging station, not only the card reader.
less is more in operation. This adds way to much to the overhead (ranges from vandalism, wear and tear, and just disfunction of the software not working). Simplicity eliminates all this - just tap / pay / magnetic reader + app / Plug and Charge. They can have a little e-reader/lcd screen that can display payment acceptance and price. This reader mandate just seems so old school that in 20 years time my kids generation are going to be like why the hell did we waste so much money on this crap.
Nein nein nein. The card companies gets a lot of profits from the card payment fees the provider must pay to them. This law supports THE BIG ONES. Sad sad sad. This is no development, this is a step back. 🤦♂️
Var der for 2 dager siden , klarte ikke å lade min enyaq fikk feilmelding ( kan ikke starte lading , vennligst koble fra laderen og prøv igjen) ga opp etter 4 forsøk , aldri sånne problemer hos tesla Supercharger.
You might have to hold the charge plug during handshake. The Kempower plugs and cables are very heavy since they are not water cooled. Tesla supercharger, especially v3, are much thinner and will therefore not cause handshake problems.
