Marvel Doesn't Understand How the Multiverse Works 

Forever the funniest misunderstanding on one of my videos will be people thinking I hate Spider-Verse because I was trying to throw shade at Morbius. The joke fell flat because I was showing clips of Morbius and failed to take into account that nobody’s seen that movie.

I’m so glad someone finally acknowledged that alternate timelines are not the same as alt universes 😂

My personal belief is that they shouldn’t have stepped into the multiverse, or at the VERY LEAST, not yet

I think marvel will have an even bigger problem in the phases after whenever this multiverse thing concludes. Nobody can die for good now. There's also so many potential plot holes that's going to come out of implementing the multiverse. Endgames time travel unfortunately ruined marvel for me.

For me the problem is less in the details and more about the simple lack of cohesion. We've now had three major multiverse stories in MCU, at about the same time, and they're all basically unrelated. It felt like Loki laid the groundwork for future multiverse events and was then immediately forgotten.

Another tangent, in MoM, the 838 universe has ULTRON bots, so we have to assume that the Ultron project succeded in that universe without ultron going evil mode. Thus the Vision body should be inhabited by Ultron and Vision should not even exist in that universe. So the big question is if those children are not created by magic, WHO SHAGGED WANDA?????

The best multiverse movie that came out this year was Everything Everywhere All At Once. Not only did it do justice to what the absolute chaos of such a concept would entail, but also simultaneously wove a truly heartfelt story, which somehow managed to make me choke up with emotion all the while laughing my arse off.

I like how Marvel employs real scientists to make their the bullshit somewhat believable and still disregard their input in the final product.

I just realized, in Avengers: Infinity War, Dr. Strange literally says he studied 14,000,605 alternate timelines to see which one would be the best choice for victory. How did he see 14,000,605 timelines if only one existed when the Loki series began? Edit: The replies to this comment clearly didn't watch the actual video, because according to Marvel, timelines and universes are the exact same thing. I'm going based on *their* logic, and showing how it's fucking stupid.

I have always said that "WandaVision" would have been the perfect place to re-introduce Mordo, as his whole thing was "Too Many Sorcerers", and Wanda was misusing her powers.

You mention "going of the rules of Loki, all peters should look the same" but all the Loki's have greater differences than the peters.

Marvel’s failure is why I consider Everything, Everywhere, All at Once my favorite movie. It’s because it goes far more about the many worlds theory in its actual interpretation and does reference that quantum physics is mathematical.

I was so sad Everything Everywhere All At Once went so unnoticed. I vaguely recall maybe seeing a trailer for it while it was in theaters, but then it left my mind and I heard absolutely nothing of it again until after its theater run was over and so many people were praising it. I gotta see it!

Small notes: Your “Three Peter” problem doesn’t contradict Loki. Loki establishes incredibly early on that variants don’t have to look the same. I mean in like episode 2 we find out that Sylvie is a female Loki. Then near the end we meet a variety of Lokis, one of which is an alligator. Secondly, it’s not ever implied that multiverses are created upon decisions. In common media, new timelines are created for every possible decision, but the MCU never implies that about itself. Lastly, with Loki and the disaster thing, I actually see the timelines as each being similar enough but having a safety tarp around them. So the “single” timeline was actually trillions of timelines flowing together because they were “similar enough”. Small variants can happen in each timeline, like Loki being born a girl or an alligator, but it’s only once those changes become significant enough for the timeline to Pierce through the safety tarp does it become a danger to the TVA. So Loki in Pompeii is changing the timeline, but that change is so insignificant due to the disaster that it doesn’t pierce the safety tarp and all the timelines continue flowing together. But this isn’t to say I disagree with your central thesis. The multiverse is a mess right now and I really hope that the rules become better defined. And I do think most of those problems boil down to endgames depictions of time travel, which is frustrating since endgame is the first show to depict it.

The “3 peters” issue isn’t really a problem. Peter’s father would’ve had different sperm at the times the Peter’s were conceived, because they were born at different times. But they were raised the same, so they would have very similar personalities and the same name despite being genetically different.

The way Agents of SHIELD handled time travel and timelines was so much better! It almost made sense!

You’re not nit-picking at all. One of the things I have always admired about marvel is their ability to make all of their movies connect some way some how. They dropped the ball in phase 4.

It has had a lot of flaws that I was willing to overlook UNTIL they decided that this was the 616 only because I think that should be reserved for the comics, the only "true" universe. Now this means that the comics and films can never reference each other in absolutely any sort of way.

I think there is a perfect explanation of Wanda’s children existing in other realities. In the Hex, she created the life of her dreams and we learned that dreams are visions from other universes. We even see Wanda waking up from a dream with her kids in the movie.

Loved the breakdown. Alternative hypothesis: the unreliable exposition. Because exposition comes from a particular character's understanding, that character may simply be mistaken, or even have no ability to understand a multiverse that does not have consistent physics. The paint world comes to mind. In this context a character in a particular universe simply lacks access to the alternate physics of alternate worlds, and cannot give an accurate account during exposition.

Agreed. Infinity War and Endgame perfectly paved the way to a Mutant introduction. They served the silver platter to themselves and didnt take it. Instead went multiverse and cosmic threat. Shouldve been a phase 7 idea. Mutants now

One thing I’d like to point out is that when the timeline was freed, an infinite number of branch timelines were formed. So universe’s branched far enough from the main timeline can be significantly different, explaining why Three variants of Spider-Man can look completely different.

When I watched Loki for the first time I was confused to no end. The whole idea of there being a "universe outside of a universe outside a universe" ON TOP of alternate realities was like, "ok, do they even know what's going on??" Loki being in the TVA and seeing how extremely insignificant he was there hit pretty hard with me and millions of others but the fact that there's so many questions that remain un answered for us to just "figure out" is extremely frustrating. Star wars has way lore than Marvel but they manage to keep everything "inter-galactic" which makes it simple to understand. There's no "alternative universe."

“Please verify this is everything you’ve ever said.” That’s just the funniest line ever.

Let’s also acknowledge the fact that Loki stealing the Tesseract in Endgame was not supposed to happen, but all that time traveling the Avengers did was, despite the fact that Cap and Tony traveling back to 1970 to try and get the Tesseract again happened BECAUSE Loki stole the Tesseract in the first place. What the hell is this writing?

15:53 “They prioritize fanfare over consistency and writing” This is a pretty good summary of Disney’s handling of both Star Wars and Marvel.

Man, regardless of how much I love something, if it has time travel, I go into hyper critical mode. If writing a story with time travel, I recommend learning a few specifically things: 1.) The difference between timeline, universe, and dimension. 2.) How alternate timelines should theoretically work. 3.) What the butterfly effect is. 4.) What a paradox is.

I think the simplest way to reconcile all the multi-meta-madness of the Loki-verse is to take a skeptical view of the TVA's self-aggrandizing propaganda. Compared to the godlike role they portray for themselves, omnisciently pruning all variant multiverses which threaten the integrity of the so-called "Sacred Timeline", the actual scope of the TVA's activities appears rather parochial. They mainly seem to focus on variants who might pose a threat to the ascendancy of He Who Remains, the uber-most variant of Kang the Conquerer. It makes sense that a being of such grandiose self-esteem would feel deeply threatened only by variants of himself, and take action to pre-emptively snuff out any potential competitors' chances. Given the power to kidnap variants from any number of timelines and brainwash them into unquestioning servitude within the TVA, it would be totally in character for Kang to portray their work as a transcendent guardianship of the one true timeline. This would shield Kang's minions from the sordid realization of their mercenary role in maintaining his unchallenged dominion over his own uniquely universal scope, straddling innumerable timelines by the virtue of his unconstrained ego. In short, the TVA's claim to multiversal omnipotence is a megalomaniacal delusion cast by He Who Remains upon his own pathetic minions.

In Loki they're pretty clear that anomolies are only stopped when the changes measure past a certain level. So the hiding in disasters makes sense cause nothing they do will significantly alter anything.

My only problem with this vid is that the 3 different peters definitely act within the set rules of the multiverse including that of Loki, near the end of Loki there's a bunch of different looking variants, one of which is a damn alligator. So spidermen of other universes looking different still makes sense. But other than that this is an incredibly made video and I can tell how much effort you put into it

The biggest problem is that we have almost no guidelines over how things actually work. Lokis powers were pretty consistent until the series Loki came out, with him basically only having illusion magic and being as durable as a god. In the series, he stops a building from falling with some magic. That came out of nowhere. We have basically no idea what the Scarlet Witch can do, which makes it kinda pointless, because they become a big plot device, helping when the writers want while not helping when they aren't wanted. Same with the multiverse. We have no idea what the difference between a timeline and a universe is, much less what causes them to split. How many of them are there? Are there any principles that stay constant in all of them? Is there something that happens in none of them? Are there some that are unreacheable from others? We literally have no idea how any of it works, which is the worst thing you can do. Cpt Marvels powers are overtuned and vague, Time Travelling didn't make any sense, the Quantum Scale is well enough defined for now, but if it shows up for another movie, we need to learn what's possible and not way before they use the things possible to further the plot in convenient ways. Agathas Witch Powers need to be put into context regarding power level and uses. Moon Knight needs a lot of catching up to fit into the MCU, and Eternals left a lot of questions unexplained, especially in regard to Thanos. It has basically become an unending flood of questions with every new release, and if they want to get ma back to viewing their movies at all, they need a lot of solid answers for the things they keep working with

Phases 1-3 gave backstories to all their characters. This girl was in like 50% of the scenes and all I know is that she has magical powers and shes looking for her parents.

My only issue with the multiverse in the MCU is that it was introduced a little too fast and a little too early I didn’t expect the multiverse to be introduced until like Phase 5 but on the bright side I no longer have to wait another 10 years for Secret Wars it’s possible with the multiverse being introduced this early we might get Secret Wars in the next 4 to 5 years hopefully

I never got the impression that the Infinity Stones are what anchor the timeline. The Ancient One simply used them as an example because that’s what Bruce was there for. If you notice, she removed the Time Stone from her representation of time, as well, which is pertinent because we knew that Strange would need it to defeat Dormammu.

Being willing to acknowledge the flows in something even when you like it. That is a very mature trait that to many people lack, respect

“Let me cut right to the chase“ *does not cut to the chase

Marvel Studios’ writers are quickly digging themselves into the same hole that comic writers have for decades, and the reason the barrier for entry to new readers is seemingly high: multiple writers who can’t be bothered to read their contemporaries’ stories end up contradicting one another, and the universe becomes inherently complicated if not broken as a result. If Marvel Studios wants to continue their franchise being accessible, they’d do well to establish a concrete set of rules on how their multiverse works going forward, and ensuring all their writers are on the same page. The first 3 phases worked because they had a sense of cohesion, and there weren’t bogged down by continuity errors. Phase 4 is barreling toward problematic continuity at a breakneck speed, and though they’re a company producing films based on comic books, they can’t let themselves fall victim to the problems that have bogged down comic books for decades.

They could have easily made it so different actors indicate a different universe entirely while the same actors indicate a different timeline But alas

My theory is that the “scared timeline” is the entirety of the multiverse just every universe is the same. When sylvie kills “he who remains” that’s when each universe begins to deviate and it’s not just the sacred timeline it’s a full on multiverse Disregarding all the plot holes I chose to believe this. but I’m still confused on how they deviate when sylvie kills “ he who remains” but maybe paradox or loop?

Thoughts: 1 Kang was keeping 616 in quarantine, the other timelines/universes exist, he's just keeping any splits within his quarantine zone to stop himself from popping up. 2 the multiverse before Loki was extremely different universes because the similar ones were either being pruned to prevent their existence or locked beyond his quarantine zone. I guess alternate timelines from before 'time' at the dawn of creation brought about the likes of the Dark Dimension. Once he dies the timelines split off from all times, so similar universes started becoming accessible. 3 America has no other versions because, she just has no other versions, it's her thing. either none of her choices are capable of splitting in her timeline, or the other options cause her to pop out of existence in other timelines. 4 Wanda was far, FAR, from the hero at the end of WandaVision. She tortured a town for weeks(?) then her reparations was to, what, leave? 5 No reason her kids from other universes had to be hex creations, clearly she 'dreamed them up' from her dreams of other Wanda's families, who might not have even been with Vision. 838 Wanda probably created her kids the usual way. 6 Old man cap might have used the Pym particles to travel back. Or maybe he even met with the TVA. 7 Yeah, it's a damn mess.

While I understand it is highly unlikely I can kind of wrap my brain around the 3 Peter's thing. Different timelines can be vastly different or very small in terms of changes. Thus I would argue that perhaps the reason that it's different Peter's is because in these timelines events happened that caused Richard and Mary Parker to be born earlier, meet earlier and bang earlier. Thus different spots in time mean different sperm and different ages, thus still Peter Parker, but they look different. You could argue that for any actor in the multiverse that looks different. I know I'm pulling that out of my ass but it's what I've been accepting in order for it to make sense to me.

My theory regarding Timelines vs. Universes is that the characters like Kang that travel the timelines know that the timelines exist, but they haven't had any experiences with the actual multiverse to know that that also exists. Therefore, they assume that the timelines are the multiverse. If you notice, we haven't actually seen anyone such as doctor strange who knows about the existence of both (We know he could see timelines bc he looked at timelines in infinity war) say that timelines and universes are the same thing. Also, we have never seen a character who has seen the multiverse but not timelines call a universe a timeline. So it seems to make sense that calling timelines universes is just an act of ignorance. (The writers might also be ignorant too).

The problem is that they’ve confused it. DC’s multiverse is so much more simple and easy to follow because they are consistent. Marvel had alternate timelines in Loki & Avengers Endgame, but had alternate universes in No Way Home & Multiverse of Madness. The problem is that they had Loki explain them as the same thing when they aren’t. Multiverse is multiple universes with different changes from a main universe. This could be a universe with a near exact history to 616 that is completely changed by a timeline change. Or it could be completely different like the Spider-Men universes are. Alternate timelines are alternate realities created by changes in the timeline that are isolated to that universe. They aren’t the same, but Marvel aren’t being consistent with what does and doesn’t make up the Multiverse and how time travel works.

The MCU is starting to feel more like the Marvel comics nowadays. Too much stuff that is just endlessly rushed out. Best case scenario, marvel takes their time and releases bare minimum one movie per year, with a show in between, allowing writers/directors/CG artists time to work on their respective crafts. I’m sure everyone who works on this stuff is plenty talented, they just don’t have time to really showcase said talent.

The main issue for me is that now we are desensitized to any future conflicts or villains. There were literal GASPS in the theater during the snap, and we were cheering at the defeat of Thanos. But now we gloss over the fact that entire universes are destroyed by Dr. Strange, without the infinity stones mind you...and CELESTIALS exist and we're just like, yup those guys are weaksauce!

So, I might be missing something, but I don't actually think that it's ever implied that *every* decision or change creates a branch in the timeline. It's stated that the TVA steps in when someone "steps off their path", and the animations shows a branch created. And while it mentions that the triggering event could be as small as showing up late, that doesn't necessarily mean that *anyone* showing up late would be enough to create a branch. I took this to mean that, *even* a change that small *might* cause the creation of a new timeline. So, technically, there would still be *some* risk of creating a branch by messing around in Vesuvius. But the odds are way lower. I think the CGI they use to represent the sacred timeline helps represent this. It's not a single line, everywhere you look there are threads that break off momentarily, and then rejoin the bulk. Timelines that are so close to the original that there's no real difference between them. New universes are formed when a change is made that would, in some way, significantly alter the flow of time, even if the event that causes that change is really tiny. That also helps to waive away some of the weirdness in Endgame. Everything that happened was on sort of... loops and whorls in the main timeline. They (supposedly) managed to keep the timeline mostly consistent, with the TVA stepping in to clean up any unwanted timelines (like the one where Loki escapes). The whole explanation of branching universes from the Ancient One is still pretty contradictory, so I don't really know how to solve that one. As for Strange, I don't think this necessarily contradicted anything, when seen up there. America Chavez is unique across the multiverse because things she's involved in does not seem to create branching timelines, as part of her powers. So while she can hop from timeline to timeline easily, she never duplicates. Same reason Scarlet Witch couldn't necessarily just jump into the next reality over, where she won, and get her kids. The way you describe it, the multiverse would be so vast as to be ultimately meaningless. Every instant an infinite number of new multiverses would be spawning. But that's not what we're shown in *Loki*. Instead, we're shown a timeline that only branches occasionally. Otherwise, the TVA could never hope to maintain a single timeline. Every instant a branching timeline is allowed to exist, it would be spawning a nearly infinite number more.

I’m subscribing rn, this is the first video of yours I’ve ever watched and it’s freaking 30 mins long and yet I was surprisingly locked in the whole time, but like literally everything you said makes so much sense

I understand why normal viewers have trouble understanding the MCU knowing how convoluted it is. Imagine being a normie wanting some dumb fun then having to understand the difference between dimensions, timelines, and universes in a franchise that consistently contradicts its own rules.

Kang formed the main Time Line and maintained it's trajectory until the finale of Loki. The main Time Line consisted of all Multiverses. Remember, Kang's view of a Nexus event is one that causes his multiversal war to happen. All he was doing was preventing that. That is what he deemed the sacred timeline. If you notice from the series. they were always branches forming, some of those branches were left undone due to the fact that they were not significant enough for the war to happen. That's how Multiverses existed during the events of the first doctor strange movie. think about it

I like to think of it this way, none of the characters have a complete view of how time travel works. They all think they have the definitive truth, which is why they're all so confident in their explanations despite contradicting each other, but they only have a partial view of it all because it's that complex and unknowable for creatures as simple as humans...

The different actors playing variants sometimes and not others can be explained just by saying a different sperm won in that time line.

I agree they did back themselves into a corner with their writing. However the multiple Spider-Men looking like different people is simply because if there is multiple timelines then there’s a timeline where a different sperm met a different egg and so they can still be the same person but look totally different.

The easiest way to rationalize the dual explanations given on how time travel works is simply to accept that neither Banner nor the "Ancient One" actually have any true understanding of how time travel works. They both present their opinion as if it were fact in an effort to convince the listener (Lang for Banner, and Banner for AO), but this doesn't suggest they actually have innate knowledge of the subject. Having been guardian of the time stone, AO should be the authority, but there's no evidence to suggest she ever used the time stone let alone made any attempt to alter history.

Problems started with time travel. Instead of fixing their reality they went to several diff planes/ timelines and stole material in that world. Then sent CAP to completely different universes to put the stones back🤡

Loki makes a lot more sense when you realise it’s a show about making a TV show, with time travel and dimension hopping treated as equivalent because they are more or less identical writing tropes to allow for plot inconsistencies. Notice, for example, when Loki is being judged (or pitched) for his suitability as a TVA agent (or main character of a TV show) he’s presented with a literal script of all his dialogue, reminding us of how a TV show begins. Owen Wilson is the show runner. The TVA agents are editors who expunge false directions for the plot.

The mechanics of a story or several stories being nonsensical is NOT a nitpick! Anyone who says so should just admit that they don't care about quality writing. Why is the MCU giving incredibly ambitious and complex narratives to amateur writers? Phase four has some of the worst hack writing I've ever seen and the only reason it's successful is because of the good will the Infinity Saga has built up.

It’s refreshing to seen a fan of these shows and movies like the thing and also acknowledge it’s flaws instead of excusing them. I wish more fans were like you.

Possible explanation for the timeline/multiverse difference: Kang is the reason for the multiverse war. It was a war between different versions of himself. Any version of himself sufficiently different to *not* attempt to invade and control all universes would not need to be opposed. Thus, it's likely to prevent the task from becoming impossibly (i.e. infinitely) massive, he insulated all universes that contained a version of him who would oppose his rule (the ones "closest" to his own timeline") by containing them all within one sequence of events, so all timelines have the same result within that insulated cluster. This also explains why what happened in Pompei is allowed - at THE END OF EVENTS, the STATE of the universe is the same. Thus, no chance of an alternate version of Kang, and no chance of a multiversal war. It doesn't matter that another universe is created because Kang has controlled the sequence of events to result in the Kang in the prime timeline dying and being unable to challenge him, and so only events that change the long-term outcome of the world actually pose any threat. The result is that TIMELINE travel is fairly simple, as it requires only jumping to very nearby universes with only minute changes intentionally ironed out to result in minimal or even zero difference - this is why they were able to do it in Endgame with Pym particles... meanwhile MULTIVERSE travel is difficult, with travel between "timelines" being the very easiest and very simplest form of multiverse travel, hence why something like the Darkhold was required to travel to universes distinct in ways that are beyond just the timeline. It's not that all multiverses are alternate timelines, it's that alternate timelines are ONE form of alternate universe, and are "closer" and easier to reach than more drastically different universes like the paint universe. Kang doesn't care about universes other than timelines, because they're more difficult to reach and unlikely to create a multiversal war. Would be up to Marvel to explain this outright, and still would be convoluted, but at very least it could still be ironed out so that it isn't self-contradictory. Convoluted is fine as long as it's self-consistent.

8:12 “I’m 16 and I feel like getting political today” bruh moment.

I thought it was like, all the multiverses are there but all following the same timeline/story, but after Kang was killed, all those multiverses had free will.

No, absolutely nothing about the Marvel Multiverse "works". Not technically and not within the context of the rules the MCU recreates every few episodes/films. As far as Multiverse of Madness, you are wholly correct. And I actually think those same issues are inherent in "Spiderman No Way Home". They might even be more glaring in no way home from a technical standpoint. But honestly, those aren't even the worst choices made in the writing for NWH or MVoM. I really just think the writing for a lot of recent MCU has been just awful, terrible, inconsistent, corporate pandering. And a lot of the new MCU films come off to me as if written by SNL' s classic "wild and crazy guys" , with everything being "wild and crazy" but absolutely none of it making sense or being "good writing". And no, you aren't nitpicking. I actually have WAY more problems with No Way Home that just have to do with character choices, and I've been complaining about them since the first trailers for the film were released, before it came out. Just the idea that Strange would cast such a spell just to help Peter's very minor problem, was unbelievable, and no the 1 minute "explainer" where Strange and Wong talk about the party where everyone at the party forgot. Which is itself a terrible bit of writing even trying to compare changing the memory of people at a party compared to the ENTIRE world and seemingly every individual dimension. This is simply something Strange would never consider, let alone begin casting before actually explaining the ramifications to the person who is the entire focus of the situation and spell. Which might be the worst character choice of all. The idea that Strange would provide no explanation to Peter that literally all those close to him would forget, including Strange, is NOT a character choice Dr. Strange would make, but is ONLY a character choice the writer would create as a cheap rational to get the story where they want it to go. And in this case, it's beyond obvious, it actually kind of hurts the movie, at least for me, a lot. From that point on I can no longer take Strange or Peter seriously. It wholly destroyed my ability to suspend disbelief within the confines of this already established universe of relatively consistent characters. Or at least, what should be consistent characters. And from there, I honestly think the writing goes off the rails even more with the choice to bring these characters from different time lines right before they die, at all drastically different points in time, sometime within the same universe. How does that work exactly? Um it doesn't. I mean let's for a moment put aside the fact that backward time travel is fairly certainly completely impossible, and that "multiple dimensions" doesn't mean infinite copies of every possibility ever, but actual extra spacial dimensions, more akin to what is shown in Dr. Strange with all the various pocket realities, and worlds that don't adhere to normal physics. And forget the FACT that alternate "copies" of a character/person who aren't the same character/person are definitively NOT the same character/person. Thus, they are not "copies" or alternate dimension versions of one another but completely different people. We understand we have to trash the actual rules of reality to even get a film like this off the "rational" ground. But then to go on to establish not one, not two, but multiple different rule sets for the same film "universe", across different films and even within individual films, is just a sign that they really don't know or care how these things would work or if they make sense. No, they are just making a comic film universe where "imagination runs wild" and "anything and everything is plausible", that is, if it can lead to a profit, then it will be given the go ahead. And like, why does Strange's spell effect other "dimensions" at all ? Isn't it just a memory spell? Multiverse of Madness takes these and more inconsistencies to a completely higher level. I'm still waiting for the "perilous journey to the mountain" that Wong talks about, to take place. The one, that Wong stated "no one has ever survived", yet we see no sign of in the film as Wanda and Wong simply levitate their way to the platform. Which theoretically, anyone with a hint of magic could have done. And then this giant prophecy bit, well, a lot of crap really that just was referenced as meaningful but had no meaning within the film. And that's not even getting into the multiverse issues or America Chavez character, who was just a dull McGuffin really who still hasn't sat down to figure out her powers after seemingly sending her parents to a different dimension years ago. Ultimately, I'm not at all surprised by the lack of consistency or thought that went into the multiverse concepts, contradictions and just all around fails, because that same lack of consistency and effort is abundantly apparent in the majority of the MCU writing over the last 5-6 years or so. And it's unfortunate they took series from Netflix, because I thought Netflix did a better job with their series than Disney+ has done so far with most of theirs. Ms. Marvel is practically unwatchable, Hawkeye was very meh and the only reason it worked slightly better than Ms. Marvel is the main actress did an amazing job of making a relatively mediocre and uninspiring character somewhat entertaining on screen. A Hawkeye with none of the depth or backstory of the original Hawkeye. Ultimately though,, it's clear to me that the writing of MCU films has deteriorated extraordinarily since the early days of the MCU. The writing, for the most part, has gotten lazy, sloppy, drastically beyond the bounds of consistent and really ruins a lot of the content for me. Not quite as bad as the writing for Disney Star Wars, but bad enough to at this point verify that possibly the most important aspect of story telling, the writing and story, is a wholly secondary issue in Disney's list of priorities. Which basically means no matter what choices the MCU gets right, there will always be lingering story and plot issues that make MCU films less than what they ultimately could be.

I think the writers are deliberately throwing us pieces of jigsaw for us to connect but some of the pieces are false pieces. It was told in Loki that every choices branch timelines, and the branch that goes too far becomes a universe (called nexus event). That also means that unless it reaches the level of nexus event, it won’t become a universe. My hypothesis on the missing pieces is if it doesn’t reach nexus level it comes back to merge with the original timeline. Imagine like water droplet, there are surface tension that will bring back timelines for a merging, and when there are seams in the merging it is called Mandela effect. 616 is a grouping of infinite similar timelines that will branches out and merges back. False pieces in my opinion is that ‘he who remains’ never pruned other alternate universes as they already went beyond pruning, he only built a wall to keep them out. The pruning of timelines is just to prevent another universe to form within his ‘walls’. Universe segretion is to prevent multiversal war. Tobey’s and Andrew’s universe had always exist but Sylvie killing hhr just teared down the wall between 616 and their universe. Strange’s spell went nuts because his condition of spell never effect other universes because of the wall and now the game changed, he can’t carelessly cast them anymore.

bro that last scream woke up my entire family

This brings up so many things I was struggling with trying to write fanfic LOL. The more I researched shit, the more confused I got

The Ancient one wasn’t saying that removing an infinity stone is the only way to make a branch in time. She was saying that the infinity stones hold the structure of time together and the removal of one dooms that universe. So wherever point in time they go with the infinity stone will be fine because it just gained a stone however the point in time they just left will be doomed because that moment in time lost a stone

I think you're misunderstanding Avengers Endgame What Hulk is saying is that you CAN'T change the past as he believes there's a fixed timeline. When he meets The Ancient One she tells him he's wrong and that if you take an Infinity Stone it creates a branched reality. What The Hulk believed was wrong that's why he needs to be corrected

11:30 That's not how I understood the nexus and apocalypse events in Loki. The way I understood it is that there are multiple universes that differ to various degree but they more or less tell the same story. The key events in each universe are all the same and kept the same by TVA. Multiverse is not a problem for TVA as long as the story in each universe is in its core the same. It doesn't matter if you are wearing blue or red shirt on the day you are supposed to die in a car crash, if the result is the same. But if somehow wearing red results in you being delayed on your way and you are late to your car crash and you don't die, then there is a potential problem. There is a risk of another storyline and in that storyline a different (e.g. "more evil") version of He Who Remains will be born. This is how I understood it. In the apocalypse events, as long as everyone dies, there is no change to the "grand story" i.e. the sacred timeline, just some minor, irrelevant deviations.

I think a lot of people misinterpret a lot that is said in Loki. It’s not that there is no multiverse, it’s that Kang separated the mcu (sacred timeline) from the multiverse. There are still branching timelines from the sacred timeline that exist, but those branches never were allowed to connect to totally diff universes

The ancient one did NOT say that the ONLY way to make a branch timeline is by de-locating the stone from it's time stream. 6:24 *That is incorrect* She simply said REMOVING the stone from it's proper place in history, would result in a Dark, broken, ever worsening timeline. (Unless it should be returned to it's proper point in history). *Simply put, it's never said nor even close to implied that this is the only way to create a branch timeline* Unfortunately... Making a lot of your timeline argument after 6:24 *decently irrelevant*

Everything Everywhere all at once is one of the best movies I've ever seen. The real Multiverse of Madness.

what's even worse is that way before MoM, Marvel Comics themselves assigned the MCU as "Earth-19999" not "Earth-616." even Iman Vellani, the actress playing Ms. Marvel, pointed it out

Once alternate timelines and universes got introduced I knew things would get messy. I can overlook some issues as long as it dosen't get to egregious and the movies/shows are entertaining

This really just shows how convoluted the MCU has become.

**spoilers for The Loki Series** wait a minute in the beginning of Loki we see where he goes after he escapes in Endgame after getting the tesseract. Which is Mongolia. Then the Time Cops show up arrest him and purge the timeline. Soooooooo? If they did that then how did Steve Rogers return the mind stone if that timeline they took them from is gone now?

the multiverse is like a forest - each tree has different branches, but there's also many trees, and sometimes the roots of nearby trees intertwine while others don't. I think the way they approach the multiverse is actually fairly consistent, but its complex and hard to grasp

I will say, from what I understood from Loki, multiple timelines/multiverses always existed and were constantly being created, but so long as the events in those universes resulted in the same outcome as Kang wished for, they were considered to be the same timeline. Like, yes, it's a mess and this probably creates more problems than it solves, but honestly it seems like the writers made the rules vague on purpose as to allow multiple explanations to make sense and the shows/movies to still kinda work even when being produced simultaneously. It can be a good or a bad thing depending on who you ask.

the multiverse did exists. the “sacred timeline” was just a prewritten path for the various universes. when kang died and the tva was dismantled, there were no overseers to make sure each universe followed their very specific scripts. that’s why the multiverse plunged into chaos.

When you were talking about them mentioning the multiverse in doctor strange 1, I think that because Kang existed outside of time the preexisting multiverse might have been accessible to the master. He mentioned the multiverse wars occur, which is his past and possibly our future. But he could only manipulate the timeline after the events of endgame because the stones moved between the universe like the master said. That is why it is the sacred timeline because he needs the events of endgame to happen in order for him to hold control.

Do you not realize that the sacred timeline diverging into multiverses happens across the entire sacred timeline, meaning a slight change like someone not turning up to work in 1832 could result in Tom Holland's Spidey never being born and instead Andrew being born in his place, they literally show the entirety of the timelines breaking off into new multiverses and those multiverses breaking off into new ones as well. There is no logical reason for every Spidey to look the same because deviations happened from the birth of time to the end, there are Universes where Superheroes don't exist because a Caveman stepped on the wrong butterfly, the branching timeline took place across all of time simultaneously, meaning every variation of the Universe after its conception is now a reality somewhere.

My notes: 1. The Ancient One does *not* say that a branch timeline is only created when an infinity stone is removed. She is putting the act of taking an infinity stone in place of traveling back in time *at all.* The point she was making was that the flow of time will be split, and one of the branch timelines will be left without a stone. 2. Captain America traveled to the past and then found a way (that universe's time machines?) to get to the original timeline. 3. You have clearly put next to no effort into understanding the rules established by Loki. Things do not either create branch realities or not create branch realities. In the multiverse, there is a finite set of consistently active unique timelines/universes that are, by the TVA, kept incredibly similar, but still slightly and inevitably different. If a specific event occurs that is different between the timeline it occurred in and the sacred timeline (not necessarily a real timeline, but a path every timeline is expected to stay on, kind of like a script), it will be cleaned up by the TVA only if it is significant enough for them to detect. They literally had a line in the show suggesting that they can adjust their sensitivity. Keep up. When the Avengers traveled back in time, they created a new timeline. Of course this would cause the number of active timelines to tend to infinity (hence all of the lines about the multiverse being infinite, they are confusingly saying that it is *potentially* infinite), assuming there is no way to completely eliminate a timeline/universe (one might argue that Strange Supreme did that), but currently there are a manageable number of timelines. Ask yourself: When the TVA+Loki went to find Sylvie in Roxxcart in 2050, how did they know they were going to end up in the correct timeline? What is the synchronization between the passage of time in a timeline versus in the TVA? If there are an infinite number of unique universes, they would never have found the right one, but they went there on the first try. How did they end up in the exact same timeline without causing the passages of time to desynchronize unless they had only one option of exactly what point in time they would arrive during that event in the sacred timeline? The obvious answer is that there are finite timelines/universes that all exist at different moments in time, and when they went to find Sylvie, there was only one that fit the bill, so they believed they'd find her there. It would be entirely possible for there to be no timeline/universe that exists at that moment in the sacred timeline at the moment they went to find Sylvie, and that would have told them that she can't possibly be there. 4. Loki and Sylvie doing exactly what He Who Remains expected them to do is not bullshit at all, you're just garbage at following the story and thinking through the mechanics, since that's so important to you. 5. Who the hell are you to say it's a problem that, among infinite realities (actually *potentially* infinite realities), only one America Chavez exists? Infinite does not mean without rules. You can have infinite universes and have them all be exactly the same. Would you cry about a lack of specific differences between universes then? 6. If the multiverse hasn't been known to be accessible to Eldritch sorcerers, why the hell would Strange have a spell that allows him to travel it? Even the Darkhold, an item specifically created for multiversal magic, cannot enable people to travel the multiverse. The Runes of Kof-Kol did it on *accident.* Sure, it's theoretically possible. Of course it is. If America and the Runes of Kof-Kol can do it, there is absolutely a way to figure it out. That doesn't mean either of those characters know how. Honestly, you aren't even nitpicking at this point, you're just asking for fixes to things that aren't problems and don't even demand acknowledgement. Really the *only problem* with this franchise's portrayal of the multiverse is that people keep confusingly suggesting that there are infinite universes. The multiverse is infinite, there are not infinite universes. Similarly, space may be infinite, but there are not infinite galaxies. Every other "problem" is just a confusing plot element that is justifiable but didn't have to be confusing, like old Cap showing up after not returning through the time machine he used to get there. Wow SUCH AN EASY FIX, you could just actually figure out how this stuff works. This is what flat earthers do with physics. Please, for your sake, don't become a scientist. Honestly all of this lines up super well cuz you genuinely seem to be a really insufferable person, so at least I can know that nearly nobody will give a shit what you think anyway. However, yeah, Vulture being taken by the Sony universe is incredibly stupid and annoying.

Wait the Ancient One said new timelines are "ONLY" created by infinity stones being removed? I missed that. Also, I think the point she made about the Time Stone needing to be returned is only because she is self assured (incorrectly hopefully as it no longer exists in the main timeline) that they are doomed without it, not that their reality will destabilize or something. Is it specifically explained that old man Cap lived out his life in the main timeline? I assumed that he lived it out in a branch timeline and came back to a pinpoint location to return the shield. I don't think it's specified that the only way back to the main timeline is the specific gate left through. What's not to say he conspired with Hank (who developed the baseline of the tech and could easily figure it out) to have him returned through the gate the day before so he could execute the plan and told Bucky beforehand, which would explain why he wasn't surprised in the slightest. I'm not gonna dispute Loki making things a bit too much, but the way I see the "pruning" system is more that there are ACCEPTABLE timelines which Kang allows and destabilizing timelines that blow up his system. His watch over the multiverse is only aimed at preventing the multiversal war, not eliminating every single timeline. Ultimately he just wants to maintain reality, not to be a power hungry tyrant. It is definitely too messy to be explainable or realistically believable, which is where you just have to shrug and just attribute it to "comic book logic". The America point is an interesting one, that she must be some sort of special being and have a singular destiny and no free will. Who knows, perhaps she has some hidden origin explaining how she can not create branches. Wanda was not the good guy at the end of the show, it's a just a doorway to her corruption. Just because Monica comforts her a bit doesn't make her a hero. Wanda is a character that has always been self centered with a shade of good heartedness, which does not make someone "good" aligned. She is neutral as all hell. Wanda is only seeing those alternate versions of herself through the Darkhold. It is a evil sentient book, why in the hell would it allow her to see realities where Billy and Tommy don't exist or a reality where they were born and Wanda died so she could slip right in? The book is the villain, seems pretty cut and dry to me. I mean, it's just nit picking all the nit picking but like, this is just comic books and as with reading them my entire life, they are bizarre and you gotta accept some of the mess along with the good stuff.

You forget that every way Wanda's personality was developed in Wandavision is meaningless because she got corrupted by the dark hold and that's the reason why she's blindsighted, why she can't see universes without her children, why her personality is changed, why she doesn't care about vision anymore and how her actions could lead to the destruction or the enslavement of the multiverse. The dark hold tricked and convinced her into acquiring transuniversal powers to later fulfill the prophecy of the Scarlet Witch. Although this makes sense and makes the movie more enjoyable, I've seen so many people miss this essential part of the plot. I noticed it the first time I watched the movie but it is hard to instantly pick up on which is why the movie should've been more clear on this matter to avoid confusion like yours.

7:00 My thoughts on what the ancient one was saying that removing the infinity stones would create a dark timeline. because removing the time stone for example would have stopped Doctor Strange from defeating Dormamu. Not that removing the stone was the only way to create a new timeline.

Alright so... I'll be trying to explain how I think the Multiverse works. The problem isn't that this Multiverse cannot make sense with everything set up so far, just that the movies refuse to explain it. (Which is obviously because Marvel has not bothered to actually make any definite rules themselves) So here's my personal take on it all: The Multiverse comes from the fact that infinite universes exist by themselves. Every Universe can either be very similar to the 616 Universe or completely different. At any point in a universe, something can happen differently from how we saw it in the MCU, creating infinite possibilities in the Multiverse. I believe that separate timelines are the same thing as separate universes. The only difference is, that timelines are only created when something is changed within one universe and aren't created naturally. By that I mean, that one character in one universe isn't taking every possible action every moment, creating a new timeline for every choice, but instead they take just one singular action. Each person does one thing. That's it. When someone travels through time (like in Endgame) or to a point in another universe (like in Loki) new timelines are created, but other than that, every universe only has the one timeline. In Endgame, the Ancient One isn't saying that removing an Infinity Stone is the only thing that can create a new timeline. Removing one would just have a very big effect on how things play out in that timeline. For example, the Time -Stone is needed to defeat Dormammu, so if it's gone before that, the Dark Dimension would take over that universe. The "Sacred Timeline" seems to not just be one universe, but a collection of similar universes. If a universe is similar enough to the MCU we know, then it's a part of the Sacred Timeline. If a universe diverges too much from that, then it's pruned by the TVA. This would also make it so the multiverse did exist before Loki, it just wasn't as "diverse" before. Every timeline was relatively similar to Universe 616, but there were still a basically infinite amount of them. This also explains how characters can hide in disasters in Loki. If everything you do will have no lasting impact, then the new timeline you are creating won't diverge too much from the original universe. This means that the new timeline is still part of the larger Sacred Timeline and thus will not be pruned by the TVA. I believe Kang / the TVA is monitoring the Multiverse via technology Kang invented. It's probably not because Kang is omnipotent or anything like that. Kang also probably doesn't come from a Universe similar to Universe 616, but a completely different one. This is because otherwise, there would still be multiple Kangs, who then all discover the multiverse on the Sacred Timeline. This would also make sense, since Reed Richards doesn't exist in the main MCU universe as far as we know. Now onto Variants. This was explained reasonably well in Loki in my opinion, but I'll explain it again here. Variants are separate versions of the same person in different universes. They can look the same or different, as long as they're still considered the same person, just from different universes. This makes it so the 3 Spider-Men can all look different. Most of the Lokis in Loki also looked different. Most people have a basically infinite number of Variants, since basically infinite universes exist. America Chavez is unique however, because there's only one of her. She has no Variants. Her existing in multiple timelines isn't a problem either, since there's only one. There's one America Chavez who always makes one specific decision. That's why there's just one of her. When it comes to how time travel and stuff works with her... No idea. Honestly don't know. Maybe she just wouldn't be in the newly created timeline? Maybe that would create a second version of her and the two could meet? I really have no way of knowing. Also, the thing about America being the only being that can open portals between universes: I assume that she's the only mortal, who has the ability by herself without any outside assistance. Wanda and Strange use Magic and Sorcery respectively, while the Watcher doesn't count as a mortal. That's how I'd explain it at least. There's also a few other random rules set up in different shows and movies. For example, in What If? we learn that there are specific points in every universe that cannot be changed when creating a branching timeline. So I don't think the problem with the MCU Multiverse is that it contradicts itself, but that there isn't any single set of rules for the writers to follow. Every one of them probably has their own headcanon on how it all ties together, like I do, which could all technically work. However, the longer this goes on, the bigger this mess will become, until there isn't any semblance of a consistent Multiverse left. What Marvel really has to do is lay down the ground rules for how all of this works and explain it to the audience in a way that makes sense. Until that happens, it will continue to be a very big problem. I think that covers everything. If you have any questions about or there's anything that contradicts my explanation, feel free to reply with them I guess.

Why does everyone think that The Ancient One explains the timeline only branching with the infinity stones? She uses the stones as an example. Remove the time stone and their "chief weapon against the forces of darkness" is gone, leaving them defenceless in that new branch. Banner then talks about putting the stone back, which is visualized as removing the branch, but explained as making it so that branch's future continues the same as the Banner's timeline already did. It's the "Sacred Timeline" view from Loki, where there are, in fact, many many timelines that all follow a similar path, with the branches pruned off. That's not to say that this video doesn't make some good points about the nature of the multiverse being... messy (to put it politely), but I keep hearing this thing about The Ancient One stating a different set of rules, but she doesn't.

Remember when Steve Rogers criticized Tony for being self centered? What Steve did at the end of Endgame made him look like a hypocrite. Tony sacrificed everything to save the universe and here we have Steve living his simple life in 1940s and ignoring all the world's troubles when it is out of character for him to hide.

I have always been confused about how in far from home Mysterio said he was from universe 616, but spoiler alert, he turned out to just be some guy already from the same universe. So how did he know *this* universe was 616? He just so happened to guess that exact number? I would say it’s fine if alternate Christine called it a different number, but she confirmed it was 616. Which, by the way, how would she know doctor Strange was from that universe anyway? Are they just constantly monitoring different universes and that’s how they figured it out? But there are infanent universes! It’s just so confusing and I think I need some sleep. 🥴

I always felt that the Multiverse is like asking forbidden questions about life, like what if there was no World War 2?

I agree entirely with what you said about the mechanics of the multiverse; it's just so interesting to me how such a big franchise can just miss these details; how hard is it to understand that two things with different names are two other things, timelines and universes and very different.

I'm back after seeing some defenses on both Thor and Captain America, and I'll say. Endgame didn't rip the characters apart, it merely did an incredibly poor job of explaining how and why the character's arcs are going in the direction they're going in because the movie isn't about exploring the characters, it's about ending them and letting Phase 4 happen. Phase 4 should've explained and properly shown where the loose ends came from and how they were being tied up in Endgame before phase 5 did the multiverse stuff. Then, use the multiverse to split up everything and everyone in their own unique plots and voila! You can just let your writers be split off into different teams that need to resolve certain plots. Technically, the only issues that you've pointed out narratively is that the TVA feels like it should have a much more important and much more grander and oppressive feeling to it and yet, it doesn't. It really and honestly doesn't. It feels beatable, not unbeatable and the only reason it isn't being beaten is because nobody knows about their blindside nor is capable of rising up and hitting it with the highest amount of might in the world. The big-picture narrative convinces the audience that the TVA is beatable but the practical application doesn't, and the film needs to fix that in order to first convince everyone that the TVA is unbeatable for a noticeable and impactful amount of time while letting us see and properly appreciate Kang's influence. No speeding into beating the TVA, before then we have to establish their threat level and why we should care about them, then move on to caring about Sylvie and then cycle all the way back around to having Loki find a way to make sure that the two of them don't end up just killing each other. You've made me think. Thanks buddy, for the thoughts. gLiTcH will enjoy this so much, and EmperorBoo won't have to take care of them all as badly.

Most writers use the concept of a multiverse as a free real-estate for writing. Bioshock infinite also did not understand how time travel works. Using the idea of an "infinite" set of possibilities to hide plot holes from the average viewer, but end up making the plot holes that much more noticeable on second viewing.

Here's the thing: are the general movie audiences capable of grasping the distinction between a multiverse and alternate timelines? It's possible for an alternate timeline to become an established alternate universe after all, look at Age of Apocalypse and 2099, and Gaiman's 1406. Generally alternate timelines don't last, but they can become persistent, basically based on their popularity with readers. And we're dealing with a universe that can become a whole other universe at the drop of a hat, through the actions of just one person, like House of M. This is why I've always preferred DC's cosmology, it's been very consistent over the years, while Marvel tends to just make up new stuff all the time for convenience, so it's actually fitting that the MCU is in the state it is.

While i do agree that it’s stupid, that is how it works and has worked forever in the comics. The only real exceptions are alternate universes in different time periods like Marvel Noir for example. My biggest issue with the MCU is them establishing the main mcu timeline as the 616 universe, basically creating a whole new multiverse from the comics, making things even more convoluted.

Alternate timelines SHOULD be alternative universes if the concept of the multiverse is being based on a layman understanding of quantum mechanics, which is probably what the Marvel Studios writers are working off of (at least those who care enough to do any homework). The idea that alternate timelines can exist within one universe in a multiple universe system would be specific to the fantasy canon of the Marvel comics and other media, which Marvel Studios assuredly does not care about at this point.

What Marvel and DC are dealing with in these movies is a “movie-verse” not a multiverse. It’s their chance to give every fan, or group of fans, of every movie they’ve ever made exactly what they want. It’s nostalgia for nostalgia’s sake. I mean, they brought George Clooney back for god’s sake, not even acknowledging that George Clooney’s Batman’s WORLD was completely, totally unique from ours. It makes absolutely no logical sense and it ends up making none of the characters or movies mean anything either really. That’s why it’s failing.

Here’s how I rationalize it: It’s a multiverse - so infinite universes, and infinite universes similar to one another or parallel universes. In Loki, they reference the “Sacred Timeline”, in which the TVA enforces the timeline for that universe. My guess is that a higher power - whether it be Kang or a stronger force (not that familiar with the comics haha) - has the power to destroy other universes until only parallel universes with almost identical timelines remain. The TVA’s reach would span across those universes to enforce the sacred timeline to make sure that each universe runs parallel to one another. In Endgame, I don’t think that they were traveling through time, but between parallel universes with almost identical timelines - which is why their original timeline/past is unaffected when they return. The TVA is fallible, and there’s a lot of universes to cover, so I would think the standard is as long as the universe’s timeline runs “relatively” parallel to one another, then it’s fine to have some variance. And how much variance that is allowed between universes would be up to Kang/TVA/Higher Power (or writer tbh). So Sylvie opens up the multiverse (again, as it seems that Kang’s efforts with the TVA were to limit the chaos caused from a previous multiverse war), expanding it to include universes with timelines that are vastly different then the sacred timeline. Idk maybe that’s contradictory to what’s been established but that’s how I view it.

Just to chime in about the "three Peters issue". It's only really an issue if they are all somehow meant to be literal variants of *our* Peter. Now, that might be a confusing sentence for some: "Of course they are variants of our Peter! They are Peter Parker & they're Spider-Man!" However, let's think about how we're defining variant here, because there's actually two definitions. There are literal variants who are literal variations of your life, spinning off from decisions that you have personally made. And then there are coincidental variants, who share your name & many details of your life, but if you look back through both of your histories, there was no definitive split point. You just coincidentally share a name & history with this person, and whatever timeline split occurred, happened way before either of you were born. The two other Peters are likely the second variety of variant; They have zero shared history between them, had radically different lives on substantially different versions of Earth & the fact that they are all different ages means that there's no singular event that could have resulted in these three Peters being split from one another. This might seem like it supports the idea of there being a problem, but only if we don't follow this train of thought to its natural conclusion. Remember, the timeline-split model of the multiverse isn't limited to the characters we have seen in the MCU. The universe existed billions of years before Tony Stark was even an itch in his father's nuts, and thus, we have timeline splits going as far back as the big bang (maybe even earlier), so the multiverse doesn't simply represent diverging paths in the personal histories of the characters we've observed, but instead, every possible version of reality resulting from any possible divergence stretching back to the beginning of the universe. Thus, we have our explanation for why it's sometimes the same actor & sometimes a different one. Using the Spider-Man example, any future variant with Tom Holland's face likely diverged from the MCU's version of Spider-Man. Meanwhile, Spider-Men with different actors, like Andrew or Tobey, came about in a timeline\universe that split off from the MCU WAAAAAY before any of them were even born, and their shared life, history & identity are purely coincidental. If even a single Peter Parker Spider-Man can exist, it therefore follows that in an infinite multiverse with infinitely diverging timelines stretching back to the beginning of time that every possible version of Peter Parker Spider-Man can & does exist. If you can imagine a version of Peter, no matter how ludicrous, they exist. A lot of them will be variants of the Tom Holland Spider-Man, but there will be universes where a Peter Parker was born earlier & had these foundational events occur earlier as well, and that Spider-Man in turn will have an uncountable number of variants of his own. Not even just referring to Andrew or Tobey at this point, there could be a version of history that enabled a Peter Parker Spider-Man to exist in WWII or in medieval times. There could even be a version of Peter Parker Spider-Man who has powers & an aesthetic similar to The Atom, and that's because the words for "shrink" & "spider" are swapped in that universe. At that point, they are definitely not variants of our Spider-Man, but they are still valid in the split-timeline multiverse model, as it is entirely possible for someone called Peter Parker to become Spider-Man at any point in time, if that universe's version of history allows it. In the infinite multiverse, there is no such thing as "too coincidental". It's quite the rabbit hole to jump down, the more you think about it. And even if they were all born at the same time & existed in a fundamentally similar reality, all it would take is a different sperm or a different egg to create a different looking Spider-Man, so even ignoring the larger implications of a timeline-split multiverse, differences in appearance are still entirely explainable through very simple means. And of course, this isn't binary. There could be a non-MCU variant of Spider-Man that still looks like Tom Holland, because again, the infinite multiverse dividing from infinite timelines allows for all possible outcomes. It's not even a case of "all things are possible to happen in the multiverse", but rather, " In the multiverse, all possible things *have* happened". All people have had all faces on all planets in all time periods, somewhere out there. To put it more simply: Variations of the MCU timeline = Same Actor. Timelines that radically diverged far earlier on, but coincidentally still developed a Peter Parker Spider-Man = Different actor. Timelines that radically diverged far earlier on, but coincidentally still developed a Peter Parker Spider-Man, but also coincidentally got the same face as Tom Holland = Same actor And this covers the Evan Peters thing as well. In one universe, that face belonged to Quicksilver & in the MCU, it belonged to some dude named "Bohner" who coincidentally got mind controlled into pretending to be Quicksilver for some fucking reason. Honestly, the Evan Peters thing is more needlessly contrived than it is downright broken (as far as the use of his face goes, that is). This also covers the many wacky universes in Multiverse of Madness, like the paint, cartoon or blocks universe; those splits likely occurred during the Big Bang, where the fundamental rules of reality could have gone in many fundamentally different directions, and thus, all variations of the laws of physics came into existence all at once in a functionally infinite number of universes that then began diverging into their own variations within their own frameworks. If you want to *really* get nuts, Tom Holland himself could be argued to be a person who coincidentally got the same face as the Spider-Man from the MCU & coincidentally got to play that version of the character in several films, which by this logic, means that all works of fiction are actually non-fiction & all works of fiction involving actors are actually unintentional re-enactments. Admittedly, this is deeply confusing to explain without visual aids, but I hope the general idea has been communicated here. If divergences in the timeline began at The Big Bang, than all possible realities can exist, and not just the ones directly spinning off from the events of the MCU, and any similarities to the characters in the MCU & their variants are more coincidental than downright broken. The MCU Multiverse is still hopelessly broken in many other ways, though. Just wanted to explore this particular wrinkle.

7:35 Steve tells Bucky he is with him until the end of the line. *Proceeds to abandon him because time travel*

About Captain America: Old Captain America doesn't necessarily have to have stick around for a long time to meet Bucky and Sam on the bench. He could've come out of the machine earlier when they weren't around then sat out of sight in the bench till Bucky noticed him. About He Who Remains: I just assumed he has technology that can detect unwanted changes to the timeline, like how a seismologist doesn't have to be everywhere in a world for the seismograph to alert them. HWR is from the future so technology could be as capable as you can imagine to do that and track variants words over their lifetimes.

I think the problem is both the collection of timelines, the collection of Dimensions, and the infinite number of distinct universes, are all called the multiverse by characters despite being functionally different. Doctor Strange in his own movie sees into the other Dimensions in his universe. It's established that sorcerer's can reach into different dimensions, and sometimes actual gateways can be created. Doctor Strange in Infinity War looked into potential timelines. This allowed him to find the 1 that would eventually lead to success. In Endgame they travel through time. The Ancient one explained that by removing the infinity stone, their timeline would be thrown out into darkness, because it's an infinity stone, they kind of need to exist for the universe to function. In their parallel timeline removing the stone would break pretty much everything. Other parallel timelines would be ok, but not the one they were currently in. In Loki timelines were pruned by the TVA/Kang when they diverged too much because of the risk of creating a variant of Kang. Sylvee killing Kang caused irreparable branches in that timeline, creating a Multiverse. These could be much different from the Sacred Timeline. Spiderman No Way Home only affected the timeline, and the reason it reached into those other movies, is because Kang couldn't prune branches in the timeline before they diverged enough. In the Multiverse of Madness they travel between different universes. It's established that only America can freely do this, while other characters can only Dream walk at the most. I don't think it breaks established rules because it's a different thing from what has been happening so far. It's also reasonable to assume that wanda created her kids from her dreams, so not every kid would be from a hex. It's also reasonable to assume that any version of her kids that's close enough to the ones she lost, would have to be in a universe very similar to her own. She wanted her kids, not random kids with the same name and look. That limited her options a ton. I'm not saying it's amazing. No each explanation comes with its own issues. But I really don't think the MCU hasn't made a distinction between these things, so there's no reason to think that the rules governing each thing would apply to others. Dimensions are different, Timelines are different, and Universes are different. All are called the Multiverse. And honestly is that really a problem? What's the difference between a universe incredibly similar to the starting one, and an alternate timeline that branched out recently? What's the difference between a kind of different universe, and an extremely branched timeline? There's an infinite number of both, many are going to end up very similar. I do think writers need to communicate more, and I agree that it's kind of a mess right now. But it's not as bad as you think it is. Except for Morbius, we just have to pretend that it never happened.