Mary, Mother of God: What the Early Church Fathers Believed 

You have just admitted that you reject the scriptures and you take writings of men over what is recorded that christ and his disciples taught. You need to reevaluate maam. Are you following christ or the ideas of men??

@@toyosioyejobi309 I admitted no such thing. I study the scriptures daily. What I admitted was that I stopped interpreting scripture for myself to my detriment. I am following Christ in the way that he asked that we follow him, not in my own, misguided way like I used to.

Same here. I still love Dr Staley, but I am learning about the church and our Lady. I even ordered a chaplet( never had it before so excited)

@@toyosioyejobi309 and you ae proof of how protestants interpret everything on their own, with out regard for the truth or respect for their fellow men.

@@josemadrigal2293 I don't care of protestants or interpretation. I care about what the letters and books in the new testament historical account records of the life, teachings, practices amd beliefs of Jesus, the apostles, and the new testament Christian communities

yup...

@@nosuchthing8 Because she's the mother of a PERSON (as every other mother), in this case, the SECOND PERSON of the Trinity, wich is Jesus Christ.

All through miracles! He shows us just who he is!

AMEN!!! ☦️♥️🙏

@Kavid Dwiz What has to do with repent?

Kavid Dwiz. Okay Satan

Kavid Dwiz Half those numerals weren’t used until the middle ages. Stop with these satanic lies. You’re being played.

@Mr. Mister devil is father of all lies n you are decived by satan that's why you can't see the true church one holy catholic Church.

@@POCCNRCKNbY you are already played by devil coz it can't digest the truth

Very true

"And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord* should come to me?" - Elizabeth

@TheDay Cometh How many times are Jesus and God mentioned in a Catholic mass? How many times is Mary mentioned? One of the problems is that Protestants tend to equate prayer with worship. For Catholics, these are two distinct things, with worship being reserved for God alone at mass, with the Eucharist at its core. A question for you: do you think Joshua equated the Ark of the Covenant to God when he protrated himself before it? NB The Ark held the Word of God in stone, Mary held the Word of God in the flesh (this is called typology and was used by the early Christians, the Apostles' disciples, to read the OT in light of the NT and vice versa.) God bless.

@TheDay Cometh Jesus has a Mother and She is Mary. Jesus is our Lord and Savior. There's one God in three persons, Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

@TheDay Cometh You're assuming again. Maybe you're brainwashed by your cult. There's only one Church established by Jesus and that's the Holy Catholic Church, so you're the one who belongs to a cult of false teaching.

Ha needs a little doctoring no pun intended you should've said there 😜

Amen! You got that right. I don’t think I’d want to say anything bad about Mary... look who you would tick off! 😂😂😂

Kavid Dwiz Sickness

Ruben Martinez so that means she’s the mother of god the son which god and son cannot be devided are are one as is the holy spirt Mary is the mother of god

Queen of Hearts. Exactly what I tell people. But they still insist on talking down on her. I think it’s a pride thing.

@@kaviddwiz6556 No Catholic has ever called the pope that, we have, however occasionally referred to him as Vicarius Christi.

That's almost as bad as Hulu!

Not

Yes! In the family of God she is a mother for all men & women of the earth. We are not a single parent family, you have a mother who cares for you and prays for you, obtaining answers to your prayers that you have longed for.

Ave Maria.

Mr. Mister no what’s your point?

@Mr. Mister "Jesus is God, Mary is the mother of Jesus, ergo..."?

Still not accurate

@@robertlehnert4148 God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), has no beginning and no end, therefore, God never had a mother. To call Mary the "Mother of God" means that she existed before God which is utterly false doctrine. Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus when He became a man, not a God while living on this earth.

@@scooterbob4432 Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli all disagree with you, from Sola Scriptura grounds too. The anti-Mpther of God thing was more of the 17th Century, when things like The 30 Years War and the English Civil War lead the more strident Protestants into rejecting ANYTHING Papist, including to the first Unitarian sects rejecting the Trinity and Jesus' Divinity. "Reject the Mother, and you inevitably will reject the Son"-- St Alphonse Ligouri

also low volume

Mr. Mister so Jesus isn’t God?

@Mr. Mister Jesus is the Son of God and Mary is the mother of the Son of God. Jesus is seated at the right hand of God in heaven and will judge you. Jesus and the Father are One. Didn't you know that?

@Mr. Mister Is Jesus not God?

She's received a degree of bachelor of science in lifetime achievement

TheDay Cometh god created all things noting was created that wasint created by and all things are possible do I think Mary was their from the beginning no do I belive that god had her created at the fall of man with Adam and Eve yes . See god the father has not just one person he has 3 beings father son and holy spirt so if I said to u Mary the daughter of the father the mother of son and spouse of holy spirt would u agree . If I said to u that son of god came in flesh would u agree . If I said to that 3 wise men came and worshiped god in flesh would u agree would u agree in Matthew the angel called Mary he’s mother . Would u agree if that Elizabeth called Mary the mother of my lord would u agree that lord is a name for god would u agree that god called women to who would bring forth the seed to defeat Satan would u agree that the showed women bearing male child who’s caught up to god on he’s throne who’s the only one on trone with father yes it’s father son and holy spirt so who’s the women wait let’s see what Jesus called Mary oh yeah he called her women so would u agree that god always called the mother women in geneses in the New Testament and revelations but hang on she’s only mother of flesh of Jesus u say well where in bible dos it say she’s only the mother of flesh it says ion bible quiet clear the word is god the word became flesh it didint stay spirt would u agree. Now can I ask u when Jesus rise from the dead and showed he’s hands and feet to Thomas and eat with apostles would u agree god rise in the flesh and would u agree he went to heaven in flesh and spirt together and u agree that god can’t be separated from from Jesus well my friend would u agree that the mother of that flesh that god brought to heaven with him the mother of that flesh is the women Mary . Would u agree and would u agree he’s coming back same way he went up well if u do son behold ur mother amen

TheDay Cometh but everything I said to u is in scripture give me one thing I said to u that’s not in scripture brother please

TheDay Cometh what did I give u that’s not in bible tell me brother see by u denying what I said to u u deny the word and if u deny that the flesh of Jesus is god ur not Christian because my friend the word became flesh ok listen I’m going make it simple for you here did Jesus bring the flesh he had on earth to heaven and is Jesus god in heaven and who’s mother of that flesh so if Jesus was god on earth in the flesh and went heaven in flesh and is god in flesh in heaven who’s mother of that flesh of course it’s the women who in geneses is seed and it’s her seed and in revelations who’s the male child in revelations born of women and who was born on earth let me answer its Jesus yes he’s god and my brother guess who women is well listen to Jesus he called he’s mother women letting us all no she’s the women and who’s the women it’s Mary and who’s Jesus he’s god and who’s mother of god of course it’s women

TheDay Cometh so i ask you again show me where it says she’s not the mother of god I showed u where she is

I did when Satan tried tempt Jesus he gave Jesus scripture did Jesus answer with verses no he told him it’s said in scripture but if u no ur bible ul see everything I say is tru I want u to look and get back to me in a few days and tell me it’s not tru see I don’t give verses I give u the truth I give u the bible not verse u seek ul find I tell u what answer me this u hate catholic’s because you think we worship right go to revelations and answer this the faithful church that’s ment be use ok why in verse 9 is god ment say ul be worshiped because he loves u and ur bible k j v was originally Catholic Church bible when it was changed to kjv 611 it had all books and did u no it was written by catholic priest check it all up but please pray read ur bible see what I said is not in it and see history I gave u is tru and reason I said all books was in it it is because all books in it means praying to dead once was in it and has been removed so just giving u all truth remember Satan uses verses we gave u book cause we’re ones who put it together

It's a free talk so consider it an ad....and you can turn it off.

@@chuckHart70 I could turn it off, that's true ... Or I can watch the video and enjoy it, and then afterwards leave a constructive criticism on it like I did.

His book is that good ☺️

I’m reading the book now ...

Due to misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the Biblical history I think you need more study sad to say you need more study 😌☺️😌

Are you denying that Mary conceived, carried, gave birth to, and raised Jesus?

@@georgepierson4920 nope! you are because you did not know the plan and purpose of God why He chose Mary to be his instrument. being manifested in the flesh Mary is the mother of Jesus but Jesus being God Mary has no connection with Jesus. That is why you can not find a verse from the bible that Jesus call Mary mother but Woman. Sounds like an insult but if you will analyze Christ statement you find out the truth that Mary was just God's instrument to fulfill his prophecy.

@@georgepierson4920 you ever learning but not able to come to the knowledge of truth how long would you live and embrace the teaching of men.

​@@venonebihag1426 Fundamentalists are sometimes horrified when the Virgin Mary is referred to as the Mother of God. However, their reaction often rests upon a misapprehension not only of what this particular title of Mary signifies but also of who Jesus was-and of what their own theological forebears, the Protestant Reformers, had to say regarding this doctrine. A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses, because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her-not Joseph-that Jesus “was descended from David according to the flesh” (Rom. 1:3). Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism. Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not his mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person-Jesus Christ, God “in the flesh” (2 John 7, cf. John 1:14)-and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ. To avoid this conclusion, Fundamentalists often assert that Mary did not carry God in her womb, but only carried Christ’s human nature. This assertion reinvents a heresy from the fifth century known as Nestorianism, which runs aground on the fact that a mother does not merely carry the human nature of her child in her womb. Rather, she carries the person of her child. Women do not give birth to human natures; they give birth to persons. Mary thus carried and gave birth to the person of Jesus Christ, and the person she gave birth to was God. The Nestorian claim that Mary did not give birth to the unified person of Jesus Christ attempts to separate Christ’s human nature from his divine nature, creating two separate and distinct persons-one divine and one human-united in a loose affiliation. It is therefore a Christological heresy, which even the Protestant Reformers recognized. Both Martin Luther and John Calvin insisted on Mary’s divine maternity. In fact, it even appears that Nestorius himself may not have believed the heresy named after him. Further, the “Nestorian” church has now signed a joint declaration on Christology with the Catholic Church and recognizes Mary’s divine maternity, just as other Christians do. Since denying that Mary is God’s mother implies doubt about Jesus’ divinity, it is clear why Christians (until recent times) have been unanimous in proclaiming Mary as Mother of God.

john 19:26-27

When was Numbers written?

The only confusion are personal opinions and protestant's errors and mistranslations. Sorry, the church does not err when it comes to its canons and official teachings. Simon (Peter) was called "Cephas" meaning rock in Aramaic. Petros is rock / boulder / stone in Greek.

@@alfray1072 when salt has lost its flavour it has no more use at all. These same dogma's that continue to divide not unite all,is proof that they are stuck in the past. They no different from judaiac and Islamic teachings, always repeating their prophets or church fathers. Like their ceremonies and rituals,it proves they hate change and prefer absolute obedience to a Pope or whoever. No different from political or absolutism of kings. Church and state power over us all

@@frederickanderson1860 The Catholic Church developed western civilization, I will stick to the church. There is no point of declaring a dogma if you just flip flop on your beliefs. Sorry, but communism and all of its subsets na_zism, socialism, capitalism, fascism etc etc are all zi_onist scams

@@alfray1072 You can hardly call Peter a rock when he crumbled in fear and denied he ever knew Jesus.

@@edwardlongfellow5819 Jesus name changed Simon 's name to Peter / Cephas, that is why we call him Peter. Please respect Jesus' decision

Satan hated Mary first.

@Shawn The Sheep Jesus said come to Him directly , why do you need middlemen like saints and so many marys the catholic church has created aka Our lady of Guadolope, health. Hope, help , our lady of the Sea. Please give list of all the marys. This is satanic.

So, you do not believe that Jesus is God because Mary is Jesus' mother.

If we had followed your hermanutics You wouldn't have any idea of who Christ is. His hypostatic union would have been sliced and diced. Knowing who she is Sinless Ever Virgin Theotokos And so on protects Christ's title and actions of the cross.

yeah, and he took almost 50 minutes just to say that 🤣

So, you believe that Mary cannot be Jesus' mother because the scriptures never show Jesus calling her his mother?

Show me where I said that mary wasn't jesus mother , I said that mary was the mother of jesus the flesh not jesus who is eternal God, one body two natures , truly man, truly God, nowhere in scripture does it support mary being mother of God,

@@garyholian3552 Look up the heresy of Nestorianism because that is exactly what you Protestants believe concerning Mary.

We believe what bible says not men , your trust is in man made religion, my trust is in God's word alone, Catholicism is a corrupt man made religion, a false gospel, leading people to destruction, perverted, false, wicked , christ jesus disciples are those who keep to His words, catholic church certainly dont , repent and turn to christ and trust in him alone for salvation,

@@garyholian3552 Oh, the Hypocrisy. Every Reformation and Post Reformation group was founded by some man or some woman who had a problem either with the Catholic Church or whatever Reformation or Post Reformation group they were with prior. None of you can even agree on baptism. Jesus said to listen to the Church and to the Apostles. He never said that the King James 1611 Bible was your only authority.

catholic church gave us bible. catholic church exist before bible. and where is that early church now that Jesus created? you asking like where in old testament claimed that the Messiah name is Jesus. you don't know anything about the early church father's writings. study that first.

@@k11155 If the Catholic Church gave us the Bible, isn't it strange that the Church failed to include any word about the assumption of Mary, her immaculate conception and about the efficacy of praying to her; about the veneration of relics, images and saints; about the use of holy water; about the ceremony of the mass; about a pope’s being the vicar of Christ; about monsignors, archbishops and cardinals; about purgatory; about a celibate clergy; about not eating meat on Friday or during Lent; about making novenas; about infant baptism; etc.? Is not the fact that the Bible is silent on all these outstanding points of the Catholic religion strong circumstantial evidence that the Catholic Church did not make the Bible? that it is not a Catholic book?

@@k11155 "You don't know anything about the early church fathers' writings. study that first." Only a foolish person would make the assumption that I know nothing about the early church fathers. However, here is something that you likely don't know. The early church fathers didn't believe in a mythical trinity. As The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: "The formulation ‘One God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century…. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective” (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14, p. 299).

@@cbooth151 Yeah, you can go on with more failures like it fails to describe Trinity, sola scriptura, and most impirtantly the word "Bible!" Can you find them for me?

@@cbooth151 Can you find the words Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, AnaBaptist, Seven Day Advent in the bible?

YOU SHOULD RATHER STICK TO YOUR WATCHTOWER MASONIC THEOLOGY. GOD BLESS YOU.

Sad no one tried to refute it with arguments.

@@wishyouthebest9222 Please explain.

@@cbooth151 I wished someone would've engaged your points.

@@cbooth151 i believe in the Trinity. I can explain and defend it biblically, traditionally and historically. But if you want to engage in any discussion, what do you believe. Who is God to you??? It seems you wanted to play with young Christians, so answer the question. Who is your God?? Allah or Buddha??❤️😂🤟

Wrong. Never wrote? Please re read the Gospel of Luke . To start

@@iggyantioch There is nothing Luke write in his book about Mary. Show me the verse Luke wrote about her except in chapter one how the Angle Gabriel visit her and what he told her and chapter three which tells us about Mary genology.

Will it make a difference if I do? Feels like you'll move on to the next complaint.

You talk like a Jehovah's witness. They believe the same as you. So Mary is only the mother of Christ Human nature? We never say she is divine. That is your poor understanding. Christ was made incarnate of the Virgin. You're wrong. She was mentioned very many times throughout the old and new testament. Everywhere the "Virgin" is prophecy it's Mary. Constantine?

@@abd-ix5qd Lol. I just woke up And haven't had my coffee yet. Peace . Stay safe. JMJ.

@@nosuchthing8 "But then how do you explain that an eternal being like Jesus to be the offspring of a mortal woman?" Who said the human Jesus was eternal? Eternal beings can't die. Jesus died, but was later restored to life. As Acts 2:32 says: "God raised Jesus from the dead, and we are all witnesses of this." You say the strangest things.

@@nosuchthing8 "If Jesus is not eternal than any claims that Jesus is God have be abandoned." Did Jesus say he was God? Uh, NO, he didn't. Instead, he said: "I am the Son of God." (John 10:36) Jesus also said he was God's messenger. As he said to his opposers: "My message is not my own; it comes from God who sent me." (John 7:16)

@@nosuchthing8 "If you then claim God is a higher being than Jesus then you dont believe in the trinity." God _is_ higher than Jesus. As Jesus said: "I am ascending to MY Father and MY God." (John 20:17) Jesus also said: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28) Oh, and Heb. 2:9 says that while Jesus was human, "he was made "lower than the angels."

@@nosuchthing8 So, you don't believe in the trinity?" Let's see, according to the trinity doctrine, God is "a unity of three [persons]," which is what the word "trinity" means. So, when you said Jesus is God, you're say he's a trinity and that Mary is the mother of the trinity, which, of course, is ridiculous. I don't believe in ridiculous things. So, therefore, I don't believe in the trinity. And for that matter, neither did Jesus or his followers.

@@nosuchthing8 "Remember Christianity is a monotheistic religion. So there is only one God head." Catholics believe the Godhead is triune and that the Father, Son, and holy spirit are co-equal in glory and co-eternal in majesty. So, where in your Bible does it speak of a triune Godhead?

@Tony in Tasmania actually PROTESTANT protes POPE in ROME who produce paper 500 years ago so our SIN CAN FORGIVE if we paid this paper because during this POPE in ROME need money

@Tony in Tasmania only GOD/JESUS can forgive our sin but hunanbeing or father/priest cannot...

@@AntonioMarcos-qe8yc ESV - 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld. Tell me again what this was? Pretty sure it's Jesus giving authority of forgiving sins to Peter who I believe is a man. Or was I missing something?

we don't worship her either, we respected her and love her.

@@TheRealFrank0 but you cannot get forgiveness by selling forgiveness on paper like pope did in Rome...that is the first reason why protestant movement going on 500 years ago

Catholics dont mean what they say. Mother of God is just a title to them, nothing more. The litany of the blessed virgin mary which I used to recite when I was a catholic, is a list of titles for Mary including the pagan godess title " Queen of Heaven" (Jeremiah 44). Weird, how they add titles randomly and create problems to true Christianity.

@@anthonynoronha8442 A little education can be a dangerous thing. Staples doesn’t realize that in Latin “persona” doesn’t mean ‘person.’ It means ‘mask,’ and by way of implication “role, character,” as in “dramatis personae” which is often used as a header for the cast of characters in a stage play. So it’s more like the English word “persona.” The Greek “hypostasis” means ‘to stand under’ and refers to the reality behind the mask (prosopa). So, again we are employing the metaphor of an actor. We’re talking, in some sense, about the unity found between an actor and his role, or perhaps between an author and his characters. (Except, of course, that God’s Creation is not pretend.)

I am a excatholic. Catholics spend more time praying to Mary and dead people ie. Saints than to our Lord Jesus Christ.

The concept of Mother of God is possibly understandable if Jesus was God. He disassociated himself from any such notion. John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. Exercise faith in God; exercise faith ALSO IN ME.

@@tongakhan230 are you Roman Catholic?

A biological / earthly mother is a MOTHER! Because God chose to have a mother in the bubble of space and time (earth), that is why Mary is the Mother of the Lord God. Jesus means GOD SAVES or GOD THE SAVIOR in Hebrew, that is why Mary is the mother of GOD THE SAVIOR. He is also called "IMMANUEL" in the prophesy of Isaiah 7:14 meaning GOD WITH US in Hebrew, this is why Mary is the true mother of God ! God chose to have a mother in the bubble of space and time because God humbled himself to the world, men and angels. PHIL 2:6-8 ; HEB 2:9 PHILIPPIANS 2:6-8 6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. 8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross. HEBREWS 2:9 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour: that, through the grace of God, he might taste death for all. Jesus is God ! The Trinity is inseparable. God chose to have a mother read LUKE 1 ! Are you making Elizabeth a liar when she said that Jesus is His Lord in LUKE 1:43 when she met Mary was about to approach her ? LUKE 1:43 [ And whence is this to me, that THE MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me? ] The Lord Jesus Christ has a mother and He is God, so the Lord God Jesus Christ has a mother. When the Lord Jesus Christ was born by Mary, He is no longer simply Jesus as God, but rather, He became Jesus as God who became Man (JOHN 1:14) or Jesus as God who was manifested in the flesh (1 TIMOTHY 3:16).

@@alfray1072 certainly not Mother in the sense of Mary birthing or coming before the Word i.e The Son Coeternal with the Father.

Of course absolutely none of your response has anything to do with even an attempt to refute my point or Theotokos properly rendered.

God chose to have a mother in the bubble of space and time (earth), that is why Mary is the Mother of the Lord God. Jesus means GOD SAVES or GOD THE SAVIOR in Hebrew, that is why Mary is the mother of GOD THE SAVIOR. He is also called "IMMANUEL" in the prophesy of Isaiah 7:14 meaning GOD WITH US in Hebrew, this is why Mary is the true mother of God ! God chose to have a mother in the bubble of space and time because God humbled himself to the world, men and angels. PHIL 2:6-8 ; HEB 2:9 PHILIPPIANS 2:6-8 6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. 8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross. HEBREWS 2:9 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour: that, through the grace of God, he might taste death for all. Jesus is God ! The Trinity is inseparable. God chose to have a mother read LUKE 1 ! Are you making Elizabeth a liar when she said that Jesus is His Lord in LUKE 1:43 when she met Mary was about to approach her ? LUKE 1:43 [ And whence is this to me, that THE MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me? ] The Lord Jesus Christ has a mother and He is God, so the Lord God Jesus Christ has a mother. When the Lord Jesus Christ was born by Mary, He is no longer simply Jesus as God, but rather, He became Jesus as God who became Man (JOHN 1:14) or Jesus as God who was manifested in the flesh (1 TIMOTHY 3:16).

Your understanding of the title "Mother of God" is wrong.

You can't use circular reasoning to say something is herectical. That defies basic logic. You must accept the Authority of the Catholic Church to accept the inspired nature of the bible. Then you use the inspired nature of the bible to deny the Authority of the Church which gives you the inspired bible!!!! Once you figure that out; then Mary as Mother of God will be easy.

The second person of the trinity, Jesus, is fully God right? And when he incarnated, he was also now fully man and was born of a mother, right? That mother was Mary, right? So since Jesus is fully God and his mother was Mary....then, our Blessed Lady, Mary, is the mother of God!

Luke 1:46 Mary said My heart praises the Lord, 47 my soul is glad because of God my Saviour, 48 for he has remembered me, his lowly servant! From now on all people will call me bless, 49 because of the great things the Mighty God has done for me. His name is holy,

@Mr. Mister I would like to see you explain why this is wrong?

may wanna watch it again and stop and think about it.

@User 3115 Catholicism isn't faith.....it's a conglomeration of false interpretations of the bible that they brainwash the masses with......and they call their misinterpretations faith hogwash

@@dieselcowboy777 You must lie a lot.

@@georgepierson4920 no i tell the truth alot and expose all the catholic lies

@@dieselcowboy777 The early Church had already condemned the Gnostics as a heresy and was well aware of the Nicolaitans. Therefore, trying to claim that the Church is both is a lie.