I dont even think this is full renegade. Its actually Paragon imo. The fact some whiny teen doesnt like the truth and the race that (I know its not a unified opinion) constantly tries to kill Geth and constantly dying because of it cant handle the truth, its not Shepards fault. Truth hurts sometimes.
I mean, you do have the renegade option to rip the admiralty board a new one. That's pretty fun. ... although I suppose this option is *more" renegade in that you're lobbing a grenade right into the middle of a fraught geopolitical situation.... while someone who's lived through it all their life begs you not to... And you cause the fleet to balkanize as a result. Ok, I guess this is the most renegade option.
"The outrage, the politicking, this is going to tear my people apart.All so that I'll be in good standing for our Suicide Mission." Tali'Zorah, breaking the fourth wall since ME2.
I love how that 4th wall meant to say "you are a sick mofo you were NOT supposed to do that. You really think its about the mission? its about WHO AND WHAT YOU DO with yourself and if you do the mission with a crewmate, or a FRIEND."
Yeah I could never do this. While I'm a woman, I always played as MaleShep and romanced Tali. I don't like FemShep. She always sounds like such a bitch.
If you have enough renegade, you get the red option which will clear her without having to betray her. If it's grayed out, even I wouldn't pick that one, and I most always play renegade
That WAS her personality. She was the young girl fighting to save her people. She proves that not everyone can be an intergalactic badass (since practically EVERYONE IS) and that there are people who need someone stronger to guide them and help them. Tali's strong, but at the same time she's delicate. Its kind of funny, since her people's immune system is delicate as well.
In a full renegade playthrough, I can do everything, I can be an arsehole to everybody...except Tali. I do not have it in me, and every single time I go to do it in my mind I'm like "I can do it this time"...but then when the moment comes...nope.
Awwwwwwww! I feel so...so...sad for Tali. I could never do this, but thanks for showing us this, i guess. Though, you did forget to talk to everyone on the other side of the courtroom, like Kal Reeger, Admiral Xen and Veetor, though, o guess if that was a Renegade playthrough, Reeger and Veetor are probably dead.
I once made a full Renegade playthrough but even I couldn't bring myself to be a total jerk toward the people who believed in Shepard all the way, so I helped Wrex on Virmire, always been good toward Tali minus the snark remarks there and there. I been a total dick toward Ashley because fuck that bitch and I admit I've been a douche toward Kaidan but that's because he was being one toward me to begin with.
***** Unfortunately for them, the way they just cavalierly ignore everything Shepard tries to tell them in ME1 makes it hard for me to keep from picking the "Let the bastards burn" option when the time comes.
I'm always tempted to just shoot Kaidan Alenko in Mass Effect 3. He's the one who hid like a coward on Horizon in Mass Effect 2, let you and your feeble teammates fight those ultra-overpowered Husks, Scions and Praetorian on your own, and then sashayed out when the fight was over just to make snide remarks.
Yes, but Ashley is far less bitchy when she sees Shepard. Kaidan acts high and mighty. Plus Ashley has a better voice actor and more of a sense of humour.
Honestly, I hated this mission. I REALLY wanted to tell them the truth..... but if I did that, I might've ended up losing crew in the final mission.....
That's why you take the paragon choice and humiliate the admirals for wasting yours and tali's time, or rally the crowd. Tali doesn't get exiled and she becomes loyal
I also wanted to tell the truth BUT I suspected that I will need Quarian support in the future and having an Admirals and Tali on my side could be benefitial. However, Tali completely lost my loyalty by forcing me to do this (indirectly). From now on she was just a quarian representative on Normandy that I wanna know in order to predict her future movements. Not a friend or anything close. Her father deserves this.
I didn't feel like it was a betrayal. I did the same thing, because my (mostly but not entirely renegade) Shepard was not the kind of person who would value protecting the dead over the living. I honestly got kind of pissed at Tali for how she reacted.
TheGlideIsHere that's because you are an idiot. If you actually valued the living then you would have kept it a secret because giving the evidence fragments the fleet. Giving the evidence is incredibly shortsighted. It means that you can't think ahead and see the ramifications.
@@Quole1234 First off you are completely rebuked for your transgression against the original poster. Other than that, a lot of people tend to believe in order out of laws. Your claim of it being shortsighted is hindsight no one could have unless you've played the game before. It WAS the right thing to do regardless of the outcome. Hopefully over the past couple years you had an experience in a court room.
@@jaredawesomekelsay no it wasn't because if you paid attention it would have obviously lead to war, which is the last thing either faction would have wanted. Shepard even says this in the game.
@@jaredawesomekelsay you know they are considering war and you know presenting them with a potential weapon to use in said war will likely encourage it.
“Just...just don’t talk to me unless you need something.” Thanks for uploading this, because I could NEVER do this to Tali. That line just crushes me!😭😭😭
This is a fine example of Bioware's excellent writing. You can still try to make what you feel is the right decision but it's hard to do. Tali, also, is one of the characters who went through everything with you. It's rather painful to have someone you you start to "feel close to" tell you not to talk to you anymore for doing what you thought was best for her. Especially when it seems you're the only one she believes in. It's like "OUCH, MY HEART".
I don't get why people are against this. Shepard saved her, told her people the truth, what her father did WAS wrong and because of him many of Tali's people were killed. Shepard did the right thing, too bad we can't gain her loyalty after this.
This a 100%. Folks are just mad because they can't bear to see "best girl" being upset. This option locking you out of getting Tali's loyalty for good feels like a scam to me.
She was on a pilgrimage, her lack of an immune system made her cautious both in conversation and action. After spending time with Sheppard she became more bold (becoming an admiral for some in ME3) and took more risks. She was willing to exiled from her people to save the name of her father. She was willing to throw her life away just so her father's name wouldn't go in vain, and so the fleet wouldn't descend into chaos. Best character arc of the series.
"I'm still going to back you, I'll fight by your side. Just don't... Don't talk to me unless you need something" -turns back- That was the final punch in my stomach.
This is horrific! But it's nothing compared to shooting Mordin in the back in ME3. Still, how can anyone even do stuff like this?!? I don't understand!?!?
I am having a major issue while doing the tali's father scene For some reason, during the cutscene, The father body is non-existent, in other words, the body ain't even there. I thought it was the texture mods or my graphic drivers were causing the issue, nope, even cleaned out the .ini file and still no. Did single gpu configuration instead of sli, still same problem. I even cleaned the registry of this game, and still. I even restarted the whole trail process from the very beginning to see if anything would change, nope. I only saw it once. When I went back to view it again, the body ain't there anymore. I even did a complete re-install of the game complete with all dlc's. I tried several different resolutions, still no go, with or without anti-aliasing, still no go. Help is needed please anyone, thanks.
This was a very interesting mission, I was quite conflicted with the choice (although I could've just persuaded them to 'believe' Tali was innocent). Giving the evidence in was the just and right thing, however it was a renegade decision due to its effects on Tali, I found this very interesting and reflects on the morality of the character since it could be argued the renegade decision in this was a paragon one and vice versa... I mean Shepard lying in front of a court to protect Tali, is that a good and just decision?
Elitos Big-Boris Perhaps peace between the two race isn't Timasaurus' interest, which is quite consistent playing as asshole Shepard lol. If I was Renegade Shepard, I would choose Geth over Quarians, since upgraded Geth through Legion's code is stronger than the Quarian Fleet. A dickhead, selfish Shepard would want maximized asset against Reapers when retaking Earth lol. But personally, I'll end up working for peace, because Legion is a baddass, and Tali is one sexy, adorable Quarian :D
rythmjc3 Yup,she can be your favourite Friend/LI on your Crew. Peace is great and you get Both fleets (with one or the other being weaker) to help retake Earth. I would want to make them stop the war with the geth by pointing out what their history was about,and pleading for peace. So great is it not?
+Timasaurus007 Really, the Paragon/Renegade system doesn't work very well when the decision isn't a "harder high road/better for me" choice. It kinda cheapens the importance of the decision itself too. Most egregiously with Legion's loyalty mission (where by the previous dichotomy, they could be switched anyways).
@Ignore14 yeah but when i do a renegade playthrough i tend to select the bottom right option pretty much all the time. it gives you renegade points so its a renegade option to me. the red coloured ones are renegade influence options
92Beyo The guilty were already dead, so what did it matter if the rest of them knew the truth? The entire trial was a farce to begin with, just pointing that out is enough to end it especially since it was a trial about Tali, not Rael.
92Beyo This was for Tali, not law and justice. You do what is needed to clear her name AND keep her father's name in good faith with the rest of the Fleet. If you can't do the paragon speech, then you use the crowd.
This and the renegade genophage solution with Mordin are easily the most bastard worthy moments. Which is is why I'm going to have a run where I take every deplorable action I can. I'll only do two loyalty missions and see how many of my crew I can get killed. But I don't wanna get the Bad Ending. This'll be funny in a dark way.
+luctadeusz I get that, but usually renegade Shepard is known for his/her dishonorable or questionably honorable actions. Telling the truth and proving Tali's innocence, while inconvenient, shouldn't be considered dishonorable.
+luctadeusz Shepard's duty as commander of the Normandy is to protect his crew, especially from unjust criminal charges. Tali's emotions and preferences don't need to be taken into account when making these decisions. Then again, Jack, Zaeed, and Kasumi are part if the crew, so having criminals on board isn't necessarily an issue
+congokong87 Because she doesn't ask Sheppard, to cover for her. She wants Shep to cover for her father, to preserve his memory and keep Flotilla strong and united, even if it means, she'll be exiled from her people for the rest of her life. Self sacrifice for the good of others is also pretty paragon thing to do. Renegade option is relatively shortsighted, It won't do any good, only more harm, but it's quickest and easiest way to make a job done.
1) No it's not. When you want someone to cover for you, you want to dodge the bullet, to get into it's goddamn way. 2) Those were her reasons and I dunno, but any plan that includes "hoe for the best" sound pretty slippery to me. Not to mention. And giving Quarians even more reasons to attack Geth, push the over the edge to Reaper's clutches and almost wiping their entire race off... no short sight here? From moral standpoint... well the trial was politically charged (which all admirals admitted right from start), and in politics, you can make morally sound decision and fuck everything up royally. Moral doesn't necessarily mean "right". So my choices are A) use my friend as a scapegoat B) let them use her father as a scapegoat (which, yeah, he screwed up, but I don't see the reason to drag him and very likely every other researcher on that shit through the mud, because of the mistake that already killed them to fulfill someone's political agenda, just doesn't seem right to me) C) yell at them until they take their bullshit somewhere else. It's not the perfect solution, but still seems as the best one. 3) Ironically, she apologizes for getting angry at Sheppard, it has nothing to do with the decision itself, she acknowledges, then NOT being exiled allows her to counter dumbest decisions of others, but she could do exactly same thing you just yell enough during the trial, so, no. Oh and she is not overall happy, with hers and her father's research causing almost absolute annihilation of Flotilla, she isn't blaming anybody, but I don't think she approves.
congokong87 I wouldn't say it's 100 per cent morally right but neither are other options with their obvious implications. And yes, I guess a lot of people are more inclined to help, forgive and overlook things concerning Tali because who Tali is... somehow I can't blame them. Well I could but I don't see the reason. As I've said this isn't as much about morality as it is about politics and.. well personal loyalty, all options in that situation have more or less grey in it. I like Tali so I honor her wish regarding HER life and HER family but I try to shield her from the worst because she is a friend. If I don't give a damn about here or subscribe to some naïve doctrine about lying being always bad, yeah well I can see those angles but they are still part of the same damn cube. I don't like to presume what other people think at this level, but as far as I am concerned, I generally try to go what I think (or my character would think) is the best solution and I just go with it (and yes first time I've played ME2, I went with cover up and I had no idea what it will do). Meta knowledge is always part of picture and people do like to rationalize but I have my doubts most people go that far. I don't know anyone complaining about Virmire, quit the contrary, but it was so strong scene because it was so rare to loose someone despite the best effort. There were complains about too high character casualties in ME3 because some of them felt like being implemented sole to ad another body on the pile. Mordin and Thane? No problem, it was well handled and felt like good end of their character arc. Legion died because of what?Oh yes someone has to die because we need to be more grimdark and edgy and show this is the war yo. And Catalyst.. well at least for me it wasn't about it having only bad options but just being plain bad. I don't have a problem with characters, even the main one, buying a farm or just going with "worst" option if it seems more likely for them to choose or provides for more interesting story, but I don't think it provides anything on it's own. You can have tragic story where all protagonist survive or snore fest where everybody dies.
yeah that's BS. in my game i actually gave what Tali wanted, and cover up for her (and her father's) BS... funny... she love me for it... but I despise her for it.
Haha. I enjoyed watching this. I Always took the charm, intimidate or [rally the crowd] options. But if I had to choose between covering or revealing I would definitily do this....
I did this. And I absolutely stand for this decision. Rael Zorah was a brave man. He dared took on a gamble: to beeline for results regardless of risk. Things blew up, he lost. It's a matter of honor that a defeated warrior pay the price for defeat. Like Jacob Taylor said: "You make mistake, you own up to it, even if you keep making them." Truth must not be covered up. Rael must own up to his mistake even in death. As for this is not what Tali wanted? Childish sentiments. Isn't it about time Tali live for herself instead of staying in the comfort of her father's shadows? She's just scared. But the matter is bigger than her selfishness. At this point of game (I haven't met Legion yet) all I know of the Geth is that they are soldiers of the Reapers. Which means war preparation against Geth is a matter of course. But unlike Han Gerrel, I don't want to BS people into following me to war, I want people to follow me fully informed about the score and making fully informed decision. I want people to truly believe in what they're fighting for, and that means telling them the truth. Even if it's ugly. So it's a purge. The fleet could break up and separate. Cowards would flee. Apologists would negotiate with Geth. Whatever. What's left will be few, but the few people who are committed people, who truly believe in the coming war. They are the soldiers I want to lead to victory.
Oh yes, let's protect Rael Zora who was performing experiments in POWs and threatned the safety of the flotilla by disregarding THEIR OWN LAWS. Also left Tali with the political bomb on her hands. But yeah, let's protect A WAR CRIMINAL because Tali will be sad. And for information, every time I have the opportunity I try to make peace between the quarians and the geth in ME3. Let's think a little people.
1) The Geth were not POW. There is no war between the two races at this point in the ME timeline. The only reason you fight geth in the 3rd game is because th Quarians were dumb enough to declare war on the Geth rather than try to resolve this peacefully. 2) This is more than protecting Rael. The information will tear the Quarians apart, or did you not hear Tali say that? 3) This whole trial is just an excuse for the admirals to argue about what to do about the Geth.
viacomsux45 Big difference. Avina is a more advanced Siri. Geth have fully actualized personalities and, by this point, rudimentary emotions (though Legion's are fully developed by ME3). That makes it a war crime.
I mean, telling the truth at a top-level hearing is really fucking important. The Quarian people deserve to know the truth. If they went to war based on a lie, that would be awful. I feel like for this decision, the greater good requires going against Tali’s personal wishes. Also, legal representatives are bound by ethics to BEST defend their clients. Not turning over the evidence like that would probably be malpractice in most modern legal systems.
Because this is TALI'S FEELINGS we're talking about. She trusted Shepard and Shepard just handed the fleet more weapons rather than telling them to try peace.
some of the renegade options are so badass that they're actually funny. i also love the sound effect when you make the intrrupt, it's so fuckin brootal :P
Lol, seeing this vid reminds me of the time I sold that little girl to the cannibals in Fallout 3. Glad I don't have to replay ME to see what happens when I sellout Tali. Anyone know where I can find a complete dialogue/story tree for the entire ME series for all those what-if moments (cause save-load only works for events that happen right away, not for things that get carried over into the next games)? Thanks!
I thought the paragon option was to make sure she stayed. At least, that's what happened when I used my paragon dialogue option at the end of the mission.
