This scene also gives us hints as to why Gerri and Carolina aren't on the kill list. Shiv calls Carolina good and solid and then adds later that Gerri is very good with situations such as Mattson's "Ebba" situation (regardless of it being a tru situation or not)
Matsson is not lying, the whole thesis of the show is that these rich and powerful figures are incompetent. It's been established already that Matsson is a bit of a weirdo, him admitting that to Shiv on coke makes sense
I like to think he's making the whole thing up, but he doesn't put Gerri on the kill list and it's probably bc Shiv says "Gerri can help with this." But he's definitely also playing her-- he uses this "advice"-- a bump more-- to close the deal. Until Kendall spikes it next episode, of course.
@@SuperRobertoClemente He totally is. Matsson is playing up the weirdo part (not to say he isn't one) but he's a killer when it comes to business. In that sense, he's the son that Logan wishes he had but never did.
Agreed 110% This isn't that kind of show The problem is that many or most of the audience members are actually smarter and more mature than the characters, and in trying to stay a step ahead are actually taking a step too far. These characters aren't as smart as they think they are, nor are they as smart as WE think they are.
@@PrestigeLearning It's starting to look like past sins are going to catch up with all of them: Ken making up projected numbers for the launch, Shiv's dirty dealing with Tom and her brothers, Rome's sexual harassment of Gerri. I can't see how any one of them actually wins this thing.
He isn't the situation is alluded to when Lukas shows up for the pre-election party. Bullying her, saying he'd love to fire her but he can't because of a "situation"@@SuperRobertoClemente
I know he’s playing her but the way he said “I like you, you’re cool” was kinda adorable in a funny way lol like a schoolboy telling a girl on the playground
A Skarsgard going on a depraved confessional monologue in a swank Nordic home wearing a black turtleneck? No one told me I was watching Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.
Since meeting Logan at the end of season 3, I've seen Mattson as a "Succession Dracula." (Blood bricks and all). This was Shiv basically getting seduced at Dracula's mansion.
It took me a second to grasp what he meant. Looks like when they were together they had some inside joke along the lines of "if we break up you better not start sending me your blood" and then he went and fucking did it for real.
Oh it will be so interesting to see how this info comes into play. It's clear from this episode that the three siblings would work so well together as a trio. Hopefully they figure that out before it's too late.
@@Hatem_Mo Maybe. But the ones that are not in the killing list are Carolina and Jerry, who Shiv recomended in this chat. So, maybe this is not so invented.
@@Hatem_Mo Matsson is coked up dude, Shiv has nothing in the game. Matsson is stupid enough to bring up her dad and her marriage when those are the exact things that put Shiv on her guard.
@@heathl111 they weren’t on the kill list to make shiv feel a sense of accomplishment, he’s playing her like a fiddle. He also didn’t put Tom on the list even though she didn’t give any recommendation for him at all just said they’re breaking up. Matsson doesn’t actually care about any of those employees, the list is just a tactical move to manipulate people like shiv. He’s appealing to her emotions and her sense to be needed, she did literally nothing this episode except be puppeted by Matsson.
@@nicholassmieleski9710 ok but the two main throughts from fans right now is this is a shiv boss moment or a mattison is a serious boy. I don’t feel like they can be both, either he playing shiv or shiv manipulated him
@@jackashmore it *is* possible they're manipulating each other. I believe the blood story, but also think he told her as a loyalty test. She in turn told him what he wanted to hear, so as not to appear as the judgey woman who can't take a "joke"
i really don't believe he's playing Shiv, he's never been shown to be savvy, he's always been portrayed as nihilistic and chaotic. theres a distinct difference between creating an elaborate experiment with rats and poking a dying cat with a stick. what Mattson is doing is very likely the latter. i think in general the people who believe Mattson is some sort of mastermind are the same types of people who likely defend irl billionaire and legitimately think they've earned or worked for their fortunes. its funny that Mattson is so similar to Elon that fans of the show start actually believing his fictional mystique the same way people do with Musk. i think if anything he's just going to get bored and find some way to fuck with Shiv, she's gonna realize he's fucking nuts, and chaos will ensue because thats what his character has represented from the moment he first appeared in this story. so yeah i believe his story and i dont think he's playing Shiv, i think he's genuinely trying to get a sense of how a leak of that would be perceived in American media. i also think he's doing that thing a lot of weird, pathetic men do which is treat all women like free therapists. its a strange but all too real thing how even the biggest 4chan incels, when met face to face with a real woman and not a pornstar, they just melt into weird little blabbermouths, going on and on about their weird problems.
Wow, great take. I sometimes wondered whether what makes them do this is a me thing or a psychologist thing or something else, and now it makes a lot of sense that it's a women thing. =D
I disagree. Everything we know about Mattson thus far characterizes him as a savvy manipulator and him sharing this information would potentially damage the deal. That would go against his intentions in acquiring Waystar. This was a play to test Shiv's loyalties and have an insider sharing information while the deal is finalizing. Mattson understands the power of information, and he is using Shiv as a means to an end, that end is closing the deal.
@@jonathandelapaz6436 bro. the guy was posting bitmoji thirst traps that were getting him into trouble with the sec just a few weeks before this. if he was lying for her trust, he would have just told a *normal* sexual harrassment story. the dracula shit gives him absolutely no benefit whatsoever. why would he even want the *rumor* of that going around? shiv was already in favor of the buyout. he didn't need her support for any reason. he's just out of his mind lmao
It's real. The situation is alluded to when Lukas shows up for the pre-election party. Bullying her, that being Ebba, saying he'd love to fire her but he can't because of a "situation" @@jonathandelapaz6436
The thing that I always see in Shiv is she is always manipulated with the slightest bit of attention or validation I get the daddy issues but this is going on the third time on the show she use to be a political adviser I’d think she would be a pro and treading the mind game waters
She IS a mastermind. Have you been watching the show? She works in the shadows of her father and brothers. As unfortunate as that is, she actually does it very well. If you need examples: finessing Matsson as shown here, getting the deal with Pierce, getting the cruise victim to back down, letting Logan appoint Rhea as cruises scapegoat.
@@widowswail888 not at all, she acts on impulses and was only successful because she enjoyed her daddies favor for a while. Kendall is the only competent Logan replacement. Btw she is the one getting finessed by Matttson
IMHO! What a master manipulation on behalf of Mattson 1) a show of vulnerability, confiding about screwup (potentially a lie) 2) brute force flattery - explicitly comparing Shiv to Logan He has her in his pocket
He has all of them in his pocket. This is the same episode where Roman outright admitted to not wanting to sell, which led Matsson to go over him and Ken's head with a higher offer
@@iR3vil4te in every way possible, he stroked her ego by making her think she gave great business advice when really she said nothing that a 10 year old couldn’t have thought of. He even mocked her for saying “give more money” because he was going to do that anyway even if he had never talked to her. He even confided a BS blood brick story to her to make her feel like a part of his inner circle, all to make her feel wanted so that she can become his puppet as evidenced by her taking the photo of the brothers for him in the end. He’s the new Logan, playing with her emotions for his own personal gain, then will toss her aside when he no longer has use for her.
@@uhuhuh1966 she gave nothing away…she wanted the deal, and she outplayed her stupid brothers who tried to make dumb moves without her. But sure, she ‘got played’…
@@iR3vil4te did you even read what I wrote? Lol she didn’t make ANY plays, she didn’t say a single thing that Matsson didn’t already know and then endeared herself to the devil. The deal would’ve happened even if they had never talked. If anything Roman’s dumb tirade sealed the deal even more because it motivated Matsson to stop at no offer.
I wonder if he's autistic, or has antisocial personality disorder, or ADHD or something. He seems to be genuinely shocked and befuddled people have been judging him for sending a girl he used to date bricks of his blood. He says he has "difficulty seeing the angles on people"
Definitely seems to have ASPD because it’s coming across in his almost sadistic manipulative tactics for negotiating. But since they are trying to model him after Elon, they will play the quirky brilliant nerd autistic vibe.
@@steffnic13 the sadism could be almost anything to me, though aspd is high on my guess list. but what bothers me more is he IS SURPRISED AT PEOPLE'S REACTIONS. i think even autistic people who have major reasoning issues and need a carer would figure that out after 2-3 bad reactions.
Bullshit, I call bullshit, there's no way someone will reveal a dark secret to a business opponent after an hour or less, all the fine lawyers in the world and he ask Shiv for tips about this thing? No
You'd be surprised how easy it is to get someone talking when they're either drunk or high. Matsson appears to be both. Also he like Shiv as it seems. It's different to blur the line when you're fucked up. Trust me, people will go on and on when their loose.
I know its a really toxic relationship and that she treated Tom badly but her saying “I broke his heart, he broke mine” about Tom broke my heart too, for both of them. That took a level of self awareness that she rarely exhibits. There was definitely guilt there too.
@@EmpressoftheflamesHer siding with Matson for her own benefits is one thing but Sending pics of her brothers to Matson knowing that they are down low is just pure sadistic. Turn the tables and you would have called her brothers creep/pathetic for doing what she did.
@@iside2373 & shiv is an emotionally abusive bully with zero principles & internalised mysoginy to the point where im almost certain she hates women more than either Rom or Logan.
@@TheAsymmetrical your point is ? I was responding to a comment saying that she was sadistic for sending pics of her brother when character of the show have done worse but no one called them sadistic lol
Mattson secret is Fugazi!! he played with her so badddddd. Mattson is a fucking psychopath, smarter even more ruthless than Logan IMO. He's manipulating her, I think, untill the finale.
Completely irrelavant to this scene, but Alex Scarsgard is so dreamy. There is one scene in this episode where he is taking off his jacket and his shirt comes off a bit and I could not pay attention to the dialogues for a full minute. And when he says, "I like you," He looks so cute!!
Matsson told Shiv exactly what she wanted to hear and she fell into his trap. This felt like a repeat of Logan's mind game with Shiv in Season 2. The blood brick story seems like a bunch of BS. Someone like him would never be stupid enough to divulge that kind of dirt to an opponent.
@@uhuhuh1966 I swear dude wtf all gave off vibes I mean when you meet someone especially executives you try to be sweet as possible ebba looked uncomfortable tho around Matsson
@@sagarthegreatable none of Matsson’s people were sweet lol they all think they’re better than everyone at Waystar. But yeah there’s another reason Ebba looked uncomfortable and Matsson spun that into this fabricated blood story, OR Ebba purposefully acted that way to lend credence to this story and they planned that out beforehand. She’s part of *his* team, think of all the planning Logan did with his people before going into meetings and how everyone should act to manipulate the deals in their favor, Matsson does the exact same thing with his team. He seems just as in control of everything as Logan did.
If his blood story is not some BS to outmaneuver Shiv, then Matsson is not a serious person. I wonder if Makin and Republicans might not come into play also and throw a wrench in a sale of a US media company to a foreign company. Especially a news corporation that in the past has been very favorable to them.
"i cant BELIEVE shiv is such a STOOPID WOMMIN she fell for mattsons CLEARLY RIDICULOUS tale so EASILYMANIPULATED" so we're all just gonna pretend elon musk doesn't exist
I think the fact that she didn't react with outright horror, unlike probably everyone else who knows about this story, was evidence somehow to him that she could "take a joke".
Mattson was right when he called the Roy children a tribute band. Shiv should know exactly what Mattson is doing here, but she thinks too highly of herself. I could believe the blood story is real, Mattson is a sadist. Just like with Nan and her act to get a higher price. The children paid almost double what their father offered for Peirce. They should have known because Nan's actions were different from her headache/"fretting" over a bidding war. A bidding war she started. The Roy children are like pay $8 a mth for a blue check. They have the credentials without having the credentialing.
He called them a tribute band as an insult, not a real assessment. Everyone is drooling over Matsson like he's completely in control, but his first scene this season was panic calling Kendall because he heard whispers of Sandi and Stewy meeting them. He was afraid of the deal not going through. If he's in control, why does he have to call a shareholder with no voting power? That play made Ken change his mind on sticking with the deal. The kids are not the only people in this show capable of making bad decisions. Matsson should have listened to his team when they said not to call.
@@coachbarnin fact that was his move last season. first not wanting to talk to Logan, and from his conversation with Roman everything seemed like he was similar to the Vaulter boys. He in his own thing, he doesn't like Waystar or the Roys. and suddenly, the tweet and then an offer too specific to be something improvised. Here everything looks the same. first he looks desperate or annoyed and then he looks comfortable. why's that? what did we miss, because now he had no problem raising the price. I think that is why many believe that he is in control, because we already saw the same game plan last season.
There is a scene before this one where they are talking in an afternoon party or something. I need to know the background music from that scene, but I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Drinking and taking lines. Though, we never saw her snort the coke. But she is 20 weeks and did an amnio. That’s not someone looking to abort. She was making sure the baby was OK.
I noticed that too. By not drinking alcohol, the others might notice and suspect she is pregnant, and Shiv is keeping the news secret. However why go thru with the pregnancy but jeopardize baby's health with hard liquor? As for the coke, we did not see her snort it... so hopefully she was just playing around to appear like she was going along with Matsson.
Did you guys see how she didn't say much? She only talked about Her marriage with Tom, sharing a vulnerability which in return he unconsciously decided to share his. I actually think the story is real based on the body language he has with Ebba (She looks uncomfortable around him)
@@Spaced92 playing someone doesn’t automatically mean you have something on them, he’s appealing to her desires, saying everything she wants to hear and endearing himself to her. That’s how he’s playing her
It's funny cause when matsson is doing bumps they take the camera away but you can hear it. But when it's shivs turn the camera is away but you cant hear it. So I don't think she did.
They didn't show her taking a bump, which of course was intentional. This show doesn't do anything by accident. She knows she's pregnant, so cocaine isn't advised.
It was two fingers of whiskey, you can easily fake sip that as- unless your a drunk a whiskey rocks is supposed to take you a bit to finish. @@gregb6334
@@TalkAsSoftAsChalk I’m not sure about the mastermind business, but a complete idiot why? she seems to be going with the flow, as long as it gets the deal done, the people she mentions don’t get fired, at least for now. mattson may be playing her, but don’t think she has fallen for it. not yet, at least. i feel like kendall and roman were more bumbling around than shiv was. and being heavy footed about it, too. especially ken.
@@MKL951 because Matsson is playing her like a fiddle, appealing to her emotions so he has her in his pocket to use her to screw the brothers over. She’s lost her autonomy to him (eventually) that’s why she’s an idiot, she doesn’t even realize she’s becoming his puppet
@@monicaalexandru9638 shiv literally did NOTHING this episode, at least Ken & Roman made a decision and then made motivated moves to make that decision happen. Shiv literally sat around and spoke without thinking. Do you seriously think Matsson kept Gerri & Carolina because he truly thinks they’re valuable because Shiv said so? Hell no, he just kept them to make Shiv feel a sense of accomplishment, he’s appealing to her emotions and desires to make her his puppet to use against her brothers. And she doesn’t even see that. Yeah we know Gerri & Carolina *are* actually competent but Matsson couldn’t care less about any of those employees, it’s all calculated power moves to manipulate people just like Logan always did. Shiv gave him the most basic…elementary business advice, “stop sending your blood to people,” “Gerri is a good lawyer for PR,” “give them more money and the deal will go through,” Matsson even made fun of her for that last one. And yet in response to all of that he says “you remind me of Logan” ???? He’s playing her like a fiddle, and she has no idea what’s going on, with anyone. Her sending Matsson the photo of her brothers shows she has fallen for it hook line & sinker.
