You mentioned an Elray(sp?) Hendrickson who is reading the Book of Mormon as a peace narrative. This is something my husband and I have been working on for a few years now. Could you provide more information on this or how we can get in contact with him?
John's reading of Jacob 5 is refreshing, I appreciate him sharing that. I think it's a sign of a good parable if it has lots of possibilities of interpretation at different scales, which I've found it does. I agree with you that the Book of Mormon is problematic, but I think there are a few chapters that are real gems. Helaman 5 is my personal favorite. I also think the anit-christs Sherem, Nehor, and Korihor do a good job summarizing heresies that will probably always confront Christians. (My chapter references are for the LDS edition of the Book of Mormon by the way).
Your approach to Scripture of every sort I all-encompassing and, I think, profound, applicable to every human effort in religion. I used to be a Catholic - now I’m more of an atheist Platonist (!) - and one of my favorite books from my religious period (recommended by an outstanding English teacher in a public high school!) was Cardinal John Henry Newman’s The Development of Christian Doctrine, very sensible and prophetic. I think you bring a modern take to his underlying thesis - that “God” does not stop communicating with the human spirit, that revelation never stops but rather evolves. Thank you so much for your generous approach to religious topics - it’s helping me take some of the edge off my prejudice against the beliefs I was raised in.👍😄
I personally love the Book of Mormon, and use it daily. I view it as Inspired mythology and sacred scripture. There are times in Community of Christ when as someone who loves the BOM I feel marginalized in the church, and sometimes feel like I no longer have a spiritual home there. But some of that is due to the fact I now live in a area with the nearest community of christ congregation is over a hour away and they tend to be a bit hostile. I currently attend a affirming United Methodist church with my husband, and also practice Earth-Based Spirituality. (So not a Traditional Restoration believer in the least lol). I try to stay connected to the church where I can and try to live out our Enduring principles. But I do think community of christ need to do better to include many of my Traditional Restoration believer and those of use who still find great inspiration in our Restoration scriptures and story.
@@Sirach144 i don't believe that adam,eve, Abraham, or Moses where actually people either, there literary characters. The story is inspired they have spiritual truths within them. You don't have to view scripture as literally true for it to be inspired. God uses human Vessels to write scripture, there sacred stories that can help guide us and teach us sacred truth. Mythology is not a lie, it a sacred story of culture and religion, and can have great value when understood in proper context.
@@Sirach144you are misunderstanding the role of truth and reality and myth. What is is true and what is real aren't the same things. They are correlated, but not synonyms. What is real relates to mundane materiality. What is true is a function of worldview. One deals with matter and the other concepts. A dream can be true, but not real. An object can be real, but not true. Like the post-modern invention of biblical literalism and protestant disparaging of myth as a concept.
@@SitRepful no. I understand. I don’t need a self proclaimed false prophet tell me anything. If I can to you with the story that Joseph did you’d think I was crazy.
THANK YOU for providing a perspective and acknowledgment of ongoing systematic racism band sexism and cultural problems w our practices. This goes a long way toward reconciling feelings I have, and can o ok y imagine that other experience, when dealing w issues that others pretend do not exist.
How does the CoC continue to exist when they proclaim that the book upon which the church is founded and its author are false? If the foundation is rotten, how can the structure above be any less rotten/false? Baptized at eight, abandoned by the CoC at 59. My heart is broken for all of us who were deceived.
What I hear in all this discussion of using Holy Books that aren't historically accurate, and are clearly man made, to create sermons to teach better ways to live. If there is no divinity to any of these Books, and I think the historical record says there isn't, then you can just as easily preach sermons from Star Wars, or Star Trek, or The Avengers, or pretty much any other work of Fiction you are inspired by.
All Scriptue is inspired of God and useful . . .. I paraphrase. What, exactly, is "scripture?" Who decides? I read passages from The Scottish Play and learn moral and life lessons just as much as from The Sermon on the Mount. They both, then, meet my concept of Scripture.
I cannot understand how you can treat the Book of Mormon as scripture. The books of the Bible have complex histories but I do not think any of their authors knew or thought they were ‘false’ within their understanding. For example, the people who authored the Christmas stories thought those stories to be ‘true’ - as they fulfilled the OT prophecies. The same cannot be said of the Book of Mormon - whether the fraud was ‘pious’ or ‘impious’, Joseph Smith knew it to be his own composition.
I've watched many of his videos- out of all the "Theological types" I've heard lecture on the Bible- I've never heard anyone discredit the Biblical scriptures while somehow NOT acknowledging the illegitimate clips and pastings of the Mormon texts.
Anthropologist Dr Thomas Murphy has researched and found some Native American myths/ stories that are very similar to some of the Lamanite stories in the Book of Mormon. I remember bits about two stories. One where, if I remember right, some Native Americans were taught about Christianity and fainted and a member of their tribe who was already Christian intervened between the missionaries and the other people. And another where two Native American nations had a massive battle. It would be so interesting to have a companion to the Book of Mormon that has the original stories/ texts/ sermons, etc that some of these stories came from where they're known or even that demarks that this or that section were likely based on x, y, z where the original info isn't available. Also a little biographical info on people who some of the characters are based on would be insightful and could also be inspiring. Dr Thomas Murphy talked about these stories and people on which some of the characters were based on Mormon Stories about 6 months ago in episodes 1645-47.
Wrong Church. You are thinking of the LDS Church, based in Salt Lake City. This is Community of Christ. Edit: To clarify, Community of Christ never practiced these things.
@@TrevorThatBandanaGuy Well, no. Distinctions matter, and we are talking about two distinct religious traditions here. Yes, they were both founded by the same man, but they've evolved along completely different paths. And while it does not make the CoC "right", they didn't engage in the "masonic stuff", nor did they engage in polygamy for that matter. Again, distinctions matter, especially in an academic sense.
@@noahheninger it does not matter what the distinctions are if they're founded by the same man and that man has been already proven that everything he did was wrong and the book of Mormon which is the foundation of this religion you're talking about and the Bible. It does not matter you can call yourself the Church of he would Packard and a blow up doll and if your foundation is still the book of Mormon and the Bible you would still be wrong. Historians have already debunked and proven that the Bible and the book of Mormon are false books that have no truth to them. So when you're foundation is based off of nothing which means anything after that is nothing.
John, I'm not sure I agree with your premises about how the BoM can be useful as scripture. You and I know that we can often find great truth is works of fiction, but does that mean those works can be taken as inspired works as if from god? I understand your need for "COMMUNITY," but it seems to that your community is building a bridge too far. Thanks again for sharing, my bright friend. Barry
Yes, Mormonism is ridiculous... but it's only a little bit more ridiculous than any other religion. I see comments here poking fun, but if you believe in jesus, the flood, the creation story, etc., then you are just as deserving of ridicule.
@@davidjanbaz7728 then you clearly haven't done your research. Because the Bible has just as many issues and has been picked apart just like the book of Mormon and they have both not met their burden of proof
@@ChristianRescue Pride isn't a sin. Sin isn't even a real thing, so get off your horse. Just as one example (of which there are many), the "great flood" and the Noah story absolutely 100% did not happen. There is solid geological evidence that disproves it, but you don't have to look past the fact that the animals he "saved" were somehow magically redistributed to their homes all over the world. Not having to answer to a pretend authority figure is very liberating, and many of us are better people and better members of society by being self-reliant and doing good for its own sake.
I have listened to many lectures of his and think pursuing truth through a synthesis of both personal contemplation, spiritual seeking, and scientific disciplines lead to the highest level of understanding.
@mattmetcalf559 I think it also takes a higher degree of faith frankly. I'm LDS and try to understand what is actually true, what are teachings, and what we can take from it. Then still believe, that's faith.
I couldn't stomach his white guilt apology. Bro no other nation apologized to land warred over. All nations fought for land. It's what they did. Stop apologizing.
All land is stolen and fought for. Stop making it seem like it's some horrible thing. Every nation did it. The natives did it. If you want to fix up the dig up the dead the bodies of those who did it. If not move the hell on. We can't apologize for what we weren't here for. Love the hell on.
2 Timothy 3:16-17... 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. Where in the fuck are you pulling your quote? at 16:00 Edit: I see now its your church's statement. But why then do you quote 2 Timothy?
Did Mr. Hamer just equate Joseph Smith’s fraudulent fiction aka The Book of Mormon with the Bible aka the most historically attested documents in ancient history??
Way too long and irrelevant discussion on indigenous issues at first. I just went up to the computer to skip to the next video when you started discussing the actual topic. The whole things made me cringe. YOu are not to blame for any of the Mormon potential crimes of the past and don't need to apologise. I'm not in North America and I haven't believed the BoM was historical since childhood -- and I too have nothing to apologise to indigenous Canadians for. Everyone already heard about the abusive boarding schools. The rest of the talk was interesting though.
