Mega Edition: Examining a Sam Allberry Podcast 

As someone who struggles with these desires and seeks to put them to death and hates the blameshifting and pursuit of victimhood that are endemic to the Revoice camp, I want to say this breakdown has been incredibly helpful and the Holy Spirit was speaking scriptures to me that did not come out of your mouth. Your discernment is real and so much appreciated.

According to Sam’s theology, I can desire women who aren’t my wife and as long as I don’t act I’m good. That’s evil, and God has delivered me from it years ago. If I entertain those thoughts I sin, period.

This makes me think of a sermon illustration I heard years ago: A man was praying with his pastor at the altar. He prayed a prayer the pastor had heard many times before. “Lord, take the cobwebs out of my life.” Just as he said this the pastor interrupted, “Kill the spider, Lord.” Many times we ask the Lord to forgive us of some sin, yet we leave the source of temptation in our life.

Jon it was creepy as heck what he said. Your very generous to this man. Nothing he has said or done indicates an openess to marriage. He is doing his best to ensure any Christian woman would run the other way.

Have you heard of Becket Cook? You should check him out. He used to be gay but he’s not anymore and he’s a Christian.

1:00:37 - 1:03:04 Really needed this part. Its an actual Godsend. Thanks for saying it. Thank God for this.

What you said at the end about those who didn’t get the family etc they desired and that we should weep and comfort them - not blame others or the church. Something is missing and it hurts. I’ve known this was the reality but you’re the first I’ve heard speak to this with honesty, gentleness and sincere caring. Thank you.

I’m a little depressed now after watching this. I really do think we all need to create a spam folder for all the disordered, depressing, obsessive, sexual and hopeless thoughts and temptations we are bombarded with. It might be helpful for struggling folks to know at the end of the day these are only thoughts. Just like spam is just spam. They are designed to trick us. My heart goes out to all the people who have been rejected, bullied, or have experienced trauma and struggle with intrusive, sinful or obsessive thoughts. On a side note, I celebrate my 8th anniversary with my wife tomorrow, but I was single and struggling for a long time in the church. It was horrible. I felt terribly misunderstood by people. I often left more lonely leaving on Sunday morning than when I came in. Sometimes people don’t understand or empathize with this until their spouse dies or leaves them. I just want to say also, I’ve been persecuted in another country for my faith by my own people where terrorism is rampant, and though it is scary and awful, being single in the church and struggling with intrusive thoughts and depression is almost equally as tormenting and much more lonely because people blame you for your problems.

Jon, I fully agree with your analysis throughout the interview, and your conclusions. Not finding much hope here, but unfortunately many distortions, which are dangerous.

50:28 I've been consistently in church/church culture since I was saved in the mid-80s. I have NEVER seen or heard any church, Christian ministry, or individual Christian say anything remotely like , "it's fine to sleep around, it's fine to be on your fourth or fifth marriage." That's baloney. If that's the kind of "church" he's been in, he needs to find a real church!

I'm straight and I thought I would be married by 30 and it didn't happen. I thought I'd have a wife by 40 and I'm still single and pray for a wife everyday. You can't give God a deadline.

Jon, thank you for articulating concern about Sam Allberry’s approach. It would not be such a concern if Allberry weren’t out writing books, speaking, and influencing, and, thus, lulling and misleading unwitting followers of Jesus into a static place of non-growth. Weakness is rife in our culture; followers of Jesus need to be challenged to persevere through difficulty and gain strength rather than give up when it’s hard. I’m glad Sam Allberry has moved from identifying himself as “gay” and now refers to being “same sex attracted”, a more accurate descriptor of his struggle. It is a struggle (all followers of Jesus have them), and Sam Allberry seems to have resigned to living in defeat with his. As you point out, there’s no fight, no hope, no expectation that Jesus or Holy Spirit will accomplish change in his heart such that he might one day be married to a woman, or, at minimum, more fulfilled in his gender and relationships as a single man. You point out rightly that he is gentle and receptive, and the only time he shows fire is for “cranky” conservatives, especially those who express concern at advancing disorder in the culture and compromise in the church, and who call for repenting and believing in Jesus who saves, heals and delivers. Allberry would do well to transfer some of that fire to taking initiative and wholeheartedly investing in his sanctification/transformation. A war-like posture would allow him to fight his personal battle well and fully engage with life; this would also enhance his masculinity. Allberry seems to be heavily invested in his same-sex attraction, considering it something too precious and ingrained to change, and not willing to invest time, energy and work in dealing with contributing factors underlying his same-sex attraction. Investing in his sanctification/transformation would increase his capacity for healthy relating with other men and with women. Allberry doesn’t promote the transformative power of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit to change a person at core. We who grapple with unwanted SSA or gender confusion are called to pursue the “more” Jesus has for us (fulfillment and joy in our gender and relationships), whether single or married, regardless of the specific outcome, and not settle for less. Those who persevere, in hope, over time, will see real and substantive change. After living from ages 24 to 40 homosexually, gender confused and settling for a limiting gay identity, my well-being improved significantly - with the help of transformational ministry, change-allowing therapy and other tools-- as I learned to trust, discover and embrace my natural masculinity, experience grace, and appreciate natural femininity in women. I needed to grow as a man; to grapple with underlying issues, unmet needs, pain, insecurities, sin patterns and distorted thinking in my life; and, thus, to increase my capacity for healthy relating. I know this to be true for many other followers of Jesus. As Andrew Rodriguez points out, “Rewards come as we invest time, energy and work....However, some don’t want to put in the work of self-examination, accountability, confession, and opening those parts of ourselves requiring healing touch from Holy Spirit and needing to be exposed for the shame attached to those experiences to be dissolved.” Allberry would benefit from taking an assertive approach with his sanctification/transformation and coming up with a concrete plan of action. There are many tools available for sanctification/transformation, including change-allowing therapy and transformation ministries; some helpful resources can be found on the web site of Restored Hope Network. (John 10:10; Luke 9:23-24; Matt. 10:38-39; Matt. 7:13-14; 2 Cor. 5:17; 1 Cor. 6:20; Rom. 12:1-2; Eph. 4:22-24; Rom. 13:13-14; 1 John 1:9; Prov. 3:5-6)

Fantastic episode Jon, thanks for taking the time to dissect this deeply.

The arguments of Sam Allberry and all of the apologists of compromise are grounded in Genesis 3: “Did God really say?” Treating unequivocal statements in scripture as equivocal is merely the first step in the “question/contradict/replace” progression of spiritual rebellion.

One thing I appreciate about Sam is he tipped me off to Ravi Zacharias being rotten. Once RZIM platformed him, I knew they were no good.

Jon, brother, my goodness the Lord has given you discernment. You really cut to the heart of issues, in this case Sam imposing HIS deadline on God. The Fear of God is just missing from most Christian leaders, imposing their feelings on their hermeneutic. And the fruit: not telling a "soul". There is no true repentance and brokenness. It's an attempt to maintain self, rather than dying to self.

I'm just starting this video, so maybe it will be clarified later, but I don't know what apologists/apologetics ministries have been weak on this issue. Stand to Reason (Greg Koukl), James White, Apologia Church (not specifically an apologetics ministry but heavily into apologetics) - all are standing strong. Let's pray they continue!

Those quiet, whispery voices (especially from MEN) grate on me like nails on a chalkboard. SPEAK UP! 56:43 This is all so confusing and sad. He seems to have given up on the idea that God can ever change him. He seems to have accepted, "I am homosexual. This is who I am. These desires will never change." And these other men are going along with these assumptions. Why are they treating him like a victim or a martyr? He's portraying himself and they are also portraying him as this poor man who has these desires that will never be fulfilled, so he will never have a family. They're all implying and accepting that these desires are not only permanent, but that they are the foundation of his identity. This is sad. God CAN and does change us.

I do appreciate your compassion at the end. It's very rare to see. Most of the time people, especially men, are blamed for being single. (Because they are the "pursuers", I guess. I'm glad I'm not a man with that sort of pressure/burden on me!) But yeah, life is just hard sometimes. God sometimes does not give us the good things we want. People have to accept that reality. And, yes, some days the only thing that keeps me going is remembering that Jesus was single and childless!

This was such a spot on examination of this discussion. Jon is on the mark again on this one. Providing clarity and a biblical perspective to a very challenging subject in your day. Thank you again Jon.. in such confusing times, we NEED this kind of clarity. !!!

On the bridegroom segment: if Sam were a girl saying this, would this be categorized as the "Jesus is my boyfriend" theology?

Excellent points!

The elites want a justification for sin. They don't want to hear from those who have come out of the homosexual lifestyle because they can continue to seek approval of the world.

01:00:00 The sexual aspect isn't just part of the package; it's the defining part. It's called homoSEXuality, not homoAFFECTIONality.

Harsh but necessary truth: Sin is a choice. Regardless of what our weaknesses are, when temptation knocks at the door, we all have a choice to say yes or no. We have to own those choices. This thing of "waiting for God to take it away" is an excuse to keep sinning until God overrides our free will and makes the choice for us. It doesn't work that way. We are responsible for our choices. Also, a fair question is why is a greater degree of sensitivity required today on these topics as opposed to generations ago? It's not enough to love what God loves. We also have to hate what God hates, and with a passion. Great podcast brother! God bless!

Well aside from that sexual desires of homosexuality this man doesn't sound like a man. He sounds feminine in his victimology. And the other man asking him questions, is treating him like he's fragile. It's just so backwards. It doesn't sound like manly power under control but fear that you might say the wrong thing and offend someone.

Having come out of homosexuality years ago, I have problems with Sam Alberry, the language he uses however poetic it may be masks a deeper theology that is contrary to scripture. I’m very familiar with Nate Collins and some of the ones in the Revoice camp. Jesus CAN and DOES set the captive free, IF one is yielded FULLY to the Lordship of Jesus Christ over everything.

The whispers are maddening! NPR should not be a model for podcasts

Hey Jon, if you have time, I'd really benefit from a discussion of the Doug Wilson discussion that's happening on twitter right now. Many are calling out his views on Federal Vision, but I'm not really up to speed on what that entails. If anyone knows of any good resources for understanding this, I'd appreciate it

-British accents are beginning to rub me the wrong way after growing up as a huge fan of Monty Python, etc -I’m going to list people like paul david trip and phil vischer as my listed allergies

I’m normal and thought I’d be married by 23. I’ll be patient, though. Why don’t these weirdos just go away instead of whining on tv? I’m just not interested in revoice stuff anymore.

I agree that in the cultural war, there is need to javelin toughest Leader, and that Church should have clear and strong stand. My big "but" is that in face of a non Christian that is struggling and seek helps, we need more Sam Allbery to be connect to them. we just have to distinguish those "claims to be Christian and give false teaching", we should be very tough with them, but we need to be soft when dealing with people that struggling with sexual sins, we need to encourage them.

On the flipside, all of this stuff with the Alphabet People, the "gender confusion" (rebellion), "transing" kids, etc., there's now even more emphasis on marriage. I uphold marriage. I am on the side of all the arguments that marriage is from God, that kids need 2 parents, etc. But it also makes it even harder for those of us who are single and NOT by any choice of our own. We are now more invisible than ever. Worse than lepers. (Don't even get me started on how closing the churches left singles even more completely alone. No one will acknowledge that. No one. ) The hard fact is that God has not promised marriage to all those who desire it. I am 50+. Unless God does a miracle, I will never get married. Barring a genuine physical miracle, I obviously can't have children at this age. This is not by my choice or by my sin. I went through the wedding season, the baby season, and now my peers are having grandchildren! And here I am, still alone. Life is just hard. But this is an issue that is very seldom addressed even in the best of churches. Forget about talking about it in youth group/college ministries. Who's got the guts to tell a teen/20-something year old person that they may have to be celibate forever and die alone? But they need to hear it because it's reality. Young people need to be prepared that this might be their reality. Are you still willing to follow Jesus? It would cut down on fake conversions, as well because it would force people to count the cost of following Christ. As an aside, I also used to wear a ring (gemstone, not plain wedding band looking one) on my left ring finger. It reminded me that even though I wasn't wanted by any man for marriage, I was still wanted by God. Maybe it's more odd for man to do that. But for me, it was a good reminder. I only stopped wearing it when I lost the ring and haven't been able to afford another.

I’m sorry but I was reminded yesterday of believers & pastors in countries who are being burned & beheaded for the sake of Christ & the Gospel. Sacrifice? I don’t think we have any idea what that means here in America 🧐Soli Deo Gloria

"I don't think you should confess your indwelling sin, you should tell your pastor and maybe an elder or two if you know them well." - Rosaria Butterfield. I'm not sure I'm with you in this one 100% Jon, Sam and the church at large could absolutely have a more perfect or a more correct message for those same sex attracted. That assumes however that they are coming to hear it at all. I'm not promoting a Tim Keller way of burying your beliefs but we are being shouted down everywhere, perhaps a clam "it's not hopeless" or similar statement will cut through the noise. The gospel comes with a house key. You can only expect same sex attracted people to "live like it gets a little better each year" if it does in fact get a little better each year. Is he invited to your house on Christmas? If he is great but I don't think you can say ideally the church knows how to receive these people when they don't, at least most don't.

What in the world is wrong with Paul Tripp? Is he oblivious?

AAAAAHHHH!!! The fist thing l DID when l went to my church was _told the top peeps_ about my wretchedest SIN!! Do l still desire it? YES! Will l stop fighting? NO!

The impression I get from Allberry is pretty simple, he still loves being gay more than Christ. Christians don’t do that. What a pitiful place to be.

I know there are multiple churches ditching Awana this year because he was speaking at their child discipleship forum this year. I think it was last weekend.

Allberry seems overly fond of his assumptions. "Oh I'm gay" "Oh I'm christian now; I'll stumble into having a family and not being gay anymore" "Oh that didn't happen; I'm gay". Seems like he isn't asking as many questions as he should. Especially of God. Matthew 7:7-11, James 1:2-8. Luke 11:5-13. Ask of God with persistence and trust that he will give you good things (not necessarily what you ask for); wisdom in particular. And if you want wisdom you should be practicing and not only asking for it. Not much about plans of action either; like you noted, if you want to get married, why would you wear a wedding ring? Didn't think about that? No questions/consideration/planning, just fond feelings and assumptions? I'm certainly getting that impression. On 45:04 - just to provide a citation, Malachi 1:2-3. Maybe the oddest example to me actually; it's probably elaborated on somewhere in the bible, but I'm not sure why God made his country a wasteland. Was it because he sold his birthright? A final note here; there's a largely neglected aspect of sex, which is the demonstration of our sexual dimorphism - of the difference between the man and the woman. In same-sex, what is being demonstrated?

I think what makes it weird talking about Jesus as the bridegroom pursuing an individual is because the bride is the church, not any of us personally/individually. But I've heard single straight women do this too.

Jon, why not invite Sam, Christopher, Becket on your podcast instead of picking apart other interviews...go to the sources if you truly are interested in this issue. Those would be great interviews. It would be a bit more intellectually honest on your part too.

Sam Alberry is a high church tractarian: Anglo-Catholic. I.e. an Anglo-papist. Anglo-Catholicism is theologically in line with Roman Catholicism in almost exact identical idolatry. Rome also accepts the sexual orientation heresy, btw.

“You shall have no other gods before me”! How is this not dancing before another golden calf? Who has not dealt with temptation? Thank you for speaking on this because when you give Satan a foothold, he will move in. BTW I grew up in Sacramento. I have known people in all kinds of sexual sin. Only those who were reminded that God is God & sin is rebellion against Him. Who is on Sam Albury’s throne?

I find the whole "I'm same-sex attracted, but in a heterosexual marriage" thing to be really odd. To be honest, I think this kind of marriage is actually the best example of The Handmaid's Tale. These people are performing marital duties out of just that: duty. While duty has its place in relationships, the difference between that and true heterosexual marriages is that the latter can experience not just duty, but also joy and fulfillment.

Saying he loves God, is married to Jesus and wearing a wedding ring is Good! I love Jesus and married to Him and I have a ring to show that! all true believers are married to God! we are in a marriage covenant with Him as the Bible clearly says! Even The first church is the bride of Christ the only true church that the Bible speaks of is THE BRIDE OF CHRIST, Body of Christ. Remember one day Jesus is coming for His bride ( us) and she is to be pure and blameless and He will marry us. those of us who are Born again by God's Holy Spirit and follow Jesus Christ alone are the bride of Christ and will be married to Him in Heaven and enjoy His presence forever ( John 1:12-13, Ephesians 5:25-27, Revelation 19:7-9, Revelation 21:2, Isaiah 54:5, Ephesians 5:25 , Revelation 21:9, 2 Corinthians 11:2 , John 3:29, Revelation 21:9-11 , Isaiah 62:5 , Matthew 25:1-46, Ephesians 5:27, Mark 2:19-20, Matthew 25:1-18, 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 , Hosea 2:16-23 , Jeremiah 2:2 , John 14:1-3, Ezekiel 16:8). also just because he struggles with sin it doesn't mean he's not a follower of God, we all struggle with sins and all we are to do is pray to Jesus Christ, repent of our sins, read the Bible, spend time with Jesus in prayer, have fellowship with His Holy Spirit, spread the Gospel, encourage each other in Christ and pray and love one another and not unrighteously judge each other's sin. Lastly I'll say this, make sure you are well in the faith and know Jesus more personally and have a good deep strong intimate relationship with God. God bless

Is Same Sex Attraction a Sin? | Sam Allberry: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oeyq_ZO4YMw.html

When did he become a Christian? Going by the Anglican designation, this would appear to be yet another failure of infant baptism.

One can not live in open, unrepentant sin and be a Christian at the same time.

These two sound so patronizing with Sam...

Sam never defines what Jesus's "good word" would be for those struggling with homosexual temptation. (This is key as it is the crux of his thesis.) God's good word includes repentance and forgiveness. It does NOT, as Sam implies, include God telling the one who struggles with temptation that you are "good" as long as you don't act on those desires. We do "good" when we put our sinful desires to death (Rom. 6, Col 3, etc), not when we seek to redefine our sinful desires as "good."

Sam Allberry has said disgusting things about Jesus Christ in the past. Blasphemy in fact with Ravi standing by his side. I was appalled that he was not yanked off the platform. Why is anyone giving this man any credence at all? Shameful.

I guess I'm confused whether the self-identification as gay means they're NOT struggling against it? He wants the church to embrace homosexuals who...what? Are accepting that this is just who they are? Then there's no agreement with God. If you love Jesus, you will love the things he loves and hate the things he hates. Why insist on the church loving the gay person AND homosexuality therefore, part and parcel? Since the gay person doesn't seem top allow any differentiation. I'm not sure what he's asking, what he wants from us. A soft nodding of the head with our eyes closed at the disclosure that he's gay, and then say no more about it?

I personally don't like the translation "gentle" used in places like Matthew 11:29 (NASB) Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart. Gentle can give them impression of someone who is never assertive, doesn't argue, isn't angered at sin etc. The KJV, American Standard Version, Literal Standard Version, New American Bible, & Young's Literal Translation translates the word "meek" instead of "gentle". Meekness is strength under God's control. Christ wasn't always "gentle" in his reply to the Pharisees, and called them sons of the devil etc. He made a whip and drove out the money changers from the temple. Yet he was very gracious to the humble and repentant, like Zacchaeus the tax collector.

The digressing was most definitely strong Eh 🧩 Wow Oh Wow 🧠 My Oh My 🗣 👥 👤

The bridegroom pursues His church.

Jesus is the bridegroom we are his bride we are in a covenant relationship with him I bought a ring to because he is a husband to believers this man is not weird he loves God

This is a skeezy interview. Too much effiminate and emotional conversation and questioning among men.

This idea of Christianity is so far from true lordship redemption thru Christ in which his creation is taking back dominion according to God’s word!!!

@109

This was a very thought provoking podcast in many ways. First, I wonder about your assessment of apologists. I love Greg Koukl and he does a solid job of analyzing CRT as well as joining with Beckett Cook, a former homosexual who has some great things to say. I really respect your take on things so wonder what you think of him. I totally agree with you on the sin of homosexuality but how do we react if two men walk into our church holding hands? This is a relevant question that we may have to face.

Closet profligate

Despite the mustache, PDT is a an effeminate.

It is the kindness of God that leads to repentance. Not the being a jerk. This is the problem with most of Christianity. They want to be mean and point out everyone's flaws and what they need to change on. Completely disregard Jesus sermon on the Mount. Paul warns against this. You are not the one who fights against powers and principalities, but Christ. This type of thinking turns people away from the Lord, not to him. Straighten up and fly right, doesn't work. The Devil laughs at you. Jesus said, I desire mercy and not sacrifice, go and learn what that means.

First!

You were just a little bit too much interested in the homosexual male.