@@Josefumika No. Luigi was put into his hurt animation. That doesn't happen with phantom hits. Also, Falcon's down air did it's full 16%. Phantom hits only do half damage.
I dont see any problem. The lower tier character won. Even if they barely scraped by that just means that the tier list is much more even than people say it is.
That was the Invisible Ceiling Glitch at 10:47. After Luigi Down Smashed at 10:45 on Falcon’s shield, he gets hit by the knee before the animation is done, sending him airborne. This puts him in the state of Invisibke Ceiling, so the next spike sent him slightly upwards instead of down
A SpaceFox ult players will call Palu top 5 and then mii brawler low tier. One has a player base and the other doesn't, and I think the differences start and stop there. Ppl would rather complain about Palu than actually try to figure her out. I don't see many people saying how you can deal with her shit. For other top tiers, there's counterplay actually talked about. There's even counterplay to palu's nair and combo starters into it. Don't jump if you're expecting it and punish her if she tries to down throw you off a grab. Just grab her and start your combo
Peanut Butter Pikachu there’s a difference between figuring out palu, who can beat most options with invulnerability, and figuring out Lucina, who is more of an honest top tier
@@peanutbutterpikachu There are literally entire discord groups for each character that do their best to study the full potential of every character, including mii brawler. Can't say that's a valid argument.
I play a bunch of Ness on Slippi, and I have to say, Melee Ness really doesn't feel bad once you have a good grip of his jenky mobility. His string/combo game is as solid as you could ask for, his double jump cancels are incredible mobility mix-ups (though honestly, not cancelling the double jump is more of a mix-up), his uair and fair landing lag ain't bad even if you fuck up the L-cancel, he's a slow faller until you don't want him to be then he fast as fuck, neutral B usually gets me at least one safe edgeguard kill a game, his bat was at its longest range in Melee by FAR which makes for a very strong/relatively safe tipper wavesmash option, and don't even get me started on yoyo glitch fuckery 😁 sheik and marth can be rough matchups imo, but I don't mind seeing the rest of the roster!
I main G&W, and he isn't really that bad. He may be low tier but once you get used to it, you can do amazing things. With the nair or fair, you can launch pretty easily
The length of time it takes these characters to finish off the final stock of their opponents here kind of reveals why the characters are considered low-tier or at least unviable. It's not that it's impossible to consistently win with them, but that doing so is much, much more challenging than it is with the top/high tier roster.
Fun compilation but anecdotal evidence doesn't really support the claim that the game is well balanced. Like, it doesn't disprove it but this seems like a pretty small sample size and it's just contextually lacking to be a convincing argument. The curation is nice though and I'd like to see more like this.
@@edgycircle457 I mean yeah it's totally broken but that doesn't make it balanced? Pretty sure he says the game is unbalanced im the video too so I have no clue what point you are trying to make other than that you agree with me.
Sure when you have the game optimized to it’s absolute limit and you know every single bit of frame data and animation then you might only consider the top few characters viable for your level of play. But almost anyone else can deviate from those few options.
The very first one shows why this isn't true: DK player plays exceptionally well, and Professor Pro is playing pretty badly (compared to normal), and despite the clear output difference it still gets to a last stock situation, when imo if they were both playing good characters I think that DK player would've been up 1-2 stocks, if he played that well with a good character.
It’s a fun video but what actually makes most characters “unplayable” is their matchup with Marth. A lot of low tiers can do decent against the spacies, largely because the spacies’ fall speed and recovery let’s you punish their mistakes into oblivion (even though spacies will still win if played optimally). But Marth slaughters just about every low tier without a decent disjoint. Approaching is a nightmare. You can’t style on them the way you can style on fox. Fighting on FD night as well be hell. You can always win in theory, but it isn’t fun to play. If you want to show a character is viable (or even just playable) show their Marth matchup.
Even after almost a whole year and a reupload, this is still the most confused comments section in Melee content history. Nobody seems to understand the purpose of the video, or the slight sarcasm held within the title.
then what was the point of showing players beating top players with mid or low tiers? Give us an insight. Just because a character can beat another doesn't make that character good or the game balanced
@@lapplandkun9273 It's just showing that even though the characters might be considered unplayable in tournaments, they still have the ability to succeed even if just barely. The video's goal is to make you realize that other characters can do at least something.
@@lapplandkun9273 If you have watched any of his other videos he references the poor balancing regularly so it's obviously a joke. Even more apparent when he included the last clip.
If I remember correctly, Kage's run at Canada cup had him facing three Sheiks in a row into top 8, all ranked higher than him... Faceroll (I think) then Android, and the last one being M2K. M2K would go on to win the tournament, so a respectable loss to end his run. I really wish Kage had stayed active more after that tournament, he was on 🔥. I feel like Canada Cup 2017 is so underrated in the history of Smash. Kage went deep, and M2K was prime, hitting those AMSAH techs against Leffen, and pulling off a sick Thundercatz combo on Dreamland. Legendary.
What's always interesting about low tiers is that their games are close in stocks, and against a number of top tiers a few bad reads or mistakes can cost them the match. Notice how no one among all these low tier users 4-stocks or blows out anyone in this video.
m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yUKInx3LpR0.html m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WWIpAk2sa08.html That's because you've never bothered to look for! ._.
A lot of the reason for that has nothing to do with the ranked player's character choice. It moreso is that everyone that uses a top tier here is also ranked top 100 in the world on top of playing a better character.
@@chuckbatman5 Its not. Smash the Record (the tournament that clip was from) used a different ruleset that's not generally considered good for competitive play so they use the weird jank the extra typically banned stages can have as an incentive to get people to donate (and generally better appeal to more casual viewers for better viewership, hence also leading to more donations). Those are certainly top competitive players, and it was a tournament, but competitive standards wasn't really the point of this tournament. www.ssbwiki.com/Tournament:Smash_the_Record_2016
@@ernestoacosta7918 that's the worst take ever said - everyone is capable of doing this glitch, it's in everyone's repitore. Don't dismiss his skill based on an exploit every character can use.
Power Mind woah calm down, I wasn’t dismissing his skills at all, I was saying he had a better ability for it, and how is that the worst take, you could think of worse takes?
Power Mind if it’s easiest to do with Luigi than that’s part of the skill of Luigi, you can get the glitch more often and use it more often to your advantage
I don't mean to be rude or anything, and while this video is fun to watch simply because of the great matches/plays that appear in it, it doesn't really prove anything. Tier lists exist for a reason, and that reason is to determine which characters are objectively the ones that have more tools to overcome an obstacle (a.k.a. "are better"). Putting a bunch of clips of low tiers winning against top tiers doesn't show low tiers are more viable, it shows that that person with that character played better against the other one, on that particular scenario. Plus, The Big House 5 clip with the Luigi-not-taking-downward-momentum bullshit is specially misplaced. If you wanted to show that Abate is a great player and that he can beat other guys' top tier characters, why did you put in the video the one time he won just because of a glitch? Tl;dr: This video is fun to watch, but it doesn't prove at all the point you're trying to make.
@@antoniotamajon2700 Melee is balanced, the player is the one who can choose to get great with a character. With enough hard work you can win with any character
A rookie is the god of disrespecting fairs and chaingrabs. Mario is still top tier with the old Melee tierlist. Even if the tier list was old, he was still a good balanced character.
I love that last clip proving that samus isn’t a good character by having her SD 3 times. Clearly a balanced character, as you can see from this skillful defeat.
That’s... rather presumptuous... I genuinley like hungrybox, I just left my gut reaction to seeing that gameplay here - it doesn’t suit the point of the video
@@bomb4r719 I mean, Hbox is a good Ness by Ness standards, but he isn't good enough to compete at a high level with him. That set was just him and Hugs playing around. I mean, they were playing on Mushroom Kingdom II. And I don't think the video should be taken as seriously saying that low tiers are viable as it was mostly gameplay among lower to mid levels of competition with a few exceptions.
@@gumbo9545 true. I think Yoshi is better than people think. and that may be true for other low tiers as well. I just don't think all of the examples in this video really prove the point it's trying to make. but I'm on board with the idea.
@@AmmerBros I think it's also because amsa has tech skills on par with the gods. He singlehandedly brought his character up the tiers, and has beaten many good players in recent years. Hell he is up 3-0 against Mango in their past encounters, which can't be said by many this year.
I feel the same way tbh, its why no matter what i continue to use characters like pichu that others wouldnt nornally main. Though honestly i dont go into the "who do you main" thing too much since I'm playing to have fun at the end of the day
Smash Player: "Worst Fox player in the game" Professor Pro: "No, I am not!" Smash Player: **Hovers over any F- character** Professor Pro: **begins sweating profusely**
Ah yes, the best kind of balance, the one that makes you main a character fully for a chance to get anecdotal wins where other characters would win consistently with less effort. Sure is a good and balanced competitive environment.
@@GamingGod2000 having to really only master 8~ matchups is far more enjoyable and a true show of skill than ultimates 70+ matchups. How often do you see a random character upset a top level ultimate player or vice versa in melee? It never happens in melee but when it does it's hype. In ultimate you can literally lose because you've never played against a specific character and there is nothing you can do to prevent it
Sib But the exact same thing happens in melee? Only reason you don’t see it as often if because people don’t actually play those lower tier characters because they striaght up aren’t viable. The game is also like 18 times as old so of course people will know matchups better.
How many more commenters are gonna take the video title seriously? No this is not proof of anything, but it is a fun compilation of low tiers vs top tiers
A lot of these instances are of godlike players playing people who.. Well, aren't godlike players. Take Qerb, for example, who is unarguably the best Game & Watch in the world, vs an average or above average Marth. It doesn't mean that low tiers CAN'T beat high tiers, it just means that the low tier character's player has to be significantly better than the other player. It's not a win condition, it's just an advantage.
