Men | ContraPoints 

Hey how are you?

"No mom it's socio-political analysis I swear"

"I watch Contrapoints for the plot"

wouldn’t it be nice to see a men’s movement that modeled itself not in opposition to feminism but as a companion movement

honestly, men's rights, trans rights, and feminism should be sibling movements, not against eachother

"The male gaze" and "the male gays" has to be my favorite double entendre ever for no particular reason.

The juxtaposition of being extra Super Rational (tm) while also regularly citing your horoscope is brilliantly infuriating. How dare you, you genius.

Last night my wife and I were having some drinks with friends. I was wearing a black leather mini skirt, Batman Crop top, a crop top biker jacket, and my Demonia platform boots. A man comes up to me. The was a big burly biker looking guy wearing a cutoff denim vest with patches all over it, flannel shirt, dirty cargo jeans, and combat boots. I thought he was going to kick my ass. No. He came up to me and wanted to thank me. He always wanted to experiment with more feminine clothes and was too afraid until he saw me with my friends laughing and having a great time. I was the person who made him feel like it was safe to be himself. I told him clothes are just clothes. They keep you warm and cover your privates. That's all they are. If you want to wear a dress and heels do it. Anyone who has issue with that doesn't need to be a part of your life. Men often feel like they have to put on a fascade of what society tells us a "Real Man" is. Parents need to be the ones to change that.

Toxic masculinity is a term that actually came out of a men’s rights group in America in the seventies, as difficult as everyone seems to find that to believe.

"affection is always concealed behind this semi-jokey front of competition" this shit hit different

There is a running joke among historians that masculinity is always in crisis.

Transitioning to a man was (and still is) a very strange thing in today's world. When I realized I was a trans man I put off transitioning because I had a very negative view of men. Most of it came through bullies in highschool. Then one day I kinda used the feminist ideas I learned and applied it to my transition. I used to tell myself, "I am a woman no matter what I wear or do." So I changed it to, "I am a man no matter what I wear or do". That was really freeing for me, but I still had a lot of social dysphoria. How could I be seen as a man, but still like who I am as one? Thankfully, my grandpa's are wonderful men. They are blacksmiths, carpenters, artists, and spend lots of time in nature. I started to associate those things with manhood and have my own sense of masculinity now. While I'm not out as trans to them yet (only a few family members know. It's difficult with religion), they invite me to their "man circles" where I get to talk and have drinks with the other men in the family. They are so happy to have me there, and I'm happy to be there too. I hope men can find there own ways of expressing there masculinity like I have .

I will say, the 11 and 12 year old boys I worked with in a rural middle school, they were comfortable hugging their male friends and saying I love you. They never said no homo or seemed uncomfortable. There's hope.

Hey wow, as a black man you almost made me cry to hear someone finally say it. I’m CONSTANTLY afraid that I’m making people uncomfortable, especially white women. I watched a young white girl leap out of an empty elevator in a PACKED Nike store in Chicago because she was scared of going up two floors alone with me. Not to mention her friends caught her like she jumped from danger and they were so glad she was safe again. It honestly just feels good to hear someone say it. I’m scared that you’re scared, I’m trying really hard to look as harmless as I can

Nat: “Im really sorry about all this... I’m trying to be attractive to men” Me: GIRL that lingerie is attractive to EVERYONE

I give a hearty laugh when I hear "anti-rich prejudice" Personally I love anti-rich prejudice, we need more of that please.

The masculine ideals I've tried to replicate come from Aragorn from Lord of the Rings and Uncle Iroh from Avatar. Is it super nerdy? Maybe. But their open kindness and honesty and fierce loyalty to those they care about I think are ideals worth emulating.

"I finally have the body I'm suppose to die inside of" Contrapoints, 2019. Its such a good philosophers statement btw not even joking.

wow, can't believe Natalie invented men

I’ve worked with men in psychological crisis and the amount of times I’ve seen them both deny help and later, admit something is messing with their idea of being a “ good man “ or a “ strong man “

Regarding women not liking when men open doors for them: I remember when I was little and my Dad told me that it is polite to open doors for people. So that’s what I did. I even held doors open for men and when he noticed, he told me that I should only open doors for women. I asked him why, and he didn’t really have an answer. Ever since then, I’ve been holding doors for everyone. Sometimes I’m standing there holding the door for a solid minute or two. Anytime a woman comes up to me and complains that I hold the door for them, I literally look them in the eye and say, “calm down, I do this for everyone. You’re not special”. I kind of get why it can get annoying to have the door held for you, but at the same time, be happy someone is holding a door open for you. It’s a polite gesture and shouldn’t be looked at too deeply in my opinion

Ahhh the experience of being a black woman and getting both catcalled and white women and older men clutching their purses... Good times...

marx: seize the means of production! natalie (an intellectual): overthrow the bourgeoisie meow meow

The mention of the extreme differences in social dynamics of emotional vulnerability is so true. I remember having some mindblowing conversations with an ex about the emotional sharing and support between her friends. For example, she knew the things her friends were insecure about, and would actively try to avoid putting them in uncomfortable situations, as well as give them positive affirmation regarding those insecurities. Meanwhile, I genuinely don't even know the emotions of my closest friends, one of them could be contemplating suicide and our conversation would just be about our jobs or hobbies. There's this weird pressure in our culture to never show weakness or vulnerability, and keeping that mask up is absolutely exhausting. Even among super close friends, its seen as embarassing or shameful to mention emotions, so most guys just hide it and suffer in silence. I kind of suspect this is a huge reason why for so many guys, their "dream wife/girlfriend" is just somebody who will listen to their problems, since thats pretty much the only way they can get emotional release without shame. They can't go to therapy, since that would mean admitting they have a problem, and are therefore "weak," so they try to find that therapeutic relationship in the only form that doesn't make them seem weak, which is a significant other.

My partner (male, bless him) is tall and bearded and used to be a bit rounder in the belly than he is now. A large boy with a loud voice, but gentle and thoughtful and kind. He isn't a particularlly masculine guy socially - if he feels like crying he WILL cry. And it'll be loud. And he will want hugs. He is also disabled with severe fatigue and often needs a wheelchair. The way people treat him when he is in a wheelchair to when he is standing up is night and day, even disregarding the people who go "Hello there!!! How are you?? are you going on a FUN walk?!?" like he is a baby. (Not a problem - just funny. I'm sure some people in wheelchairs really appreciate that friendly interaction.) People are more talkative, more friendly, more open and honest with how they feel. Sitting in a wheelchair strips away everything that might make him appear intimidating to people. Even other men treat him differently. It's super weird... and really sad. The times where he feels the most connected to others socially is when he is feeling too sick to stand up. That, to me, is pretty fucking dire. The way people subconsciously alter their behavior around men is so stark that it completely emotionally cuts them off from EVERYONE.

"I look at the far left, and I see a bunch of people who spend all their time accusing each other of abusing moderator priveleges in closed Facebook groups. And I'm concerned that that MIGHT not succeed in ending capitalism, meow meow." - Natalie Wynn, 2019 Wow that was a call out hey how're you

Natalie: I'm pandering to the male gaze. Me: *sweats in lesbian*

First time watching you, a few things: - why does this not have 10M+ views - the fact this came out 4 years ago is actually wild considering we weren't that far out of the 2016 era - this is about 9 billion times better than any of the videos about male issues put out today by youtubers demonizing the left every other word - Natalie quite literally stole my heart - my only concrete issue is that it's not 10 hours long so I have less of something I really like Had my right wing phase, happy to be here. This entire video still feels extremely relevant today and I'm happy I found it.

"Invisible and Dangerous", I recently came out as non-binary and started presenting more femme, and I noticed that people in general (especially women) seem less guarded around me than they did when I presented masculine. Not even exaggerating, it was like someone flipped a light switch. I mean yeah, there's obviously _(gestures wildly)_ other issues that come with transitioning and presenting as a gender other than what you were born, but that was something that I *definitely* noticed.

I will say, as a trans man, since I transitioned I've felt people are much less willing to accept my emotions. Especially after going to a liberal arts college. I felt like people were constantly like, "Men need to start expressing their emotions!!!" And then as soon as you do you're the immature and babyish one.

"How did Rome fall again? Was it... THE GAYS?" I'm not even thirty seconds in and I'm already in stitches.

As a girl feminist, this is a message from heaven. I've been having these exact thoughts and trying to critically question my own political ideals especially regarding feminism, but i could never quite pinpoint the "man" issue... The systemic shit men do go through and its consequences. Going through the comment section and seeing boys discuss was beautiful.

Hey Natalie, I know this is kind of an old video and I'm pretty sure you're not gonna read this comment and I realize most viewers won't either, but I just wanna say thank you for always being empathetic. I also wanna share my experience. So, I now identify as a trans woman but I've lived as a gay man my whole life and I haven't transitioned yet. Some of the things you said in this video about being a man (or presenting as a man when you're actually a trans woman) deeply resonated with me. I appreciate your perspective so much because I rarely see it being represented in left-leaning circles. When I was a kid, I was already very feminine and flamboyant, so a lot of kids would call me names in school and that of course included homophobic/transphobic slurs like fa**ot, s*ssy, etc, and they were usually hurled at me by boys. But what was unique about my experience is that I was also bullied a lot by girls. Sometimes they'd just use the same homophobic/transphobic slurs a lot of the boys used, but a lot of girls also called me creepy and avoided me like the plague even though I'm not attracted to girls and I literally hadn't done anything to them. Looking back, I think what caused that kind of reaction from girls was a combination of a lot of different factors, such as me being neurodivergent, my queerness, the fact that I wasn't conventionally attractive, me trying to be in close proximity with girls because I related to them more and wanted to hang out with them and be "one of them." But of course, they interpreted all of that as just me being "creepy" and used that as an excuse to treat me like a freak. The possibility that I might've just simply wanted to hang out with them didn't occur to them since I was a "boy" and boys aren't supposed to hang out with girls unless they're sexually attracted to them. I think the typical narrative when it comes to feminine gay men/trans women growing up in the closet as children is about how they usually have a lot of girlfriends and are accepted into communities that cishet men don't have access to. That was true for me too to an extent, but at the end of the day, even if I hung out with a couple of like-minded girls who actually treated me like a human being, I was always excluded from the larger community and most girls treated me like shit. So why didn't I turn out to be a misogynist who hates women? Well, it's simple. It's because I'm also a woman. It's because most boys also treated me like shit. Jocks hit me a lot. But even the nerdy boys who weren't considered conventionally attractive treated me like shit, because, even though we were pretty equal in terms of social status, I was feminine, and in their eyes, that made me a freak. Because I was also a girl, and because boys treated me like shit too, I was able to understand that it wasn't that girls were horrible monsters who didn't deserve rights. I understood that it was just kids in general, both boys and girls, who were cruel for no reason. If me being trans and feminine was what stopped me from becoming a misogynist, then what's to stop alienated, lonely, insecure cis straight men from turning into misogynists? NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. The truth that a lot of people in left-leaning circles often don't wanna hear is, that a lot of girls suck (just as a lot of boys also suck), and sometimes they just treat men like shit for no justifiable reason. Neurodivergent men, men who are considered unattractive, and men of color are especially vulnerable to this. Assuming other boys didn't treat them as bad as girls did since they had the privilege of growing up as cishet men, it's no wonder why they attribute this hurt solely to women when they grow up. If left untreated, this trauma can and does drive people to be resentful and arrive at harmful conclusions instead of facing the root cause. A rigid binary gender being enforced is what's behind all of this since it divides kids and sets up a structure that eventually turns boys and girls against each other. Toddlers don't care about gender as much as older kids do and they play with both boys and girls. But as kids grow up, they're forced into a binary environment in which you either have to be a sexual object or an objectifier, a conqueror or the conquered, a ruler or the ruled. Social interactions between boys and girls which don't involve sexual implications are heavily discouraged in this process, if not outright eliminated. Women who aren't deemed "feminine" and "pretty" enough aren't worthy of becoming objects that can sexually satisfy and comfort men after they come home from a long day of work tired, stressed, and miserable because of coerced labor in the capitalist system, therefore they have no value in society. Men who aren't deemed "masculine" and "strong" enough aren't worthy of becoming objectifiers who are entitled to conquer women like objects to compensate for the fact that they are commodities exploited for capital, therefore they have no purpose in life. That's how cisheteropatriarchy coerces both men and women into defining themselves in a way that reproduces itself. And this is exactly the environment in which boys are molded into misogynistic men who can only see women as objects that don't deserve rights. I believe this explains incels' hyper obsession with looks and sex. I also believe a lot of women who would describe themselves as left-leaning or even feminists engage in behavior that perpetuates this very system. For example, dick-shaming. I think a lot of women have this mentality that's like "we're body-shamed all the time and men have it easy, so let's give them a taste of their own medicine for once," but that completely ignores the fact that dick-shaming is also part of the same patriarchal system that reduces people, men and women alike, to their bodies and only assigns value or purpose to bodies that can either easily conquer or be easily conquered. It tells men that their dicks exist for one purpose only: to conquer women. It takes a part of your body and turns it against your soul as a reason why you're worthless. It goes without saying that some cis men who are feminists happen to have small dicks, and they don't deserve to be shamed. But I find dick-shaming particularly hurtful, partly because I, as a pre-op trans woman who was assigned male at birth, happen to have a small dick, too. And I'm not ashamed to admit that, because I think it's important to acknowledge that dick-shaming doesn't just hurt good men; it hurts trans women and genderqueer people who were assigned male at birth. It's also deeply hurtful to trans men who are insecure about their genitals and how that relates to society's idea of what manhood should look like. The same thing can be said about shaming men for being virgins. Combating incels and reactionary men is very important, but you can't meaningfully combat their presence by reinforcing the very idea that makes them so resentful in the first place: the idea that men's purpose in life must be to conquer women. In a modern society where only consensual sex based on mutual attraction is accepted, there are bound to be men who no woman's willing to have sex with. That's inevitable and can't be avoided. The question we should be asking is not how to make sure men like that don't exist or how to ignore them, but how to make sure men like that won't turn to misogyny as an answer to their perceived problems. We should be telling them that it's okay to not have sex, and that they don't have to be strong and masculine to be treated like they matter as men. Men like that are right in that they *are* victims, but they aren't victims of women. They too are victims of the patriarchy and we should be doing everything to help them realize that. This example, specifically, reminds me of liberal wine moms who make fun of Trump supporters for being "trailer park white trash." Like, sure, I'd imagine a lot of white people who live in trailer parks *do* support Trump and are very reactionary for sociological reasons, but there are also a lot of people like that who don't support Trump. And also, there is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with living in a trailer park. If anything, they are also victims of neoliberal capitalism, and we should be doing everything we can to open their eyes to that fact. Shaming them might feel good in the moment, but in reality, it's counter-productive because it only fuels their resentment towards who they perceive as "coastal liberal elites" and that in turn makes them even more hateful towards powerless minorities who are victims of the same system that's oppressing them. I've also noticed that some left-leaning POC unironically make fun of white people for things that aren't inherently bad, and I find that disappointing. Since white supremacy is often used to get white people to vote for politicians that will make their lives worse, white people are victims of white supremacy too but not many are willing to acknowledge that. It's like, a lot of people on the left are like the unironical conservative strawman of the angry, divisive Marxist whose worldview is just "rich people evil, poor people good," and applies that simple logic to any privileged and oppressed groups, when in reality, Marx mostly criticized systems, not individuals. But I digress... I wish to live in a world where both men and women recognize that they're both victims of the same system, and work together in solidarity. That starts with compassion. Again, thank you for always being so empathetic to everyone, Natalie. You're like a beacon of light in this cruel world. Your ability to see the bigger picture and empathize with even those who might see you as subhuman never ceases to amaze me. It's beyond admirable. Please keep doing what you're doing if you can and never forget how you positively impact the world 💓

"So, what do you feel atracted to?" - ContraPoints saying meow meow condescendantly.

Im a man who's found an identity that fulfills me: I am one of *h e r b o y s*

Natalie: If there are any women still watching this video, I'm really sorry about all of this. Us lesbians: we're good, thanks.

When I was learning Japanese, one detail that initially shocked me was that men are often described as "carnivores" or "herbivores" (most often by women, interestingly) in much the same way we might use "alpha" and "beta" in English. They also have a special term for a man that escorts a woman home at night ostensibly to keep her safe, but really in the hopes of pressuring her into something: okuriookami, literally "escort wolf". The "male implies threatening" thing really is depressingly omnipresent, and I wish I had any idea how to change that beyond "tell the shitty men to stop being shitty".

"I integrated into female social groups, and I found that they provide a kind of communal support and overt affection that male social groups generally just don't." As a dude who cried within the last month because I didn't feel like I had anyone I could share my feelings with, yepppppppp.

Sure the yogurt is powerful, but fellas, is it tactical?

I will confess something: I used to be a guy who was always shouting “I have it worse because I’m a man!” I won’t go into too much detail, all I’ll say is now, I’m a lot more happy and confident with myself, so I’m able to look at the world more rationally. Also, most of my friends, acquaintances and mutuals are either women, and/or biologically female. So I’ve learned so many things from them, and the experiences they’ve shared with me (many of which are heartbreaking) What I do wanna say, though, I was never “like most guys.” I never was into sports, I preferred to talk about my feelings (and was rarely taken seriously), and I’m on the asexual spectrum, so I never fit into the the ol’ “men are constantly thinking about sex!!! Sex sex sex!!!” Which made me feel highly emasculated. Also… another thing: I got into an abusive relationship, and that set me back so far in my life. I tried to move on in a healthy way, but alas, most of my “friends” just made fun of me and told me to “stop whining” and “just move on.” But… I couldn’t. I needed validation (but didn’t get any for many years). Also, even my “friends” who were women would constantly make fun of me for being socially awkward around women, for not being able to get dates, for “letting” my ex abuse me, etc. so… for years, I was stuck in a state of constant trauma By no means am I using this to say “so yeah I had it worse!” No, not at all! I’m also not gonna absolve myself of responsibility for any sexist attitudes I previously held. But I will say, what helped me become a better person was not “magically letting it go and accepting it wasn’t about me,” no, what helped was finding women who validated me and allowed me to feel safe describing my experience…which in turn made it easier for me to wanna listen to their experiences and do what I could to help them

Omg, you’ve literally nailed so many points I’ve struggled with. I’ve been a borderline “redpiller” but I always rejected the venom in the typical narrative. The irony that a woman, trans too boot, has enlightened me, hasn’t escaped me lol

honestly, i feel like trans people are such an untapped source of perspective on how men and women are treated in society. as a trans guy who didn't transition until my 20's and who passes well now, i've learned so much that i never heard of or thought of before transitioning. one of the biggest struggles i have in life now is that before i transitioned, i was a quiet and socially awkward girl who liked videogames. people thought i was timid but sweet and would approach me or want to work together. now, as a quiet and socially awkward guy who likes videogames, i actually make people uncomfortable. i feel like i'm overly polite and never say or do anything remotely violent, but i actually had someone report me because they saw me frustrated (bad day, was just frowning and marching home minding my own business) and thought i was going to harm myself or others. and in this day and age with everything going on, i can't even blame them. it also seems like girls are much more afraid to be alone with me (i'm gay, so any perceived 'nice guy' behavior is not intended). that being said, there are also things that got way easier after transitioning. people don't doubt my understanding of stem subjects and i can walk home alone at night without worrying nearly as much. as much as male activists tend to be awful and just a reaction to shut down feminists, i do think that it's a subject that should be talked about rather than shut down instantly.

Can I just say, I'm a pretty big dude, but if I was alone in an elevator with someone and they started whistling "row, row, row your boat" it would freak me out a hell of a lot more than if they were just riding it with me in silence.

Being a Trans boy being told "hello boys" gave me ALOT of joy

I had a discussion with my younger cousin recently that reminded me a lot for this video, about how there's no clear guide for young men to express their masculinity. Because of that, they just become resentful of having to repress all of their impulses. This REALLY made me worried for him.

Kind of off topic but i feel the comments on this video can serve as a very positive space to talk about how black men arent dangerous and are more often extremely kind and helpful dudes. An example: once i took the wrong bus and then ended up in very east of Troost in kansas city, which is a very largely black neighborhood. At the time i presented very feminine and i am white. It started pouring fuckin rain the moment i got off the bus and it was also another hour before another bus came going back. So i started walking to twoish miles west to my place in westport. About 20 minutes into this i am soaked to the bone and an older black man pulled up to me and asked me if i needed a ride. I was hesitant at first and he literally showed me his drivers license and said i could take a picture. He also said i could take a picture of his car and lisence plate. He was putting a significant amount of his personal info on the line for some random white girl. Anyway i was so thankful and taken aback by this i just got in his car and thanked him profusely, soaking his passengers seat in the process. He drove me home and then gave me 20 fuckin dollars after because i mentioned i couldnt afford my inhaler. He had a niece that died due to an asthma attack so he felt compelled to help me even though we talked about some of his own struggles as he drove me home. He gave me his business card but that was like five years ago so ive lost it. I think about that man often though and as ive transitioned to male he is one of my main masculine icons. I hope to be as paternal and caring and capable as him someday. Anyway yeah. Black men are not a threat, they are allies to all in a very broken society who largely make it better just by existing.

I once was catcalled by a man yelling the word cat at me and I wish him well.

When I was in college the first time around I was in the middle of designing my own major for "men's studies"... I wasn't even sure what to call it, I just knew that the gender studies courses I took were mostly about feminism, as were the women's studies courses, and I was looking around wondering why no one was looking at the huge gap. At the time I was devouring books by men who would later get tangled up in MRA groups, then detangle themselves once the groups turned crazy. It seems sad to me that men's groups have by and large had some good points buried in a lot of anti-woman batshit "coconuts" perhaps as Natalie here would say... really shooting themselves in the foot to ensure they'll never gain any traction. I've been waiting a long time to see effective pro-masculinity groups that don't have their foundations in things that are bad for other humans/the planet. It's almost like men have a hard time seeing how they can raise themselves up without pushing others down-meow meow. I will say that it is happening, it's just small and painfully slow. There are a lot of positive masculinity podcasts, books, etc out there, seemingly increasingly so. There's some hope.

I'm a straight guy who can be pretty feminine, and this was my experience. I grew up and continue to live in the south where gender roles can be pretty strong. I didn't get along with almost anyone because I didn't like hunting and fishing or wresting and whatnot. I didn't have any real friends that I really enjoyed being around until I was in high school. I met some people at school and some people online. all of my friends were men and I was pretty awkward around women so I only had some acquaintances in that department. I was pretty depressed at the time due to a lot of childhood issues but I never sought help and relied on my own destructive coping mechanisms to get by. I didn't want a therapist because I was under the belief that I was ok and didn't want to risk getting a bad therapist and being weak for needing meds or therapy. Growing up every time i was not alone felt like a Pokémon encounter. I was always picking and choosing what to say and do to not appear feminine and thus not weak. It felt like I wasn't allowed to be myself and like there wasn't a world where I could be. Even among friends, most conversation was just bsing and some times with certain people there would be a kind of bullying as someone tried to establish a higher rank in the pecking order. my friends at school mainly bsed, but those I met online had this weird mix. this is how things were for a long time until something strange happened. one night me and my closest online friends stayed up all night and talked about our past traumas. It was a moment of bonding I had never experienced before. It was such a legendary occasion that we hence forth referred to it as "that night". It sounds general but everyone knew what it meant. these things never happened among my school friends but as time went on these "nights" occurred every once in a while even as the friend group changed and evolved. I realized that all of my friends were sad whether they said it or were too afraid to admit it. All of us were sad, depressed, and just lost. I survived off of these "nights" alone until I had one of these nights with a newer member of the group. She had more in common with me than any of the friends I had ever met and for once I was comfortable sharing everything. I had never gone in so much depth and revealed as much as I had that night and neither had she. we started dating shortly after and we have been together for eight months. I would have never realized I was as feminine as I am of it weren't for her making me feel so comfortable with myself even if I feel like I still have to hide it Infront of most people still. For a man to confide in another man of all that had happened takes an extreme amount of trust. As a guy, I would occasionally over hear women complain about small insignificant things, gush about their life stories in public, and they could even cry and people would feel sorry for them. All of this was down right unimaginable. as a guy you couldn't complain. you had to man up and shut up, and crying was seen as weak and childish. when I was in high school it felt like the slightest tear could be the end of your entire existence and manhood. the amount of things that women will get assistance with is astronomical compared to men. if some girl ran off with her boyfriend and came home crying sometime later she would be welcomed with open arms. if a boy did this he would be slapped for being an idiot and in some cases would not be allowed back home. If you ever see men talking about women being weak, one of the things above is probably the reason. However, even if we don't always like to admit it, guys have feelings too but most of us feel uncomfortable sharing them. There are plenty of men out there who feel like they just can't be themselves or express their feelings.

idk if I have to skills to explain this, but watching this as a black woman is pretty frustrating. It's the worst of both worlds, I experience a lot of the things you mentioned you experienced before you started presenting as female, people avoiding witting with me, or making eye contact with me, or walking across the street from me at night, but I also experience all fear aspects of womanhood. I feel terrified coming home at night, but I have no perceived vulnerability, or fragility.

I'm 6"5 and black. I definitely get treated as dangerous. Seeing some woman walk in front of me at night, look over her shoulder, speed up and get her phone out, or more often walk to the other side of the street, is not uncommon. I always try to remember that women have to be more aware (in lack of a better word) of danger, than I do - I don't really have to pay attention to where it's safe for me to go after dark... but sometimes I just want to speed past them and say "I'm just trying to get home myself!! My god". Also, whenever I pass a parent out with his or her kid, the knee-jerk reaction when they see me is to call their child to them or like reach out for them. These are just two minor examples where I can always predict the reaction I will get, for simply being present. It's subconscious, but it's frustrating. I don't look scary and I'm friendly and a good guy.

It is such a hard pill to swallow, that if we, as men, want to have a better life, we need to build it for ourselves. The only solution you have, as a man, is indeed NOT to complain online by rageposting about how unfair life is and how terrible your issues are. And that's really difficult to accept! Because when you look at the crux of social reforms, the way minds are changing in our society, the way issues are being brought to light, a lot of it comes from various groups of people... rageposting about their issues! Constantly! And feeling justified for it! And so when you see men's issues being brought up in a similar fashion, and then being absolutely slammed, the obvious response is "so it's okay for them, but not for me?" It's frustrating, it's infuriating, it's unfair. But that's just the way it is. Today, if you post about how life is unfair as a man, you just feed a gigantic gender war machine that wants nothing more than to grind you into a fully radicalized member of society. Imo the same is true about any group really, but that's beside the point. Point is, your only choice is to find a way to be better. Inspire yourself, inspire your peers, and one day build a community that is strong enough to help other men, a community that will help guide your sons and their sons once you are gone. A system changes from the ground up, don't wait for some politician, or some make believe revolution to do the work for you. Build your own little slice of heaven, what society at large does is not your concern, you'll go mad trying to wrestle with the idiots of the entire world

Love the dedication, you transitioned just to have a fair and balanced perspective on this topic

Fellas, the positive masculinity model we need is Kronk.

honestly having someone whistle "Row Row Row Your Boat" while you are the only two people in an elevator sounds like the first scene in a horror movie.

Strangely enough, Abigail was my rolemodel for nontoxic masculinity. That more than anything has reshaped my foundation for what is or is not coded as masculine or feminine.

This will probably get buried under the other 27,008 comments, but as a guy, male role models have absolutely changed my life. Growing up I never had a great example of a stable, confident role model, and as a result I developed into a deeply defensive and self-hating teenager. Many of the men in my life now have given me something to aspire to - whether they remember a small detail of my life that is important to me, show unwavering strength in the face of my most hopeless confessions, amaze me with their maturity in dealing with conflict, or simply in their wisdom and experience with the difficult problems of living. I see these qualities in women, too, and take inspiration from them, but with these men I feel an added sense of shared experience. There's a feeling of hope that comes from seeing someone who went through the same struggles as I did and who came out the other side okay, whether that be in love, work, friendship or family. Additionally, it's the empathy that they've shown me, and the way they've treated me, which has made me realize what kind of positive change in behavior is possible. I desperately need to go to bed now, but stay strong, my boys.

Gender really confuses me. It didn't help that I was raised by a single mom with a deep hatred for men. She wanted me to believe that as a man, I would never be capable of being a good person. I can't imagine what sort of trauma contributed to her outlook. Luckily even as a child I realized how absurd the claim was. I think being a good person has nothing to do with gender or sex.

As a man, I feel very targeted, and I thought I should comment on a 30 minute video that was posted 5 minutes ago.

As a trans man I still experience misogyny from others because I don’t pass, but I internalize harmful standards for men too. I hate my height and bone structure and everything even remotely feminine about myself. I used to like to present androgynously but now I feel like I have to be super manly. I feel like I’m not a real man if I cry. This is the side effect of a misogynistic society: both genders are harmed by the hatred of everything feminine.

I like the idea that men can create a new role model for themselves without it being the more destructive model that they've already known. The question of male identity reminds me of William Faulkner's novel "As I Lay Dying", in which Darl Bundren tries to replace the void in his family that his mother left when she died, breaking free of the traditional male roles of provider and husband.

My dad is someone who I grew up seeing as weak and passive, got older only to realise how secure he is in his masculinity despite the bs society told him about what it is to be a man. Now I wish I was more like him

New positive ideal of manhood? Does Uncle Iroh count?

My boyfriend has told me that he doesn't like the fact that he's assumed to be dangerous, even though he completely understands why women cross the road at night. This video also reminded me of another conversation I had with him. I'm mixed race and he's white. We went to a poetry night on Freedom Day (we're South African) and most poems recited were about whites oppressing POCs. A couple days later he told me he sometimes feels hated amongst his non-white peers. Racism isn't over and we still face systemic issues caused by apartheid which only ended very recently, so of course there are a lot of youth who are still hurt by ongoing issues. But I understand where he was coming from. I once told him that when we first started going out, I had to make sure that he wasn't secretly a racist who fetishized mixed women before I got too attached to him. He was a bit surprised, but he understood my reasoning, so he isn't a person who disregards these difficult experiences. I don't think it's wrong to want people your own age to give you the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming that you are oppressive or complacent in their continued oppression. He kept telling me that he wished there was some way to prove that he wasn’t like the apartheid generation, but unfortunately that just isn't possible especially when there is still reason for us to distrust white people. Anyway, great video. I hope that we can move into an era in which men feel more heard and in which all genders understand that our issues can be fought together.

being a trans guy that was a butch before I transitioned I see that I am easier to swallow now (people here have a tough time with masc women). I've had discussions with male friends who were asking me what does masculinity have to offer that isnt violent and ugly, we just sat for a while and talked and I think I made my friend who is dear to me feel less guilty and I feel a new type of masculinity forming. I dont quite know about online leftist spaces dedicated to rethinking manhood so if someone could connect me to one id appreciate it

As a 26 year old white straight man with no purpose in life and unsuccessful regarding relationships I find it so soothing when Natalie says MY BOYS

my dad: * walks into my room while I'm watching this * Me: ...it's educational I promise

currently in a tragic breakup involving a chaser - would love to see a video on trans fetishization and chasers for all kinds of trans people, your videos are my coping mechanism

"children who are trying to raise a family" Holy shit you really just slid that one in there

The positive male ideal already exists. It's Gomez Addams. He's everything I aspire to be as a man, a husband, and a father.

The not anti-feminist men's movement you're looking for is probably the original one, started by Warren Farrell. As a feminist in the 60s and 70s, he ran workshops that encouraged each gender to walk a mile in the shoes of the other: "In the men's beauty contest, all the men are invited to experience 'the beauty contest of everyday life that no woman can escape.' In the 'role-reversal date' every woman was encouraged to 'risk a few of the 150 risks of rejection men typically experience between eye contact and intercourse.'" He also wrote that, since men earn more, and women have more balanced lives, men have more to learn from women than women do from men. These are just some snippets. Farrell has an academic, conflict-averse demeanor. But he also wrote books like "The Myth of Male Privilege", which at first seem like a polemic against feminism. A deeper look reveals that it is a critique of the way that society enforces roles on BOTH genders --- while women are sometimes viewed as "sex objects", men are simultaneously viewed as "success objects", both standards that are difficult to meet. As a man, this latter part about "success objects" resonates more than I can express; Farrell is sometimes the only one who can put emotionally compelling words to realities I usually talk about in academic or statistical terms. He's not perfect, but unlike Jordan Peterson, his response to the recognition that men and women face different but equal levels of suffering isn't to say great, everything's fine, because suffering is good for the soul. Instead, he says that we can choose as a society to suffer less by empathizing with each other more, and generalizing feminist ideas to everyone.

I’ve been watching videos about feminism, about the fall of men and the loneliness epidemic, and even struggling with my own fears of being seen as someone “creepy” or “intimidating” to women for a long time now. I just want to say, even for a video 4 years old, your handle on the male experience is so spot on and timely that it is a breath of fresh air. I feel like you understand the underlying feelings and issues of men so incredibly well. Thank you for this video, i feel… very much seen.

"Existential angst is for privileged" nothing attacked me more than this

me 'n the boys getting de-radicalized by youtube gender analysts

If any cis-men are reading this, especially BIPOCs, at this moment, March 2022, I highly recommend F.D Signifire and foreign man in a foreign land. FD in particular has done a lot of work examining black masculinity in a modern context and interrogating what a healthy male role model might look like. If you aren't Black, than I still recommend it because he lifts up some excellent pieces of Black media everyone needs to be aware is available and awesome. Also I know it can be hard, but like, find some extracurriculars if you can. It honestly matters less that you are super passionate about it because you will find what you love later, but if you are in highschool or post-sec check out what clubs are going on. Doesn't matter if it is DnD, Martial arts, knitting, cooking, or chess, just anything that will get you speaking with other people. Most groups will be happy to help out a newcomer even if it sounds scary at first. Just give it a try and see if you like it, and more importantly, if you like the people you are doing it with... ok that sounds like a sex thing, but that is not the intention. But who knows, maybe you will find somone there too, just don't assume anything (although you'd be surprised how horny model UN gets). Also if you are wondering if what you are doing or interested in doing crosses any lines, just ask. Ask the cutie before you touch the booty is what they say... and by they I mean me because language lol. But seriously even if it is non-sexual, don't know if someone wants a hug, or a pat on the back, or to sit with them during an intense moment (to listen, sit there silently, or talk it through)? Ask. Also if you WANT any of those things: Ask.

Cis men are very underrated and deserving of love from time to time for their hardship.

Crackin open a new masculine ideal with the boys

Sharing a point of view from a group that also feels invisible. Women that are not traditionally attractive, or feminine. Having been in that category plenty of times, I have to say that it is a place that is just as invisible as most men feel. Not only on dating sites, but on the whole. My personal experience has been one of either potential target, or white noise. Looking like a dumpy mom has its advantages, invisibility being one of them. Being considered attractive lends its own kind of privilege. Also, just my opinion, maybe women would be less likely to be paranoid of all men if we weren't always told that our safety is our own problem. Our dress, location, and manner can and usually are used against us if we are ever assaulted.

This is my new favourite video I think. I deal with a lot of young men who lean towards right/ mysoginistic ideas, but on the other hand, seem like really emotionally intelligent, compassionate people. And you really are right - they need positive new ideas because THEY KNOW it isnt working.

This was such a tolerant video with statements that made me melt with appreciation. I have been saying a lot of these things for years, as a woman I am considered a bit of a traitor. But I really feel for a lot of what men go through. Especially the ones with depression, anxiety, autism, and low self-esteem, and, anecdotally, it seems often they come from an economically disadvantaged family. I'm all of those things too, and I can see so clearly that my path would've been almost certainly an alt-right, sexist, deeply insecure, and *angry* person because I was ignored by everyone....EXCEPT the alt-right. When I recognized this pipeline, then I realized that I felt that kind of resentment of society when I was their age too. I've recently been speaking to *everyone* tolerantly, just to see if maybe I can make bigots more tolerant too.

Dont take my alpha joghurt away from me

As a straight man who often felt like there was no purpose in life, I have found that the best solution was to adopt a more humanistic view of the world. It wasn't so much avoiding my role as a man, but rather to emphasize my role as a human being and deemphasizing the traditional male role. That's not to say that I've washed my hands clean of taking responsibility for myself, in fact it has liberated me into creating an honest meaning to life rather than trying to live someone else's. This in turn has shaped my view of the world and how I act around others. It includes things like treating others the way I would want to be treated and not taking myself too seriously. Life became a little easier when I stopped conflating my gender with who I really was as a person. I think in some ways we are all seeing the world through the eyes of the universe, experiencing itself through many different stories. If that's true then I'd only be hurting myself if I caused pain for others.

Just found your channel. I enjoyed this video as you raised some interesting points in an even-handed manner (thanks Libra), and I love your presentation style so much. I will certainly check out some more of your content.

Thank you for making this video. It really struck a chord with my lived experiences and my relationship to masculinity. I feel like for a long time, my conception of manhood has been in perpetual opposition to toxic masculinity, to the point that I’ve developed a somewhat negative perception of men as a whole, and by extension, myself at times. I love wearing dresses and other feminine clothing, and I don’t think I even realized how much of that enjoyment came simply from the fact that I wasn’t being viewed as a threat. Sure you gotta deal with the occasional bigot yelling “f**got” from the window of their car, but for me it’s worth it. It just breaks my heart how many young men get sucked into a perpetual storm of entitlement and bigotry, while being seemingly unaware that these false perceptions and expectations of manhood are largely exacerbating the preexisting struggles associated with being a man. I’ll be sure to share this with anyone who I think would benefit from hearing this. Thank you again for what you do ❤

I love how you don't post frequently. Every video feels like an event. I went to prepare food for this.

I'm really glad you care about your boys. I think more people need to realize that men's rights and women's rights aren't opposites but rather suffering siblings.

I honestly appreciate it SO MUCH when a guy changes the side of the street when it's late at night and we're walking in the same direction. I've been harrassed, stalked, followed and assaulted. That's not the fault of any man other than the ones who actually did that, but whenever a guy has that awareness and takes time out of his day to make me feel safer, it brings back a little bit of that trust that was lost.

Thank you for putting into words something I've been trying to express for 25 years! I'm an old trans guy, and you are absolutely right about the trade-offs of walking through the world as a man vs walking through the world as a woman. I also think you're spot on that we're in a period of change around gender. Feminism has (rightly) been pushing for women to have full access to the world for about 150 years now, but our conception of masculinity has barely shifted - and in many ways, boys have been left behind. We need a new way of being men that has more emotional freedom and less rigidity. It was so damn refreshing to see a frank discussion about the topic.

if i was alone in an elevator with a dude and he suddenly started whistling row row row your boat, i would freak the f out and assume this was the prelude to a murder scene.

"Gender just isn't working any more." Perfect summary.

Revisiting 3 years later, you are such, such a gem!

While I never slipped into the redpill/incel pipeline, and never really cared for being traditionally masculine, this video does sum up a lot of things I've been thinking about how patriarchal gender roles harm men as well as women. It's very difficult finding community and meeting people when you're considered dangerous by default, especially as someone who is incredibly self-conscious and doesn't want to make others uncomfortable.

Just my two cents, but I think Tolkien's heroes are a decent example of positive masculine heroes, like how Frodo and Sam can have a deep and intimate friendship and emotionally support one another, and even if they need to resort to violence at times they are also able to show compassion towards their enemies, plus the last chapters in LOTR are basically entirely about how all the different heroes settle down and start rebuilding Middle Earth. I love Peter Jackson's movies, but I am a bit disappointed that they didn't show Aragon being a skilled and empathetic healer like in the books. I think fiction could use more male heroes portrayed as good healers and nurturers.

the different colors of “urine” is such an important detail here edit:........this is my legacy now

Hey I'm also a trans woman who experienced, like, basically the same things, (just younger and haven't had time to complete all my trans goals) BUT something I really wanna make note of on the topic of being treated better as an out trans woman than as a closeted male-presenting trans woman is that, hey, actually being the person you wanna be makes people treat you how you wanna be treated! I love a million more things about myself now that I'm a 6ft girlboss mommy lesbian, and I've found that others are just more into ppl who are passionate about their identity because it's cool.

I just discovered your channel today, Natalie. Honestly, I've been having complicated and quite difficult days, and I feel more than touched by several of the topics you talk about in your videos (the video for The Hunger is phenomenal, and the video about the Incels too, and the one for The Darkness I also liked it a lot, I watched several videos and I liked them all, but some were very special to me) and honestly finding your content here was like the light at the end of the tunnel. I didn't want to be the typical sad young white man who gets angry and resentful against society and against women and against the world and life, basically. I found your channel by chance and I never thought it would be so...Revealing and incredible. Particularly in this video in which you talk about men and male identity and male angst, which the vast majority of women simply don't understand, it looks very good how you understand certain topics and address them and talk about them in a very conscious, deep, logical and rational way, while also fun and entertaining, and it is good that there is content like this on the Internet. Something that opens your mind, but also that invites you to analyze things, to analyze and question yourself, and also that, perhaps like me and perhaps like it happened to others, saves you from falling into an Abyss that once you are inside, it is very difficult to get out. Guys, don't fall for that red pill and black pill and stuff. It's like Natalie said. There are several of us who are in the same situation of male anguish and we do not do well with women and we're not so good in socializing, or relating, or bonding in any way with women. Well, let's work on that. Let's try to do something positive with the negative and not sink even deeper into the hole, let's try to get out. Let's just try at least. And there are several of us, or at least that's what it seems, so instead of being alone and isolated, let's try to help each other. Seeing these kinds of things I consider, in a certain way, saved my life. So yes, from now on I consider myself one of Natalie's "boys." Thank you for creating this type of content that the Internet needs so much. And I hope you continue to create more content in the future too. It is necessary, especially in these times. Thank you. And good luck. Greetings from Argentina.

As a lesbian I'm deeply offended you didn't pander for MY gaze too, excuse me.

“You’re oppressed because of your class, not your gender, so just join the revolution, overthrow the bourgeoise, meow meow” absolutely killed me, especially when followed by “Now I can see a couple of problems with that”

Im rewatching this for the 4th time and I’d just like to say that the person who made the Portuguese subtitles is just absolutely fabulous

this channel is such a good find 😇 Valid empathetic arguments delivered with sass