Messer vs Longsword (w/ Commentary) - Sparring Showcase 

Hey everyone! We finally got around to doing a sparring video with more detailed commentary, if you liked it or have any comments/suggestions, please let us know :)

Those sparks flying were really crazy, didn't anticipate that.

We like sparks and explosions. Please install a lame CGI effects software and put explosions at every blade contact. That's what we all want.

Sparring with commentary? YES KEEP THEM COMING! By the way Shawn just dominated his oponents which seems sort of counter-intuitive to me given that longsword has the reach advantage. Is that because of higher skill or is there something that I am not aware of? Also first i guess.

I found it particularly interesting and briefly perplexing that most of the Messer-successes shown in the video were with thrusts, but it does actually make sense. The thrust is the longest-ranged attack with almost any bladed weapon, so it makes up for some of the reach advantage of the longsword. At the same time, most longsword users focus on the cut, which is not quite as long-ranged as a thrust would be with the same weapon. So Shawn's thrusting was an excellent tactic to deal with the reach disadvantage of the Messer. It also seems that it is relatively easy to thrust off of a bind or a wind. An entirely excellent video.

I love seeing sparring with commentary! I have absolutely 0 experience and usually find it hard to follow, so it is much appreciated. Also the sparks flying off were really cool.

It's great seeing how a skilled fencer can still do quite well despite a weapons disadvantage.

So now, how do you beat a spear with a messer? I want this messer vs (weapon) series.

3:03 "without any specific advantage of structure" I'd look again. Your stance is firmly planted while your opponent is cross-stepping and twisted. You definitely have the structural advantage here, in addition to the strength advantage.

3:02 Actually, that's not true at all. If you look at your respective footwork, it's instantly made clear that your stance was much more correct. She only had one foot on the ground which wasn't even on the correct side of her c.o.m, while you had both in a wide stance and was already lunging forward. And to top it off, your arm was pretty much straightened, meaning that its bones were aligned in their absolute strongest state - hers were bent over her head. No feasible amount of strength or explosivity could've possibly turned that exchange against you; even if the opponent were to have enough power to push through all that, them pushing would've done nothing but push *themselves* back. Very good sparring session and commentary, though~

Wow. Great video! I love this style of video with the detailed explanations set to slow motion footage! I imagine this to be a lot of editing work, so thanks for the effort you put into it!

Man there is just something about the Messer style that I love. keep it up guys n gals really enjoying your vids.

Just wanted to know that I really appreciate the detailed analysis + scarring videos - they are great!

Just what I mentioned and here it is .Love it .

Great description and explanation of technique. I can see where quick and graceful footwork plays a tremendous part. Excellent demonstration.

The commentary was amazing! Thank you for putting it in.

Neat! Love the commentary, though I do like the longer, un-narrated stuff as well. I'm curious: I'd assume that the messer's one advantage over a longsword is that it leaves the other hand open. Is there any particular reason Sean didn't try to initiate a grapple with that?

I find I like to use this passing style footwork even with sabers. Keeping one foot forward at all times feels so unnatural for closing distance.

I like how you have a metal soundtrack for the intro and outro to your videos I like both metal and HEMA I think the both complement each other quite well, But other times classical mu sic will suit the art as well especially Wagners rise of the Valkyries

Great video my guy. Love the commentary.

Eu era tão criança quando ouvi falar dessa arte marcial da Europa,e quando mim contavam histórias dessa arte,eu passei a gostar,eu um ótimo esporte.

Love the messer, this video is great! Great commentary and just an all around wonderful vid.

This is impressive. Obviously you guys are improving.

ok that last one was so badass looking my jaw dropped

Yusss, that's exactly what I asked for, commented sparring ! Really interesting stuff.

In grappling strength is obviously important, but when someone says you fight strong while sparring it's not a complement. It's implying you rely on your strength instead of improving your form.

Nice point about strength. And I loved the sparks.

I love your videos keep on with the work guys!!

Of course strength matters. I mean you have to swing a hunk of steel 1+ kg around. If you're stronger, you can either swing it faster, or you can swing a heavier weapon with the same speed.

Sword fighting is like unarmed fighting the more complex the technique the harder to apply and the match ends up being a series of the most basic movements like the jab, the cross with front or semicircular kicks. Although with more and more sparring having in mind trying to apply complex ones, the easier they will become even if at the begining they won't work.

Who else notices the background music is from exiled kingdoms dungeons

Saw realistic sparks from the clash of swords. Automatically subscribes.

Loooove the commentary

I want to buy 2 protective gears along with 2 swords. How much will it cost? And where can I get it. Please tell me

excellent and interesting video regarding the instance where the messer fended off the longsword at 3:00, the longsword fighter could have swung the pommel out with the rear hand for a duplieren opportunity and struck the messer fighter on the head with a shielhau. that would have looked so cool! haha

Really nice to see sparring with commentary. AND THOSE SPARKS THO. Though this does make me wonder... how much can you afford to focus on your opponent's sword? I ask this question because my HEMA instructor says not to worry too much about your opponent's sword but I can see here that even though the longsword has the reach advantage they still have to focus on the messer unless they get too confident. Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong?

Would you not consider the weapons used here to be unbalanced? I mean, that's a longsword feder - a lighter, faster, sparring-optimised version of a longsword, whereas the messer looks like a simple blunt messer? Wouldn't this be better balanced with a technique-blunt style longsword?

nice video, please do more

That was a really nice response to a pretty furious combo there (against Brittany I think). I'm starting to feel like if your opponent has a longsword and knows how to chain multiple attacks at you (plays of the Twehrhau, in particular), the best way to beat them is to just parry the attacks and ride out the combo, then nachreisen when they run out of ideas and start to retreat. There's a distinct moment when a lot of fencers will pause after three or four attacks as if to say "oh, you weren't supposed to survive that". Obviously a single time defense that protects you and strikes them is better, but it's kind of hard to pull off unless you can accurately predict your opponent's next move (though lately I've found myself unintentionally doing successful single time defenses when I'm trying to do empty displacements sometimes, and I'm still not sure how). It is frustratingly common to be fighting someone (usually less experienced) and have them allow an incoming attack to hit them so they can hit you. For example, you throw a Zwerch at them to the right, then when the block throw another to the left and see them decide "I'm going to let that cut hit my head because I want to cut his arm with my short edge".

cool! would love to see sword and buckler vs longsword

it shows the point that a single sword is better then the long sword , you only have a short messer with little hand protection , not a basket hilt with a longer blade and you could have a buckler in the off hand

How would you have handled leg shots?

Regarding the play with Britney (sp?), you seem to be much better braced than she is. You have both feet planted and caught her while she had one foot off the ground and seemed to be (to my relatively untrained eyes) moving at on odd angle.

A lot more wrist twisting, as well. Though most of the blocks, guards, and parries weren't typically with the flat (As a lot of people assert) the Messer was actually designed for it, that's what the Nagel is there for. (Also typically fullered back "edges" and more stiffening to make it possible.) Later point forward swords like Rapiers added things like side-rings, and so forth, but they also minimized the significance of the Flat, and stiffened the blade for thrusting. So, they also flexed less in parries (Or whatever defensive action) So, they didn't have to twist the blade, just defend, and reposte. This is how they outperformed slower weapons like the Messer (Which was also a Tool. Literally a long Knife) Not because they're lighter (they weren't) but because they had more weight, and protection around the hand, a more mobile point, and you didn't have to twist around as much for an effective defense. So, you could defend, and respond, In Tempo. Unlike with the Messer, where you have to twist out of battery, then back into battery to respond with an effective cut. (Also, Armor, but that's a whole nother discussion.).

At 3:03 you had an amazing advantage in structure.

Keeping the hand forward could be just as dangerous with a basket or schiavona hilt as with a messer. There are lots of historical accounts of hilts being bent, broken, or even cut straight through. Do you discourage using the guard for parrying? Great video by the way, exciting to see some mixed weapon fights.

Момент с вышибанием искры был хорош

Very skilled!

More commentary spars please.

What is the song title?

Hey it's that music from exiled kingdoms :3

If a one-handed sword can take on a two-handed sword....then the two-handed user needs to take advantage of the reach they have & rush in to get the kill strike....otherwise....the absence of that tactic would premise that the one-handed sword is superior for it's ease of manufacture & the fact that you can also carry a shield. I still prefer the axe/shield combo.

Sorry there are only light cuts with the langes Messer ...no Hits to end the fight

How about new 60 fps camera ?

Would fighting with a Kriegsmesser (Longsword sized Messer) be similar to a Longsword? the only difference I see is that the Messer only has 1 edge.

I believe short boxers can learn a thing or two about this

No shoes?

Kind of reminiscent of later sabre techniques...

Those sparks, tho.

The Messer, the I don't care that I have a shorter blade, knife...?

So the Messer is essentially a short sword?

Those using the longsword neglected their prime advantage in reach and leverage. A stable structure with proper lunging would have made short work of someone with just a messer

I don't think that it was pure "brute strength" that allowed you to take that play. You see you were pushing with your arm ahead of you, so the muscles that perform the extension of your arm (in this instance, resisting the blow) were fully contracted, giving them maximal strength. Meanwhile, she did have both hands, but the muscles to lower her arms (between the shoulder and the shoulder blade) were in full extension, meaning that they were each working at perhaps 35% of their capacity. Moreover, you were moving forward, and had one foot behind your center of mass, while she was caught unbalanced backwards and with no support; which meant that even if she did have enough force in her arms to bend your arm, she would just have thrown herself backward, not actually lowered the blade, because she had neither the inertia nor the contact with the ground to make you move. So, overall, your structure was much better than hers for the purpose of that trade, and it wasn't even by accident. You saw that she was spinning her sword in the air, and doing a passover step with her feet, and you just took one step forward with authority. Her structure: "I'm a ballerina, with my arms in the air, and my legs crossed". Your structure: "falcon punch". You act as if it was surprising that you blocked a two handed attack with a single hand, but no one finds it surprising when you do it using a center grip shield. That's exactly the motion you did with your messer. The impressive part isn't the display of strength, anyone could do that to anyone else. The impressive element was the timing of your reacting and the precision of your blade's forte on her. Overall, I'm surprised none of the messer plays involved your left hand. I feel like with a messer my only plan would be: "hanging parry; grab wrist with left hand; cleave face as they cower backwards".

Might I ask what messer trainer that is? I wants it!

Wooooooooooooow!!! So it can actually happen...

Do you also do blösfechten?

beast mode

At minute 3:00 you were structurally better positioned than she. That wasn't that you were stronger

Longsword looks like the better weapon.

Good videos, keep them coming :) I have two remarks thou: Isn't it a bit unfair to match a one handed sword which would usually be used with a shield against a weapon used with two hands? The second one: My Langschwert teacher tought me that actually in the situation you show in the end the person that is pushing against the attackers arms raised in the air has ALWAYS a strength advantage. But of course this was in a "dry" situation without sideways movement so maybe it is not fully comparable. But if I understand correctly a person with similar strength would also not be able to attack downwards if you push against the arms, which is why you can try to run them through with the Feder and win.

Good video I enjoyed the commentary

What the hell do you mean by "respect for the weapon" when people speak like that nobody gets what anyone is saying!

Why are you barefoot?

Why you pickin on Brittany like that? 😹

К сожалению не знаю английский язык, но дно было пробито. Самая плохая работа мечом, что я видел в жизни. Мальчик Леша 35 лет

For a moment I was confused because "messer" is the german word for knife. So I thought WTF knife vs sword - how ridiculous is that! The right term would be "Langes Messer" (long knife) or "Kriegsmesser" (war knife) but I assume that the short term might be more comfortable to use. Anyways - nice video - I love the sparks ;-)

German native speaker here. Is naming historical weapons casual German words a thing to make it sound more epic? Messer literally means knife. Like the thing you use in your kitchen. At least in German you would never call this a Messer.

Das ist kein Messer :D

Wow I thought anime making swords spark was actually just fake

Sparring with commentary! Awesome!

The longsword player is, by accident or intention, allowing the messer guy too close and it's causing him to be out of measure often resulting in a close quarters situation against a weapon with easier options at short range. I see this a lot. Often, longsword players go for the bind but it's my opinion that the bind is the last thing you actually want. I believe that this comes from many people who study HEMA work most of their study in the bind which is good to know but they tend to forget the the intended distance of that blade is in the name "longsword". The safest place for you and most dangerous against the opponent of a shorter weapon is at max distance. This, coupled with Newton's Second Law of Motion makes the most dangerous part of the longsword at the last several inches. Longsword players can stop close quarters threats more often by staying controlled on measure and transitioning rapidly to posts that have the ability to make continuous, rapid fire attacks with the point if need be. Think in terms of not letting them get close enough to be a threat by providing your own constant but ever changing threat of the thrust from different angles. Makes it very hard to close distance on without getting stabbed. This concept takes a lot of practice and is hard to put into words but it's how I fight and honestly don't see many others do this. I also try to use posts that provide me the best cover while attacking or striking as a defense.

I’m glad to see swordsmanship alive and being practiced. Not only being practiced, but performed wonderfully. And such an array of people from all walks of like it seems. Which I love. Very cool!!

This was way cool. The sparks were rad. When that particular clip was played in real time you can hear the rhythm of the sword play in the fight. Very cool!

I notice that Brittany is sparring without much protection to the hips/thighs/groin (and I don't know what Sean has got under his shorts but it doesn't look like he has a lot of protection either). Also in several videos you have folk sparring with bare feet. Is this normal? Do you have some rule which says 'don't aim for unprotected areas' and how does that affect the way you fight?

Why the hell would you ever fight barefoot unless it's MMA? Fencing barefoot is like swimming in socks. Because of fencing barefoot you have more of your sole surface on the floor? Sure, you do have that... along with broken toes, as you can see in 0:56.

Wow, I've just thought about a scenario like this when I opened RU-vid and it's in my recommened. Glad it works for a change. Well, as far as I can tell it's actaully not a position you what to be in.

Could you explain your footwork at around 1:23? It's like you bent your toes in, then bent them back out again, then twisted your ankle to one side and then to the other. Did you trip and lose your balance? If so, you recovered it very fast, it looks like it was on purpose.

3:05 I am quite sure that was less on strength and more on weight and balance .

I noticed that the longsword has a rubber safety tip, but the messer doesn’t. Why is that?

This is awesome! Now i sort of want to see sword and shield vs 2 handed... I know shield isn't common practice, but maybe you guys can consider it?

Is the finger on your right foot blue? Dislocation

You call that a knife? THIS... is a knife!

Hit em in the feet it's unarmoured is all I keep thinking

Why is the other guy not wearing shoes? 0_o

Aka most swordfights in mordhau

Here because of chivalry 2

Now that’s a good intro

What's the music?

I like the commentary videos, really helps understand what's going on and why.

barefoot? You cra