Messerschmitt Bf 109 and Focke-Wulf Fw 190. Both were the backbone of Nazi Germanies Luftwaffe, but which on was the best ? Comparing both Warbirds in one Video while they were flying displays.
Great video, thank you! From all my years of reading about WW2, I'm 66 now I have found a few interesting things. At least they are to me. I have read that a 109 could out dive a Spitfire and out turn a P-51. I have thought that if I was a Luftwaffe pilot I'd want to fly a FW-190 on the eastern front but against the western Allies I'd want to fly a BF-109. The reason is that most air battles in the east were below 5-10,000 feet and the Focke-Wulf FW-190 is a great at low and medium altitudes. The Messerschmit BF-109 was better at high altitude which when you are attacking a formation of B-17's or B-24's at 25,000 feet the 109 was designed as a high altitude intercepter like the Spitfires and the P-51's. the Focke Wulf FW-190's began to lose power over about 15-20,000 feet. I know the FW-190 culd carry a lot more ordinance than a 109, but if I'm dogfighting a Mustang at 25,000 feet I'd want a 109. I have also read that after WW2 that a good number of test pilots were assembled and they flew every Axis fighter and all the Allied fighters except for the Russian fighters Their conclusion for best overall fighter to fly was the F6F Hellcat. And I can live with that even though I'm a P-51 freak and during WW2 my parents worked for Norh American building B-25's and P-51 Mustangs. And that's where my parents met. Yes, now I am a geezer.
Would be interesting how the Corsair would have faired against both in dogfighting. I know Greg's page did a technical analysis, but real world experience is the real test.
Some lovely footage. Thanks for posting. I have always preferred the Fw 190's lines, however I think the Bf 109 looks more brutal and war like. It must have been something else to see a Focke Wulf Ta-152 or the Dornier Do-335 flying when they existed.
@@hanswolfgangmercer Flying one in IL2-Sturmovik or DCS in VR is an experience that can maybe alleviate your yearning to some degree. I find it quite amazing and I can recommend it.
There was a Dora 9 that sold a few years back for like $600,000 USD with the original cannons as well. I was so disappointed it sold and hope whoever has it keeps it in good condition and finishes the restoration to make it fly again. It is I believe 1 of if I remember right 2 or 4 left known to exist, and only 1 of them is in flying condition but the one that sold a few years back could easily be restored, and has the original Jumo 213A engine as well. I think the Smithsonian has the other D9 that is in good condition if I remember right.
Fw 190 better at low to medium altitude, Bf 109 better above, although the "Dora-9" was equal to late war Bf 109s at high altitude. Late war Bf 109s out-accelerated and outclimbed any other fighter, save perhaps late war Spitfires.
That is not all entirely true see my comment above. Also the 190's were known for their short term burst of acceleration which a 109 could not match. Even the early model 190 A's albeit medium to low alt fighters had incredible acceleration with Wartime Emergency Power.
Watched the video and the subtitles and was wondering just that: is the comparison of a Gustav 109 to a Anton 190 entirely "fair"? Would the appropriate one have been a Dora? But there was constant progress. In the end there was a 109K, but then there was also the Ta152.
Thanks for the upload! As a military is always enjoyable to see these old war-birds in action. Both where fantastic machines of their time from a pure technical perspective. With the octane problem in mind I really must give it to engineers how they could get such fantastic performance from them. Anyhow Great Channel with many enjoyable videos. :P Gives me something else to think of during boring ours of duty...
IMO they were equal "pains-in-the-ass" for the RAF and USAF and both can hold their heads up equally high. However, for me the 109 is a better looking girl and she has an awesome soundtrack to boot. I would be extremely honoured to see either perform at an airshow.
@@guyfromthe80s92 Because if you were intelligent you would know that throughout history vehicles such as boats, ships and aeroplanes are often referred to as feminine due to the fact they carry people inside them. I suggest you go to school before making any more dumb-ass and stupid remarks in future.
@@guyfromthe80s92 because no real man wants to ride a male. This is why all vehicles are considered female. Plus everything goes into them. Fuel, oil, etc. they all have female receptacles. Plus the only other thing truly fall in love with are such so cars, planes, boats, will always be female.
Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown was a British test pilot who flew and evaluated almost all German fighter planes of ww2. I think he said the 109 was excellent at climbing and turning, but in a fast dive the controls become very stiff and nearly useless. And he mentioned a problem with blinding frost forming on the windshields at high altitude.
What many don’t know is there was a huge maintenance advantage the BF-109 had over the Spitfire. It took the same amount of time to replace the 109’s engine as to rearm it. Thus, with 1 damaged Spitfire, and 1 damaged 109, the 109 could be on target before the Spitfire could get off the ground.
Hello - excellent video - leaving aside all the technical and performance issues, the 109 is a beautiful aircraft to look at...it looks like it wants to get up and fly when it's on the ground...in the air, it's look and sound, so sleek, like a hawk...I've seen vintage film of 109s in a "Schwarm", so impressive to see, like a hungry group of hawks itching to find prey in order to attack it...
Ive flown so many types of aircraft that Ive lost count and it always comes down to what job do you want it to do today? Carry a load or cross a mountain range? Do you need range on this job or can you sacrifice that for speed? Is fuel available at the next strip or not so what can you carry? I suspect it's the same with fighters in no one size fits all missions.
I'd say something like this: 1939-42: Bf 109 1942-43: Fw 190 1944-45: Bf 109 again. The problem with the Fw-190 is that once there were allied fighters that were fast enough to catch it, it really had no advantage at all. The 109 can at least defend itself in a maneuvering fight against a theoretically superior fighter. It's all down to pilot skill of course, and that's another area where the Fw-190 tends to shine, since it was easier to train a new recruit on than a 109, which takes a lot of skill to use to its fullest. It's a misconception that the 109 was retired in favor of the 190. It was retired in favor of the ME-262 and Ta-152, which were both aircraft of a totally different generation from the Bf 109s and Fw-190As that characterized most of the war. The 190 D-9 did replace the 109 in production, but this was intended as a temporary measure until Ta-152 production could get under way, it just happened that the war ended first.
I appreciate that you have no new footage to show, Was 109 or 190 the best is not a subject that any expert can comment on. The answer is YES, BOTH GOOD Aircraft. Variants etc, looking forward to new content post COVID,, good luck, you are an aviation fan and I subscribe ! Maybe you can contact the owners and get some new footage in the hangers ? The place where the airctart are and what has been done since COVID >??
Thinking that the 109 was better. Two reasons. Fuel injection and better high altitude performance. The Ta-152 was the evolution of both designs. But piston engine aircraft were obsolete later on. The ME 262 was just so much better. But by that point the Germans had virtually no more pilots and no fuel left to fight with.
The TA-152's were used to defend the air strips for the 262's to take off as they required a long take off time and climb time. 262's were not as great as people think, great firepower, but sitting ducks at low alt especially on take off.
@@Fluke2SS Actually they used not the Ta 152 but the Dora 9 to protect the 262 during take-off and landing. The Doras were called "Platzschutz" and were painted red with white stripes on their bottom, so the German flak could distinguish them from enemy fighters.
It depends on what you mean with handling. Starting and landing the FW 190 was alot easier and pilot-friendly due to its wide undercarriage, and also its cockpit was more modern and ergonomic, along with much better sight due to the modern canopy.
Nice video, but some points: 1.) The red ticker ("Laufschrift") is very hard to read, especially versus a green grass or grey concrete background. 2.) It contains plain wrong information, e.g. at 3:40: "The FW 190 took off in March 1943 the first time"??? It flew in mid of 1941 at the English channel against the RAF already. In case you refer to the A-8 version, this flew in 1944-45 only. And the Bf 109 G version also very late in the war, certainly not in December 1935.
The Fw190's performance was worse at high altitudes compared to the Bf109. It's a big deal because the Luftwaffe's fighter force was neck deep in dealing with bomber intercepts over Europe. A lot of those were facing high altitude USAAF bombers. IMO the 190 was a better fighter in general over the 109, but at high altitudes, that's where the 109 found its specialty. Mind you, the Fw190D finally gave the series a high altitude performer, but it arrived too late in the war having only started production in August 1944. The Ta152 was an offshoot of the Fw190 and a high altitude performer, too. But it was far too late when it entered service in 1945 as well as only 69 being built.
If you are going to make assumptions about the two planes, just remember to define agility better: The 109 had a tighter turn radius than the 190 and didn't suffer from low speed maneuverability issues. The 190 was more agile in the fact it had a better dive, roll rate and reversal that's it. The 109 could do everything better than the 190 outside of that and at all altitudes. If you want to know what the best version of the 109 was that never made it out of prototype stages: bf-109L Go look it up. It would have replaced the TA-152's and matched the late model Spitfires 20+ at all altitudes. One nice thing about this video is that 109 is a true 109, not a replica copy cat with an Allison engine. 2 ways to spot it engine sound, and rather or not the cowl under the nose and wings matches the original.
I can answer that with out watching the video.The planes are basically the same design,The experience of the pilot.For example give me a top class tennis Racket ,and John McEnroe a frying pan,I can safely say McEnroe would win.
Which one is better would also depend on which version of the three planes, and bout which chargersetting the mustangs are using, thus also, at which altitude they compete. The German chargers might be variable, yes. But Mustangs with high alt charger settings would perform better if they compete at altitude, while on the deck they have pretty equal output. That doesn`t even take into account other allied high performers like the P-47, the late Spits and the Tempest. And non the least, the pilots and their leadership are, what counts. Let`s face it, it never were just the numbers, why the Luftwaffe totally lost air superiority. They totally wasted their numbers during the Battle of Britain, in the Mediteran Sea and ofc in Russia. Sometimes due to incompetence, sometimes inexperience and sometimes, because they were simply outmatched. My old gliding instructor, may he rest in peace, was a Ju-88 pilot in the mediteran theatre. He was shot down several times due to heavy resistance from land, air and sea. He had quiet some storys to tell about what the Luftwaffe and German planes lacked or didn`t lack.
Некорректная постановка вопроса . Каждый хорош в своей области применения . Как фронтовой истребитель , лучше Bf-109 , а перехватчик " крепостей " лучше FW-190.
3:43 the Fw 190 flew for the first time in June 1939 and saw entry into production in 1941 :) it saw action around the same time as the Bf 109Fs on the western front and both proven to be an incredible duo againts the Spit MkVs
It makes me wonder how Friedrich is commonly overlooked by both historians and enthusiasts. It was a stepping stone in Bf-109 evolution. This version gave this machine that stremline look and rapid boost to performance with practically the same engine as Emil. It was a new aircraft, new wing, new engine cowling shape, new radiators. This machine outperformed almost every other fighter at that time in terms of speed (especially in dive) and rate of climb. It's agility was still decent thanks to light airframe and still not so big wing load. If Fws were that better than Spit Vs, then Friedrich must have been equally if not more feared aircraft. Am I the only one who sees some white spots here?
@@52down yes it was? Perhaps you arent digging deep enough? Me and my friends are enthusiasts and we are well aware of the effectiveness of the friedrichs and it's downsides it's pretty well known actually I think the only reason the fw 190 recieves more attention during the channel operations in 1941 is that it was the year the Fw 190 saw major action while the bf 109 has already been around for a while , it was also slower than the Antons which makes an average Spitfire MkV able to catch up in some circumstances since they are already familiar with the 109 but not the 190
i have to report that my dad were a air gunner in a b25 bomber he told me that the fw190 was the one they feared the most during air raids over france why he wouldnt say maybe because he lost many buddies in combat to this aircraft just a comment from the past
Well it's a brave man who's prepared to name the 'best' WW 2 fighter but a Merlin powered P51 is certainly going to out class a FW 190 A series in most respects, and most certainly at altitudes above 6000 m. Now the FW 190 D is a different matter of course but that aircraft isn't featured in this video.
@@startingbark0356 If you cherry-pick, the Bf 109 K is certainly associated with some pretty impressive stats. However, the airframe was very old by this stage of the war and arguably too old, to the point of obsolescence. Roll rate and elevator authority, in particular, were poor relative to what the Allies were putting into the air at the same time. If you wanted an aircraft that could go one on one with a P 51 or a Mk 14 Spit or a Tempest, I think your best bet would be a 190 D.
@@haroldgodwinson832 the spit and P-51 would out turn it as the BF109K has a tighter turning radius then the fw190 and the BF109K already wasnt the best dog fighter
@@startingbark0356 Again, you can take individual strengths and try and build a case but the simple reality is that the 109 was obsolescent by the time the G series came out. The zenith of the 109 was almost certainly the F. The airframe limitations were really starting to show beyond this point. And yes, the Spitfire was almost as old but the excellence of the airframe plus engine, supercharger and fuel technology kept it at the leading edge of prop fighter performance right to the war's end; and beyond. That doesn't mean that a 109 K couldn't succeed; of course it could, but it's a bit like putting a V8 in a Caterham. Yes, you can probably increase your top speed but the handling dynamics are likely to be shot to hell.
Die Aufnahmen sind super, aber der Erstflug der Fw 190 Prototypen war 1939 und der Erstflug der A-Modelle war schon 1940/1941 nicht erst 1943. A-1 ab Sommer 1941 beim JG 26.
@@Warbirds Es gibt einige Publikationen von Herrn Dietmar Hermann über die 190er Modelle. Was hört man von der Fw 190 vom Hangar 10. Bleibt sie dort? Und wie geht es dort weiter, schon was gehört?
@@Warbirds tolles Video. Die FW 190 war aber schon früher im Einsatz. So erlebte die RAF 1942 eine böse Überraschung, als sie bei der Unterstützung der versuchten Landung der Briten bei Dieppe auf die FW 190 stiessen. Salopp ausgedrückt wurde die RAF böse gerupft. Also ich hätte die FW 190 der BF 109 vorgezogen. Sie war, aufgrund ihres breiten Fahrwerkes, viel besser beim Starten und Landen zu handhaben. In diesem Sinne bleib gesund und halte dich munter. Sind schon seltsame Zeiten. LG Alex ☺☺
I know that a lot of people like the Bf 109 but Focke-wulf 190 is better at landing and in its early years it was better than the bf 109 because of the load of amo it takes and how much damage it can take.
It's amazing how they remove the swastika. Do they remove the Japanese rising sun emblem? No. Great video though! Me-109 shot down more aircraft in world history.
Hartmann wasn't a dogfighter, he had superior vision to spot the enemy first and said that gave him his biggest advantage and was most responsible for his success. He then pounced with a Boom and Zoom hit and run approach, he didn't go round and round. Not nearly as sexy, but allowed him to rack up the most victories while also keeping him alive and able to survive the war
@@ras6186 True but what's wrong with the boom and zoom approach? Worked for the P40 as well. Hartmann was very aggressive that's what made him a huge success. Held off firing until the enemy aircraft nearly filled his cockpit window. His main threat was from debris flying at him from the enemy's aircraft due to his close in style of combat.
The 190 was a masterpiece of engineering. Copied by the allied. It had technology no other WWII fighter had. A beginner or average pilot could fly and kill with a 190. The 109 was horrible to handle. Dangerous for a beginner. Completely unstable. Loved by experienced pilots.
@@Warbirds I don't think the video even attempted to answer the question in th title. Judged by the title I would be expecting more of a a side by side comparison and some kind of conclusion. An answer to the question. I mean there is the text, but otherwise this video for me is beautiful picture of the two beautiful planes on an airshow. Nothing more. But that's just my opinion.
The 190 was far more versatile and could be developed the 109 was a dead end and many thousands lost just in landing. The 109g would have no chance against a 190 long nose D
The G-6AS, G-14, G-10 and K-4 were more or less the equal of the D-9. The Bf 109 H (which was cancelled in favor of the Ta 152) could reach 750km/h, and some of the K series were also projected to reach that speed - about the same speed as the Ta 152, P-47N, P-51H etc. So the Bf 109 wasn't any more obsolete than the propeller fighter in general.
03:42 Didn't the FW-190A first start filtering into service late 1941, early 1942? I think it first flew well before March 1943. I expect the FW-190 to be 'better' than the Bf-109 - it was designed as a replacement after operational service with the the Messerschmitt. Was it 'better' than the P-51, a later design and another excellent fighter? Certainly no other single engine fighter could match the Mustang's range. Maybe the common factor was that the designers of all 3 were born and trained in Germany? Great footage- thank you very much!
Why "...even P-51" ? P-51 was medicore warbird but its range, numbers and the fact that its pilots could dictate at which height to engage German warbirds and they always choose heights most favorable to their plane meant their position was far more advantageous. Remove all mentioned and P-51 is really medicore.
FW 190 took off in 1943? Please....Are you joking? 🤣 In 1942 the 190 destroyed hundreds of enemies... ( And if you read some books, plus luftwaffe pilots, you will discover that the 190 A8 had not chances against P-51 and Spitfire IX ) Ask to yourself why HArtmann, Barkhorn and Rall always flew 109s.... P.S. Both are wonderful aircraft
me-109 был лучше,потому что на 33000 самолетах модель-109 было уничтожено 120000 самолётов противника на всех фронтах .на 15000 мустангах -п-51 уничтожено не более 5000 самолетов.газолине -98 ,что требовался всем -109им был хорошим потому,что фарбен индустри получал в основном из руминского плоешти .на советских самолетах использовали бензин основнои окт -66.самолеты 20000-фв-190 были несовершенные самоделки ,как и все самолеты фоккера .люфтваффе каждый день териалы 12 самолетов фв -190, по причине неисправностей синхрозизатора оружия.курт танк был агентом кремля из группы мартина бормана .курт танк принёс сталину в 1945 году проекты -та-183 и -та-383-этот был суперсоник самолет.когда бомберы начали уничтожать плоешти ,тогда немцы были вынуждены сократить время подготовки летчиков истребителей с 250 часов до 50 часов и германия проиграла войну .друзья вы же понимайте,что топлива для войны просто закончилось .м е-109 лучший самолет той войны .виллхелм эмиль мессершмитт гордость немецкого народа .немцы могли выиграть войну с 109 ими ,но чтоб не выиграли специально создали тот дурацкий фоккер фв-190 в 20000 количестве .точно также как передали 10000 самолетов фоккер 1922-1923 ленинским большевикам .англичане не разрезали самолеты фоккера .они знали хорошо ,что фоккеры помогли им выиграть ту войну.антон фоккер и курт танк похожие друг на друга -высота-лицо-телосложение и оба были подлецами.больше у меня нету времени .желаю удачи в исследованиах и устанолению истины
