Messmer's Past and Miquella's Plan - Elden Ring DLC Lore 

Just wait till you find out that Mesimer is Marika

Everyone in Leyndel hates snakes, and Tarnished Archaeologist's excellent video series on the erdtree convinced me that Mesmer is probably behind one of the burnings.

My brain just snapped into place; Messmer says in the trailer, “Those stripped of the grace of gold shall all meet… the embrace of Messmer’s flame,” and the exert at 3:28 reads that Miquella divested himself of “all things golden.” Messmer is going to try and kill Miquella and we will have to stop him, is what is quite literally being told to us. Furthermore, this would make sense as the voice in the beginning of the trailer claims that Miquella “wields love to shrive clean the hearts’ of men” and that “nothing is more terrifying.” Given this, it is likely that Miquella will indeed trick us to aid him, hence why we are fighting Messmer in the trailer; to protect Miquella.

I hope there is a lot more to Messmer than meets the eye and that he isn’t just some tyrannical despot to take out but someone with more layers and depth (and even some tragedy and sympathetic traits). Maybe he was sent to the Land of Shadow by Marika for committing some serious blasphemy both as a form of exile and a duty she foisted upon him to “oversee” the denizens as the whole land remains hidden, himself included. A loyal, dutiful son who committed some form of blasphemy yet still remained useful enough for his mother to grant him an important task in a faraway land, sort of like a combination of Filianore and the Nameless King from DS3.

A few things: Messmer was probably the one who originally built Volcano Manor and its ancient flame spells, was almost certainly the source of the Serpent taboo (and may have created the God-Devouring Serpent, as well, though that is highly speculative), and indeed likely was the source of Leyndell's ash (which *did* actually result in the Erdtree being transformed from a biological tree to a spiritual image of one, certainly). Furthermore, regarding the growing of a great tree of that sort: I would say it is possible that it requires a god's corpse as fertilizer. Certainly, the Erdtree was born as a result of Marika's time in the Land of Shadows, and her ascension as a goddess occurred there, implying that that was where she claimed possession of the Elden Ring. This would strongly imply that was where the former god who fled and left Placidusax alone ended up, and thus it would be quite conveniently the case that there *is* a divine corpse that would otherwise be unaccounted for, and which would be the perfect means to instill the new growth with a holy remnant to separate it from the alternatives. If something unique like that is required, then it would go a long way to explaining why the Haligtree stopped growing and failed to thrive once its source of divine blood in the form of Miquella was gone. And of course, we happen to have a divine corpse that *is* available, in theory (for the Sacred Relic Sword being made certainly didn't use up *all* of it, in the same way that presumably the same would be true if part of the corpse of the previous god/goddess was used to make the Godslayer's Greatsword).

When exploring Lyndell initially before you burn the erdtree, there is already ash. Perhaps this ash was from the primordial tree burnt by Messmer and replaced by the erdtree .

I'm not convinced. Messmer's dialouge in the reveal trailer makes him out to be a Marika loyalist. "Those stripped of the Grace of Gold shall all meet death. Embraced in Messmer's flame." He's clearly not opposed to the Golden Order/Erdtree. He seems to have his own reason for not wanting The Tarnished to medsle with the Erdtee.

Since everybody has their own theory is that Messmer is inspired by Zahak from Ferdowsis poems. A king with a set of snakes growing through his body who was imprisoned by Freadun, a guy with a hammer so it could tie into Marika/Radagon's hammer

Looking back on Melina’s dialogue after seeing the trailer makes me wonder if she is a duality to Messmer like Miquella is to St. Trina. This is especially so when your Grace is stripped in lieu of Frenzy. She, the kindling maiden of flames promises you that you are now going to meet Destined Death.

Incredibly happy to see this video from you, looking forward to hear your opinion on my theory.

I can't shake to idea that radagon seems like the golden orders ideal version of mesmer. I feel like there is something there

8:48 I'm not exactly sure what the statue behind Messmer looks like, but if it is the same one that the handle of Scavanger's Curved Sword is modeled after, then it does in fact appear in the main game. That blade seems to hold more lore than it initially lets on.

Not sure if this has been picked up . But his spear looks very similar to the Erdtree guardians spear. Not sure if this is just a coincidence. The erdtree guardians are always around the minor erdtrees and they seem to protect these erdtrees.

This video makes me think Messmer may be Melina, or at least associated with her. It seemed really clear that Messmer was at least related to Marika, but one specific detail encouraging that theory is the presence of the smoldering butterflies in the lands between. Malenia is confirmed to make Aeonian Butterflies, It's pretty safe to presume the Nascent Butterfly is Miquella's (also supports why Miquella suddenly has lil fairy like wings in the opening sequence), and that left the smoldering butterfly unaccoutned for. Some theorized they were tied to Melina due to the blade of calling referring to her as "the kindling maiden" and "The one who walks alongside flame". This could make sense if Melina was some alter form of Messmer, who is also heavily themed with flame. It's not an impossible concept really, Marika and Miquella are both confirmed to have altered gendered forms (Radagon and St Trina), so if Messmer is also a son of Marika, it makes sense that he would have an alter form too. Then when you take the theory of concflict between Messmer and Marika from this video, Melina's mission seems akin to Messmer's, specifically the idea of being a kindling both for the natural growth and death of the Erdtree, and she has been supporting the player to help obtain the title of Elden Lord and allow the natural next step of the world's lifecycle. It also makes more sense why the game had heavily implied that Melina was a descendant of Marika, without ever truly confirming that detail. Apologies if this is something literally everyone already knew.

The lore makes my head swell with insanity and fire

I feel people are overlooking the clear Vlad Tepes reference in the name and iconography, the snakes do not seem to come from the shoulders but rather from his back. If Messmer is not an exiled child of Marika, he may be a "corrupted" version of Miquella. He is all things blasphemous to the golden order, and the text FS gave us said Miquella stripped himself from all things golden in his journey to the Shadowlands. What is clear to me, is that just like IRL Vlad, Messmer became what would be perceived as distasteful, blasphemous or evil in order to fend of a greater evil/threat.

Someone already pointed out that Shadow of the Erdtree shows two trees, one wrapped around another. I'm thinking the parasite one is the erdtree and it's leeching sap from the other one(crusible-representing Great Tree maybe). Messmer probably wanted to weed it out.

Miyazaki stated that nothing that happens in the Lands of Shadow will affect the Lands Between. So whatever Miquella is doing there it will only affect the Lands of Shadow.

I think everyone's missing what is staring us in the face: The shadow of the erdtree is Godwyn related. The other, charred looking tree resembles death root, and I propose the blood of godwyns corrupted flesh has grown the 'shadow' of an erdtree, which is what is strangling the erdtree

Very intresting video. The lands of shadow itself might be the place where the crucible (from which the erdtree was born) is found. And mesmer's fire powers are definitely tied to growth and vegetation as seen by the abundance of crop in the landscape, a place burned by mesmer.

Both Miquella’s last scene and the poster for the DLC show the trees without the veil above them. Maybe Miquella went there before the veil was placed or the veil will be removed

I just found out that Marika has bracelets that are snakes made of gold. Was that a punishment from the Greater Will or some relation to Messmer?

In Version 1.0 of Helphen Steeple Description there is a Mention about «Rune of Life» if Queen Marika Sealed Rune of Death, what she done to Rune of Life? maybe Sealed in Shadow Realm? I think Marika couldn't Be Eternal just with Sealing Destined Death She Prevent Herself from accidental Death but where her Life Force Coming From? maybe Seald Rune of Life In Shadow Realm Feed the Lands Between?

You should check out the Sumerian religion poems about inanna(Ishtar) as she’s an influence for marika, more specifically the poems about her huluppu tree, inanna and the god of wisdom, charge of the dark goddess and inannas descent into the underworld

I get the impression that Messmer is Marika's first child with her alter ego Radagon, I think this since in the first trailer of the DLC you can see a painting of an old man sitting and behind him a woman with her hand on him. belly, in addition to giving the impression of being pregnant, perhaps Marika obtained her "Goddess" status on this earth and thus created her alterego for the first time, this being the true dog of the golden will Radagon, in addition to the simple fact that The old man sitting that I said before later appears dead with a kind of golden root embedded in his body, I don't know... all this smells like a plot to me and that that old man was a victim of the goings-on of Marika and the Golden will, this theory is quite crazy but I'm sure that Messmer is Marika's son, I included Radagon's part basically because Messmer's hair is the one that most resembles his own of all the demigods, this can be verified with Radagon's talisman, his hair It was not completely red like Malenia's and others, but hers was more orange, a sign of the curse of the fire giants, although now I think, how can this be possible if Marika supposedly has not yet gone to the intermediate lands? That is to say, it hasn't finished off the giants yet, the more I investigate, the more questions I get than answers, greetings.

the ash could be from the dragon conflict swing as they use fire

What if the specteral tree of the erd tree is actually the shadow of the real erdtree that is under the Marikas viel in the land of shadow. Its pretty slim since its hinted that the great tree was burned before we get there and some of the other tarnished only see the stump of the old tree. Thoughts?

Something occured to me while watching, what if the haligtree failed before miquella left? Maybe he knew it was going to fail? Maybe his blood wasnt strong enough to turn it into an erdtree so he realized he needed some stronger form of erdtree sustainence. A full frontal assault on Lendell would've likely been suicide, but it would be aweful convenient if there happened to be another great tree that was less protected. In the teaser art we see a tree with another tree strangling it, and the sap seems to be pooling into some strange tower. It seems plausible that Miquella planted the strangling tree in order to gather the life force of this vieled great tree to help his haligtree grow. Maybe if he succeeds it would cause the populace of the land of shadow to die or something. Theres not too much proof, but it fits with the interpretation of miquella that he isnt as altruistic has he pretends, and dooming an entire island to die for the survival of another faction is the exact kind of moral quandry fromsoft likes putting in games just at a usually smaller scale. It certainly gives an explanation for just what "kind Miquella" is doing in the shadow realm.

I'm pretty much convinced that Miquella is intending to claim that tree. Given how Leyndell is already full of ashes when we first arrive, it is safe to say that the Erdtree has burned before and I guess that the Erdtree in the Land of Shadow IS that burned Erdtree and what we see in the image is a 2nd tree trying to keep it barely alive. Because of that incident, Marika stashed that burned Erdtree away and grew a new one in its place. However, it appears that the burned Erdtree has something that the new Erdtree does not have - Sap. This Erdtree appears to be the source of the Amber medalions. And my assumption is that Miquella wants to claim and convert that burned Erdtree. And Messmer is its destroyer/guardian that is keeping everyone away from its remnants

I think it works apart from their being any antagonism between Messmer and his mom. Marika popped out these two very driven kids, Melina and Messmer, and they seem to be treated as unruly, but respected. I think that Marika's objectives changed over time and she used to be a little less strict. But dealing with the golden order, ruling, and having dealt with raising a few dozen kids, she started getting really pissed off and frazzled. In the process, she becomes myopic. But I think it goes something like this: Messmer and Melina - These kids be too headstrong! I love them, but they're not going to work out. Godwyn - This kid is strong, but lacks potential. Mohg and Morgott - Well, those did not come out right... 30 random bastards with the staff - Just... Ugh... I guess I can use those walking mausoleums the golem people left around though. Ranni, Radahn, and Rikard - I split what I wanted into three babies and now they're all problems. Miquella and Melania - Let's try this self-fertilization twins thing again... Oh Me! It's a shota and syphilis-chan! ... "Messmer? Hey, it's mom... Yeah... Uh-huh... Shadow realm... Yeah, I saw Superman 2... Well, I had a falling out with your dad... Yeah, with myself... You were always so pedantic... Just... Dammit, Messy! Just... I'm sending a murderhobo and your sister to the shadow realm to help your little brother... No, not fucking Morgott... MIKE! Your brother, Mike. Anyway, the murderhobo and your sister are going to make Mike's dream treehouse a reality.... Okay... Love you too..."

Your past is his past now. He's going to be your phantom. Not some simple diversion - he'll act as the new Big Boss. And the act just isn't for Cipher - he'll be your face on the world stage. Until the time comes for your resurgence.

There's a big inspiration also with plants & grafting techniques.

I hope theres a DS 1 moment like if you did the DLC first sif would react. Hopefully something along those lines but for melina or malenia.

He looks SO badass

Gotta love the blade runner 2049 reference

I think Messmer is the shadow/unborn Miquella. Messmer seems like a corrupted Miquella and their characteristics mirror one another.

I still think he’s probably rykard kid. Snakes, same flame and red hair.

I wonder if there is any relationship between the theme of snakes and this supposed power of Messmer. It would be possible for Eiglay to embody this theme, constantly growing as it devours new beings, renewing itself as it sheds the skin, and being immortal; It also reminds me a little of how trees need nourishment (blood, bodies (pots), souls?) to grow, "thus does new life grow from death, and from death, one obtains power." as the ancestral spirit's horn, with leaf buds, says.

I just add that GRRM is big fan Sumerian stuff so likely was an inspiration

If a different theory regarding Miquella is correct, then Miquella isn't just onboard with burning the Erdtree, he organized a Plan to burn the Erdtree down using us, the Tarnished.

There are two parts in the trailer that are commonly attributed to Messmer. 1 is the "Messmer's flame" comment which I am certain is not him. The other is the "mother, wouldst thou" bit which I am not entirely certain is him. Everyone else seems to be highly certain of this and I'm not sure why. Never saw the man's lips move. Trailers are often intercut pieces that tell a little trailer story that may or may not be leaving accurate impressions of the larger picture.

i think mesmer wants to kill us (the elden lord) we did kill his family members lol

In terms of duality (having 2 souls in one body), the first letter of the names are always different I.e Radagon - Marika st Trina - Miquella I do not think Messmer- Mequella and Melina - Messmer Both have the same starting letters My strong suspicion/candidates are : Ranni - Messmer Rykaard- Messmer Why? She gives us the Torrent and mentioned it was entrusted to her by Torrent former master. I believe at some point , she was also in the land of shadow and must have met Miquella .

nice Blade Runner reference lol

I bet Messmer is the steward of the tree that’s wrapped around the other. Also has anyone mention the connections with the imagery of Gondor’s crest from LOTR the steward of the white tree Denethor says “I will not bow to such a one, last of a ragged house long bereft of lordship and dignity” then tries to burn himself alive.

I think Messmer is is Marikas brother from the one god, the greater will. We see Miguella is blonde and Malenia is rouge. We see that Radigon is Red Headed and Marika is blonde. However, Radigon isn’t a real person, he is a rune of order within Marika put forth by the greater will to try and keep order of the Erdtree. So the genetic precedent had to come from somewhere. I think Marika and Messmer are both from the land of Numen and they control their own respective regions to keep order. I think Miquella left to start over finding a way to escape Mohg because he had no other option and now we need to save him so he can be the true leader of the lands between for rebirth using the stone from Renalla.

The winged snakes make me think of Quetzalcoatl

Seems that Marika is Griffith, pulled off the 'Eclipse to bring in her new order.. so is Miquella Griffith 2 ? Or a savior.. maybe he left his St Trina fate to become Messmer..

the one who makes trees grow right.

Marika...? *America fuck yeah theme plays*

It's possible that the reason we need to defeat radahn is so we can sail to go land of shadows, miquella's hand is just to communicate with him

I think Messmer being chill with Marika might actually be the missing link to so many unanswered questions in the lore surrounding Marika. Marika is the god of the Greater Will and the embodiment of the Elden Ring, and yet has seemingly had so many connections behind the scenes to plots or people opposing it. She sent Godfrey and the Tarnished into exile so that she could call them back when she needed to. She told Hewg he would forge a weapon that would kill a god. Numen, the kin of Marika, became the Black Knife Assassins who worked with Ranni to murder Godwin. She probably told Melina that her purpose was to burn the Erdtree. These aren't the actions of someone trying to preserve the Order. Maybe Messmer is the lynchpin of all her plots and Miquella is going to try and either help or usurp them for his own ends? Either way, I just hope we get some answers to some of the mysteries left in the lore and not just more questions!

Miquella is using the tarnished the entire time

Sorry if I'm late. Why was the word cells flashed?

Great video what if Mesimer is rykard before he is eaten by the snake god

The last line of dlc lore suggests miquella wants to return to promised land. Asif trapped there.

Messmer being the 'true' first-born of Marika is interesting - in the same way Godfrey is not really the "First Elden Lord" (that was at least Placidusax) perhaps Godwyn is not really the first born (if he is indeed thought to be the first-born, given his 'golden' or elevated status often attributed to the first born child). Even if the Omen Twins were actually the first born there is still a pattern of concealing children born of Marika leading to Godwyn being now considered the eldest child and with that the added status within the royal family.

I think when messmur is talking about his mother and references someone devoid of light that he is talking about miquela, he divested himself of his lineage and (his light?) everyone knows that tarnished don’t have any light so to me he is for sure talking about miquela.

I’m pretty confident the main tree in the game is a fake. You can constantly find dead bodies within it or people who look like they turned to stone. The whole point of the golden order was to have life sucked in and pushed back out of that tree but it looks like waaaaaaaay before the shattering even happened there are dead bodies just frozen in time in that tree. Same goes for all the corpses you see of giants throughout the game. My guess was that the order came into existence. It was great. People stopped coming back. Not so great. People noticed that revive was turned off and decided yo let’s have another war. Then the shattering happened. The rest of the world found out once Godwin was slain that people don’t really be coming back. Just shells or husk of themselves. Hope this helps.

Am I the only one who thinks messmer is the body of Miquella and that when he says mother he is referring to the Formless mother instead of Merika?

If I understand correctly, Miquella pulled a ranni in abandoning his body, which means Mohg is trying to impress a lifeless shell lol

I wonder how pre-dlc lore and post dlc lore will pan out. People sound maybe too confident

luigi, this theory is mad! they must be calling you mad luigi or something!

We need a good explanation for why characters from the main game don't talk about what happened in that land that wiped out to the shadow helm, not even a mention.

i think a lot of this theory holds weight but i’m a little iffy on “miquella wants to work together with messmer to burn the erdtree!” i feel like “working together” might be closer to something like “having the tarnished kill him and get a special item.”

Messmer being potentially associated with a god of vegetation, and Miquella being associated with abundance... Things that make you go hmm 🤔

Mesimer is Miquella

As Radagon is Marika, Mesmer is Miquella. Hint: Mesmer (Mesmerize). Miquella can control people with his power…can make people love him against their will. Here’s my theory….Miquella was corrupted by Mohg and Formless Mother…. An entity corrupted and took over Miquella’s mind

Interlinked

George Martin did phenomenal work with Elden Ring, and according to Miyazaki…Mesmer is just one of the many works Martin did that Miyazaki couldn’t fit into the base game

Miquella is Messmer….. it’s gonna be such an obvious thing once the DLC is out.

Hey I saw that. Was this all just a baseline test?

Would Messimer be from the Numen race?

Bruh, nooooo.

god's plan

that we won't get an actual new ending is kind of dissapointing, considering how there really are only 3 endings, really. (burn everything, leave it behind, or reform) Makes me curious what michael saki is trying to tell with the dlc and miquella, my fear is that the entire story will be about chasing dreams that never will be and that the small m might just die and leave us stranded in a pit of "guess this is it", with no consequences on the broader story and no new meaningful knowledge of whatever else is going on. I just hope it doesnt end in a huge nothingburger is all- we'll see.

WOW A NEW SNAKE BOSS. HOW RARE... ITS NOT LIKE THE GAME HAS A BOSS SNAKE ALREADY.. HOW BLASPHEMOUSLY INTRIGUING.

Based on track record, his plan is sitting in his arena doing absolutely nothing make some vague allusion and then get put down by the like a trash mop for XP

Could it be possible Messmer is the father of the empyrian twins? I know we're beaten over the heads with Radagon being their father, because it would still fit the naming convention and add more reason as to why the twins are cursed at birth. And it would still hit on the incest angle that GRRM loves so much, since we know Messmer is Marikas son. Idk, im stoned and now second guessing how it fots the timeline but i thought it was interesting to think about

Lfg!

I normally avoid this guys videos ever since I saw that god awful boss tier list, but I’m starved for content so here I am

Group think

Hear me out. Messmer is to Melinia as Malenia is to Miquella

I don’t think Mesmer can be Marika’s eldest for two reasons. His hair is red like all the children of Radagon and his name starts with an M like the other children of Marika and Radagon.

“Touch thy withered arm and _follow me_ to the land of shadow. I won’t be far _behind_ …” I always thought this was interesting wording. When following someone, they’re generally thought to be _ahead_ . It kinda suggests we actually might be going back in time to reveal whatever Miquella has been up to.

bro is rikard and marika´s son.

10 minutes long to ensure max ad revenue

Messmer is mequilla or his alter ego, just like Marika he's the perfect son, having two split personalities just like mommy, miquella used to charm others being so majestic and "holly" to some extent, Messmer is to "mesmerize" thus his name, or so i think

Wrong, he is obviously the bastard love child of Godfrey and Radagon

Man you guys are over kill with these videos. Making none stop videos on a dlc that’s not even out yet… let the game come out dam. So dam weird. Sweaty behavior indeed

It’s a me Mesmario

Hello thnk u for uploading ❤ do you think Messmer will be the big bad of the DLC?

There's a room in Leyndell locked with golden sap and Miquella's lilies growing around. People in Leyndell literally had Miquella's lilies growing under their windows. Isn't it pretty ?

The dlc ain’t even out and y’all are trying to milk it