Very good review. You can see the passion you guys have for flight simulation. X Plane may not have the biggest budget, but they love what they're doing.
2 of the most important things. Smooth operation and function. It's harder to enjoy and to learn if certain things aren't accurate. I really do believe if software engineers and the manufacturers get closer to the fine detail, which is so close nowadays, you will see a great product combo. I run FSX, P3D, and Xplane 11. The sim most used...? Xplane 11. 2 reasons. More realistic feeling, and the creator...Austin, who has passion about his work... non stop and personal, hands on explanation and exploration. That is a product worth investing in! Thanks Michael for this channel and all the hard work. It's appreciated!👍🛩
@MiG-23 I have heard of their 737 style yoke, and I love their cockpit instruments, but they never seem to have the yokes available. They do seem to be a bit cheaper than Brünner, but from my research Brünner has more mature software and force feedback rudder pedals to match, so I would think that at the $2000 USD price range, you might as well go for the Swiss yoke.
Everyone always forgets about the CH yoke which comes with a throttle. That is an affordable yoke that covers everything for the budget. And I like it far better than the Logitech... Feels better, lasts longer. Used mine for 20+ years
Have you actually purchased the logitech? I doubt it if you state you used the CH for the last 20 years. The Logitech (Seitek) is obviously much more realistic and has a more realistic but separate throttle quadrant. 20+ yrs means its time for newer, more realistic, better performance.
I am a Phenom 300 real pilot im Brazil and a I have Logitech and it’s really difficult to use in pitch but with some flights you get it. I am happy with my Logitech. Thank for your videos.
You always provide such great info. I have an older PFC/MFD sim that I am about to update to USB. It is no longer supported by Precision Flight Control (drivers, X-plane 11). I will have plenty of room in a single car garage and am working on sufficient power, computers (two PC towers) and monitors. Thanks for your videos. Any additional pointers or recommendations appreciated.
I am using all CH gear: yoke, pedals, throttle quadrant. bought everything used. Each was around 50€. I believe that is the way to go when you really want to safe money or are just starting to get into flight sims like me and are not sure how long you will do it. I would be interested how you compare the CH products against Logitech. Thx.
I could do with a quadrant. I have the CH yoke (along with TM pedals) and I like it mostly, but the throttle is in such an awkward spot to reach especially while landing.
From what I'm hearing the Honeycomb is fine maybe even great for GA aircraft. However on a Boeing jetliner it is unclear what to map them to or even if they can be mapped. So I would like to see a review from someone who flys a Boeing.
Thank you for the video, this helped me a lot! Do you have a video for throttles and rudders as well? I am having the hardest time selecting an affordable throttle and deciding if I need to spend a lot more to get something better than Logitech's rudder.
Good review. Bear in mind the Saitek/Logitech yoke has a significant dead zone on both pitch and roll axes, which cannot be eliminated with a joystick calibrator. The other two (as I understand) do not have the dead zone. Logitech, for some reason, sees the dead zone as a feature and refuses to do anything about it. If you are willing to do a bit of Frankenstein, you can add a BU0836A device to eliminate the dead zone.
The YOKO is incredibly overpriced in my opinion. Should be like $500 max. They simply take advantage of the fact that hard core simmers have money and don't hesitate to spend it.
Would you advise a physical setup with yoke and controls and panel or a VR setup? I bounce between trying to a stitched image with two projectors or doing a setup similar what you have or going VR with oculus. What are thoughts on 2020 MS sim? I'd like to build a system they could run it as it looks amazing in the previews thus far.
Any suggestion on a throttle quadrant for the Honeycomb yoke till they release theirs? I have a Logitech but it's not compatible. It uses a circular DIN plug.
They made a separate USB version too. I use two of them and it does the job tbh. Just waiting until their bravo throttle quadrant comes out. It is amazing
I have but have not yet used 2 Logitech quadrants. Both have ps2 cables. However, there are ps2 to usb adaptors. Just waiting for them to arrive to try to connect them.
@@JamesHawkins54 That wont work, as the ones that have the ps2 cables don't have HID controllers (if i am not wrong). you have to use the logitech yoke
Cao Bara I hope you have better luck pairing the 2 yokes on one system than I have. It seems unlike the other simulators out there, X-Plane will only recognize one at a time. You must unplug one to use the other. At any rate good luck 🍀👍 and enjoy 😊 the flying. ✈️
I am curious about your table. It looks like a simple foldup one. In any case, what type is it and is it stable? It doesn't seem to rock when you push or pull on the yoke, I problem I have.
Thank you for this demonstration. I got xplane a few months ago, I was on P3D. My computer is a proc-intel i9-9900k motherboard Asus XI HERO, video card nvidia RTX 2080, Windows10 Pro. I have Saitek products for several years (FSX) Pro yoke flight, rudder pedals, throttle quadrant (6 controllers) all that works very well but in terms of switch panel, multi-panel and radio panel is a problem (with driver or without) the computer recognizes them but not xplane. It is fine new equipment but we should be able to cotinuer with older products. Thanks for reading me !
J.C. Ben I use the multi-panel and radio panel with X-Plane without a problem. Maybe just a driver issue? Also, check out the Xsaitekpanels plugin for X-Plane. @Michael Brown please ask Austin to add Saitek/Logitech panels to the joystick screen in settings so we can assign the buttons to functions. They added the Honeycomb in record time. Thanks!
I don't like desktop mount. I need the space. I purchased a Wheelstand Pro for m Saitek yoke. Is the Honeycomb, out of the box, capable of being mounted to the Wheelstand Pro?
With the logitechs stuttery pitch axis would it be potentially helpful to throw some grease on the shaft to help with that? And does it return to the 0 position accurately?
The main problem of the Logitech isn’t the spring of roll and pitch axis, it’s a problem inside the gear, there is a pin who is responsible to control the roll axis, this pin generate a friction between the aluminium bar when you command the roll and pitch at the same time, that’s why this “stutter” occurs. And the commons solution (rubber band, grease, etc) will never correct this issue. The only way to get smooth control is removing this pin and find a way to control de roll axis with another device, or you can try disassemble the yoke and try to modify the center of the yoke to reduce this friction.
Honeycomb yoke is covered in that very nice looking matt rubberised finish. However, after a number a few years that finish is likely to self-destruct and become a horrendous sticky mess. The Logitech can be easily modified to remove those hard detent springs and replaced with rubber bands. If it were not for that ticking bomb finish I'd have spent more on the Honeycomb, but knowing what's coming I won't buy one. I have too many sticky black joysticks and electronic items already.
I prefer my good old ch flight yoke and pro pedals. These have resistance in both roll and pitch axes. It is good price and reliable. I would complement it with an honeycomb throttle quadrant
I put this comment on a similar video, but I think it is worth repeating. None of these yokes ever properly simulate actual trim settings. In order to do that a motor must move the center of the spring rather than unnaturally moving the yoke to center while simultaneously trimming. Simmers get used to that but it would be nice to do it for real. I modified a yoke years ago by adding a screw that moved the yoke center spring for real trim. Remember, on a real plane elevator trim reduces the force on the yoke but you do not move the yoke to do that. Even better would be a yoke that changed the spring force with airspeed. Oh well.
I'm pretty sure that you have a faulty LG Yoke there mate because mine has no 'sticky' areas of travel, not one - although I did use some silicone spray on the shaft from day 1 as it was dry (metal to plastic will always grab). The radius is of concern but most people just don't care, me included. Honestly, my yoke is smooth and accurate, so I'm thinking it's a batch issue as mine is not that old - it works as intended (I prefer HOTAS any day but decided on the LG desktop cockpit). But that honeycomb just looks wrong, way too glary with some kind of trade-mark glow and 'honeycomb' dash, which looks awful. And I also don't like the thickness of that shaft, which will become a problem with time I'm sure. And it's bulky, very odd shaped and hard to use with other gear, unlike the LG that can have multiple panels/gauges screwed to the top. So that was my thoughts on why I'm giving the Honeycomb a big miss and will wait for something better as my replacement yoke down the track. Blue Skies.
Maybe a stupid question..... will the Honeycomb work with the other accessories from Logitech for example the Logitech G Saiten Pro Flight Instrument Panel?
Thanks Michael, but if you are doing a comparison of all three you really do need to get a ruler out (and ideally a spring balance too) as otherwise it's too sujective.
It is all subjective regardless. I don't have $1000 dollars for a Yoko, so its specs are completely meaningless. I have a CH Yoke that gets me by, but I have had hands on both the Logitech and the Honeycomb(at Sun n' Fun 2019) and I can tell you the Honeycomb feels very good and the specs are again meaningless. I don't care that the it can go 90*(even if that is close to realistic deflection to most small planes) but, again, the precision of the Yoko means squat to me because I can not afford it. I am getting a Honeycomb, and that's that.
@@ImpendingJoker Of course the buyer's choice is ultimately a subjective and personal one, influenced by their particuler preferences or means. But before that comes objective comparision of facts about cost and capability. And when making comparisons, one has to use measurements. That's why cars are compared by measurement: such as fuel consumption, 0-60 time, accomodation, size, top speed etc.
@@rigilchrist If anyone is really curious, they can look up the specs on Honeycomb's website. It's not necessarily Mike's job to provide every little detail. We all have a web browser ;)
@@p4rsec Indeed, we do. But Michael is a reseller, as am I (though in a different field). I'm just suggesting he does what I do, when advising customers.
This would be up to the sim as they're separate devices. For X-Plane no problem, and I imagine also for anything else that could be called a "sim" they're all easily capable of utilising many input devices simultaneously.
When I put my simulator together, I had no idea 💡 That I could get a honeycomb and a Yoko seemed like a lot of money 💰 for the difference in what you got. Having flown the Logitech for a while now I probably would spring for the Honeycomb with switches rather than the Logitech and switch panel I have now. But that’s old news and I love 💕 flying X-Plane even if I had to do it on a bucket with a broomstick 🧹
Hi what type of computer would I need? Wht processor, memory or graphics required? Could you recommend a computer from Amazon that already meets those parameters
Hello Michael, From the pictures I got the impression, the steel axis of the Honeycomb yoke is rather thin. Can you say something about the to be expected vulnerability of the axis?
Hi Michael. I am a GA pilot having logged close to 2K hours in low wing a/c. I currently have a CH products control yoke to augment my IFR currency but have a difficult time landing the Cherokee 180 (A2A Simulations)..gets very sloppy close to the flair and more often than not I end up porpoising and using up the entire runway. It never dawned on me that the problem may be the cheap yoke. Would there be a noticeable difference upgrading to Honeycomb and is it compatible with CH Products quadrant?
YoKo Yoke hands down, you gotta fly with it to understand. If I couldn't afford the YoKo I'd consider the Honeycomb but truthfully, I don't like switches on my yokes, they just get in the way.
Real planes have switches exactly where they are on the Honeycomb yoke, and very often even underneath the yoke itself, in this regard the Yoko is not realistic at all.
@@DaugBiscuit depends what plane, guys stop speaking absolutes, you are playing a game not flying a real plane, there is little realism Switches make it easy to just get quick access to assigned things If you like something cleaner fair enough Also the yoko yoke case takes up a lot of space on a desk to have nothing on it so there is also that Depends on what you want
@@Cloudybox12 well, and the fact that there are now things like the Honeycomb that are just fine. Most people can't afford to spend $1k just to get a nice yoke. It's not even about "understanding", it's about *we can't afford that shit* and until now everything budget was basically garbage. The Honeycomb fixes that :)
Hi Michael I was looking at your videos on how to connect the g1000 bezel to x plane. I got x plane 11 and I am having problems connecting thoes bezels. the problem I am having is this excutive file you said that x plane downloads I dont know where to find that file. you talk about it but you didnt say where you find it. can you please help me? and if other people are seeing this file can ull help me out with connecting this g1000? thanks in advance
The reistance is there whether it is hooked to a PC or not. The resistance is built-in. It is not force feedback. You might be thinking of the Brunner yoke.
But nonetheless, the Honeycomb is better than the Logitech and still within my budget so it's what I plan on buying. Really like your videos Michael... They've been extremely helpful already. I will be very well prepared once I pull it all together. TY!
no mention of how they translate the force feedback, if i am spending money on something i want to see how it is with this. It's like comparing logitech to thrustmaster and fanatec in the racing world - all about the fidelity.
Aerosoft states on the website that the Pitch Axis of the HoneyComb has 15cm of travel. Yoko in their website states that it has 14,4cm of travel. You say that the Honey comb has 50%-75% the travel of a Yoko, i don't understand.
Kelsey is a REAL 747 pilot. check out his channel at 74 GEAR . He chose the Honeycomb for the most realistic. That's what he uses and that's what he said is very close to the way it really works. This video here was made in 2019 I see. so a year and half have passed, so check out Kelsey on this 74 Gear. he has used both Microsoft simulator and X PLANE.
My Saitek throttle quadrant had a PS2 connector that only connects to the Saitek yoke, so I had to buy a new Saitek throttle quadrant with the USB connector. You can't use a ps2 to usb connector as the ps2 needs to be plugged into the Saitek yoke to work.
I have this throttle quadrant and it's quite sturdy for an all plastic unit. You must've been brutal with yours and suggest that you NEVER fly a real plane as you will give your instructor a heart attack.
I appreciate the comparison. I wish you prepared more for the video. You could have used a travel scale to measure the resistance on the axis, also got the specs on the travel etc...
It's a bit misleading going on manufacturer's Recommended Retail prices. The Logitech is often discounted but the Honeycomb is never discounted by much. When you use realistic prices, the Honeycomb is nearly three times more expensive than the Logitech and the Logitech includes a decent throttle as well
Why is the Saitek (Logitech) Cessna Yoke never considered? Mine has no detent and turns 90 degrees and is very smooth in operation. I do not like the button placement but that is personal so I rarely am inspired to use it.
Because it has the same internal workings as the normal Logitech yoke. The only difference is the shape of the yoke itself, it is still the same electronics on the inside, so it not really needed for comparison also Saitek stopped making them well before Logitech bought them out, and they never put them back into production, so it is hard to even find one these days for a decent price.
It really isn't. I've bought three in the last couple months. Sporty's Pilot Shop has them for $249. If you order they will ship in a few weeks. I ordered one on Nov 20 and received it a couple days ago...less than 3 weeks. If you must have one sooner, I've seen them on eBay in the last week for under $400.
@11:30 when you are talking about the very best what about the Brunner Yoke www.brunner-innovation.swiss/product/cls-e-yoke/ - how about a comparison of Yoko v Brunner ?
YOKO specs are 60 degrees for aileron deflection and 144mm or 5.7" for elevator deflection. Yoko increases resistance on roll to simulate increased force on control surfaces in real world. Real world pilots don't yank and bank the yoke with 90 degree deflections. Hence resistance is essential to emulate real aircraft feel. Your conclusion is correct. The Yoko is worth every penny. My rig is used for real world training support.
ALSO - The Yoko requires input via trim wheel adjustment to be applied to release both forward and backward yoke pressure in pitch. This is what makes the Yoko suitable for support of real world training. A student pilot can save the cost of the Yoko many times over. The Yoko demands precision flight control.
@@rmm9676 This would be the case for any controller that "wants" to return to centre and requires constant force to keep it out of it though, wouldn't it? It's probably a nicer feel with the Yoko due to having higher resistance but the only way you wouldn't feel that would be if the controller would stay in position with no force applied.
@@rmm9676 You assume that, but student pilot's aren't made of money. The Honeycomb is an excellent value for the money, and the Yoko is just frankly too expensive for the average aviation enthusiast. You don't have to have perfect "realism" to practice in a flight sim. The idea is more about maneuvers and protocol and practice, not being absolutely perfectly simulated in every way. if that was the case, no layman would be able to afford simming because you'd need a full-motion sim.
@@sldfnslkxxlk Just watch Austin Meyer comment on the Yoko. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--4ahrAIXUog.html I have used Saitek and CH Products and am happy to see the Honeycomb. But for and in support of real world flight training, the Yoko will pay for itself. Reduce for time to PPL by just five hours and your Yoko is free.
@@p4rsec Never said anything against the Honeycomb. Never said flight sims have to be perfect. But in support of real world PPL training, the Yoko is worth every penny spent and will serve you for a decade. Glad to see the Honeycomb in the market. But for sure, the Yoko is a great value over time. The Yoko will pay for itself over and over as one progresses in training. See Austin Meyer fly the Yoko here. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--4ahrAIXUog.html
I was impressed with the honesty of Austin’s review which included the great feel of the Yoko but the horrible switches. The fact that you left the Yoko switches out of your review makes it feel as a viewer like you have been asked to do so by Yoko.
Saitek/Logitech throttles are rubbish...after about a year of use.... I have had to rewire my ones 3 times so far to stop the spiking which made me give up flight sims due to the spiking issues. The pots Saitek/Logitech use you can not get unless you buy them in lots of a 1000 of them as they are a custom type. If I had a 3d printer I would use it and design a better quadrant and use readily available pots and just use the Saitek/Logitech boards. So I am going to go for the Honeycomb yoke and throttle and get back in to flight simming again. At least Honeycomb have a 5 yr warranty on their stuff.
The Honeycomb throttle quadrant is going to be fantastic, especially because it includes a trim wheel and gear lever and already has 6 axis and extra knobs for GA. I bought a Logi throttle quadrant to tide me over. Any recommendations on mods/care to make them feel better? they definitely feel very plastic-y
I'm going to just come right out and say it: I'm in love with Michael Brown and I want to touch his yoke. I want to grab his yoke and pull back on it, maybe even push it in. I want to roll that yoke back and forth in my hands until he tells me to stop. Wait - OMG he has TWO yokes???? Heaven. Hold all my calls.
IMO the Logitech is just a poor value, if you cannot afford anything better get a high quality joystick instead, you can get T16000M for less money and it is much better product that will make flying a lot more enjoyable.
@Colin Baker Than you are describing a different product ;) They used to make a Cessna yoke in the past which had 90 degrees rotation to each side. The current one is 45 (or 90 in total) and the detents mean that you cannot control the aircraft in the same way as you would IRL (which is why so many simmers have such a deathgrip on their controls) I am extremely picky when it comes to HW so I might be more critical than most people, but I am fairly convinced that the saitek/logitech yoke makes flying unnecessarily more difficult, frustrating and causes creation of bad habits, small travel distance requires fine control movements, detents and just a poor construction overall make fine movements of the yoke impossible. The Cessna one might be better, I have not tried that one, but it also isn't being made any more.
Logitech is the best because: You pay far less money and you can fix it´s 2 problems in about 1 hours all together for extra 25 pounds. You can fix the physical issues modding the "spring" system and you can add the board mod and wire the axis to kill the dead zone. Then you get the mixture and powers, you can replace the handles for custom made ones to make it feel more premium :)
