The purpose of this video is to help educate beginner/hobby welders about weld strength vs. appearance when using smaller hobby welder machines. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for sharing. I'm one of those beginner/hobby welders and my take away is basically the wrong tool for the job. 120v maxed out for 3/8 material? Why is the flux core weld so much stronger than the MIG? How would stick welding compare to MIG at 120V?
I thank you also for showing this. I'm not much of a welder but some days I do good other times what was I think. I use stick and wire at work, some of mine looks great some not so and some of my good welds hold and others break or crack.
Tell tale sign is the sides of the weld are not 'wetting in' which is term known by welders which means the edges are bulging rather than smoothly blending into the parent metal. You can overcome these issues by pre heating or running hotter.
I see the comments all the time on Facebook. People will take one look at a photo of a high production stringer weld that used dual shield or spray, and it's the worst thing they've ever seen, the welder was lazy, didn't know what they're doing, blah blah blah. But as soon as something has little consistent weave lines in it (or worse, a huge row of overlapping tacks), it's automatically a perfect expert level weld. The stack of dimes obsession on the internet is out of control.
A consistent weld is better than a pretty weld. Consistent weld yields the proper penetration. Easy to lay a stack when its just melting the filler, as you aren't also trying to penetrate the product you are welding.
Precisely! Expecting an underpowered machine to do all the penetrative work for you, us both lazy and dangerous. Prep your work as if your own life depended on it, don't cut corners, or in fact, do! 😂
I did a bunch of videos on this exact thing on my channel. 100% running cold settings and stacking dimes to get the look results in poor fusion and very weak welds. Despite a ton of evidence presented in the videos I still had a significant amount of people say that’s simply not the case and say the numerous videos were wrong. To date nobody has provided a sample weld, cut and etch, or settings that will allow for proper fusion with some stack mig settings. Thanks for covering this, the more info out there the better 👍👍
Great video. I have always chamfered plate that is thicker than 1/4". A few moments on the grinder nearly always means better penetration, and I find the entire process faster and more economical when I can get away with a single pass. Thanks for the clinic!
Structural commonly uses dual shield, gas shielded flux core wire. Typically a larger wire than solid core wires and much higher voltage and feed rates. Get it set right and it's a quiet hiss. Can achieve insane deposition rates with full pen.
Thanks! Where were you years ago when I was learning while rebuilding a truck? Fortunately the steel I was working with was 1/4. My 110v machine said it could do 3/8 but I thought that was just marketing. I preheated with a small propane torch, and used 3 layers. It came out nice. Shock towers to a truck frame. They've held up.
Wow! This was an eye opener! Absolutely epic teaching points. I will remember this forever! Really shows you why the good welders grind in the steel to a 45 angle taper so the wire sticks better. Awesome! Thanks!
That’s also why a lot of pressure vessel piping and thick steel is welded with flux. You get a lot of good penetration and it burns hotter. Used to work for Halliburton myself.
Just glance at ur parameters in the cabinet, the flux column goes a few diameter larger than solid wire if I'm not mistaken, on the metal thickness not wire diameter
Dual shield is the best of both worlds. High productivity and great strength. Shop supervisor got upset too often because customer requirements for welding didn't permit solid wire processes. 100% CO2 with S6 wire in short circuit is brittle..
Have loved your content over the years. I am not a welder by trade, I do it for fun. I am by trade a Mechanical Designer. Had this been a bracket from a system I designed it would have been a double bevel weld (bevel dependent on material thickness) with at least a 1/16IN gap. I learned early that every design I submitted for stress analysis that had a T-Joint weld was sent back with a required bevel weld, at least on the side of the most stress. For the casual home/small project use, hammering a test piece is fine, but most of the work I did on designs required an accompanying stress report, so we knew who to blame when it failed :)... And you are correct, it does not have to be pretty as long as it is done properly.
short circuit mig should never be used on anything that matters over 1/4" thickness. Will is stick two pieces together, yes - is it strong, no. Excellent video Mr6061.
I was going to say you are asking a lot for a 110v/120v machine. I’m going to go out on a limb and say I doubt the specs say it can weld 3/8ths in a single pass on 110/120v, does it say it can weld 3/8ths in a single pass on 240v? If its a Millermatic 211 then 240v 3/8ths is the max size in a single pass (240v.) I think beveling the piece and using it on 240 if you can, if not multiple passes would definitely be the way to go along with beveling the piece you are welding onto the base piece, and even giving it a bit of a preheat if possible, do everything you can to give yourself the best chance of penetrating into the parent metal. You might even be better off using SMAW if that piece absolutley had to stay put.
@@jacksonfevthis. The 110 welders are certainly limited, but they sure have come a long way from the Lincoln Weldpak 100 I had near the turn of the century. You had to preheat 1/8” to get good penetration.
Seeing the first pass and the first weld seam breaking, I was about to write "hey, over here in Europe we use to do some weld prep". But you said it all in the end. Nice demonstration why weld prep is not just annoying work but an absolute necessity. Over here most newer welders are "synergic" machines, setting voltate and wire feed according to the current asked (which is set according to material thickness). One can override the presets, but they're commonly pretty good. If my welds have a hump, it's not the settings, it's myself - the hobby welder. This takes out a lot of completey bollox settings that only generate good looking welds with no penetration. Btw, 3M Cubitron fiber disks are awesome to grind bevels on thick plates before welding. Started to use them a couple weeks back and wished, I would have known about them earlier.
@@6061 The ones I have are called Cubitron II 987C. Got them from Ebay, but it was a French seller, which might not be very attractive outside of Europe. I recently saw in a video on RU-vid that there's already a third generation availabe, but I have no first hand experience with them. In my experience, the backup plate also plays a role. Had a pretty soft plate first, but the results haven't been very good when applying decent pressure. 3M of course sells their own backup plate, which I have found working quite well. It doesn't get soft when heating up, like thermoplastic materials would do. So maybe pay attention to that detail if you'd give the disks a try (they won't cost you more than half a kidney 😀) When seeing videos of people using the Cubitron disks to grind a bevel, it's hard to believe that it's not a timelapse. After trying it myself, I was quite pleased, despite the somewhat steep price per disk.
@@6061On Fire Welding uses them and recommends them in a lot of his videos. I think he has an Amazon store and he links them in video descriptions often.
Arc or stick welding is good too for better penetration than solid wire mig, mig spray welding works good too but you have to have a powerful welder and can not run vertical.
Yup, bought a boat trailer that needed work. There were welded-on tail light housings that should have been plenty strong enough to support one corner of the trailer. Peeled right off when I put a jack under it. Luckily whoever welded those didn't do the rest of the trailer.
Another benefit to using flux core wire is that it scares away the deer. And by deer I mean the varment standing over your shoulder trying to tell you what is the best way to do your job.
I bought an experimental aircraft kit from a small manufacturer. I saw the welder in action when i went to pick up thhe parts, helooked green. I asked if he was AWS certifired, the owner got angry and said no. BTW thy charge ALOT for their welded products. I cried fowl and didn't buy anything else from the guy. People have this idea they can simply visually inspect the integrity of a weld, tgey are wrong. A recent AWS certification is your best bet
Every weld instructor that taught me a process told the class "A pretty weld isn't always the perfect weld" but people do love to see dimes weaves etc. on every and anything
Just because it looks good, doesn't mean it is good. But if it looks bad, it may well be bad. If it looks bad but is indeed good, it still looks bad. Looks ain't everything, but they're something!
For short circuit transfer, you'll only expect up to 15% (of material thickness) penetration. With spray, you can expect up to 25%. These are not my numbers, they came from technical research papers that I've read, done by welding institutes. In welding school, we cut and polished 1/4" welded t-joints to see our penetration. You don't have to etch the surface, you can polish it mirror shinny, then slightly heat color it. You'll be able to see your weld cross section perfectly.
SAF I'm running with it. I never welded on 110. Might some day now that I have machines that will. But the big outlet works so much better. SAF indeed.
So first off ANY WELD would break this way. Your applying tension to the side that isn't fused. Even if you somehow penetrated half way into the base metal, the outcome would be the same.
I taught welding. College level certification courses specifically. This demonstration was predictable, as MIG or Metal Inert Gas is not structural. For Steel, structural processes are Dual Sheild, Flux Core, or Stick. Lift arc TIG on natural gas pipe line -root passes. Glad people saw first hand your demo. Alot of folks think MIG is strong.
@@6061 I've used most of the other processes, but have never tried dual shield- That'd be an awesome video if you'd care to share some tips on it. Thanks!
Years ago I bought some steel from a supplier so I could build a trailer hitch. He was really upset because I was wanting to home fabricate it using a hardware store bought buzz box. Understandably so since his brother was killed following a trailer when the hitch failed from being made at home. Just think of all the beginners out there doing this with one of those 110 mig welders. I wasn’t a beginner fortunately, and knew what it took. Didn’t use the hitch for highway use either.
You should be able to "hear" that the amperage/voltage is not high enough to get good penetration. Granted, the fillet appeared uniform on the surface, it didn't burn into the base metal deep enough to fuse the two parts together.
Interesting how flux core is cheaper, doesn't require a bottle, is sometimes seen as a "lesser" process because the machines are cheaper, yet it does a better job in this case. That's one of the reasons that I like TIG, I can sit there as long as I want, add as much heat as I like, before I add a single bit of new material to the weld. I can even go back and dump a TON of heat into a failed weld, just to get it to flow again if I wanted to try to fix a failed weld without grinding it out.
Pretty heavy weld there on thick material for spray arc or short circuit GMAW. Sounded good going in first two passes, looked good as well, problem is that joint and prep; as is , isnt for a single pass that leg size. My two cents
In your opinion is a 110 welder worth putting gas on if you're welding towards the upper end of the capacity limit? If spatter is the only downside I'm leaning towards flux core all the time but idk.
@RiceCrisp320 -If aesthetics matter, then you may want to use gas and solid wire. -If you plan on welding indoors and don't have really good ventilation, you may want to use gas/solid wire. Flux core welding is a lot smokier.
I would have to agree with trainers from miller and lincoln welders, anything that is structural should be stick welded general things mig welded, and tig for things when you are going for a specific look, as an example I had a guy come to me with a part for a brush hog, he had it welded several times by a professional weld shop, and they failed, he asked me if I could weld it, so I broke out the stick welder, welded it up for free and the last time I seen him that was about 5 years later, it was still holding strong, that's when he told me the weld shops he went to before used mig instead of stick
I was taught a long long time ago how to weld. The guy who did the teaching told me you do it my way your welds will hold better than the parent metal, but they will not be pretty. They will look okay. Not bragging but 95% of my welds do not break it's always the parent metal. It's always when i just reweld something without grinding or cutting out the old weld.
Burn rod, not wire on thick plate. It requires more skill at your craft, but it is much stronger. No matter what welding process you use, always try to preheat your metals and, in some cases post heat. I had a welding instructor who always stressed that good welds save lives. Without us, modern infrastructure would still be concrete and stone.
Any time I see ripples in a MIG weld, I fear lack of fusion. Get some 95/5 (argon oxygen) or 90/10 (argon co2) and for the .375 plate run somehere around 26-27 volts 400 wire speed with .045 ER70S-6 and lay down some weld. Shouldnt make many sparks or noise just a sizzle with an occasional crackle. Welds will be blue, and virtually free of ripples. IF you are limited to low current, Do as he says and use a FCAW or SMAW process with multiple passes. Short arc welds should be outlawed.
if you bevel the upright 45 degrees both sides then weld with 7018 wire it will be strongest ive done axels on heavy farm equipment that did not break at the weld
IMHO, this is not a fair test. Material appears to be 5/16-3/8. You couldn't stick weld material this thick and expect it to hold, why would you try mig welding and think it would hold?
I'm a hvac guy. I braze alot of copper line set. I mean alot. just about every work day for the last 27 years. It bugs the shit out of me when my co-workers and bosses call in soldering. Howz your gas welding skills? on copper line set I'm killer but I'm shit welding any type of plate just don't have the field time like I do welding pipe. Your mig is killer just wondering if you got any gas experience. love your content.
