Catchers blocking the plate was perfectly legal at the major league level until 2014, as long as they either had the ball or the ball was being thrown to them. Runners doing whatever it takes to get past the catcher block the plate in order to tag home plate and score, was also legal, not considered a dirty play by either player for most of the history of baseball.
@@Glum1964 Problem there was that they were taking it too far, so the SS or 2B would get the ball and would be 3' away from the bag after the force out and the runner would slide into them.
That's how the game was taught and played. Check out how they slide into bases in the 20-30's. You'd call these, clean slides. The game evolves but saying these are dirty based on today's standards is wrong!
I’ve seen people dodge leg breaking slides at 2nd base a couple of times . In soccer the slides would not just net you a red ( extremely dangerous play) it’d be career suspension because straight foot cleats out will 110 % shatter the leg Ie Eduardo’s open fracture in arsenal vs Birmingham.. his bone was out from a square cleats out slide., just think your leg is locked into the ground with cleats and a side kick slide is breaking your leg
@Ken Wesaw As soon as I read the title to this video, I wondered how many clips would involve Machado. I've been waiting for years for a 1st baseman to finally lose his patience and beat Machado's nose flat after Machado has tried yet again to break the other player's ankle.
Even though Pedroia refused to call out his "friends'" dirty, career ending shot... Most Boston fans expect whoever is pitching, should we face Machado on the field again, to bean him.
@@WackJallis i mostly agree. but, if you make a genuine slide and happen to up end the fielder, im ok with that. but both of McRaes plays were _o b v i o u s_ the bag was *not his intent.*
@@googoo-gjoob after a genuine slide, the runner would be on the base, not upending the fielder. That kind of play came about as players in the old days would take advantage of ambiguity of whether they were trying to get to the base or trying to interfere with the fielder. Umpires were reluctant to call it, despite it always being against the rules to deliberately try and interfere with a fielder, just like they were reluctant to toss pitchers for throwing at batters until after they'd warned both sides. To me, baseball has always had a real problem with a 'if you're not cheating, you're not trying' attitude. Honor, sportsmanship, and being a positive role model for children are never as important as winning.
Right? The image of him standing on second with his hands on his head looking like a child covered in chocolate syrup denying it was him makes me laugh every time.
@@CrescentRollCarl Because no one has a clearer view of the play than the guy running for third, with Arroyo standing in his line of sight. 😝 Respect the irrational Jeter hatted, but that's a stretch.
Yes, Rose was unapologetic. Watch it again. He started to slide but Fosse didn't budge. Fosse expected Rose to dive head first into planted cleats. Or expected a chunky Rose to juke in the middle of a full sprint. Neither was gonna happen.
Baseball has evolved just like football. The stuff you could do or get away with 30 years ago is just mind blowing today. But the one thing I scratch my head at in todays baseball are the "unwritten rules".
@@patpat8727 No, not better. It was meant to be played hard and with aggression. It was not meant to be watered down by the squeamish and the weak. Buster Posey is a weenie, and we didn't need a rule to make everyone else one, too.
Nah, even for that era it was dirty. Dude didn't even try to slide. You had to at least try to slide, but instead McCray just flat out hip checked him.
@@Banzai51 "You had to at least try to slide" Says who? Show me in the rule back then that you had to slide? You NEVER have to slide. At least those were the rules back then.
@@colyhope6467 Fosse was positioned three feet in front of home. That's why the tackle slide was such an important part of the game. Fair to say that it's too risky to the catcher to allow that kind of slide - that's why they changed the rules - but it was the behavior of catchers like Fosse that created the need for that kind of silde. Because if Fosse had gotten the ball half a second earlier, he would have squared up to Rose, dropped his shoulder, and laid him out.
If you think anything in that video was dirty (with exception of MM and Albert) you are part of the woke problem with baseball today. They used to sharpen their spikes so they could cut people when they slid into bases. It was all part of the game and acceptable. Breaking up a double play was expected, now they have to slide at the 80’ mark so they don’t touch the middle infielders. It’s worse than the NFFL (National Flag Football League) formerly known as the NFL…
@@utgreenheadthe fact that you used the term "woke" to describe baseball is ridiculous.. get your head out of your ass and your eyes off of Fox News and take a nice walk outside for once.
I kinda miss those plays at 2nd base where they used to be able to take out the fielder. I can see why they were eliminated though. It would have been cool to include the Chase Utley slide that single handedly ended those types of plays.
The rule needed to be changed. You're so vulnerable when throwing, and 2 basemen were getting injured too much. It's one thing to knock a guy off the throw to 1st, but when it becomes part of the game plan to crack ribs or break knees to break up a play, it needs to change. That's not in the spirit of baseball.
@@chipcrayton If you need to see collisions in order to watch baseball, you were never a baseball fan to begin with. Go watch football. There's so much more to baseball than players running into each other.
And still should be. You know how to keep from getting erased at second base? You drill the baserunner in the forehead with the ball if he doesn't slide.
You should find videos of the game back in Ty Cobbs day. When they would sharpen their cleats and slide in cleats up high. The slides at second in this video, back then weren't dirty, that was how you were taught to break up the double play.
People that never played the game have no idea how much contact there is on the bases and at home plate. I started playing in 1960s and we all had steel spikes. I was taught how to go high with my spikes on a slide into 2d or 3d base to take out the other player. I played 3d base and catcher. I was taught how to block the plate and drop the hammer on a runner trying to come home. Use the shin guards and the catcher's mitt was a weapon to deal out punishment. The game was much different back then, way more aggression.
Ended his career? In his rookie season? Fosse went on to catch for 12 seasons and was a multiple World Series champion and Gold Glove winner and was frequently among the top of the league's defensive stats for his position. Fosse was plagued by injuries throughout his career that had nothing to do with the Rose collision.
Fosse was injured in a collision with Pete Rose at home plate.[8][9] Initial X-rays revealed no fractures or other damage, although a re-examination the following year found Fosse had sustained a fractured and separated shoulder, which healed incorrectly, causing chronic pain that was never entirely resolved.
@@BuckshotPA1 Yeah. No one disputes that. He was injured on the play. Big difference between that and it ended his career. I don't know how you end someone's career when they go on to win awards for being at the top defensively at their position and multiple championships. Fosse also suffered multiple severe injuries apart from this play that you don't seem to realize or acknowledge.
Y’all win! hurt his shoulder. Way back when, I remember announcers talking about his shoulder was never the same and his career suffered. He was an all-star! Still an exhibition game!
@@DC-op8fs *they’re* Learn to recognize sarcasm in life. Also, learn the fucking difference between there, their and they’re. My 8 year old granddaughter knows the difference for fucks sake.
Some of these older clips are from a time when that was just how the game was played. Good they changed the rules but it’s hard to fault players for playing to win.
Dick Green getting taken out was not a dirty play. It was expected in that era. McRae asked him if he was okay afterwards. Rose on Fosse in an All-Star game was just ridiculous. Fosse was never the same after that play.
Not gonna lie, never personally seen this clip and I have played some baseball in my time. Definitely looks like there should have been some sort of repercussions for that hit. Some things in sports just slide I suppose
Shame about the gambling stuff. Quite frankly the fact he only bet on his own teams has never once bothered me. It's one thing to bet against yourself and then throw the game, but betting only on yourself to win? I mean who gives a shit 🙄 dude is all-time and nothing will ever change that... At least until someone breaks his hits record.
@@Mr_Jish I agree with you for the most part but.... Part of the argument about betting on his team to win is that the games he did NOT bet them to win... He may have not managed in the same fashion if he did not have money riding.
@@billrobertson5895 Gambling on games, even if you are betting on your team to win, leave the gambler open to blackmail if he becomes indebted to bookies. That is why it is against the rules for a player or manager to bet on ANY game. And betting on your team to win one game but not on a second game is the equivalent of betting on your team to lose the second game.
Base runners learned never to slide hard against Billy Martin. He would low throw past your head. One throw did hit a runner in the face resulting in broken bones.
@@devlinjointz4754 you don't create a rule if it was a clean play, utley was a dirty player most of his career and that was an intentionally dirty play with full intent to do harm.
@@brianemerich2524 its a clean play because there was no rule. Utley said his intention was to break up the double play. Which he did. Unless you can read minds you cant argue otherwise.
By dirty we mean for some silly reason perfectly acceptable per the rules at the time? I love how the same people that call these clips dirty ALSO hate the new home plate and slide rules implimented to fix them
How could this video leave out one of the dirtiest plays in baseball history? The Chase Utley slide into second base against the Mets in the playoffs was one of the worst plays ever.
@@10Peter25 well then practically everybody that played the game at that time would disagree. The goal of the runner was to break up the double play and help their team win. Do you have any evidence, at that time, getting injured from such a play?
@nicholastrudeau7581 Then everyone was a dirty baserunner back then. I'm familiar enough with the way baseball was played in Hal McRae's day to know two things. 1. You're exaggerating quite a bit. 2. Hal McRae had the reputation even by the standards of his day of being a dirty baserunner.
Yeah it was at the time, the ruling didn’t change until after Chase Utley took out Ruben Tejada in the 2015 NLDS. Now the ruling is the runner has to make an attempt to aim for the plate when sliding to break up a double play
Even though it's proven he never bet on a game he was involved with. Yup, keep that delusional world you live in alive. I'll break it down in 2 seconds.
That Pete Rose play is overblown. The guy was trying to score and the catcher was in the way, the runner should be allowed to do that, I miss old school baseball
@@krolik1157 so don’t get in the runner’s way? You play hard the whole game, or that’s how it’s supposed to be. Never want anyone to get hurt, but we shouldn’t make the game soft to prevent it
Baseball has had 'dirty players' since the very first game. Playing a 'clean game' is the antithesis of the type of game played by Ty Cobb, Albert Bell, A-Rod, Niekro and the famous Pete Rose. Of course, a lot of players from the past and even to the present have the attitude of 'win at any cost' and the fans are right there with that. I think that, short of shooting your opponent, almost anything goes. Going to an MLB and NFL game must be like going to the gladiator games in Rome.
I'm sorry what drugs are you on right now? I'd like to buy them because you're fucking hallucinating! If you have the ball, you have the right to BLOCK ANYTHING YOU WANT! Don't like it? Don't watch baseball and get out of these comments.
A lot of those were legal at the time not dirty exactly. Though the player swatting the ball out of the pitcher's glove on the way to first was kind of funny.
I was at that game. Later in the game, Munson went 1st to 3rd and if George Brett hadn't moved, Munson would have gutted him like a fish with his cleats easily waist high.
The Pete Rose one is a joke...Fosse blocks the plate as Rose is getting ready to slide.....Pete Rose made the right move, Fosse made a blunder that cost himself an injury....
2:58 no highly competitive person considers this play dirty. ray shouldn't have been blocking the plate up the baseline with no ball if he didn't want to get trucked.
