Model Train Shop Talk | Avoiding Buyer`s Remorse: Episode #1 

I like to upgrade my old stuff. Most still run even after 40 plus years! After the licensing agreement changed everything, I have to really save up to buy a new locomotive.

What concerns me the most is that manufactures are making it so expensive for our younger generation to get into the hobby. And I’m not just talking about locomotive and rolling stock manufacturers. Every aspect of the hobby is getting so expensive. On another more positive note. Congratulations on hitting 1,000 subscribers! Well deserved.

I like this good info. I have a theory that you can weather your equipment which will draw the eye to it. If you mix in high end equipment with regular quility equipment that the minds eye will be tricked into it is all high end. If you a heavily detailed locomotive that is weathered and be hind it a Locomotive with minimal detail that is also weathered it will blend together.

I just recently found this RU-vid sight. I really enjoy it.

Good stuff. I just received 2 Athearn Genesis Locos. A new GP 38-2 and GP7. I saved for quite awhile for those. Now I will save for decoders. They are beautiful models and they will run great no doubt. I don’t mind spending good money for good running equipment, but frankly I don’t need all that detail and frankly, they make for 2 fragile of a model. Just give me a good mechanically sound unit and I don’t need to see every nut and bolt. Same with freight cars, I long for the old blue box kits. I think they were great. 👍😀👊

The CN and BNSF hoppers are ACF Center Flows .

When I graduated high school in 1979 I had a job that paid me 3 times minimum wage at the time. I could buy with one weeks take home pay a 100 car coal train. I could get the cars for $2.50 a piece. I could buy the Atlas/Roco locomotives ( which were the best at that time) for $9.99 each, mail order. That's how I got a nice train to run on our clubs modular layout. I don't think anyone could do that today.

When I got back into the hobby I decided to model Japanese railroads. I buy everything direct from Tokyo hobby shops and even with shipping is very reasonable. N scale of course, but I can run a lot of trains for not a lot of dollars. Straight DC, but a lot of fun and that's what it is all about. The sheer variety from Japan is astounding. The biggest expense is now I want to visit Japan and ride these awesome trains!

Great investigative reporting. I think most modelers just "suck it up". But, hey, we need expose these indiscretions! Demand our money's worth! Years ago I stopped buying from Walmart for the same "price creep". The products got more expensive and quality decreased. Most just look the other way, but I buy less now and pay for better quality. I know people won't do that, they're addicted. But it's my way of resisting less quality and more expense. Maybe some of that started when I lived in the interior of BC. There was still a very frugal attitude there due to a 200 mile drive to Williams Lake and shopping! We learned that we didn't always need what we used to think was important. OK, I'm done. Keep up the GREAT work and QUALITY!

I've been priced out of the model train hobby for the last 7 or 8 years .

I totally agree the price keeps going up and you get not much or less detail. I usually buy old kits. I got bit by the Rapido bug a few years back, so that doesn't help my wallet much, lol.

I think we all agree quality is not cheap, but I'm thankful for it as for years we complained the detail was not there.. and now it is for your choosing.. thxs! David BAC V RR

The pricing is getting so high that you really have to be frugal on what you get. Nice thoughts on the subject.

I started to collect things for a layout that never materialized, we'll just say awhile ago. A few false starts is about as far as it has gotten I guess you would call me an arm chair model railroader. I still have in the back of my mind to make a small layout, and I'm still happy with what I have. I'm just glad that I bought what I bought when I did.

Price creep on N Scale means average railcars price is 30 bucks and 50 bucks for HO, so at those prices you can't build a large unit train like you could a few years age

Good observation and good point. I may be wrong but, 10+ years ago the price started to increased tremendously with the appearance of a certain manufacturer who had, at that time, the highest price ever. They all followed suit not long after that. I guess as long as the market is willing to buy..... The PWRS hopper is very nice. is it the one that comes with Proto87 wheels? You are right you have to double check all the time and I have quite a few cars that I got used for unbeatable price as well. But I draw the line at "expensive" cars, who for the most part have rolling issues and details that fall-off if you look at them too close :)

I never have or never will pay more then 50 dollars Canadian tax included for a piece of rolling stock unless it's a passenger car. I tend to only buy new when special paint schemes such as the new black beaver logo CP rail trinity covered hoppers come out. Then I stick to walthers proto or mainline. The protos are decent high detail for the money usually under 43 before taxes, the mainline are average but great for under 35 before taxes. To me the fine detail and high accuracy dosnt matter, once you weather and hand graffiti the cars it dosnt really matter. All the little stuff disappears and the overall model takes over. I do have a few high end top of the line cars but I buy those for cheap, used or new at train shows and swap meets in southern Ontario. I have scored a few athearn genesis, older atlas mainline and some nice older MTH cars for 15 to 25 cash each. As I am on a tight modelling budget, I save my money to buy one or two locos every couple of years. Only those that I highly desire, and yes i shell out on the full DDC sound units, and of the highest trim level suck as Rapido, Bowser, or Athearn Genesis. To each there own, but I do beleive his hobby is getting out of hand price wise and it's only getting worse for new releases.

Nice thoughts about trying to balance cost against level of detail.

I think that they call the tread an 88 width which might be available in 33 in. 36 in or 38 in. and Intermountain may still be selling them. I don't know with the pandemic and them having to find a new factory in China what their parts situation is like. I guess you could call their 800 number and inquire. Here is a humorous sidebar on prices, years ago I purchased Walthers Platinum Line 6351 covered hoppers. The msrp was 34.98 the hobby shop price 27.99. I also got what they called a managers special discount which probably brought the price down to around 25.00 dollars. I recently looked on Walthers for the Platinum Line, and that line no longer exists. I then went to eBay to look for that car line and to my surprise people are asking for over 100.00 dollars for those particular cars, talk about a price jump. Like the grain cars I wish I had bought more, not that I am selling any, they are nice cars and not available anymore in the Platinum Line.

Thanks for making this video. I will definitely look closer at cars before I buy them.

Living in the UK it's even more expensive for models. I get 90% of my stock from EBay. Listed as used it's almost all brand new never been run and a fraction of the price of new stock. Good video and a great layout!

Love your channel. I am new the hobby and currently based in Singapore modelling US rail roads, so everything i buy is way expensive when you factor in the delivery costs and exchange rate between USD and SGD. My layout will eventually be installed in Sydney Australia so maybe it might be a bit cheaper to source the locos, cars and models from local hobby shops. However, for the time being, everything has to be sourced from the US directly so this video has been a real eye opener for me. I will definitetly be more discerning going forward. Many thx and best regards, Peter Tillman

Good topic. I’m stumbling around the O scale market and its really weird. You have to shop and see what is what, you can get some real gems in a value line and some real stinkers in the premium line.

I see where you're coming from,I don't have "deep pockets" so i have to stick to the low to mid-range models and add the details later (rainy or cold day projects).I've too see the price increase and the poor quality and it doesn't help when our best resource (train shows) for good deals are being postponed or canceled do to the corvid virus,still a good eye opener video that'll help all of us modelers..ty

I agree. I was just perusing an online retailer, standard DC P2K GP9s for nearly $200! I remember when they were $89. Sound equipped locos used to be $250, now the same locos are $400. As you say, there is no adequate reason even accounting for labor increases, shipping costs, etc. A 10%-20% hike I could see, but a 50%-70% hike is just mind-boggling. As other comments have stated, companies are pricing out new hobbyists. Athearn etc are effectively killing the hobby, and themselves. As much as I hate to strip the paint off of a decorated P2K, at $200 to do a shell swap.... well geez, I’d rather roll my sleeves up. Chessie System is not a scheme I’m eager to paint & decal myself. I think I’m going to be buying 80% of my stuff at train shows when those start up again. Brand new single/triple do e tank cars are $20-$25 each, at train shows I can get them for $3-$6 each. My layout has 80 sq ft of refinery. $25 per car is not cost effective.

Oh, I forgot to add that from seeing your layout and the MRL loco's I just bought a Athearn ready to run SD45-2T, as Athearn states MRL never owned any but it was to nice to pass up. Very nicely detailed it has DCC and sound all I did was add some lift rings. I might add brake airlines to the trucks later. I was quite surprised by the performance of this locomotive. It is very, very smooth and the drive line and motor are extremely quiet. It is a nice locomotive for the price 168.00 US from a place called Spring Creek Trains in Deshler Nebraska. It was also 12.57 for UPS shipping. You have a very nice layout, nicely detailed.

Athearn is going to be happy in the short run but in 10 years will regret their choices. Athearn’s sd70ace and es44ac are going for around $300 which is ridiculous when the detail has remained the same in the last 10 years, they’ve only add PTC and LED’s. Brands like Intermountain selling highly detailed tier 4’s gevo’s with DCC and sound for $215 are going to gain more traction and grow. Hopefully their prices won’t go up along with brands like Walthers, Scaletrains, and others because they are creating a barrier for young members of the hobby.

The Canadian grain cars you mention were made by Intermountain, special run for Pacific Western to their specs. I purchased several of them years ago. As with all of the manufacturers everything comes from China. I too wish I would of purchased more of Pacific's special runs. I think back when I bought mine they were roughly 10.00 dollars US more than the regular Intermountain cars of the same genre.

Totally agree recently got the BLI brass hybrid Northern Pacific A3. Detail is great but the sound system they put in for that price needs to be better. At 1000 dollar CDN, bli should really step the game up on the sound

I would have to agree that prices for contemporary rolling stock is ridiculous. Thankfully, I have pretty much what I need, since I am modeling a railroad that is now a bike trail. My only pro-tip is if you are looking for something is to scout for it on eBay.

I model N scale and they are just as high as HO. It’s not really an affordable hobby and if they keep on increasing prices, it’s going to scare a lot of people away from the hobby.

I find that the Scaletrains Operator and Kit Classics lines are pretty good detail for their price point. Walthers mainline is good too

First you can get that car HO cylintrial grain hopper cars from Intermountain still I think. And the wheels are from Intermountian. Good wheels. You will find them to be very nice cars.

Some of Athearns modern RTR cars are former genesis cars from the early 2000s early genesis tooling is what todays modern RTR tooling is for most manufactures

Hi, I'm enjoying your videos quite a bit. One thing I'd point out is that the used market for kits is huge and barring plague and insurrection train shows will be back, at least down south. Buying pre-built trains is a European concept to me and a little strange. I've been buying up some Canadian kits lately online and they are pretty nice. Keep up the good work!

They keep raising the prices, but you have to admit that the quality is also a lot better! I remember the Athearn "blue box" models from the 70's and 80's. I still have some and can't believe that the prices were $3.50 and up to 5.00. And they look pretty good! They were kits, but they went together very easily! You need money today to run models. You could try e-bay for used items which could be a lot of cheaper.

That was pretty good !! I spend a lot of money on my rail cars and honestly I stopped buying both atlas master line and anything athern. I think for the money exact rail, scale trains, intermountain, even Walthers proto series are getting really nice and quality parts and better built. I bought an athern genesis covered hopper GATX looked awesome they glued the draft boxes and I swear it is poorly built. Must of been built on a Friday afternoon!!! Good video and sick layout!

Very informative video. Like you said, it is wise to some research on what you're buying. I've recently gone backwards and instead of Exactrail or Tangent I'll get an old painted but unlettered car kit with add on details and then assemble it and letter it myself with dry transfers. I started off years ago with Athearn Blue box kit cars but I really prefer separate add on details parts verses molded on. EVEN though I still have several cars with molded on details. 👍👍😷🛤

I can't believe some of the really glaring errors I have seen and manufacturers that still expect the customer to pay an exhorbitant price for the car. This has included such things as an Atlas Grand Trunk Western wood reefer wearing the GT noodle, a livery these cars did not survive to wear and a Port Huron and Detroit boxcar from Walthers proudly emblazoned with "Saint Claire Bluewater Route". I work in Port Huron. Last time I checked, it was on the wrong side of the border for the French spelling.. No, these weren't the most expensive cars, but they weren't that cheap. I was very disappointed in both cases. Obviously, I did not purchase either of these cars.

The days of basement empires with 100s of locos and freight cars are over. Very few ppl can afford that anymore.

A big thank you for bering it up the prices are so sky high its reduless.

Great video! I’m in my 30s and still don’t have a ton of money to throw at the hobby, so I have to be picky about what I get (some call it cheap, but I call it savvy). For a while now I’ve been going the used route to fill my roster. Either damaged stuff, or cheap stuff that I can repaint and super detail (think a Dora the Explorer hopper car). Even if I had the funds, I don’t think I’d be willing to drop several hundred dollars for only a handful of freight cars. The other side of the things are the manufacturers. Has the cost of production really gone up that much or is there some price gouging? Hard to say, as I don’t work in the modeling industry.

I’m either gonna build a few trains, get a few more locomotives, passenger trains and call it a collection. (Unless dcc becomes anymore of a problem for me) I’m either gonna invest and build something cool or I’m out until quality picks back up. I have no problem running a few trains from Lionel and going dc in N or Ho

Honestly the way Tangent is going they will be the highest standard

Still love my athearn blue box kits the best bang for the buck,,,,dont care about all the detail on new cars

You gotta shop around sorry to say that’s just this hobby but I found 20 dollar priced rolling stock with lots of detail and then I’ve found 50 dollar priced rolling stock that had like no detail. It’s really up and down.

good vid... i went back to using just DC locos, no sound at all... i don't need it too expensive... i'm WAY more concerned about having really good scenery and makin the layout look as REAL as i can, also having good rail with no stalling... i concentrate on those things rather than spending HUNDREDS on DCC locos... as far as cars go yeah prices are way out of hand... i would suggest to a new modeler, to the degree that you can, to pick cars for your layout that aren't in high demand... those are on sale marked way down nobody wants them anymore and the retailer wants to get rid of them

Yeah when I got back into model railroading, I had sticker shock, what the....

I agree, all my train cars look like toys, the couples are Hugh and non -proto-typical. They were made by a companies called Tyco and Mantua! I guess you get what you pay for...most of mine were given to me. Maybe the people who gave them to me did not want to pay the garbage removal fees!

Think this is bad? Go O scale 2 rail. We are biting the bullet here 😂 Atlas has raised prices big time!

Every year, prices go up, quality goes down.... Just look at the latest run of Rapido LRC cars or the Athearn SD70 and missing detail parts.

Howzit : Have You Any Further Comment To Make When Comparing The Different OE ( Original Equipment ) Couplers Per Manufacturer ? In Having Finally Moved Away From That Bloody Awful NMRA / Horn-Hook Type; I Do Believe That Some Of The * Knuckle * Type Couplers As Supplied Certainly LOOK Good; But Soon Become Unreliable In Operating Sessions ( Especially The Plastic and Metal Combination Version ). Not Long After Purchase; One Ends Up Having To Replace These OE Couplers With The Well-Known; Leading Coupler Brand Due To Inherent Design Failure and Therefore Major OpS Frustration. Much Thanx For A Most Interesting; Topical and Relevant Viddy. Regards / John

Great tips, thank you!

buying walthers mainline when Athearn is about to roll out the best SD60Ms....buyers remorse. especially since i am not good at adding details.

The pricing, especially in rolling stoc is ridiculous. Locomotives are in another world. This goes in all scales and all companies.

The price of this stuff nowadays is why I refuse to get back in the hobby. Absolutely stupid. I’m sure there are many others who aren’t in the hobby either due to such insane prices. It’s a shame.

Want to talk about buyers remorse,almost everything N-Scale in the 90s(except Kato)would fit that description.Pre-ordered Con-Cor autoracks-garbage!And 95% of Micro-Trains stuff was inferior.They still use the wrong trucks/wheels on many cars,and their autoracks are laughable.Plus their cars ride higher than they should.Bachmann Spectrum C40-8s were a huge disappointment.I could go on and on,but ebay helped me recoup most of my losses.

This subject needs to be shared with other modelers fore sure.

I remember buying DC Locomotives for $100, and DCC one for $200 CDN. And it wasn't that long ago. I blame the greed of some brands.

I think manufacturers should just label product lines , "Good, Better, Best" and save everyone the hassle. But I guess saying our "Good" models isn't as catchy as "Trainman" or "Trainline"? 😂

Air compressor? It's an air reservoir. Just a minor gripe.

What you need to know is that Athearn and Atlas and other companies limit their stock runs so they can demand better prices. Then they introduce stock from 70 year old molds that have hand rail like tree trucks. paint work that some old blind Chinese work performed for a dollar a day and to add insult they put plastic wheel sets on them that another $1 a day chinese made. I know longer buy from these companies as its not worth spending my cash to watch half of the fine detail bits fall off or snap while trying to place it on my layout and if you require a spare part wow the price is almost half the cost of the investment. With the advent of cad drawing and CNC machines performing the tasks of cutting the molds, molding machines capable of turning out hundred of thousands of plastic shells every hour and painting machines doing the same. So ?????? their costs are lower but the sale price just keeps go up. Another thing they employ so few Americans but they cry poor when Americans fail to support them. They do not concern them self's with the working class on limited wagers trying to raise a family. Their objective is grabbing the large pot of retirement money available as they have fewer over heads.

Subscribed !! Good info and insight on those cars thank you

I was astonished when I seen the prices of rolling stock and locomotives. After a 19 year hiatus from the hobby and getting back into it. I made up my mine to set a low price point for spending ; a budget for the hobby. I have blue box rolling stock and I add details when a piece of rolling stock needs it. Besides by adding details is the true meaning of model railroading. Which this hobby has been skewed in a way due to getting a model that has all the details already added. To me that's not modeling. Hence the hobby being called model railroading is to actually model a scene or rolling stock or even a locomotives by adding the details yourself. Getting a model already detailed is missing the experience of actually being able to take pride in achieving the ability to learn how to make a model look similar to the prototype. And letting manufacturers do all the work of adding the details is giving them the license to rape (lack of a better word) the model railroaders with the cost. My point is this hobby you can achieve the same result with cheaper cost if you add the details yourself.

Atlas definitely having trouble

Corporate greed is what it comes down to. As these manufacturers have gotten larger and larger the cost of production is cut to make the higher ups in management more money. This leads to poorer quality products that cost more or quality products that should be a reasonable price instead costing an outrageous price. It's like this in every large corporation that provides any product now days. The large model railroad products companies are just catching up with the rest of consumer goods industry. Its disgusting that this is a standard that we live with. Most things you buy now, for instance say a washing machine; only last till the warranty runs out. The washing machine company has designed the parts of the washers to last just until the warranty runs out so you have to buy a new one because you might as well since the parts to fix it and getting it fixed cost as much as a new one. And they control the price of replacement parts making them too expensive. Instead of making quality products that last guaranteeing repeat customers they engineering the washing machine with cheap parts forcing you to buy a new one when it breaks so they insure repeat customers that have to buy more often. Forcing you to be a repeat customer through poor quality products instead of quality products that make you want to be a repeat customer. All this makes the executives of the corporation more and more money. Then they push to cut more corners and to sell for more to bring in more money for the corporation getting the executives bonuses for record sells. Vicious circle. With model trains it's going to continually be more and more expensive to get a quality product instead of making them poor quality ensuring they break and need replacement it's just going to cost the hell out of you to get quality products that should come standard and be well made with the prices coming down because technology has advanced to make, for example LEDs; less expensive to produce and therefore cost less to be put in a model and cost the modeler less because the company spends less. That's not how it works though. Its new cutting edge technology that you have to pay for because it's an upgrade from before. It's a bunch of bullshit, ripoff, money hungry, greedy, corporate executive's tactics. That is why I try to buy as much as I can from smaller companies that take pride in the product they make, from the man sweeping the floor to the president of the company which in some cases is the same man. Not only model companies but any type small business that provides things I need. It may cost more because it's not mass produced in China by slaves working for the corporation of the CCP. Buying from small businesses and buying local helps your community and average people like yourself keeping your economy going not another countries economy. Wow can we say rant. 😣 I'll stop now! Stay well. -Wil 👍

Took me awhile to find this video again left a comment on a different video from 2 months ago. The Intermountain web site still has those wheels and axles listed under ho scale accessories section. So I am guessing you can get them if they are in stock.

Great stuff, thank you for sharing

You need to be careful with Atlas. their quality is all over the place and will charge you the same.

Why the hell would a company degrade their products? That’s insulting to reduce quality and ask a higher price. 🤦‍♂️

The thing I don't like about some of these cars is that they do come with the plastic couplers, I wish they had ALL (kd ees) unfortunately, lots come with the AWEFUL plastic Mc henery couplers which ARE THE WORST, their worthless, you pay alota money for trash, same thing with locomotives, I jus hate it, they should throw in a coupler of diff, KADEE couplers.

Is this a case of "Hecho in Chine" vs. made someplace more friendly?

I see the same thing in n scale... A lot of atlas master line is cough!! Cough garbage and expensive... I picked up a lot of athearn. 33.5k tankers at hiawatha hobbies for about 22$ each not bad detail is awesome thats just my opinion.

Hobby is still pricy doesn’t matter what the price is

I just want to be that token jerk that tells everyone... I was an HO scaler my whole life.. (30+ years) But 2 years ago I took the plunge and started an N scale project against my judgement. I don’t want anyone to think I’m a communist but, N scale is great! And those ultra fine details can be over looked to a point when the size is that small. 😄👍👋cheers!

This hobby is on its’death bed’ !

Who would have thought a 30 car freight train would cost thousands. It’s ridiculous where the hobby went. I used to buy a lot but now I buy very little. How’s that working out. The middle man is killing the hobby. Draining peoples pockets. I can’t justify $50 for a boxcar or tank car I don’t care how detailed they are. Make them less detailed and I will decide how much I want to spend fixing it up. Freight cars should be no more than $25. Boxcars maybe $15.

You can thank Biden for inflation. Inflation automatically raises prices thereby increasing taxes without having to go through congress to pass a new bill.

Cograts on the 1k subs! 👍