This made me day. It's enlightening to see the mental gymnastics still being employed by those who desire polygamy. And it's even better to see how quickly those narratives can be debunked. Great job, please continue with these!
This is 100% awesome! I love that the four of you have combined your knowledge and systematically substantiated your argument for each of Morgan's claims. It becomes obvious that Morgan and others like him simply regurgitate rhetoric without doing their homework. In the face of all the evidence, why do church leaders CONTINUE to CLING to the narrative? The Gospel Topics essays show that the LDS leaders are still VERY invested in perpetuating the "Doctrine" of plural marriage. Why??
"they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." (Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:19) Yea, they have all gone out of the way; they have become corrupted. 12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up. 13 They rob the poor because of their fine sanctuaries; they rob the poor because of their fine clothing; and they persecute the meek and the poor in heart, because in their pride they are puffed up. 14 They wear stiff necks and high heads; yea, and because of pride, and wickedness, and abominations, and whoredoms, they have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men. 15 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell! (Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 28:11 - 15)
I was so excited to see part 2 had been released, and this conversation did not disappoint. I've attended Morgan's classes in the past, 2 times i think, although neither of those had anything to do with polygamy. Hearing how off/wrong he is on this topic, though, has me no longer interested in attending future meetings... he obviously likes making things up and setting himself up as an "expert", and seems to be seeking to be a leader of sorts. The kind of man who ought to be avoided. I hope he watches these and repents, publicly admitting to those he's led astray that he was wrong... that would be evidence of repenting. Time will tell ...
Thank you sooooo much for your amazing work ! I wish some people I LOVE agreed to study , see and hear what you and some wonderful people have showed so clearly ! They see me as an apostate and fear I will lose my family in the eternity . Oh my ... Please keep doing this ! Helena from Brazil
The "bleep" Was Doctrine Covenants Central wasn't it?? Ooh... I hope so🙏🙏 Absolutely loved your end remarks. At this point Morgan won't even get his first wife. She's either going to get tired of his unfaithful mentality or God will take care of him later. Either way, he's a Brighamite declaring his fantasies without an ounce of dignity. Around 137 I absolutely love what Jeremy said. Even when I supported and defended polygamy not once did I do it without feeling sick. I Never felt peace or comfort over it even while supporting it. The first time I learned of the practice I couldn't have been more than 10ish years old and not understanding what on earth they were talking about, I remember as clear as if it was yesterday. I felt absolutely sick over it back then as well. Justin-Thank you so much for doing this💯🦸♂️💥
This is awesome!!! I'll be honest with you, I never heard about Morgan, but is clear to me that he is being mislending people because of his own interpretation of the church history and the scriptures. He reminds me of Nehor in Alma 1. Let's hope that he isn't too proud to watch your podcast and pehaps might take in consideratin the contents presented by your guests. So, I already follow Michelle on her RU-vid chanell and Whitney on FB, but I don't know anything about Jeremy's. Does Jeremy has any website that I could check his contents presented today on your podcast? since English is my second laguage , I am trying to learn all this directed from its sources. I really appreciate all your hard work to continue to bring more light and more information on the most controversial topic ever.
"I encourage the following for LDS members to sign an Eternal Anti- Polygamous Pre-Nuptual Agreement in Court of Law for a higher and holier marriage stating the following: If the wife dies prior to her husband, he may ONLY remarry an active, temple attending, endowed, previously sealed widow for time only. If he disregards this agreement in any aspect, the executor of her Will shall nullify or move for cancellation of the sealing. " OH MY GOSH! I just wrote this and then remembered the words of the sealing ordinance! To cleave to ones spouse. It's already written in the ordiance. No one can cleave to their spouse and be sealed or married to any another person! Doing so will cause them to stop cleaving or break the covenant. It' is absolutely clear in the words of the ordinance and in Jesus' admonition to love one another as thyself. Elder Oaks and Presdient Nelson have essentially broken the covenant with their first wives because they are not cleaving to their first!
Thank you for all of this, but especially your last statement. It brings me to tears knowing there are men willing to tell other men to put down adultery. I am so grateful for Jeremy Hoop's testimony about how God's plan is one man cleaving to his one wife. This is what I've come to see and know is true and IS God's plan. It is even the Lord's Law on marriage as stated in D&C 42 -somehow everyone skips over that one. 🤔 But I'm grateful for the two women too standing up for Emma and her integrity as well as Joseph's integrity. What a beautiful pure gospel and sweet fruit we have when we know what God'd true ways are. It is only when we truly come to know his real plan that we can fully come to know him. And yes, this must be something we must put off (in our natural man/woman) if we are to be ready for the purity and full love of Jesus Christ. No longer do we need to embrace these crimes as if they were received from the Lord.
Keep these great videos coming. You guys truly do a great job and it’s much appreciated. Hopefully you can do another one regarding Don Bradley too please
I have. And Michelle does a great job interviewing him, and his answers to Michelle’s questions are rather revealing, but the “reaction videos” are great too especially regarding his points that Michelle doesn’t necessarily get a chance to “react” to in real time
@@justin-griffin I mean, I could ask you the same question, bcuz if you have watched any podcast Don has been on, including Michelle’s, much like Morgan Philpot, you would know why he is untrustworthy, just like Morgan Philpot, with what they say and how deceptive and ignorant it is, that’s potentially leading uniformed members astray.
I learn so much from this group! This topic is so key to unlocking the false traditions of the doctrine and covenants and getting us back to the Stick of David and Joseph. You take polygamy down and your given new eyes , the vision of Christ church in the Book of Mormon becomes more attainable and apparent. I love Whitney’s word of caution, to false revelation, false spirits and proving out all truth. Even Joseph smith was susceptible to being influenced by something other then God as he did give false revelation, as God even told him as much and admonished him often as a parent would to a child. We can learn valuable lessons from what Joseph got right and what he got wrong and love him and revile him not for his mistakes. It is interesting at the near end of his life he was in the mind set of starting all over and I believe repenting not of polygamy, though he wanted to put a stop to that once and for all as well.
With all the mental health issues men face that are ignored or laughed at, to then stack on top of it that most of us won't make it to heaven anyway is just cruel. That idea sounds like something the adversary would concoct. Aren't all alike unto God, both male and female? Michelle's comment about how, in polygamy, a woman's reward for being righteous is to be in a harem was an interesting point.
Couldn't agree more!! Saying there will be more good women then men is like saying God messed up and failed to create enough good men. That kind of God wouldn't be any different from the adversary. It would mean heaven or hell...same difference.
I just started listening, but I wanted to mention this. My FIL was sealed to 2 women while both were still alive. My MIL was angry about it, but the LDS church would not grant a temple divorce because she did not have another man to be sealed to. So he is sealed to her and his second wife. My MIL has now past, I hope she has peace with things finally.
It was a delight to listen through these hours where knowledge was manifest and intelligence flowed! Thank you Sir Justin for organizing this great panel!
I found this candid Amazon book review for a book about Joseph Smith. Very insightful and sad to realize how the false doctrine of polygamy has stained and slowed the restoration and gathering… “I am a non-denominational Christian. I ordered this book because I wanted to learn more about the Mormon faith. I was expecting a book that outlined the current theology of polygamy, non-caffeine use, and other popular characterizations of Mormons. Instead, I read about a story of a group of Israelites coming to what I believe was being described as North, Central & South America. The story was challenging to read; but I think I got the main gist of the story. Ironically, it seems like Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other founding fathers of the Mormon faith have not necessarily followed the teachings in this book. For instance, polygamy seemed to be explicitly shunned in the stories of the Book of Mormon; but was then resurrected by Joseph Smith as an acceptable practice. I am not sure about the truth of the story told in this book; but I got the sense that the story really does not challenge any established Christian doctrine. The actual practices of the modern Mormon faith may be a different story... I don't know as this book does not seem to reflect current practices. I do like Mormon people.. they seem to really value families and live good, fulfilling lives.”
Joseph Smith was not a polygamist. That was a character assassination by the Mason's that were Brigham Young, John Taylor, Willard Richards, Heber C Kimball and every pretended wives who all were Mason backed or the Mason backed Expositor accused them of being his wives. But he didn't have a single child with any of those women! Joseph Smith was not a Mason either, another character assassination by the actual Mason's who showed up two years just before they killed him, his brother Hyrum, his brother Don Carlos and Sam Smith. All murdered by the Mason's.
Joseph Smith was not racist either! He ordained six black sons of God to the priesthood in the very early days of the church. He said that a black man has a soul and is an heir to salvation. And consider the story of Zipporah, being an Ethiopian, Midianite, Cushite, she was not accepted by her sister and brother in law for the color of her skin, so Moses sent her and their sons out of camp because of it. So God brought Aaron, Miriam and Moses before Him and corrected them and gave Miriam a white skin, so white of leprosy, she too was sent out of camp! God was not about to allow her to be racist without giving her a skin problem!
I feel the same way about his second coming lecture series. He is a fervent pursuer of “righteousness,” but because of what he has inherited, he ends up more of a “know-it-all” “idiot” on both fronts. And both have damaging repercussions on those who cling to this stuff. It appears that he interprets scripture according to how he views God, but it appears his God is BY’s God, and thus distorted from the true and living God, not knowing the all loving, life giving Christ. One can read the BoM through the Church’s interpretation (see chapter headings), or one can read it through the Spirit of Christ, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
Morgan teaches quite the array of precepts not given by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost. Wow... I have seen his videos pop up now and then on my YT feed. I never felt prompted to listen to them but to avoid them, and now I know why.
I love this. The more I learn about Emma the more I view her as one of the greatest women to ever have been on this earth. She was freaking bad-A. Total warrior of a woman.
My favorite post manifesto LDS polygamy story is Ezra Taft Benson, in 1950. His cousin Eva had recently died, and had never married. So what does your apostle about town do for the cousin you've had a crush on your entire life? "[Benson] was sealed in marriage to his recently deceased cousin, Eva Amanda Benson (July 6, 1882-August 10, 1946). Eva was the never-married daughter of Benson's uncle Frank Andrus Benson. Flora had first suggested acting as proxy for Eva, then did so during the vicarious ordinance performed by Elder Joseph Fielding Smith in the Salt Lake Temple. "I have never witnessed a more unselfish act on the part of any person," Benson recorded, "and I love Flora all the more because of it. The Lord will richly bless her for this act of unselfish love for Eva and me and the Kingdom. Flora is one of the choicest daughters of our Heavenly Father." April 25, 1950 - Ezra Taft Benson diary
@@justin-griffinI still like Benson for some things, but reject his polygamy and racist nonsense. People aren't just good or bad. We are a mix. Further, it is difficult for all of us to rise above the culture and day we are are raised in.
The unscriptural and baseless doctrines coming out by LDS presenters like Morgan is unbelievable. I see it on almost every podcast all over the spectrum. From Ward to Cwic to Dehlin and RFM, it is like the reality is falling apart and the church spectrum of opinion is out of this world, with no foundation in reality. Brigham followed a very different path than Joseph Smith, period. The fruit of that is coming to roost now, in utter confusion. It is hard to find a stable group of presenters who can present clear evidence and thought like this group tries to do. I appreciate their hard work and integrity to the actual documents. After the murder of Joseph Hyrum and Samuel many members chose to follow the god of this world while appearing to follow the real G-d. which has messed with peoples minds and blinded them over time and especially now when the foundations of this world are shaking. The Polygamy issue is small in comparison to other falsehoods inherited from the darkness of those days. The days of the Gentiles are over and light and truth has fled. It is the blind leading the blind. I try to compare every wind of doctrine to the Book of Mormon. I trust G-d and no man or woman to lead me now. You have podcasts teaching Asherah as the mother goddess and female HG. That is Baal worship. You have polygamy deception everywhere. You have the Lectures on Faith removed from scripture in 1920, where Joseph clearly taught there are 2 gods, not 3. You have members and ex-members teaching they are the Davidic servant or the man like Moses, when they are not. You have others teaching MMP or multiple mortal probations quackery that is just reincarnation. You have others teaching Kab_balah and mysticism. You have the apologists and mainstream teaching Joseph had multiple wives and used a rock in a hat, ignoring what Joseph actually taught. Little of what is taught today is what Joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon taught. I appreciate one thing from Johnathan Neville, while I do not agree with everything he says, he always says why don't we give more weight to what Joseph and Oliver said than perjured witnesses decades later. Any documents such as last 30 of D&C (not published by Joseph), Pearl of Great Price, King Follet discourse are all suspect as not published with approval under Joseph Smith's hands. We have been deceived by corrupt men or maybe women, who just as King Noah have stolen the hearts and minds of the people. There will be no gathering out of the saints or protection except for a few humble followers who will be spared. Isaiah warns us in the Book of Mormon and Jesus commanded us to study his words. The words of the Nephi, Isaiah, and Moroni condemn us and will we not receive the same reward as the sons of Jacob or the Nephites when they polluted the gospel and trampled on the real G-d of this world. We have not left Babylon, but rather embrace it. Most if not all Come follow me podcasts do not cover the hard things, the warnings against us by Nephi, Isaiah or any prophet. They just leave them out so they can teach soft things that tickle the senses. All is well in Zion seems to be the thing. Be calm, everything will continue as it always has and your grandchildren will be just as we are. Don't worry at all, all is well. The Savior said the destruction will come as a thief in the night, and most will be caught unawares. I hope we all can wake up to our awful situation as Moroni said so long ago when he saw our day.
Very good info. I have turned away from focusing on church doctrine, and im led by Christs spirit and will for my life. Christ alone is all I need for truth.
I heard Kristen Oaks give a talk about this in around 2007 at the MTC. I will try to paraphrase the best I can remember. Kristen explained, “I am sealed to Dallin Oaks and he is sealed to his first wife. We will both be his wives in the next life forever. I will be with him , his first wife, and his children as one family.” Every Tuesday the Provo MTC has a devotional where a general authority talks.The wife talks for about 5 minutes. The husband talks for about 45 minutes. I was at the devotional because my husband was called to be in a branch presidency from August 2004 until August 2008. I remember her assurance that polygamy in the next life was something she honored so she could be Dallin’s wife forever along with his first wife and children. I also have a cousin who is delighted to be the second wife forever. I know many women in the church who feel the same way. It is planted very deeplI
This is horrible. The clip you shared of Elder Oaks speaking about Kristen doesn’t sound like a man in love, it sounds like a business transaction, someone that would fit in and be a team player! I don’t believe June was happy about this, it was just the next analytical step for him. Yuk!
Yikes! What a thing to look forward to. I'm divorced and if I decide to marry again it won't be a sealing if he's already sealed to another that passed away. I'll have company for the rest of this life but will find me a non sealed man in the next. There will be plenty👌😂
MS, still does not cite Isaiah 4:1 in the context of the complete prophecy of Isaiah 3:13-4:6. More importantly the complete prophecy is Isaiah 3:13-4:6. When read as one prophecy it is clear that the Lord will purge the abominable adulterers and polygamists from the city of Righteousness. The scriptures must first be clear as written by the author in that time; this is an endtime prophecy through events familiar to Isaiah but the entire prophecy needs to be understood together. It is not a divided prophecy. This complete prohecy from Isaiah 3: v13 the Lord stands up to plead and stands to judge the people (pleads with them that they might avoid judgment) v14 first the Lord judges the leaders of the people that have destroyed the vineyard (those that introduce and promote these abominable things) v15 the Lord asks those leaders: why did ye beat my people and grind their faces? (why did ye corrupt the Gospel) v16 "Moreover" (beyond that) the Lord said judgment will come upon the daughters of Zion for haughtiness (arrogance), stretched forth necks (pride), and wanton eyes (lustful desires), and mincing as they go (teasing, to entice lustful desires), tinkling with their feet (high heels make a tinkling) (these all describe the look of a "girl's night" on the town in the modern oversexualized culture) v17 "Therefore" (consequently) the Lord will cause judgment to come upon the daughters of Zion and their secrets will be revealed v18-26 "In that day" how the judgment of the Lord will be experienced (the instruments used to entice will be taken away, and those to be enticed will dwindle in numbers) c4 v1 "And in that day" why the judgment of the Lord is deserved (the perversion of the people, the defilement of the marriage covenant) v2-3 "In that day" after the judgment is fulfilled, there is a description of the glory of Zion and Jerusalem v4 ("This shall be" [IIT]) "When" before the glory of Zion and Jerusalem, both must be cleansed of all wickedness "by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning" v5-6 the Glory of the Lord shall be upon Zion for a defense of the people The complete prophecy shows that the abomination that "seven women shall take hold of one man" will be cleansed from the Righteous city that will have the Lord's Glory. I think following the complete prophecy is the best argument to those that claim polygamy is a celestial kingdom necessity, Isaiah clearly shows that polygamy is not of God nor allowed in His presence. Again, many have twisted this single verse, from the middle of the prophecy, to condone their lascivious desires in direct contradiction to the whole prophecy. Furthermore, I do not support the idea that this condemnation for the oversexualization of society is a judgment on just the women; because these things fulfill the carnal desires of the "natural man", they will be purged from the Righteous city too.
It is interesting that the very chapter in Jacob firmly preaching against polygamy and pride is used in our church to teach polygamy and pride. It's like no one even came within the same planet of what that chapter was saying. Instead they reversed it and used it as a tool for teaching that we should do exactly what we're told not to🙈🙈🤷♀️🤷♀️. No wonder we haven't received further light and knowledge.
@@justin-griffin Thank you for putting all this together and hosting it. I liked the way you did this and each had their own laptop and notes too. I noticed that you may have been very tired throughout the discussion. I hope you will realize as I need to sometimes that we don't have to save the world, you may worry alot and not get good sleep. Just know you are doing a great job, take care of yourself. Take some time for you as well as for you and your family. Prayers and blessings to you!
Procreative Ideology [false doctrine born from polygamy] What is the purpose of having a wife or husband in the next life? If you say for procreation of new spirit children, then we have a problem [this is called procreation ideology]. Procreation is for mortality only! I don’t believe in a procreative ideology in the next life as taught by the Mormon Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught differently, and said that our “spirit” is eternal, having no beginning and no end. This is a scripturally sound doctrine. 1. “Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal” (Pearl of Great Price | Abraham 3:18). 2. “Ye were also in the beginning with the Father; that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth; And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come; And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning” (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 93:23 - 25). 3. “Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations” (Old Testament | Jeremiah 1:4 - 5). 4. “For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring [meaning heir or inheritor of the same potential qualities and attributes of godliness] of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device” (New Testament | Acts 17:28 - 29). 5. “In view of Eternity” is a phrase the Prophet Joseph used in referring to the true nature of our “spirits,” [in view of eternity] is being without beginning of days or end of years. In other words, he taught that we are all co-eternal and co-equal with God, a self-existing being! He said, “God never had the power to create the spirit of man, God could not create himself.” [in other words, if you believe God did create our spirits through a procreative ideology, then you must ask, who created God’s spirit?] Hence, he said “God could not create himself.” The idea that God the Father and His wife gives birth to our spirits is called procreative ideology and is a false doctrine and not scripturally sound at all. It was born from the polygamy era practiced in the LDS Church during Brigham Young’s leadership and is scripturally proven to be a false doctrine. What is scripturally sound is that our “Spirit” has always existed [Abraham 3: 18 and D&C 93: 23-25 and Acts 17:28-29] mentioned above and polygamy has never been a commandment of God, past, present or will it in the future [D&C 42:22-26 and D&C 49: 15-17]. 6. The real marriage relationship is to understand that Christ is the bridegroom and his church is to become the worthy, virtuous and holy bride. This is a spiritual relationship we should all immerse ourselves into. Note the Inspired Version of Matt 25: 1-12 is different in verse 11. To the 5 foolish Christ said, “You know me not”. The responsibility to “know” Christ is not Christ’s responsibility, it is ours to become like Him in character, a vitious bride, filled with the Holy Spirit! So, with this in mind, what would be the purpose of marriage in the next life? Answer, no purpose in procreation! What would be the purpose for doing marriages in the LDS temples for eternity in mortality? No purpose in procreation. When the Prophet Joseph was alive all marriages were to be done in public [outside the temple of brick and mortar]. If you read D&C 124: all of it, note *32, we did not complete the Nauvoo Temple on the Lord's timetable, so that literally means the church after Joseph and Hyrum were murdered was not accepted of the Lord nor is doing baptisms for the dead accepted of the Lord, nor is the current endowment that Brigham Young pushed forward accepted of the Lord nor the temple garment associated with it. These were all amalgamated together by Brigham Young to satisfy and justify his false doctrine, "polygamy mentality." He took that which is sacred [the white garment] and spilled the blood of fornication, adultery, lies, and deception upon it, he doctored our history and weaved his lies into it [Matt 15:8-9]. This is the garment we have today! But for the “honest in heart" it can and should mean something totally different! This is what the holy garment means to me today: “But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more” (Jeremiah 31:33 - 34). And Samuel said: “for man looketh on the outward appearance, [for salvation] but the LORD looketh on the heart” (Old Testament | 1 Samuel 16:7). So, you might ask, what is the purpose of the “temple” today? The Lord has already told us [Ye are the temple of God”] but not many believe that, nor do they believe that is where the “sealing” powers really come from [See Inspired Version of the Bible Matt 7:32-33 “Ye never new me.” The LDS Church is still under condemnation [D&C 124, 84:55-58]. We have been and still are being “lulled away into false security” through polygamy indoctrination agendas and idol worship through formalism passed down by Brigham Young and those who lead us today by keeping the false doctrine of D&C 132 in our scriptures and not adhering to “HOLINESS” as described in our LDS Bible Dictionary. The tabernacle of Moses and the two temples built for Israel were symbolic of their own body temple. Our first Kirtland Temple was just as symbolic as those made in the past by ancient Israel. They all point to our own bodies being the temple of the living God and that we must become a “holy” people. A moral, virtuous people. An honest people. “Born again” in godliness. When we are “born again” or “born of God” we have no more desire to do evil, or propagate the lie of D&C 132 but to do good continually. When this takes place in our lives we are “sealed” through righteousness to Father and Christ. This is what the Prophet Joseph Smith was trying to get the people to understand but they hardened their hearts and killed for another false agenda D&C 132. See the full essay on MarriageAndPolygamy [chapter 31].
From The Book of Mormon the Nephites were told to consider the tender feelings of their wives. Polygamy does not consider the tender feelings of their wives only their martyrial subjection to the will of their husbands and using God to intimidate by them. (I hope I don't get zapped down with lightning)
In regards to Jeremy saying Emma was more intelligent than Joseph, I’d say there’s a difference between education and intelligence. Emma clearly was more educated, I wouldn’t say that means she was more intelligent.
My thoughts on this topic so far, listening to the first podcast and starting the second: there still seems to be a difference between adoption sealing and marriage sealing. I realize the church conflates the two, and consider any sealing to be marriage/family sealings by definition, but (presuming the authority to seal is still held by some in the church at any level) if sealings can properly be applied to others outside of families (adoptive sealings, as Joseph Smith seemed to try to implement) then having a second wife sealed after the first wife had passed away becomes less adulterous and more “making sure the whole family stays together.” It’s not good for a man to be alone, and having a companion in this life after a spouse had passed away, only to leave her alone in the afterlife, still seems like family-splitting. I guess an issue arises if this same thing isn’t extended to women who marry a second husband, but in my opinion, with the framework as I understand it, second sealings for women ought to be just fine. Let me know any counterpoints or if I need to clarify anything, this is just my stream of thoughts that come up while listening at work
So Emma was credible and hated Joseph's polygamy...? I thought the whole point of MBS' stance was that Joseph did not practice polygamy at all. This infighting just shows the cracks on all sides. Glad I'm not beholden to Mormonism anymore. It's going off the rails.
@@justin-griffinwhat the hell does following Jesus mean? How do you know you’re following Christ as opposed to being just being a good person who doesn’t who Christ.
@@TheArmy1775the Lord promised us eternal life if we repent, get baptized in His name, and endure to the end. That is His pure doctrine. So that’s what I do.
I hope they do. 613 rules are not enough they need more burdens put on the members. They should make your tithes 50% of your income, Hollander needs more cheeseburgers,he’s looking puny
Tbh, you are picking on Elder Oaks, who married after a spouse dies. If the sealing is misunderstood, and God works it out, technically he didn't do anything wrong by taking another wife when one dies. I understand your argument but even Joseph said if a spouse dies they are free to marry again.
Oaks admitted he would have both wives in the next life. He made sure his second wife was okay with that before marrying her. He received no commandment to do this. He is a polygamite in his heart.
@justin-griffin I guess I just give a lot of grace to people who are doing what they believe is right. I believe you can love two people. But, not at the same time. I would hope my husband wouldn't remain alone in this life if something happened to me, or vice versa. So I get what you are saying. This will never correct while any of the 12 have remarried.
I really enjoyed this breakdown and discussion about this. However, there is one thing to keep in mind about the LDS church: it only has a form of the Aaronic priesthood. It doesn't have any form of sealing power, and as a church never did. The idea that there was a sealing power comes from the story of Joseph and Oliver seeing Elijah in the Kirtland temple. It is told that they were given the keys of the sealing power at that time. That never happened. If you look at the sermons and talks Joseph gave after the dedication of the Kirtland temple he always talked about the coming of Elijah as a yet future event. This is another case of Brigham making up stories to validate his power to have multiple wives. There is a great video by Rob Fotheringham on his channel called "Joseph Smith Never Mentioned a Visit from Elijah in the Kirtland Temple". He, like Hemlock Knots, seeks out primary sources for his research. It is possible that Joseph had a sealing power, but he would have received it at a different time and from a different personage. Also, if he did have it, he would have taken it with him when he was martyred.
I've watched those videos too and heard this other places. I have been wondering recently if it's about succession at all. Alma the younger after having realized the truth of King Abinadi's words goes out and teaches the people at the Waters of Mormon. The way he received power to baptize was literally through the Spirit. It was not from another human being. Why would it be any different for any ordinance, unless it would be first who receives it and then it is passed. So, if it's lost again, the next person who recognizes the power was gone through disobedience as in the case of King Noah and the priests, then receives it again by calling on God as does Alma the younger. Here are his words in Chapter 18: and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart. 13 And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him.. Then he was able to baptize!
@@justin-griffin Justin, I love what you’ve done here. But please forgive me, I could share this much more freely with friends and family without your commentary in between. Is there any way you could post the video of only the panel discussion without the commentary so some of us could share that portion with LDS friends and family. It would be a VERY valuable resource in this effort. Thank you.
Is Envy and Jealousy a sin? Is creating envy and Jealousy a sin? King Benjamin taught that there are divers ways to sin! The solution? Jesus of Nazareth!
Oaks literally said his new wife knows she will be the second wife in their family in heaven. If you are sealed to multiple women expecting they will be your wives in the next life, you’re a polygamist.
Get your own testimony leave Philpot alone you have a direct line to what you need to know your breathless and your outrage against someone who has no calling. All he saying is I’m preparing for the savior to come to Adam on leave him alone get your testimony of what you’re supposed to be doing, instead of attacking members of the church, you sound like kindergarten level study students in the Scriptures you don’t need to talk about what he’s doing. You need to know what the Lord is telling you what are his signs you can you can count on them being one of them, you need peace. You don’t need to stir up the pot about what Philpot is doing. I hope you find peace.
The short answer is No! The reason God gave "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people," was fulfilled and is not necessary with the thousands of missionaries. Furthermore, Martin Luther and others had NO problems with polygamy, because the Bible nowhere condemns polygamy for EVERYONE. In fact Martin Luther and four other men signed a letter giving permission to a German Prince when he asked if polygamy was permitted. So the has nothing forbidding polygamy, except the kings of Israel to excess in the Old Testament, and only for Bishops and Deacons in the New Testament. The Book Of Mormon speaks far more plainly against polygamy than the Bible, but gives the ONLY exception, which I quoted earlier. But God defended Moses when he took a second wife who was Ethiopian, God supported Abraham and Jacob, and God says himself that HE gave David ALL his wives except Bathsheba. And a brother who has an older or younger brother which dies without children, the living brother was required by God to marry his brother's wife, or be publicly shamed, no exceptions for already having a wife and/or children of his own. Why did God command these brothers to practice polygamy? To keep the land of Israel from being given, traded, sold or otherwise falling into the hands of non Israelites. These people claim to be speaking truths, yet they cling to third hand accounts that support their position, and reject first hand accounts that contradict their position, but the fact remains that ONLY the current President of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints CHOSEN by God, makes proclamations that affects the whole Church, these people have NO authority to change history. And neither does this channel. The wrongs of this man don't justify the wrongs of these people, and the wrongs of these people don't justify the wrongs of this channel, three wrongs still don't make any of them right.
And just because you are able to confidently regurgitate the half baked and decades old justifications for what anyone with an honest conscience knows was wrong and has stained the work of Joseph Smith and the true principles of Jesus Christ’s ministry doesn’t make you right either.
@@RunningtoHim828 You mean because I speak facts, instead of ignoring them like you? The facts make me right. That is why they have stood for decades. And the numbers don't lie. Only 5% of men were Called by God to practice polygamy, and 25-50% of women (the percentage varies from study to study), and even though the practice only lasted for about 50 years, 20% of all members today trace back to polygamists, notwithstanding the millions of converts since then. Brigham Young alone has over 30,000 descendants, while Joseph Smith Jr. only has 23, as DNA has proven, all through Emma.
