Those guys were thinking "Uh huh... we got us a genuine dope smuggler that's a master of disguise. He looks like a junior high band director. He's a master!!!"😂😂😅🤣🤣🤣
Man, you guys need to get your lawyer buddy back on the show to talk about ramp checks and what can/can't be done. There is mass confusion on this. Would make a GREAT episode!
Probably nothing to do about it now. They consented to the search and waived their constitutional (4th Amendment) rights. Not worth it to push back. That might have stepped on the egos of the officers, leading them to make up s__t and arrest them on trumped-up criminal charges to justify their search after nothing was found. You never know.
Searching your plane like that needed a warrant. You didn't need to consent to that search. Make them work and obtain a warrant. If you're not entering the country like at a port of entry, they can't search you like that without a warrant or consent.
They also might not need a warrant if the rules are similar to boating inspections. I don’t think those boating inspections are legal either but the courts disagree with me, apparently.
@mike73ng the only warrantless searches allowed by law of the inside of your aircraft are of you are entering the usa from another country of origin, or solid probable cause like something illegal in plain sight. An FAA ASI can perform a ramp check on a pilot, but he must show FAA form 110A and is only allowed to ask for pilots license, photo ID, a current pilot class 1,2 or 3 medical certificate, an airworthiness certificate for the plane, weight and balance sheet for the plane and a current FAA registration. Your 4th ammedment protection against warrantless searches do not disappear if your flying within the airspace of the USA.
You should have never consented to the search. They don’t have that authority without a warrant. Call AOPA legal if this happens. Provide the legally required documents and information and nothing else. Remember “ARROW”.
@@mike73ng boat searches within the USA are relegated only to safety inspections for the required safety equipment needed on a boat and checking documents, it's not a carte blanche opportunity to search a vessel. If the boarding party finds probable cause like a operator that smells like alcohol, or open plain sight violations of the law, then that leads to the plain view doctrine upheld by the SCOTUS.
Dan, I agree that a follow up video with an aviation attorney addressing our rights as citizens and some advice regarding both FAA ramp checks and LE searches would be very worthwhile.
Unless it's an FAA inspector presenting a form 110A for a ramp check. I'd tell them to get a warrant and go on my way. After going through many FAA ramp checks without incident, this kind of harassment is unheard of. I have had encounters with TSA and they have been quite cordial after I challenged them when they try to approach my plane trying to be sneaky. One cargo ramp I was working on, they spotted a person who didn't belong, and he was arrested by airport police. He did show his credentials and after verification with Washington DC, he was released. He did write a nice letter commending the alertness of the ramp personel and the training they have received. A Cessna 172 can basically fit two people in the front and one adult in the back, don't these clowns have bigger fish to fry?
They don't need a warrant. We're not talking about Sheriff Jones here, we're talking about CBP. Different rules apply. Specifically: The federal government defines a “reasonable distance” as 100 air miles from any external boundary of the U.S. So, combining this federal regulation and the federal law regarding warrantless vehicle searches, CBP claims authority to board and search a vehicle without a warrant anywhere within this 100-mile zone.
@@ScottsSynthStuffYour wrong. They need a probable cause to search your vehicle even within 100 miles of the border. It doesn't matter if it's a local sheriff or CBP they still have to comply with the constitution. It's only at the border itself that they don't need probable cause.
@@ScottsSynthStuff oh the Constitution is suspended for 100 miles of the coast, sounds made up, they searched because he consented, they would have to have a warrant otherwise, period
This was NOT a "ramp check", it was a law enforcement action - big difference. Only an authorized FAA inspector can perform a ramp check. Perhaps a good time to interview a lawyer and post a video reviewing the difference, pilot/individual rights, and the limitations placed on law enforcement when it comes to aircraft.
He consented to the search. Shouldn’t have done that. Nothing illegal occurred due to consent. Now - a video pointing out that you should Never… ever… not ever… give consent for a search would be a phenomenal idea for the AOPA to produce…
@@arctain1 Yes, I guess I was remiss in that fact - either a warrant or permission to perform the search. But you are also 100% spot-on about denying a search without a warrant. Never allow any official to circumvent the laws put in place to protect the populace - they will expect everybody to be compliant then.
I had a similiar issue recenlty. Flew from the Midlands in Ireland to the Isle Of Man for the TT races. We landed into a farmstrip and had 5 Customs officers waiting to meet us. They searched the Microlight and checked some of our documents. They were lovely and quickly realised we were there to see the racing. They did say it was crazy, flying from Ireland in "this thing". Well able for it! We had good fun with them and they were lovely to talk to.
In early to mid 80’s an attorney from Eugene Oregon was returning from Canada when he stopped at Blain Washington to clear customs. Custom guys decided to tear his Fairly new Beachcraft 35 apart and like what happened here left all of his stuff and aircraft parts laying on the ramp. When he informed them of the recourse they would face they just laughed at him, said he couldn’t afford an attorney to take any action. Now unfortunately for the customs boys neither of them were pilots and after two years of court proceedings they learned an every expensive lesson that you shall not dismantle an aircraft unless you are an AP or an pilot doing one of the 29 items we are allowed to do. He was compensated for the damage they did and they discovered they are not exempt from FAA prosecution. That case was likely the reason no effort was taken to dismantle any part of your aircraft.
I'm not an American, I get my information from the news and spend too much time on RU-vid and researching stories. But to a foreigner the United States sure seems to be slowly going down the path to becoming a police state. I hope that I'm wrong, over the years I have had the pleasure of meeting many wonderful people and it's difficult to make the connection between these friendly outgoing individuals and the way America is presented to the rest of the world.
You're absolutely right. I had always supported law enforcement 100% but not any more. Too many jackbooted law enforcement thugs harassing citizens. We are going through an attempt to turn America into a one party government. The Democrats are the real fascists. I feel bad for my grandchildren because they will be the ones to suffer from this takeover of America.
It got there with a major boost from the US Patriot Act, the most UnConstitutional legislation ever allowed to be passed by Americans who know nothing. Their ancestors fought and died for freedom & liberty and these weak beta-males just give it all up. Guys like this girly-man are the reason the USA is collapsing into Communist China.
The authorities have a long history of conducting illegal searches even in the US of A. People in authority are only human after all and power tends to go to their heads when they are given a badge. What makes the United States a free country (not unique but free nonetheless) is a commitment to the rule of law and a court system that will penalise those who cross the line if given a chance. The fact that this guy can discuss this incident without fear of prosecution on RU-vid is all the proof you need that the United States remains free.
FAA can do a ramp check on your documents etc, but you can tell DHS to go pound salt. You are not required to show them anything unless they have reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed a crime. They were on a fishing trip and you bent over and took it. File a complaint on them for harassment.
You are required to show them the required documentation under 61.3(l). You are NOT required to allow them to enter or search the aircraft and you are NOT required to answer any questions.
@@JohnnyChoppah is right. If someone with a gun and a badge (law enforcement) asks for your documents you have to produce them. This is clear in the FAR. Now, whether you just show them your documents or actually hand them over is something I’ve heard debate over.
You actually have to show them documents and it would have gotten worse if they didn't. BUT what they can do is force them to get a warrant to search the airplane itself
Wrong. They don't need a warrant. We're not talking about Sheriff Jones here, we're talking about CBP. Different rules apply. Specifically: The federal government defines a “reasonable distance” as 100 air miles from any external boundary of the U.S. So, combining this federal regulation and the federal law regarding warrantless vehicle searches, CBP claims authority to board and search a vehicle without a warrant anywhere within this 100-mile zone.
@@ScottsSynthStuff CBP are the gestapo. I've had only bad experiences with them. Very unprofessional and rude. I've had bad experiences with them in airports when there was absolutely no reason to have bad experiences. They just want to flex and be mean all the time.
Crazy! This government is way out of control. No American citizen should EVER have to go through that without iron-clad PROOF of some wrongdoing! Every year things seem to get worse. 😣 Thanks for sharing, Josh - sorry you guys had to deal with that.
He likely didn’t have to comply with the search but did voluntarily, and the feds were probably tipped off by someone suspicious. I am glad the feds followed up on the lead if that was the case. At least they’re doing their job. This could have been avoided if a nosy asshole didn’t call in the tip (most likely what happened), and the search could have been denied until they had a warrant. Only thing lost at the end of the day is time. Lesson: Don’t tip off the feds unless you have a damn good reason. Two guys flying a Cessna across the country isn’t a reason to call the cops.
So appreciate your honesty Josh in relating to the flying into IMC and picking up ice. I'm sure you learned a lot from this decision and will likely not hang your neck out so far next time. Most all of us are guilty of pushing the boundaries while flying, most of us are lucky to still be able to talk about it. This serves as a reminder to limit our risks to an acceptable level.
Excellent pilot story. I watched every video Josh did of that trip. That was definitely a crazy ramp check. Thank you Dan for having Josh on the channel again. Keep up the excellent work as always. Safe skies my friend 🇺🇸🛩️
About icing - An instructor that flies everything from a Cub up to 747 told me to always watch your airspeed indicator. If you're straight and level it should maintain your airspeed. If it starts to drop off, you're picking up ice. The rate it's picking it up determines how long you have to do something about it. So in my case it was 150 kts down to around 80 kts, then I have big problems staying in the air. Either go up or go down and melt it off as soon as you realize it. Otherwise, you're going to need to land soon. This advice ended up helping me. I was over Virginia and that happened. There wasn't supposed to be icing. I contacted ATC and they gave me a lower altitude and the speed went right back up to where it was.
So happy to get an insider peek behind the curtain of one of my favorite Aviation 101 series. I was equally excited when you announced the plan for a follow-up series. As always, thanks for sharing even when it was a surprise & an unpleasant experience.
i got ramp checked once in australia, it was police and our aviation authority, it was during the time when you didn’t need paper maps and electronic devices were now legal. they couldn’t understand what or how the electronic devices worked. We had come nearly 500 miles that day . They stripped the aircraft including the interior out . They were on their cell phones taking photos etc. they thought we were shipping drugs around the country . Then they said ,”ok you techno nerds ,we have finished “ They then left. The police didn’t have a clue how a GPS worked or moving map existed. They off off panels ,interior side walls and part of the ceiling inside ,
"Officer, I will not resist or obstruct you, but I do not consent to being searched." Clear. Concise. Non-confrontational. Throws the ball back in their court.
Back in the day I flew a single engine cargo route from the Bay Area to Reno and back. I never tied down the cargo in the back of my C-206. It consisted of bags of developed and undeveloped film. Not exactly heavy, mostly bulky. One day I noticed a car with FAA stenciled on the side waiting for me on our ramp area. In a brief flash of brilliance I scooted the the faaaaar end of the ramp, shut down and immediately threw out the bags of cargo. By the time the car got to me they couldn’t see that the cargo wasn’t covered with a cargo net. Whew! The rest of the ramp check was uneventful.
I’ve been told if the FAA is ramp checking you and they ask you for your pilot license and medical, you show them but do not let them have it. Home land security, ramp check, I don’t know. Hopefully somebody here can tell us. Josh your way more patient than me.
You are absolutely within your rights to show but not give your documents on a ramp check, but it's going to annoy the agent and make it take longer. I believe the reason behind this "show but don't give" advice being passed around is that people believe that handing your license/medical to the FAA inspector can be considered "surrendering your certificate". This is a myth. Assuming that I'm flying legally, they can take and inspect anything they are legally entitled to inspect. Nothing good is going to come of annoying the inspector; I am sure they have plenty of legal ways to make you miserable if you get on their bad side. If they want to search the plane without a warrant, though, they can jump in a lake.
My best friend is an aviation attorney. You should have never let them search anything. They didn't have the right to do that and especially when they said well this looks suspicious well suspicion is not a crime again suspicion. Is not a crime? They had no right to look through that and you shouldn't have let them look through anything. I know you were trying to be cooperative but they were tyrants abusing their power
AOPA states that all we have to do is show them that we are in compliance with the FAA Part 91 regulations. We don't have to allow them to board our aircraft if being used for Part 91 operations. I keep a copy of my documents and Part 91 Ramp inspection job list sheet with my copy of documents in the cockpit. As, they don't get my originals. Just to verify that I'm in compliance.
@@jhmcglynn I understand what you mean. But we as Pilots/Citizens have rights that must be upheld and respected by all. If they have a warrant. Of course by all means search away.
THEY DIDNNOT HAVE A WARRANT! Total overreach. The only acceptable answer to any of the questions would have been “I don’t answer questions” and “Am I being detained”
I've been flying for 30 years, and I was told in the very beginning that there was a good chance that I would never get ramp checked. 3 months after I earned my PPL, I got a ramp check. Since then nothing, so you never know when it'll happen
Back in the 80’s I taxied a airplane from one side of the airport to other side of the airport that had 3 inches of snow on the wings. As I taxied by the FAA they freaked out. They came racing up to the airplane and wondered what I was doing. They tried to violate me and I told them you only had to remove the snow if you are flying and that I was parking in the sun and was going to clean the aircraft off before I flew. So after 15 minutes on the phone they told me yea nothing about taxiing with snow as long as the windows are clean. Never asked for pilots license or any other documentation.
You stated DHS but it was most likely CBP, (DHS). This is something they have been doing for decades. They have an Air and Marine base in New Orleans but it could have just been ground pounders. They believe that they can do whatever they want and nobody can stop them. I know because I used to work with them. I really felt guilty sometimes when I heard of some of the things they were doing, like when they landed a UH-60 right next to a Cherokee Six in Florida right after the pilot had landed and taxied to parking. It flipped the airplane over with the pilot inside and they demanded that he get out with hands up, of course. Destroyed the airplane and they did not pay for the damage as far as I know. They have to justify their budget which may be much more substantial now that they are part of DHS and not the Treasury Dept. This sort of thing is happening on all levels of government, unfortunately.
What I would be worried about is maybe someone putting a "package" somewhere in an inspection panel in Santa Monica in hopes to retrieve it at your final destination. It's a stretch but if you get caught with this theres no good way of walking away from this situation maybe.
Drug smuggling in small GA aircraft definitely does occur It happened in Carlsbad,CA just 2 weeks ago when a plane ran out of fuel and had to land on a highway in middle of the night.
The wrong people were asking questions after the initial confrontation. When they asked their first question, you should have stood your ground and not answered anything until they told you why they were there and what they were looking for. Then you could answer what you liked, and refused anything you didn't want to answer, and not a single item in the aircraft was open for inspection or search unless they showed a search warrant and probable cause for the search. You guys got hosed.
Too bad you did not film the encounter. Would have probably made for an excellent training video for both pilots as well as Homeland Security who likely overstepped their legal bounds - and it (the video) would likely have gone viral. Thanks for sharing.
They didn’t have the legal right to search the aircraft without a warrant or reasonable suspicion of a crime. You just say “am I being detained?” and “am I free to go?” If they say you are being detained, you ask what for. Doubtful they have the right to do a ramp check, but I’d be glad to do a ramp check because that’s quick enough. But if he says he wants your consent to search, you just say “With all due respect sir, you’re holding me up right now, and I would like to be on my way. I’m not doing a long search with you right now until you come back with a warrant.”
I stand corrected in the guide to ramp checks: 3. Don’t - Consent to the FAA Entering/Searching the Aircraft Unless conducting commercial operations (which follow a different set of ramp check guidelines) the ASI does not have the right to enter the airplane. They do have the right to inspect the interior from the outside, but that can be quite difficult for them to do if you have sun shades in the windows. Be polite (see Do #1) but explain that you have been advised not to consent to them entering the aircraft. Once inside, items observed to be out of compliance can be included in any action the FAA may take against you.
@@markdesimone9801 and where's your law degree to claim I'm wrong? lol, that stupid comment works both ways. My friend who is a lawyer says I'm right - there's the credentials you asked for. Read the 4th amendment buddy. No one has the right to just conduct a search inside your aircraft besides what is visible from the outside of it if you didn't cross any border.
@@justinborysenko3885 I'm positive you're wrong. The FAA can conduct a ramp check, which involves verifying certain documents and registration plates are onboard. A search of your personal things? 4th amendment violation. What Josh here is describing is a consensual search. That was his choice.
"Maybe he did want the cash, he is a fed after all." lol priceless. By the way, legally, they didn't have the right to do about 80% of what they did except you permitted them.
That's what I was thinking. No warrant? NO SEARCH. I got my pilot's license nearly thirty years ago, so I'm a bit rusty on rules we may or may not have agreed to, but I'd be surprised if they (especially homeland security) can just demand to search your plane. I did experience that at the Canadian border upon entry and re-entry though, and I believe they are allowed to do it at border checkpoints. If anyone knows the accurate details about all of this, I'd appreciate your input.
after crossing a border, yes, absolutely they can. However, they cannot demand to search the aircraft (like your car) without a warrant. You MUST present a valid ID and pilot certificate to law enforcement or the FAA if asked but they cannot just search your aircraft. Now...with that being said, the two pilots here did give permission as far as I can tell.
Several have said what I’m about to say, but it bears repeating. This was not a ramp check - the FAA does ramp checks. this was a police search, but not unlawful. You agreed to it. Some lessons learned and I hope the big take away for those watching is to politely tell these assholes that you do not consent to a search. Any other questions like”where are you coming from and where are you going”should be answered by politely reciting the 5th Amendment to the US constitution. They are Feds and they hate the constitution but so far are still bound by it. Thanks for sharing.
I remember my one and only grandpa check at an airshow after I first got my PPL. I had two friends and we went to an airshow not far from where we were based. This happened back in 1989. The guy approached me showed his badge, but he was from the FAA. He wanted to see my certificate, Medical, Logbook, and the airworthy certificate. After I showed the documents and talked a little bit about Flying he told us to have a nice day. That was the only experience I ever had with being checked pilot. I guess I got off easy.
Feelings of deja vu. I had a ramp check of my 172 by US Customs at my home airport west of El Paso in the late 1970’s. They claimed I was spotted going north across the Mexico border at low altitude and very high speed … in a 172! I was testing my plane in a designated student practice area after an engine overhaul. A 210 started following me as I was going back to my airport and the 210 had 4 customs agents on board. Fortunately the airport owner (also a very good lawyer) was there and ripped them up one side and down the other side. Complaints were made to the FAA identifying the pilot of the 210 and I think he lost flying privileges as he was flying very aggressively at me. Bad memories.
There's a clause in the 4th amendment that allows certain kinds of warrantless stops within 100 miles of the US border. Game Wardens also do not need a warrant nor probable cause/reasonable suspicion. Sucks but that's a "know your rights" thing.
Love, love, love your videos...keep them coming!!! Right after you spend an hour with an attorney to learn your constitutional rights... You need to understand the difference between reasonable suspicion and probable cause. You could have easily saved an hour of your time by telling the feds to pound sand.
My friend got ramp checked and to make a long story short, they observed him doing aerobatic maneuvers in the pattern. In a DA20 he pulled up steep. Bank and pitch maxs are in the FAR AIM and it lays that all out for pattern . They made him do his private all over again.
@@briancasey7693 Airshows exempt, check FAR AIM it say like no more then 30 pitch and 55 bank something like that in pattern only. The local FSDO got him on that.
Gotta stop that weed. Let's now concern ourselves with coke in the white house or Hunter Biden doing coke with Malia Obama or fentanyl at the border. Homeland security of the "mission"....
You should NEVER consent to a search without them presenting a warrant to do so. It doesn't matter if you "have nothing to hide". They do NOT have the right to search your property without probable cause or a warrant. Next time tell them to come back with a warrant.
11:30 What was suspicious was your route and pace of flight. Coast to coast including southern California, short time span, landing at airports not listed on your flight plan (GTU instead of HYI), and in a non-descript aircraft. They probably became interested in you because of a search algorithm scanning federal flight-track data. The fact that it was two males in the airplane and it was fully loaded when they finally caught up to you probably just gave them a bad case of federal-agent goose bumps. You matched all the checkboxes of the ones who did that trip with illegal cargo onboard and didn't get caught. I know if was a major hassle for you guys; who wouldn't be upset by that encounter? But I also imagine they felt defeated too. They are charged with finding and stopping flights of distributors, they thought they were over the target, and instead they just looked like a couple of Barney Fifes. Yes, you could have said, "Lawyer", and "Get a warrant", but it seems to me in this situation that would have just pushed them to a hole new level of "These are the guys we've been looking for!" type attitude. Your inspection plates would have been coming off for sure with that reaction.
Ah yes, invoking your rights means you deserve to be hassled. To many of these law enforcement flex power that they don't have. It's also not my job to make their life easier or care about their feelings.
remember in the video Josh and crew provided the AROW documents as required by law. They then consented legally by voluntarily unloading all their stuff from the plane. If they had refused then the agent would be required to get a warrant if he had the basis, which it wouldn’t appear he did, otherwise they couldn’t search. However if during their trip they crossed any international borders they would be searched under border and customs laws. No warrant needed for that. 😮 A police officer or federal agent authorized to enforce federal laws pertaining to aircraft can require production of the AROW documents and border/customs laws. A ramp check is more for aircraft safety concerns.
FWIW. Seems like if you were to avoid major urban areas like New Orleans the likely hood of encountering a federal agent of any department would be pretty remote.
Interesting that they're looking...now you know. Its easy to watch n follow with all the new tech. Bigger question is why they chose to detain you...because of a traffic route?1?
Bring pot back from the west coast is big business. They keep track of anyone going out west then turning right back around heading east. You can profit a $1000. a lb so if you did 100lbs that's a cool one hundred thousand dollars profit.
I’m speculating that this happened because of some kind of algorithm spit out of ADS-B records. A small plane going coast to coast in a short amount of time. I think I would have reacted like you by going along with it , with the exception of giving them your documentation. You should show it to them, not give it to them. They definitely don’t have a right to take possession of without a search warrant. If you would have told them they need a search warrant, they might have gone that direction and it would have taken a lot longer.
Our requirement as pilots to "cooperate with law enforcement" does not mean you give up your 4th amendment protections. All you needed to do to cooperate with them was identify yourselves and then show them your id. After that I would have also offered the aircraft registration, politely told them I'm not answering any other questions without more information, refuse permission to search me or my aircraft, and then call legal representation (AOPA legal unless you have an attorney on speed dial). Without you crossing the ADIZ they had no authority for a warrantless search until you gave it to them by consenting. Merely knowing you flew a long distance across the country isn't probable cause for a search. Also you were under no obligation to show other required documents of a ramp check because it wasn't a ramp check.
Not a ramp check. The only thing you needed to show them was your pilot certificate and possibly other ID . You must have authorized them to search the plane so that was on you. If you did not authorize them then it was an illegal search talk to a lawyer. I would have demanded they get a warrant. They only thing I would say to them repeatedly is "I do not consent to a search of my person or my plane" and "am I free to go?" With all your cameras or a phone record the whole interaction.
Had the FAA show up as I was pulling out a glider for instruction. Ramp Check. Oh really? You ever ramp checked a glider? No? I took over, explained to my students what a ramp check was. Had to explain to the FAA that, no, a POH is not required, it’s all on placards, no the weight and balance is there on placards. No, there is no electrical system, I have this handheld radio. The poor guy was happy to move on to a helicopter that had landed,
I've got one a bit crazier: Standing on the ramp at Houston Hobby airport. Nice cabin class Cessna twin taxi's up and parks and starts shutting down. Immediately behind it taxi's up a Cessna Citation with all kinds crazy radar and camera pods all over it. Stops directly in front of the first Cessna and all kinds of Feds in tactical vest come pouring out and surrounding the first plane.... just some unlucky Mexican nationals catching a charter flight from Brownsville to Houston...🙃
I have a place north of Del Rio Tx . Not in the middle of nowhere but right next to it. I’m surprised they don’t check me being I’m landing that close to the border.
I flew out to private ranch on the Devil's River with my brother a few years ago. There was not a strip , just a 1200 caliche road. Laughlin approach didn't understand where we were going. They scrambled two T-38's to look into my cockpit of my 172 and broke off. It was so cool. We had to land in Del Rio for gas back to home base. We had two really nice guys come up posing as GA pilots. CBP is obvious.
Wow ! That’s crazy ! I don’t fly there very often but my neighbors do on a regular basis and as for as I know they’ve never had an encounter like that. None of our strips are on the charts . We are in the MOA.
I'm out of KDVT. The footage of you 2 over the canyon inspires me every time I watch it. Thank you so much! Then you need to learn the 5 words that get you out of situations with "authorities". "I have nothing to say". Also "I do not consent to unwarranted searches".
These agents are amateurs. Having grown up in South Florida in the 1980s around aviation, I saw lots of "pharmaceutical" delivery operations. 2 guys flying from Cali with weed, with a transponder, flight following, IFR, and in a nice clean 172? Not with any "pharmaceutical" operations we ever observed here. Taking Off really should cover the drug flights of the 1980s. Wild times. I remember we had a padded chain we would wrap around our prop - a "prop lock", very common in S Florida... But raised eyebrows when we put it on the plane in Amish country.
Worked on a 310 that came from Colorado and smelled very strongly of the devils lettuce. It was also once owned by Anheuser-Busch. Heard similar stories happening nowadays.
"Am I detained?", "I don't answer questions without a attorney", "I don't consent to any searches or seizures", "I said don't interrogate me without a attorney present!"
I'm curious as to what year this happened. I know AOPA was having a big problem with law enforcement (particularly DHS/CBP) conducting seemingly random searches of pilots' aircraft back in 2013. They raised a big stink about it - making inquiries & FOI requests to CBP and DHS, and even threating to take it to congress - and it seemed to die down after that. The bottom line is, that if stopped by law enforcement of any kind, you are obligated to show them your license, medical, photo ID, and your aircraft's registration and airworthiness certificate. You are NOT obligated to allow them to enter/search your aircraft, personal belongings, or person unless they present a warrant, you are passing through a CBP checkpoint upon entry from a foreign country, or it is an FAA inspector that has presented their 110A. AOPA puts out a nice card that you can print off/screenshot about what your legal obligations are with law enforcement, and how to politely tell them no if they insist they need something further. It is available here: www.aopa.org/-/media/Files/AOPA/Home/News/All-News/2013/June/CBPGuidelinesKneeboard.pdf If this happened recently, I would *highly* encourage Josh to contact AOPA (or any other GA advocacy organization) and give them the details. They will want to know and take action.
Hey, cop here (local PD, 8 years), also a pilot. You got screwed. Unless they had a warrant or probable cause, and unless they were the FAA, you could have told them to pound sand and leave. I'm even questioning their ability to bring out a dog at this point, but they could probably get away with that much if it's a port of entry. That's about it. Picture me pulling over a random person and tearing apart their car with zero probable cause. I'd get sued and fired. Rightfully so. This should serve as a warning to all pilots everywhere. Do not let this happen to you. Freedom only exists if you care for it. I know the games law enforcement plays to get around a search warrant. Consent is a thing, however, you are not required to give it. I'm sorry this happened to you. No wonder everyone, including myself, hates feds. Have you contacted AOPA's legal guys over this? I would. Stay safe out there and keep up the good work.
Wrong. They don't need a warrant. We're not talking about Sheriff Jones here, we're talking about CBP. Different rules apply. Specifically: The federal government defines a “reasonable distance” as 100 air miles from any external boundary of the U.S. So, combining this federal regulation and the federal law regarding warrantless vehicle searches, CBP claims authority to board and search a vehicle without a warrant anywhere within this 100-mile zone.
That was not a ramp check. That was a search. And as someone with 24 years of experience in law enforcement, I'm going to have to say it was an illegal search unless your friend consented to it. The agents may have had a reasonable suspicion that you guys were moving dope after some questioning about your route of travel, but I do not see how they could have possibly had probable cause. And probable cause is the minimum standard needed to conduct a search without consent.
Yea,you got played by govt....I was on a 135 flt check at SJC..when the ck airman decided that I lied about the date on my elt was wrong; so he removed it from my Seneca 3.i told him he'd have to get a ride hm as I had a certified mechanic re instal my ELT.i sent the faa the bill.my employer was furious...Mr burns had a problem with a/c owner....there NOT your friends; be cautious with any fed
“What the hell is going on?” That was not a ramp check. That was you being detained without probable cause or reasonable suspicion of a crime for a fishing expedition. Sadly, law enforcement, emboldened by court rulings, often now do things that are clearly in violation of citizens’ rights as stated in the Bill of Rights. Because you didn’t push back, it didn’t escalate, yet it did cost you significant trip disruption and stress. For the record, I am not anti-cop. I have many friends in law enforcement. Thank you for sharing your story.
I would have done the same thing whether the DOD has the authority or not. I’m assuming your not leaving until they get what they want, whether that means getting a warrant or finding some dumb reason to detain you and search the plane later. Just a crummy fact of life these days I guess.
I understand rap checks from the FAA. Even though it was homeland security I do not think that was a legal search. I think that is why they was asking you if there was anything in the plane and you should just tell them. Then they have your consent do search. I would be cool if you had the attorneys back and ask them. Now with that being said I think you would of had bigger problems if you protested the search. Just my opinion.
@@ryanjones48 ya sure, and then they make it their business to "inconvenience" you to the maximum extent possible. Not really worth it if you have nothing for them to find.
What if the would have implanted drugs, if that’s what they were looking for and turn around and say “aha, we found something”. You would have been screwed Josh. It can happen.
@ShesOnly12 Well, it's an "inconvenience " for them when you are a law abiding citizen minding your own business. Unfortunately, most LEO need periodic reminders of law abiding citizens rights!
OK Here is how to handle a ramp check 1. Say NOTHING, smile. 2,. Get out , Lock the plane 3. Show them your certificate, DO NOT hand it to them. 4. Say " If you want to contact me further please do so through the mail" 5. DO NOT SAY ANYTHING ELSE NOTHING They are NOT there to help you . 6 Walk away 7. If they try and detain you ask " Am I under arrest?" The answer will be No Walk away DO NOT SAY ANYTHING!!
LEOs fishing to take someone to jail. Not a ramp check. You gave them permission to search your personal effects for the purpose of law enforcement action.
Hey josh … not pointing fingers but it was probably Brian, i mean I just watched a video of his where he used your tail number on a bunch of odd oil samples….. I would start there
Never talk to a LEO or Fed without an attorney present. Never give permission/consent to search a vehicle. Hand over documentation and say nothing. Do not allow the government to take your God given rights!
Incorrect. LEO's do not have Federal authority to do a ramp inspection the same as the FAA, but they do have the authority under 14 CFR 61.3(l)(3) to require you to present your pilot certificate, medical certificate, and photo ID for inspection at any time. They don’t have the authority to inspect aircraft documents or aircraft content without a warrant.
Being suspicious isn't a crime nor does it give an authority probable cause to search or detain anyone. Always say no to a search and contact your attorney, period.
