Тёмный

Motional Feedback Speaker contraption and camera test 

joppe peelen
Подписаться 7 тыс.
Просмотров 992
50% 1

Well a friend of mine made me a prototype hes working on (Big thanks to Sander de Jong for making the amp and sensor and explaining how to use it !) to play with, of a MFB correction system the new idea been the way it acquires the signal of what the woofer is doing. making it possible to even use it on flat panel speakers in theory. if its useful ? remains to been seen but if you don''t try... you never know. i first try it on a random woofer (since that has more change of success).
i got a new camera and i am testing it at the same time. see how it fairs. i might need more light or a different lens. PLEASE let me know what you think of the video quality ! since i dont know but now when i look back it looks rather pleasing :) (looked like shit in my edit software)
More info about MFB over here: justaperfectsound.nl/motional...

Хобби

Опубликовано:

 

5 апр 2024

Поделиться:

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист
Посмотреть позже
Комментарии : 23   
@thomasspilcker8382
@thomasspilcker8382 3 месяца назад
And new Magnepan . Look forward to that .
@Elnufo
@Elnufo 3 месяца назад
There is a spike in the microphones frequency response at 2680Hz, makes the audio "whistle" a bit - for lack of a better word. its just a little too loud at that frequency. The Old camera did not have that. And yes, i used FFT Analysis on this video to pinpoint the frequency. You can ignore my comment, its just me nerding out on audio 😊
@joppepeelen
@joppepeelen 3 месяца назад
haha you went in depth !!! well i like your approach !! never did that on a youtube video though, but well i can take that !! since look at the old videos and see how much noise there was. people even thought i was cheating when i was recording audio from the speaker from the zoom. since the camera sucked so hard in audio haha they though i was just playing audio directly in the edit program... (must be deaf as well)
@Elnufo
@Elnufo 3 месяца назад
@@joppepeelen yeah well, people are... well.... people. 😂
@AJBtheSuede
@AJBtheSuede 3 месяца назад
About the speaker - one of the things MFB does is to change the output phase behavior around the resonance frequency. Typically you have a 180deg phase shift from 1oct above to 1oct below the resonance, and this adds overall group delay. That group delay (or phase shift depending on how you see it) is what IMO changes the most with really low tuned, big sub boxes. Two 15" subs tuned to 17Hz have a much lower group delay (and phase shift of course) at 35Hz than a smaller sub tuned to 35 Hz.... So even if you play them both at exactly the same level, with content that contains NOTHING below 40Hz, you will hear a difference. At least I think it's pretty obvious... But it all depends on how the MFB is set up, and what the bandpass limitations of the feedback loop is. This is fiddly indeed, I've done this with industrial motion control motors positioning several hundred kg's with tens of thousands of Newtons of force. Then you REALLY get to know when you messed up :)
@joppepeelen
@joppepeelen 3 месяца назад
interesting, my knowledge of MFB is not going deepe enought to have an opinion in this case haha normally i have but... i dont know :( there is one thing i do know. Low end from a closed MFB corrected system to me at least sounds... well nothing like any sub i ever heard !! or any ported system. lows are like planars but better ! best of both worlds i think even
@NackDSP
@NackDSP 3 месяца назад
Excellent topic and video. I tried to do this ten years ago and was not able to get a very linear optical sensor. I was trying to use a line of light and then block part of it with a tiny shade that was attached to the cone. My attempt at a low noise preamp that included the double differentiator, required to convert the position measurement into acceleration needed for the feedback would of course amplify the high frequency noise from the optical sensor. It turns out individual photons hitting the sensor look like noise, so a bright light is useful to get a good SNR. In the end I decided it was easier to buy linear midrange drivers from SEAS that would produce 0.1% distortion without feedback. It will be interesting to see what kind of SNR, and distortion figures you can get. The measured wave on the scope looked to have a large non-linearity which i would expect if the amplitude is changing due to distance from the source. Very fun project. I also tried to use laser interferometry but the range of motion of a midrange or tweeter is huge. It covers the transition between less than one wavelength of visible light and multiple waves, and the waves can go by at rates above 50 MHz. So that gets tricky. Keeping the moving mirror parallel to the fixed mirrors would be difficult as well.
@joppepeelen
@joppepeelen 3 месяца назад
haha yeah thats the funny part or not :) i did not design this idea :( i did ask a few times can we somhow make it work for a a planar. no this was not his goal i believe but a method to make MFB possible withotu having to add something to the driver. ease of construction sort off, but in my case its more potential to play with it with random drivers/planar :) so for in depth questions feel free to contact Sander de Jong i guess, since i am not able to answer then :(
@NackDSP
@NackDSP 3 месяца назад
@@joppepeelen So great to see you charge into the unknown. In my last job I spent six years developing capacitive sensing. I would think that you might be able to measure the capacitance between your diaphragm and the front and rear screens/magnets to derive a position from that. Unfortunately the capacitance with distance between parallel plates is a 1/d relationship, so not linear. Maybe with a fast CPU processing measurements from both the front and back of the diaphragm could do the job. There's a reason you don't see motion feedback midrange and tweeters on the market. It's very difficult to do. Ha. That's what I like about audio. There is an endless supply of difficult things to do. I bypassed the passive crossovers in a pair of 3.7i Magnepans with a 3 Channel Hypex plate amp and digital crossover. The improvement was great. The stock crossover had shallow slopes and did nothing to tame the midrange bump in the woofer output. I haven't measured he response of the model you have. It will be interesting to see. I was able to bypass the crossover without pulling off the cover. If you get to that point I can give you more info on how to do it.
@Rowuk2024
@Rowuk2024 3 месяца назад
You have LED transmitters and receivers for the sensor device.
@Rowuk2024
@Rowuk2024 3 месяца назад
EQ sounds very different than motional feedback because EQ changes everything at every volume and MF only changes what error the speaker system has.
@mathiasjohannesson9833
@mathiasjohannesson9833 3 месяца назад
That is a very interesting comment. Most EQ filtering like fir, Dirac etc are not controlling the drivers them self. Just adjusting the output at certain frequencies. And they do nothing to limit the cones from getting out of good sounding travel /nothing to limit the distortion of the drivers when they are asked to deliver more output then they usually can deliver. Is there a good way to att MF to an eq compensated speaker? Or should MF do it all? What about compensating the speakers sound to fit the acoustics of the room?
@Rowuk2024
@Rowuk2024 3 месяца назад
@@mathiasjohannesson9833 in theory, motional feedback will make the response linear, regardless of volume as long as there is enough power and power handling. It generally is driver correction, not room. I am not aware of a dynamic room correction possibility as room problems are different for every position in the room.
@Rowuk2024
@Rowuk2024 3 месяца назад
Large aperature lenses (small F numbers) reduce the depth of focus. It is usually better to get more light!
@joppepeelen
@joppepeelen 3 месяца назад
yeah might need to :( thanks !
@Rowuk2024
@Rowuk2024 3 месяца назад
@@joppepeelen ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DhbMnQt14_o.html
@AJBtheSuede
@AJBtheSuede 3 месяца назад
That G7 has a 1" sensor, which is about half the size of the APS-C in the Sony, so the f/1.8 G7 is almost exactly the same light input as f/3.5 on APS-C. A very easy way to explain why is that the ONLY thing that matter to the physics behind it is the size of the front pupil. Nothing you do behind the lens entry pupil can change the physics of light in front of the camera. So the Sony kit zoom is almost exactly the same in that regard, no better and no worse. And no, I didn't think the image looked "soft"... :) Congrats on the new camera In stead: Get more light - a lens with a bigger aperture will give you a very short depth of focus up close. That's really hard to work with in video unless you put a lot of work into it and really know what you're doing. Sony have some really good/reasonably cheap 35/1.8 for E-mount, but it's still 350e... Video and photography is often MORE about lighting something correctly than having the "best" and most expensive camera equipment :)
@joppepeelen
@joppepeelen 3 месяца назад
thank you so much ! i should have known these things back in the day...(only 14 years back)... but it has been to long ago :( i forgot everything i did not need at the time. but yeah your sensor explaination .. i did not even think about !! very nice. so i will be looking for at least some light, can you tell me something about prime lenses ? since they can have much better F ratings and for most things i do not need zoom like this kit lens.
@AJBtheSuede
@AJBtheSuede 3 месяца назад
@joppepeelen On a budget, that's not that easy... But there are things like the Viltrox 33mm F1.4 AF, and the Tamron 24 or 35mm f/2.8 Di lenses for around 200Eur. The Tamron lenses are cool both because of being actually very good, AND they focus down to a scale of 1:2, which is very close indeed for a "normal" lens. That's like filling the image frame with a target that's 50mm wide. Allows you to get really close to details. Most faster lenses don't get very close. Samyang and Viltrox have a range of good/acceptable autofocusing f/1.4 and f/1.8 lenses from 24 to 50mm at around 3-400Eur too. But with primes you need to pick a focal length. Work with that kit zoom a while, and see if there's a single focal length setting you think you could live with. The only reasonable faster zoom I've tried for Sony E APS-C is the Tamron 17-70 f/2.8 at 5-600Eur, which is half the price of Sony's own 16-55mm f/2.8 G.
@yo3429
@yo3429 3 месяца назад
f 3.5 is fine for your use! ...OK, maybe focus is better with a f 2.0 ... but DOF @ 2.0 is really tiny for that kind of work.
@joppepeelen
@joppepeelen 3 месяца назад
hmm yeah, still thinking about it :) i hate the fact it never focused on the sensor. besides that. when i look at it now the image looks far more pleasing some how. i love my carpet better in the video then i do in real life :)
@jean-lucbattista2492
@jean-lucbattista2492 3 месяца назад
Any latency and/or phase shift in the sensor will greatly limit its usability as a servo controller. From your traces, it seems to be lagging quite a bit, so it's either the speaker that's too slow, or the sensor, or both. Incresing the gain is supposed pull the system earlier, closer to the signal, but when you did, the sensor's trace started looking weird.
@joppepeelen
@joppepeelen 3 месяца назад
except for it lowering the resonance and extending the low end :) i expected it to lower res more then it did though. and i think it has to do with the controll of the panel itself i am afraid :(
Далее
Push Pull Ferrite Bass Planar magnetic speaker - Part 1
32:55
НОВАЯ ПАСХАЛКА В ЯНДЕКСЕ
00:20
Просмотров 1,3 млн
2DROTS vs WYLSACOM! КУБОК ФИФЕРОВ 1 ТУР
07:25
BELIEVE IT OR NOT THIS IS A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT...
14:10
I tried to make a camera sensor
30:00
Просмотров 710 тыс.
20 CAMPING INVENTIONS THAT GO TO THE NEXT LEVEL
20:03
IR Remotes & Microcontrollers - Arduino & ESP32
1:31:50
Просмотров 169 тыс.
телега - hahalivars
0:12
Просмотров 12 млн
САМАЯ КРАСИВАЯ КНИГА
0:23
Просмотров 3,3 млн