Multiple Speedrunners Caught Cheating In Trackmania! 

I dont have a pc

We cant Beat the Legend himself.

Wtf 24.02 you are actually cracked

Im not a speedrunner so that aint gonna happen

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boy

hi!

pog

HI

I knew Wirtual before he was cool!

lol

lmfaoo best comment I've seen on Jobst vid a while, beautiful :')

Not to confuse with the totally legit world record holder, Rodd Togers of course.

Todd Togers and The King of Con would like a word with you

This made my day better, thank you.

savage xD

He accidentally set the real world to 0.1x speed right before he started writing

@@snakely MegaLUL

PFFT I LOVE THIS

Award for best comment

It looks like it's someone's notes on the structure of a binary file format.

Not 'any competent programmer' just 'a competent programmer' so long as at least one of us has it.

It made sense when you knew what to look for. I would say you also had to be well versed in Trackmania to know the significance beforehand.

He said competent programmer. /s

I guess it was the [nameInputSomething] that stored the input, seems like a tab in Java

totally agreed

Yep!

True

So true

my man Matto

Yeah I can’t imagine what he was thinking reaching out to Wirtual for looking at Techno’s runs

Yeah I can’t imagine what he was thinking reaching out to Wirtual for looking at Techno’s runs

Yeah I can't imagine what he was thinking reaching out to Wirtual for looking at Techno's runs

Yeah I can’t imagine copy-pasting someone else's reply

Yeah I can't imagine copy-pasting someone else's reply.

That’s amazing!

@@Ravenesque Yeah i watched it earlier

Rollin beat the cheaters fair and square. This is why Trackmania has one of the best speedrunning communities ever

@@Ravenesque by now its a 23.80 by i belive drarker but im not sure about that

Yeah, after the record was opened up another speedrunner found that if you had a great start, you could barely powerslide on the turn after the downhill. That extra speed boost really opened things up again.

It’s basically like modern doping detection that still uncovers juiced athletes from 30 years ago on top of the current ones.

@@magicmulder ya it's awesome

@@magicmulder *on cemetery *points at a tombstone "Yeah, that guy was on steroids."

@@enderan647 I should not have laughed at this omfg..

No props because they cheated in the first place. Years spent cheating is not absolved because they realized they were fucked and came out early for sympathy.

Underrated comment

@I watched this well I did kinda change it up, but yea, it was of course inspired by all the other comments

666 Likes lol

@@garlicwaffle6146 .25

Yet they didn't look into it for 10 years. In the latest game the inputs are encrypted before storing them into the replay files. Therefore we cannot use the same method to look for cheated runs. Ubisoft Nadeo will need to do it for us. Edit: At least for the slomo-aspect. The physics validation feature is dope!

@@andretaulien398 Nadeo didnt moderate the times themselves only up the newest TM2020.

@@andretaulien398 TM 2020 does have an actual anti-cheat system, unlike Forever.

Not all games would benefit from it. But yeah, they did a great job here.

To be fair, TM is a game actually dedicated to speed running, it’s the actual point of the game. Their replay files are generally only kilobytes in size so it’s great for uploading speed runs as opposed to getting recording software and equipment then uploading videos

That do be the Wirtual energy 🤣 he’s just your friendly neighborhood Trackmania speedrunner/ speedrun history explainer RU-vid channel…

Imagine how many are going to come back upon seeing this video. We've got a new wave of speedrunners coming.

@@MrGreenYeti I've been playing non stop since this video dropped. So far my best A01 is 24.26

What makes Riolu an illegitimate speed runner. Trackmania accepted his records based on their own parameters. Online gaming will never be a level playing field.

@@TheMeefive It's called exploiting a loophole, not 'abiding by Nadeo's parameters.' If it really doesn't occur to to you that cheating makes you illegitimate, than may I suggest finding a new piece of shit speedrunner to simp over.

@@davidpowers746 Buying a monitor wit a superfast refresh ate is exploiting a loophole. Having a fast internet is exploiting a loophole. All these things give you an advantage over the average person. Online gaming has never been a level playing field because the best equipment will always give someone an advantage. Cussing up a blue streak won't change that fact.

Lol

This video is the first time i've ever heard of this game

:D

@@jamespilcher5287 guess you arent european game is one of the most popular here

@@justawarlord i suppose that brexit means i'm no longer european

@@mdbk2 I disagree. Most people (at least on the TM subreddit) urged others to wait with their conclusions until the other side (Donadigo and Wirtual) presents their side of the story.

@@Paraverso The opposite happened on Twitter. Everyone there dogpiled on Wirtual, saying how much of an asshole he was. Basically Twitter being Twitter.

@@Paraverso Not really, they just edited their comments after the report came out to preserve their precious karma-points.

@@davidci Everyone? Nah. Not even the majority. Just a vocal few.

Playing the witch-hunt card is so cringe. He must watch a lot of Fox News.

He is still top 10 players world in term of skill without cheating

He didn't cheat in competitions. If he only cheated and wasn't actually good, he would've been shut down from the start.

@@gaiekkurvanov1841 Name a cheater who wasn't good? Dream is good, still cheated. This guy though made it his entire career, this one game. Made his fortune from it. And his fame against those other 9 top players... is mostly because of his WRs.

@@defiante1 there thousands of cheaters you just don't notice them cause we are not talking about it when they are not famous

@@gaiekkurvanov1841 Sure. However cheating scandals? About famous players? Nearly all of them were good. Him being good at the game doesn't excuse his cheating for WRs and using it to bolster his fame and draw money from. Nearly ever major scandal on his channel covers a well respected gamer who was top tier, who began cheating. They were all wrong. However most of them were in the niche speedrunning community, Trackmania is all speed.

I mean, you can clearly see some bendy rear wings in these replays

@@iy42 R/woooosh

@@iy42 For folks who don't know, this is a joke about Todd Rogers cheating in a game called Dragster. Karl Jobst has a video on it called "The longest con in video game history."

@@mem3b0i_ Yeesh, I apologize for trying to drag F1 into this, I have nothing new to add to the overdone Togers stuff.

@@mem3b0i_ you don’t get it lmao

It's also a really good time he did there.

I did the same with gay porn. It wasn't worth it

@@Blernster r/cursedcomments

no, that's actual journalism for you

@@TheBinaryHappiness then Jobst is a game journalist?

And riolu is my favorite baby pokemon >:(

The whole point of the game is to manipulate the code to set the best time. If Riolu found the best way to do it, good on him.

@@haka-katyt7439 yeah but it’s evolution is a furry.

@@TheMeefive That's not the point of the game, you'd be an idiot to think so

@@enotsnavdier6867 I guess you think the point of the game is to use software to count how many times another gamer presses his controller. The point of every video game is to manipulate code.

Well... Watch Wirtual's vid on it. It does end on a high note. Imagine pursuing a world record that's humanly impossible to achieve... and beating it, as the camera pans to show one of riolu's cheated records beat legit.

Teeechnically, all TAS runs in TM are humanly possible they just have absurdly low chance to occur even to the best players. As one wise person once said, good players cheat to save time.

Makes me mad just thinking about all the legit players and streamers out there that never get anywhere despite putting down a ton of effort into it. We have to assume all the best are cheating in all games (not just speedrunning) that involves a lot of money from now on since this seem to be so widespread.

@@urstupidm8 Technically everybody can win the lottery as well, but it's not at all a guarantee that anyone will win it during their lifetime, so quite a bad excuse to use. And in this case I highly doubt a human can perform like this.

@@urstupidm8 tas that is humanly possible, as an f zero gx enjoyer i find that laughable

As a programmer and cheater his explanations were spot on. Great work indeed.

@@JohnSmith-ox3gy hol' up

Agreed. This was a really enjoyable video. Very well explained.

@@Slimmeyy xD his comment made me laugh for a long time

Keep in mind these are videos about people playing video games quickly.

totally wirtual way

Man pulled a summoningsalt xD

@@justarandomdood totally ;D

i'm pretty sure he did that ACCIDENTALLY

He pulled a Wirtual

*sax starts hitting those godly notes*

@@soregiviktor8980 definitely should have played the sax

I knew I wasn't the only one who thought that was a reference to Wirtual

I can imagine Wirtuals voice so well :D

Actually laughed out loud which doesn't happen much. Nice.

Yeah Riolu's response was basically to deny everything and attack Wirtual's character, psychoanalyzing sentences and making fun of him in front of his twitch chat who was eating it all up.

Yeah Riolu's response was basically to deny everything and attack Wirtual's character, psychoanalyzing sentences and making fun of him in front of his twitch chat who was eating it all up.

Yeah Riolu's response was basically to deny everything and attack Wirtual's character, psychoanalyzing sentences and making fun of him in front of his twitch chat who was eating it all up.

Why tf are replies same

Yeah Riolu's response was basically to deny everything and attack Wirtual's character, psychoanalyzing sentences and making fun of him in front of his twitch chat who was eating it all up.

Dozens of cheated runs are bad, hundreds of them are concerning, but thousands are absolutely disgusting.

@@flickcentergaming680 look, I can get if someone cheats like, once on accident or on purpose out of frustration. I can get angry at someone who did this dozens of times but decide they don't gotta be condemned to hell for it. banned, maybe but not condemned. BUT THOUSANDS OF FUCKING RUNS??? DUDE. GO TO JAIL, DO NOT PASS GO. I CANNOT UNDERSTAND. absolutely fucking bonkers

Would have been perfect :DDD

I don't know if I groan and jokingly tell you to go sit in a corner or to applaud you for this. Lol

Lmao 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 nice.

Take my like and leave

@@Marceline_PokeXenoblade flip a coin

@@Marceline_PokeXenoblade applaud as they sit in the corner

Actually, has any other racing game has been this active for this long? this game is at least 13 years old Technically 18 years old if you count the previous game who some content was taken from It's also a very good game for speedrunning, it's very objective design wise, just accelerate, brake and turn

@@rompevuevitos222 you didn't get the joke

@@rompevuevitos222 NASCAR Racing 2003, Re-Volt, Mario Kart 64.. they most certainly exist, though certainly not with TrackMania's popularity.

@@Derpy-qg9hn Mario kart 64 only keeps receiving attention because of speedruns and has been outclassed by newer games of the series that are straight upgrades or just Crash Nitro Kart which did it better Never heard of any significant amount of people still playing NASCAR 2003 but what do i know I also never heard of Re-volt so not gonna talk about it Trackmania still has a lot of servers tho

Ah yes, the Dream method

That’s literally just a method to save some face. Cause they know they’re gonna get caught :/

@@victorcardenas8198 The point is that it is the best method when you know you're gonna get caught. Unlike the riolu method.

The best method for them. It is the last resort to be forgiven. They are getting busted either ways. I'd honestly rather they stuck to their Guns so they are completely ostricized, because if they weren't given a heads up that they were screwed, they would have never stepped forth. They cheated and would continue to cheat if they weren't about to get caught red handed. This is done out of self interest and nothing else and they deserve No redemption for it

@@rojibeans5816 There is nothing that is not done out of self interest.

same

Riolu is basically like technoblade in mc, or MrSavage in fortnite. One of the most famous players, established for a long time, etc.

@@littlemisseevee2309 and one of the best in the world

@@simonuser wdym, skywars players have known for years that Technoblade cheats

@@joshuazhong2520 ???? I don’t understand your comment

I think the guy couldn't muster up the courage to face the music and maybe try to rebuild something or start over or at least confess to what's obvious and apologize to his fans and to his fellow players, he prefered to just vanish off the face of the earth instead of dealing with consequences of his own actions. Just shows what sort of character we're dealing with. Cheating in life the same way he was cheating in the game.

I don’t find the behavior shocking at all. Quite fitting, actually. A slimely cheater isn’t going to have the maturity and backbone to admit fault. He’d just crawl away like a pussy. Which is what he did. Seems on par behavior.

LMFAO

I don't mean to condemn gender-neutral pronouns but seeing a witch being referred to as "they" is fascinating (not so long ago it certainly would've been "she). Maybe soon enough we'll all just use "they" for everyone, that'd get rid of a lot of controversy.

@@ryos.5974 Because all witches are female

@@ryos.5974 this is and sounds so fucking stupid, if u speak a language that has noun genders (german)

@@ryos.5974 The fun thing is that witch used to be gender neutral as well. Nowadays you might hear witch (female) and warlock (male), but warlock was a word adopted from Scots.

5Head

The Matrix technique

Galaxy brain

I saw the APM input graph of a cheater and it's pretty obvious they are already maxing out their ability to perform inputs at normal speed. Their inputs look like they are squished when the game is run at half speed.

Are you playing in 20021?

Thank you

looks like the patch is still flawed since someone made a software to modify the replay and make it look valid. A game can never be 100% cheat proof. People will always try to find things to exploit. But Donadigo is working on making it even better now.

@@Ankanogradiel It's an arms race between cheaters and devs

Generic comment

​@@sasdagreat8052 True. But hopefully in games the evidence never disappears. I believe that most cheaters will be dealt with, especially the ones on the top.

@@sasdagreat8052 The cheaters will always win unfortunately because they can develop new techniques and if they are quiet about it keep it secret. The devs always need to be hyper-vigilant compared to the cheaters who just need to find a flaw and exploit it and there is little financial incentive for devs to constantly update something like TNF; after-all it's a 100% free game that is nearly 14 years old.

*Togers

I agree, would love to see. Glitch hunters as well, imagine where speedrunning would be without the people that find these tricks and exploits in the first place

You should watch Summoning Salt's videos when he covers a World Record's history he covers everything, the major found, the people who found them, the player who beat record....etc.... His video are really informative and shows how much people and works can go into a single category of game.

@@nesoukkefka1741 I agree, yeah. I should clarify though that I am a speedrunner, I already know a lot of the stories, I'd just like to see them told more

@@nesoukkefka1741 I've watched every Summoning Salt video and they are great. I'm just referring to specific people who are huge to certain speedrunning game communities but never run games themselves, such as Donadigo here. People who put their expertise to work, not by pushing the times lower but helping others realize where they could push the times lower.

Check the channel "ThaRixer". He's got good videos allmg that line. One in particular is a video titled "The man who broke spyro in half"

I wouldn't call it a TAS even though it's technically correct. Just speedhack (TAS was mentioned because Donadigo ended up finding out the method to investigate the cheating in his process of creating a TAS tool)

@@BigDBrian Slow motion is a form of TAS. For example, in Minecraft, all TAS are slow motion

@@BigDBrian Tool assisted speedrunning can be done in many ways. slow motion, frame step and input crafting are some of the most common tools, but there are also things like macroing and variable tracing that can be used to create TAS videos too.

@@kaelanm-s3919 they know, they even admitted it “technically is”, just that while it matches with the definition it’s not really what people typically mean when they say TAS. It’s true, but calling it that would give most people the wrong idea if not explained

@@snowfloofcathug I disagree with the assertion that TAS *must* be the whole shebang of slow motion savestates and memory hacking and rerecords and the works. Even the earliest TASes on TASVideos were done with primitive tools, and if its there its a TAS.

It's even more popular now

A true dick move.

What an asshat. This reminds me of some games I’ve played where some achievements or gameplay wasn’t play tested very well and it ended up being unnecessarily difficult or tricky. But an cheated run would have been nearly impossible for a human to do normally, kinda like Todd Rodger’s Dragster record.

Same story in all competitive games that involves money sadly. I don't watch any "pro" gamers anymore for this reason, and I have stopped watching sports as well part from team sports which probably has a lot of PED use as well but at least there are more important factors involved.

He may be a good player but he is certainly not a good person

This is why just deleting the records doenst repair all the damage. Riolu, screw you

What do you mean that their levels of perfection weren't possible? Obviously they were possible using the methods these guys used to get them Where in theoriginal game play rules was using a device that gives you an advantage listed as cheating? Is a guy ho uses a moniter with a 0.01 refresh rate cheating people who have a tv with a 30 second refresh rate? No, they just have better equipment.

@@TheMeefive In the game its okey maybe. But in a speed running community it is cheating. Also by your argument wall hacks, aimbots and other cheating tools are allowed. Or athletes can freely drug themselves up for better performance. If its only new equipment.

and its free samu :)

And the new one is way way way better than tmnf (imo)

@@sirdamian7766 Doesn't the new one have most of the content gated behind a subscription tho? Or am I tripping?

It looks very good considering it is from 2008 with practically no updates.

@@Sorrelhas it does have quite a lot of features for subscriptions. It’s still some fun without though (assuming your computer can run it lol)

Todd Todgers? Is that you?

The funny thing is gears are actually super super important in trackmania too, starting from second on A01 could literally save a good few hundreths lol

Todgers and Bitchell are like riolu, deny deny deny even when they've been caught beyond a reasonable doubt.

takes one to know one

The absolute legend called us absolute legends..what an honor..

Just like Apollo was.

Ur awesome ... Reeves: Ur awesome

Hopefully, but Karl never rushes to cheating scandals.

I could have believed him the first days after, as a simply mistake forgetting about a modified file he used for manhunt. After so long and so many excuses he has no credibility at all. Where we can see his excuses though?

At this point, it almost feels more like Dream trying to stay relevant like that, or rather milking that for some more publicity... But that's just my naive opinion on it.

@@umbaupause Dream's community is twice as big as it was at the moment, he does not need to "stay relevant" in speed running

I honestly started to hate dream during this whole thing. I’ve seen so many people have their lives ruined because they faked speed running. They lost their whole community, and even if they changed their ways. But for some reason everyone can forget about dream. It just makes me annoyed especially how he never admitted to it (that I know of) and how he had previously excoriated drem who cheated before him. I can no longer watch his manhunts which I used to love, and it makes it much more annoying to see how many people love him in the dream smp series (which besides for him I like)

Yeah, hearing that really deflated my motivation to go for those medals in that game.

@@logarhythmic6859 they might be lying

It was so strange to hear him just start swearing like that. I know voiceover-style videos tend not to really reflect the personality of the person doing it, but it was still so jarring to hear that, lol.

I like how his accent also came out more. It was jarring but fun to see an excited Karl.

He's an Aussie, of course he swears his head off. I'm amazed he managed not to launch any C-bombs during the stream :D

@@SSM24_ they don't have the same strength of meaning in Australia. The worst thing about censorship is

I had the same thing happen, I binged both Wirtual and Riolu after discovering TM only a month ago, now we're here.

@@steffenp7384 loved to put his CotD videos on in the background :( I was really torn when I found out he cheated, but when I saw the clip of him mocking Wirtual it was made clear how that’s not a person I want to support

The same happened to me, i discovered TrackMania in November 2020, stopped watching it, but it made its way back in April 2021 (I have been watching it since)

same.

Have my german like for using "Schadenfreude"

my pb should be .11 iirc lol

Wirtual's PB right now on A01 is 23.98. He's held multiple WRs in the game on other tracks. Unreal time, especially for only 1 week of grinding.

@@justrecentlyi5444 Karl spent years upon years grinding WR's in Goldeneye and other N64 titles, he definitely has mindset and dedication that fits TM. But yeah, definitely is a crazy good time.

Honestly, I feel like good speedrunners share traits that will translate to multiple games if they're determined. Precision and persistence will get you a long way

I know I'm a bit late here, but I've been playing Trackmania since 2011 and I'm feeling mugged off knowing, that a guy, that played this game for 1 week completely smashed my PB of 24.18 by 2 tenths of a second...

How can you not have heard about this game

Agreed. What a legend

How can you not have heard about this game

Eh, i say, Ross Scott is pretty good at that too.

Right? I've never heard of this game, but apparently I've been living under a rock.

So genug Schabernack

understandable have a nice day

@@raddysurrname7944 thank you very much

Trackmania is essentially the most pure racing game out there, there's zero RNG elements or ways for competing players to screw each other.

@@THENAMEISQUICKMAN Eh I wouldn't say most pure racing game, there's way more competitive racing games out there. However difficulty and cost of entry is just so much higher with many other racing games out there.

Trackmania and Smash: two communities taken down by horrible people.

@Antonio Trivelloni a lot of people for example zero got exposed around the same time

Naja im bundestag hat man halt viel freizeit und wenig zu tun.

hab nach den comment gesucht

@@defmanwalking Isso... Genauso wie jeder auf seiner Couch sitzend besser weiß wie Politik funktioniert als die 700 Abgeordneten im Bundestag. Ganz analog zum Fußball...

I get a lot of back lash too, when I present evidence that contradicts the witness's statement, specially when the music keeps playing and the health bar hasn't gone away

@@Sir_Isaac_Newton_ please tell me this is a Phoenix Wright reference lol

The really cool part was that it was even possible to audit the files in the first place. I'm a little shocked nobody thought to wonder how the verification process worked earlier.

The track that makes you feel like you're floating through space

LOL Oh yeah! Same here...that tune is absolutely hypnotic...my brain associates it with goodness!

Ach Scheiße*

@@schroume hier gehen wir erneut.

He knew the accusations he was building. Those were some of the very top players who had big followings. Anything less than a watertight report would have backfired on him... I can't imagine the pressure he & Wirtual were feeling while writing that report.

what I find amazing is that he initially wasn't even try to find cheaters. He was just creating a tool to help people learn from other runners, and ended up stumbling upon a bunch of suspicious play

The report has almost scientific standards. Well done stuff I didn't enjoy reading it because of the betrayal of trust it exposed, but it's obvious that it's better this way.

So you could say he- Summoned Salt?

Should have included the music.

Summoningsalt got some of his music from EmpLemon and he said that from a comment in one of his Mario kart videos

I think "I did this" is from WirtualTM

you're*

yore*

Whats with people correcting other people

yuan*

@@son1c_gamer To fix the human race

Same haha