my thoughts regarding the concept of closed species featured gift art by: toyhou.se/jinxedmutt background music used in this video: • stream cafe - matcha m...
i encourage yall to watch the whole video before making assumptions about my positions! *neutral stance ≠ mixed feelings* and i explain my thoughts on that in the video! me saying i have different thoughts on different aspects of closed species does *not* mean im just...neutral and id really appreciate if yall digested what im saying before implying i hate inspiration?? or something :') and then proceeding to restate things ive...already said...in the video you were commenting on
I follow closely a closed species that has the BEST rules for this - yeah, its closed. But you can make as many unofficial characters for their species as you like, you can break whatever rules etc provided you make it clear that the character is not an official member of the species. The species also lets you participate in events to earn their fancy currencies to trade with other users and buy the little ticket that makes your design an official item.
i like closed species like that where you can get myos just by participating in the community and dont actually have to spend money. i feel like it's so inclusive that way. i know one where its an option to get their fake currency just by drawing characters in that species, so if you really like the concept, but don't want to pay money, you can just doodle a few characters.
@@squirrel83 Pond Ponies! They've got such a cool social community as well! And, if you're looking for official designs, they have systems to earn those for free as well! Its definitely been a lot of fun to be part of their community lol.
@@iamaylacat3935 that sounds awesome!! :D i’ll definitely have to check it out at some point, im always on the hunt for new art communities to join lol
I like closed species to an extent. I think you really summarized my personal opinions (and probably a lot of other peoples) on the matter perfectly. Wonderfully done video as always Qwizz
Im in many closed species servers and have many closed species ocs and is a mod in one closed species, i think this video just sums up the whole thing on closed species, some are original, some are sorta, some are good people and some have badish people
Closed species seem like collectibles to me. A lot of the appeal is the brand, even if the design is still important (however original or unoriginal it seems). I avoid them mainly because I tend not to get attached to characters I don't design myself, so it'd be a waste of money. Making species is fun and I do it for my own stories very often. I usually share my personal notes on them as "open species" because on the off chance that someone is inspired by my ideas, I want them to know it's okay to be.
From an outside artists perspective... most of my work is cosplay/larp focused. I have no issues with a closed species approach in it's early stages. Unique designs and lore take time to develop and get out there. Ultimately once you pull the lid off a design it will find copycats, fall flat or become a point of innovation spawning new ideas if nothing else. No point in stifling creativity for ego sake. Ultimately my goal would always be to get to the point of a semi open species. I would really only take issue with someone trying to profit off the back of my work without at least a "hey do you mind" email/message. Personally I would take an official species fursona art, and probably offer official fursuit options for that species. Kind of following in the beauty of the bass's footsteps.
closed species are interesting imo, but only because of the lore and the community surrounding it. im not very engaged on art communities online and rarely if ever post my art, but all of my characters don't have a fixed species, and they're the combination of many animals and characteristics i find interesting ,all put into one character, and none of them are the same ''species'', so i think im largely at risk of being said to be copying an original species due to this, but i don't really post my art so idc, however just wanted to share this since i haven't met many people who dont really mind species and just kind of make the character, with no mind to species or being bound to certain characteristics
I had to hop multiple accounts because I accidentally made a pretty common mix of traits. Like I went from 2 followers to hundreds of death threats because I thought shrimp people would be cute.
in what way? you can draw characters in a closed species if you want to, nobody is going to reject free art. if all that you want to do is draw a certain design, i'd say go ahead and do it, and send it to the owner of that design (you don't even have to post it if you dont want to) if you're talking about MYOs, i agree that it's kind of strange to pay someone to make your own design (because in that case i'm not entirely sure what they're actually selling to you) but from what i know, the reason closed species owners sell an MYO is more for the ability to participate in the community events and add to/be included in the species lore, and less to just make a design. i think of it kind of like an arpg--you pay to be able to play if you want to make a design of that species but don't want to pay for an MYO just make the design without referencing the species. closed species owners typically do not care about knockoff designs/designs inspired by their concept
I may not necessarily agree with closed species, but I sometimes have an urge to get involved (with the ones who don't go after people with similar species) since some of them look pretty cool-looking.
Fun fact! You can just draw them! If you don’t care about it being “official” and you aren’t just copying someone else’s design verbatim, you can draw whatever you like if it inspires you!
I dislike a lot of closed species because some are literally just an owl, thats it, or the constilations closed species which is literally just an animal with stars- that isnt original Ive seen people make that for years- or box cats! thats literally just a cat with a box on its head! some closed species are lazy and clear cash grabs like box cats- if you are charging 300 plus bucks for a box cat, I will just make my own because you're telling someone that they cannot make a box cat, a cat with a box head, or else theyre stealing your idea.
chimeraons (idk if i spelled it right) are a great example of a design that isn't really that original. They're basically a type of chameleon but furry. (Not to mention the creator of that closed species likes cub art allegedly)
When Pikachu fan made species were a thing back in the 2010s or so, I was harassed for accidentally copying a design, the community was full of cool concepts of wich only remains are the Glowchus and Rainbowchus, however Glowchus admins understood what they were doing and you can make one for free unlike how it was back then. In the 2010s it looked like a conspiracy. Only close friends of X person could make a Chu of certain species and many times it wasn't even fair as people who did not know these things would get harassed too. There was many potential lost in many things just because they behaved like closed species, now almost all of them are dead or straight up disappeared. At least you didn't have to pay like many closed species groups do nowadays...
I personally dont understand the whole “i made this species and only I and __, __, and __ can draw said species. The rest of you have to buy characters made.” I get that they made it, but its kinda weird to me- cuz i really like the whole shrimp cat creatures but i cant make an oc because its a closed species so im not allowed to. i am NOT hating, the whole idea just confuses me a lot. In my opinion people should be able to make ocs using the species with while crediting the person if you post it/if you show the oc to anyone. I dont see why you have to pay to even get an oc. it bugs me a bit, but once again, not trying to be rude or anything i swear-
i personally never interacted with or made anything related to such communities to say i have any experience with that, but being someone who generally has opinions against the ridiculously long length of copyright and how some entities tends to be more than happy to exploit the uselessness of the Fair Use argument, i see the idea of closed species as being mostly hostile to the process of creative works. like sure, it's nice to not misrepresent the origin of something you know came mostly from someone else, all things considered, but thinking someone can restrict or erase the creation of a whole bunch of possible ramifications to a design just because they labeled one is severely messed up. not to say that this also exposes their misconception that they think copyright is to be held on the same grounds and conditions as something like trademarks are.
personally, im neutral on them like you are, but i feel like people should be able to make one if they want to without any extra stuff. just if they make one and dont get it approved or whatev, they cant participate in the community, so both sides r happy. (you might have said somethin on this in the video but i forgot so-) n like you said in the video if they do make one inspired or even just that species but unoffical, they should call em unoffical or not use the same name, cuz claiming its part of the species when its not is just,, rude.
I'm incredibly late but could I ask your oppinion on cons (constelions) I have a few myself, and love the designs, but people overprice them so much it's insane
My opinon is that closed species are an extension of the concept of intellectual property, which I am fundamentally against because of how much it stifles creativity in opposition to its stated goals. I understand plagiarism being bad, but to insist that people not draw closed species if they aren't allowed to is essentially the same as an IP holder having a 0 tolerance policy towards fanart, which is not something that most people appreciate. The problem with closed species is the power given to the owners over something that by all rights too vague of a concept to justify that power. After all, what are we operating on? The honor system? On-site moderation/admin tools? Social consequence? How do you stop someone from being a dick if they make an extremely unoriginal closed species and take a draconian stance on its distribution? Such unnecessary gatekeeping in a medium that thrives on open borders is counter to the spirit of creation. And if this creates a system rife with potential to be abused, then it should be scrutinized and questioned as much as possible until it is either fixed or done away with entirely.
Best way to counter extortionate businesses is to do the same but better. Nothing can stop you from making a species similar to the closed one (as long as you don’t trace, steal art or literally copy everything verbatim) and giving them away for free and making your own little club about it lol
hey there! i use a free brush pack by @gorefrosting on twitter :) you can download it from them here! twitter.com/gorefrosting/status/1641448539980169219
Honestly, the only closed species i have a current dislike for is Primagens. Im not in the community for them, nor do i really know much about them. But something that always upset me was the fact that they always limited what i could do with Protogens, which led to my loss in interest for the species. I learned about protogens before primagens, and everything ive wanted to add to my protogen characters were locked behind primagens, so i only see primagens as a wall that blocks my creativity for protogens because of the similarities. More specifically, a paywall that im too young to break since i dont have my own money.
I have some species of my own species cowbun, axtolcat and a puncoon when i first did the cowbun it was open, i believe(i cant remember its been a long time) all of them are opened for anyone to make heck i use to make some for friends to whoever wanted one(i might go back to it!) Tho sometimes i feel like i would trust my friends more with my species then random people while i can understand why people dont like them i feel like its based on the trust please correct me if wrong i hardly know much about the topic but im trying
You have good points, personally i dont like the concept of a closed species especially when the creators want you to pay like 200$ or even sometimes in thousands for a permission to make a character
I made a jollyraptor not out of spite but it was a adorable concept so I made one it's just my personal little jollyrapter dude he will never be shown on the internet and so I don't really think it matters that I made one sense know one will ever know what it looks like
PROTOGENS ARE CLOSED??? i thought they were an open species honestly. this may be out of date information but i thought protogens were an open species but theres some sort of version of them that's closed? i'll have to look into it but to be fair they are quite a unique concept, i think they're just so popular that if they are closed, a lot of people don't even know
@@Qwizz I did some research on them because I wanted to make one at some point. Protogens are semi-open. You can make one with common or uncommon traits for free, but one with rare traits will require buying a pricey myo slot, winning an event, or winning a monthly raffle. You can also only have 8 rare protogens. Primagens are entirely closed and very few of them were ever made to be sold.
I’m not trying to hate. I’m just so confused how anyone can remotely be “”neutral”” about closed species. You know how nfts just generate the online images and say you have to pay for them- when there’s no way anybody could actually own an image of a monkey like property? And how the only way to really own an online image is by commissioning someone to make a piece out of an idea YOU came up with, so you basically have your finger prints all over the piece and even when other people steal the image you would have been the one that foresaw it’s process and tailored it to your liking and there’s no way you can change that? Closed species feel like nfts to me. You put something really creative and beautiful into the world and if anyone wants to do basic fan participation around it they get charged. Because they want to make a little guy. You get paid to WATCH SOMEONE ELSE MAKE FAN CONTENT FOR YOUR CREATION. And there is no way I could even begin to justify that. Again, no aggression, just frustration and confusion. How can you have opinions like this?
i have a neutral opinion because, as i stated in the video multiple times, not all closed species operate identically and my thoughts vary from closed species to closed species. some are extremely restrictive whereas others aren't. i don't think closed species are really the same as nfts at all. nfts are ridiculous, and i one hundred percent agree with that. because the image itself in an NFT has no purpose. people don't buy it for the image, they buy it just to...be able to say they own it i guess? i actually don't really understand the concept of NFTs very well. but the only function of an NFT is to resell it. buying a design is not the same because you can USE a design. an artist MADE that design, too, it wasn't randomly generated. someone put hours into that design and someone else bought it from them to 1. support their work and 2. own that character and be able to use it how they want to. if you're talking about MYOs (having to pay to make a design) i agree that those are kind of silly. you pay someone else to make a design on your own. but people pay for MYOs to have that design be added to a masterlist. i personally have never bought an MYO because i don't think it's worth it to pay just to be added to a list, but this does matter to some people, and they can spend their money how they want to. most closed species owners really don't care if you make knockoff designs, so long as you aren't copying ones that already exist more restrictive closed species owners (who make you pay for MYOs, keep careful track of existing characters on a masterlist, etc) usually do so for the lore and events, not the concept of the species itself. think about it like a group story. characters on the masterlist are typically incorporated into some sort of lore, and there are species-only events and such. that's usually why they want the designs to be made in a very specific way the reason i said i have mixed opinions and didn't do a direct statement was because not all closed species are the same. lthe species i brought up in the video doesn't make people pay for myos and doesn't care about people getting inspired from the concept or making similar things, for example. they also don't keep a masterlist. if you want to participate in that community then you very well can do so, but if you want to do your own thing and make your own shark/dog design without being affiliated to that, you're perfectly able to do that as well. if i made a broad statement like "i'm for closed species" or "i'm against closed species" people typically take that as "i'm for all closed species" or "i'm against all closed species" which isn't something i align with. what is extremely frustrating for me is when i post an opinion and people bring up points that i already mentioned and addressed in the video, usually because they commented based upon the title and not what i actually said (i am not referencing you with this, i appreciate your comment and you asking about this, i'm just saying this is what usually happens when i put something like that in a title)
Bro closed species arent as serious business or fuckin literal nfts wtf... calm down this isnt mind breaking why ppl hate nuetral opinions.. closed speicies should not be compared to literal nfts calm the fuck down.. istg internet ppl these days
Simple, you just do. I'm also neutral on it, I'm even creating mine. I think closed species make sense if the design is actually original and recognizable like chimereons or protogens. But if its simple like food cats or literally peiple making light fury designs and making it closed, then I disagree. I am making my species semi closed, so peiple can make their own with common traits, but if they want to add more accessories or traits then they can engage in events where they can get in world money and items to get even rare items, or pay real money if they want to. I hope to try to make it possible for everyone to have some level of experience, but I also need to make my bread so of course there would be limits to how much you have access to without either being involved or paying. There is nothing wrong with the concept until someone just drives the whole thing with money, or are toxic with others. Closed species are not like nuts that literally do harm whole as countries
@@table2.0 and can you read? I said it's semi closed/open, just that one, I have many others that are open. I am neutral because I understand how uncreative some species are in term of design and concept, and I know many are purely driven by money and get toxic quick. But I still think it can exist and people can still make bread from their creations as long as it's managed properly and respectfully. I'm neutral because I see it's positive and negatives, I see how it can be very cool and amazing and I also understand how it can go south, doesn't mean I can't try to make one.
Okay... let's see if I understood: Close species are more a roleplay/comunity exclusive thing than just creating a random vulgar animal idea and claiming it yours and going to hunt another people who has a similar desing (just like some Ocs owners lol)... Counting that I'm not an Indie character roleplayer, just a comic creator... I think I'm safe 😇
3:33 uhm, girly the problem with this argument is not anyone can make a convention and it takes slot of money and planning and sheer effort. If anyone could make a convention just like anyone can make a species then what's stopping u from copying what u like? NOTHING
I usually don’t care about closed species but i made a dog with wings. Jusy a dog with wings (cuz I like dogs and wings are cool) and posted it on an art server on discord and someone said it’s similar to a closed species. Bro. It’s just a dog with wings. Sorry I like wings?
Don't like closed species in general. ideas for a species should be credited, yes, but should be drawn again and again for free. Say, a person makes a completely original species. puts it behind a paywall. pay to have a specific design of this critter's specie, or pay to make your own creature design of this specie. It can't have random traits, big head wings or 4 eyes! Nono, it needs to be this way. Unless you want to pay even more. That is a horrible way of functioning, despite not every closed species working like this of course, and majority of people seemingly being able to afford a creature of it's specie. However, it does feel like not letting people be original or creative as much as they please. If you like a species, no matter what's it's popularity or closed or whatever, you should be allowed to make some for free and interact freely with the community who own the same species. Without being attacked for not paying 30 dollars for an image that's not even really custom. You don't know how to design? Understandable. So, take inspiration off of pallete colors. Or even look up video teachings of professional designers who work jobs in the industry. It's all *free* and you can be creative as much as you want. No one stops you if your wallets fat to buy a hell ton of random designs either.
i understand where you're coming from, however this logic could be used to say that NOTHING should be sold. What about museums that charge you for entry? Shouldn't everyone be able to enjoy history? Can't you learn history for free from professional teachers online? Yeah, but if you want to see THAT museum, and if you want to go to THAT museum, they charge you, and that's their choice to do so. It costs money to maintain their facilities and if they didn't charge people, there'd be way too many people in the building at once for them to control. It's a similar thing for a lot of closed species. And what about freelance art? Shouldn't everyone be able to enjoy art? Why should they pay for it? "Don't know how to draw? Then look up videos online from professionals and learn, it's all free and that way you don't have to pay". See how that sounds? Yeah, you don't have to pay for art, and if you really don't want to then you can learn it yourself. But art is a luxury, and if a freelance artist gave everyone free art then they'd have no money. If a closed species owner is dedicating hours of every day to their project and people on the internet love it so much they want to make their own, then they kind of have to charge for it, because they have bills to pay and in the time they could of been working on something else, they spent creating something that you and other people loved. i think its important to see it from a different perspective than "they are intentionally gatekeeping and they are evil for it" because if you put yourself in their shoes it makes a lot more sense why they charge money for access to the species
@@Qwizz I don't think the people who make their closed species, well, closed, are evil. But just like with the museum part you mentioned. Instead of making people pay the entrance such big money. Maybe sell souvenirs or even some form of food (which ive actually seen, along with entrances being free or extremely cheap). For the closed species, instead of having people pay to be able to own some creatures, why not draw their characters for money instead? Surely people would love to see their little creature drawn by the person who invented their specie. And of course, for money. Now why would this go? It's optional, and the person who's giving the money can ask for specific things *they* want to be drawn. As long as you allow things, of course. It's custom, it's optional, and it already works. This could also help the artist practice new poses, unique designs, etcetera. Thing is, don't put everything behind a paywall, i'm sure there's plenty of ways to attract people to buy your stuff without limiting them from seeing the museum/designing their creature. For both ways, it is the people who have money who would pay for these, which is fine! Good for you and your job that pays you so well. Some people, i suppose, have to rely on wikipedia, books, and offbrand art of some closed specie however. Again, there is obviously a mass group of people who can easily afford something of 50 dollars or even more. But some have to put this towards real life things. And so, why go broke when you can have historical information for free (or in schools...) or doodle something you like you've seen online. Nobody can really stop you to be honest, unless you get harassed for the drawing part. In short; There's more ways to charge people, where the people can still have access to the thing they like. And even if you don't do it like that, people can still get these things for free.
@@wingedcoco charging to make a character is a lot more reliable to them than making additional fees. if only 1 in 5 people are supporting them financially (which is a generous assumption bc usually that number would be even less) they're making next to nothing for how hard it is to manage their species. their species would grow in members a heck of a lot faster, itd be hard to moderate so they may have to resort to having to hire moderators, and if they're not able to regularly make money, then theyre eventually just not generating a profit. the amount of people who will enjoy the content and who will financially support it is always VERY different. i have over 2k subscribers, but have i been commissioned by over 2k people? no. i haven't been commissioned by even half that amount. itd be generous to even say 500. its easy to say that they should make the species more easily accessible without paying, but its not as easy to actually do so in practice. not everything is free, not everything is cheap. a character is a WANT, not a NEED. a species is a for-fun thing, its a luxury, its not a staple to life.
@@wingedcoco that logic makes no sense genuinely. toys are a want so you can just go to a walmart and take them off the shelves and not pay for it. pets are a want so you can just walk into a petco and bag a bunch of guinea pigs and leave. jewlery is a want so you can just go to a jeweler and put diamond earrings on and walk out with them without paying for it. just because its not a handheld product doesn't mean its not a product at all, and intentionally stealing from them because it's easier to do than something in person and because you're salty something costs money isnt right. i feel like people hate closed species owners no matter WHAT they do. if they don't have the money to hire mods because they dont charge people, their species gets a bad reputation and people blame them for what the members do. if they charge, people hate them for the sole reason that they did so. it seems like people dont even know what they want out of them.
I usually dont post my opinions on stuff like this, but figured id step in to defend closed species, because in my opinion they are a form of intellectual propertie, like an adopt. Say for example you wanted to make a cat oc with a name suffix that was a part of riverclan and interacted with firestar. Yeah, its just a cat, but since you are using the lore and titles from an existing media, its a *warrior cat*. The idea of paying for the right to make a charachter is almost identical to adopts in my opinion with more creative freedom. If you buy a closed species slot, you know wha5 youre getting intk and theres no room to complain about it if you knew full well what you were paying for. And for those outside of the community just hating to hate, i encourage you to take a step back and think "how dose this affect me? Are closed species hurting me or infringing on my rights?" Because the answer is most likely no. And if the answer is yes, id love to hear how/ why in the replies. (Sorry for all the typos and spelling mistakes, im writing this on my tablet which dosnt have autocorrect for some reason)
I heavily disagre with this video. The most closed spiecies are in no way very original ideas. Anyone can and probably will come up with it or something very similar withiut ever needing to see them. The idea of crossing animals is not original and the idea of naming the combinations by combining the names is not original. Shupies as a name is not original and anyone magic a shark×dog fusion can easily come to the same name. Closed spiecies are just a kids club made to inflate the price. Nothing more.
I just think the whole idea is stupid, you can’t stop people and I think it’s dumb to want to. Not only that it just creates artificial scarcity and gatekeeps people who are unwilling to fork out.
I don’t really think you can be neutral about it when you actively engage in and have paid to be in a closed species community… People can buy commissions from an artist and have it be officially from them, even have proof it’s their character on a registry. Hell, even adoptables with hand drawn art are fine to me. But an art community you have to pay to be part of when there are plenty of communities who do the same thing but for free with basically no rules to restrict creativity? What’s the point? The only point is cashing in on hype, artificial scarcity of “official” design ownership and making an over inflated designer brand instead of just making money from commissions or selling pre-made-characters + the artwork (thus signing over the rights to that art to the owner and giving control of said art/character to them such as what they want to permit others to do with it) If there was a better way to stop people from reposting or using art/designs without permission in their own works online, then that would be ideal. But that doesn’t exist, so honest commissions and open species are the only thing that make sense right now
When people buy open species characters, it’s not like theyre actually buying the right to draw X. Anybody can draw anything they want and nobody can-or should-stop you. What people are selling are *tickets.* tickets to this event, this community, this server, this raffle, ticket to hang out with me, whatever. If you think that someone is selling tickets too expensive, then i have two responses: 1. Nobody asked you. 2. But yeah, i probably agree with you that it’s too expensive for what it is. But for those who do wanna pay for it, why should our opinion stop them from supporting their favorite artist how they want?
