I think some people are missing the point I'm trying to make with this video. I disagree with the toxicity on both sides, at the end of the day Doctor Who should be judged on personal enjoyment, if you liked or disliked the 60th then that is absolutely fine as that is your opinion. I remember being ripped to shreds by people back in 2018 as I weren't a fan of series 11 😅. I suppose at the end of the day we're all entitled to our opinions, this video is simply my own and I'm not attempting to anger or change others opinions. I suppose my concern is the level of toxicity which seems to be within the online Doctor Who fandom now, I've had some great conversations with people I work with who didn't like the 60th anniversary and it was fun to compare views without being called a 'soy boy' or a 'liberal elitist' 😅 I do want to make it clear though that I never think of myself or my views above anyone, at the end of the day I'm just one person and that's all I'm ever going to be 😀 On a side note I've seen a comment suggesting that I'm jealous of channels like Clownfish TV as they are successful, I literally make videos for fun so I never intend to match those kind of numbers 😅
Look mate, I know unsolicited advice is annoying but for some reason the algorithm sent me here, so I'll give you my hopefully non toxic opinion. The reason why some bigger channels express opinions in a strong and colourful way, is that they're hoping to entertain people. Bowlestrek isn't angry, he's playing a lively role, that's all. Entertainment value comes from people finding their takes to be humorous or challenging in an interesting way. For the most part, whinging, and mealy mouthed bitching is irritating NOT entertaining. People will always have disagreements and their own opinions, moreover when you say "why can't people be honest" don't you get it? People ARE being honest - many people truly despise the latest dr Who and they're being upfront with their opinions. Does it matter to you? Why should you worry? If you like it, good for you, you watch it. There's plenty of movies I've liked even though most people hated them. Now personally I totally disagree with you and think that Davies's pro trans stuff was about as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face - but that's my opinion. It's no more or less valid than yours. So don't get upset when people are passionate about tv and movies they love. You can ignore them, surely.
Clownfish is pretty appalling. Critical Drinker, Abroad in Japan, Tokyo Lens, Trek Trendy, Simon Wilson, Lisa and Josh are the gold standard. Quality podcasts, documentaries and you can enjoy many an evening with them. Don’t take it too hard that because recent episodes and series of Doctor Who have been so poor since Capaldi left that a tiny minority will simply treat you as the enemy. I appreciate your intent. I don’t agree with all your conclusions but I’m sorry a few people are being so aggressive. But yes another poster had it right. The lack of subtlety to RTD’s scripts is worrying. It’s agenda all the way and it’s awful.
"I disagree with the toxicity on both sides." Nice try. Won't fall for it. You only ever attack people who dislike the current episodes, you hate us, as if we were Na*is. We're not. We're nothing like Na*is. We're criticizing shitty writing, shitty characters, shitty plots, shitty politics surrounding the writing, horrible executive decisions etc. Never ever have you and people like you managed to talk to any one of us. Either in the comments section with people like me, or on podcasts and videos and streams like EFAP. Nobody can take this comment of yours seriously without being terribly naive. You know what would make me trust you? Trust that you do, in fact, dislike toxicity on both sides? Contact Mauler. Yes, you read that correctly. Contact Mauler. Come on EFAP (they are bound to make a Doctor Who episode). And talk. Not insult, not attack, not call everyone present Na*is like you're some re-incarnation of Hasan Piker. Talk. Like a civilized person. The problem? You can't. Not because they would refuse you, no. Because you would never even try.
You disagree with the toxicity on both sides and only present one side being toxic? Absolutely disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. You are toxic.
To be fair, it's mostly the show runners as well as the BBC instigating this dissension amongst the fans by encouraging the idiotic belief that anybody who doesn't like the new stuff, is sexist or racist or homophobic. People get unjustly vilified for having an opinion.
Most people will just say this sucks shrug their shoulders and stop watching. They don't care what we think, and actively enjoy enraging us, because they know they will forever get public money.
crazy is in eye of the beholder. if you can't handle other people's opinions, then take a break from the internet. but no, it's everyone else's fault because they need to "stop shouting at each other", i guess... that line of thinking leads nowhere good.
and thats the point, his line "My legions are coming" is literally people who want him to come back. His toxic stans. The whole episode was an allegory of toxic stans and cancel culture, and why its a good thing to cancel the right.
First off, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. Just some points I had though: 6:15 Though I can agree RTD handled it better than Chibnall would have, I would in no way say it's subtle. If it were subtle, I would expect it to be mention maybe twice at most, or just small hints now and then. What we got was: a scene moralizing to the audience about pronouns, a scene in which the character is "deadnamed" and Donna makes a big deal about it, a scene in which Sylvia aires her confusion to Donna about the matter, the solution to the episode's problem is that Rose is "non-binary" , a snide remark that "male-presenting" people can't let things go, and likely some other parts that I'm missing out. The whole episode, as described by the production team, was supposed to be a "trans allegory". If that's handling the topic in a subtle manner, I think we've hit an irreconcilable difference. Now as for the rest of the episode, it was... fine. Nothing special about it other than bringing a comic character to the screen. Other than the social commentary, the episode wasn't really pushing any narrative bounds. It was played pretty safe. The streets being repaired at the end made no sense, nor did the fact only the streets seemed to be affected in the first place. If the engine was supposed to use the landmass as fuel or whatever, surely the houses would be damaged... 8:30 Doctor Who has indeed always been somewhat progressive. I don't think I'd classify "Daleks show mid-century Germans are bad" as a progressive trait though... The Daleks are for sure a mid-century Germans allegory, but is being against them progressive? I think everyone can agree that the mid-century Germans were awful (apart from maybe a few people on the fringe of society). Having gay characters is definitely "progressive" for the time. Whether or not people complain is a different matter. I just saw the Captain Jack stuff as him being eccentric - it never really bothered me. What does bother me is when you have progressive character traits introduced that the episode pauses for to bring attention to them. Take Bill in Moffat's era - she'd just come out now and then and tell the audience she's a lesbian. Compare that with Jack's character which is obvious to anyone watching, but he doesn't repeatedly tell the audience in words that he's bisexual. The doctor puts it in a subtle way by telling Rose "in the future, the human race 'dances' with anyone and anything." It's clever writing on behalf of Moffat/RTD for that episode as it ties back to previous events. No need for explicit statements. 14:45 "If you're not enjoying the show anymore, why are you still watching it". Excellent question that I ask myself every time I tune in. I think it's something to do with the show's legacy. I've watched every episode including the classic show at one point or another - it's so engrained into British culture that it almost feels wrong to just give up on it. The only exception I had with this is with Chibnall's era after The Timeless Children. That plot point fundamentally broke the show to the point I didn't want to continue. However, I decided to give the new RTD era a try and even go back and watch the rest of the Chibnall era. At the end of the day, I really want to like the show, but it's when they step out of the story to moralize to the audience that I start disliking it.
We're navigating that point where there's that split in context - 'toxic fans of Doctor Who' will view their opposites as 'fans of toxic Doctor Who'. And vice versa. The difference is now that the protestations of SOME of the detractors aren't being backed up with fair discussion or context.
I'm one of those who has been a Doctor Who fan since it began in 1963 and I agree with you 100% mate. But, this is not just a problem with Doctor Who fans. You get it in politics, among football fans, and pretty much anything else where there can be differences of opinion. Some people just dig their heels in and become so intransigent it's just not worth discussing anything with them. Personally I blame the anonymity of social media. People think they can be as rude or obnoxious as they like with no come back.
I've been watching Doctor Who since 'The Green Death' in 1973. Today, I don't feel that I can share my opinions - good OR bad - online anywhere, otherwise I'm going to get attacked by both sides. I wasn't a fan of the 6th Doctor's era, but as there was no Facebook/Instagram/Twitter, I didn't get piled on about it. People just took it as an opinion. Today, if I say I didn't like Jodie or Ncuti's episodes, I'm labelled as a toxic, white bigot, racist,homophobe. (I've got mixed race kids, a trans kid and a long history of being active in fighting racism, but I'm still tarred with that brush.) Likewise if I say I enjoyed another episode, the click-driven negative fans will attack me for drinking the kool-aid, buying into the far left ideology. You just can't win, no matter how you phrase it, so I just remove myself from the entire situation.
Thanks for this. I'm in the US, and it seems too many people today can't or won't discuss anything, but just slap on a label and stomp away. Again, thanks for calling people on it. Communication and courtesy can save the world, if we let them.
Gatekeeping in general is a problem, I'm someone who liked Jodie's era and there were people saying to me that I'm not a TRUE fan because I liked her era and her Doctor even though liking something DOES make you a fan, if you like any of Doctor Who you *are* a fan. And I like all of Doctor Who, every era! Though can I ask you mention liking Bowlestrek's videos back in 2018, might I ask why? Was the sexism that he constantly directed at Jodie Whittaker not apparent to you because he was so sexist towards her and Bowlestrek in general is one of the most MASK OFF bigots on this platform, and not just sexism but racism, transphobia, ableism etc he's outright awful. This is a genuine question, I'm not taking it out on you or anything, I know that youtubers like that can cloud someone's views. So I am genuinely wondering!
An interesting thing I noticed. There are a lot of reviews out there that present themselves in a very neutral way. Simple screenshots for the thumbnail, maybe a smiling presentator, and a title like "Christmas Special, Church on Ruby Road, review, reaction". While these reviews do point out things they didn't like in the show, the overall reaction is thoroughly positive. They liked it; they had fun watching it. And then there is the "reviews" with titles like "wokeness killed Doctor Who", "Doctor Who is dead!", "Fans are running away from woke Disney trash!", complete with specifically created thumbnails showing "R.I.P." and tombstones or whatever bad image they can find. It's almost as if hatred has to advertise itself to find an audience.
oh yeah, they have to use the most provocative titles and thumbnails imaginable because that's what will get people to click on them. Sadly negativity and bigotry gets big views and money, it's a shame really.
And you never ever watched the ones with the "bad" thumbnails, am I right? Go watch them. Engage with their actual words, not their clickbait thumbnails. Have you learned nothing about how thumbnails work?
@@quantumvideoscz2052 I'm not opposed to criticism. I myself have points in the show, the episode, that I'm not totally happy with. But why on earth should I give traffic to someone who _uses_ clickbait to gain engagement? Why should I _expect_ reasonable words to engage with from someone who uses outrage bait as a facade? Yes. I know what "clickbait" is. That's the whole point. It is BAIT. Are you prey?
Is it bait? Yes. That's how RU-vid works if you want to be successful, I guess. I admit it'S annoying and i would prefer they didn't do that, but I won't ever judge someone's argument based on their thumbnail. If you'd like to listen to a podcast where they absolutely do criticize nearly everything, yet they do it very fairly and with zero bigotry AND zero clickbait thumbnails, I suggest the EFAP podcast (EFAP means Every Frame A Pause). @@Groffili
I'm kinda sick of people calling out fans for feeling disappointed with new takes on old material. No-one would have an issue if they just treated it with more respect. Instead they deliberately do this stuff to rile fans up, and then call fans "toxic" for not responding to it well. Everyone is allowed to like or dislike certain material. It's tired at this point and fans are fed up with it.
"No-one would have an issue" yes they would, that is a flat out lie. People were upset just because the Doctor regenerated into a woman. And Doctor Who is treated with respect, Doctor Who does what it has always done, it is a very political show that is rarely subtle at all!
@@friendlyotaku9525 Ugh I'm so sick of that argument. Yes, there's people out there who complain about it being a woman. But most people could care less. It's the forced messaging and treatment of the character that annoys people. No-one cares if a woman leads Star Wars, or Indiana Jones, it's the lazy attempt of forcing in that character and having them be somewhat obnoxious and disrespectful to the actual legacy characters and the already established legacy of said franchise. It's old. It's tired. It's predictable, and fans are over it. It's nothing to do with women, but you've been made to believe that that is the underlying issue because modern media loves to echo the same stupid sentiment that fans are sexist. Nah, no thanks. You can take that argument elsewhere because that's just not the case. But y'all simply don't see it and don't care to actually understand the real issue fans have.
@@hashtagfilm However the 13th Doctor is not disrespectful to legacy characters at all nor the legacy. She was subject to a lot of sexism. And sexism is absolutely a massive issue, these big youtube channels thrive on their sexism and bigotry in general, that's why they get so much in the way of views and money.
I shouldn't need to point this out, but oh well. Henry Cavill was right, fans can have whatever opinion they want, and the "arrogance" you claim is so bad is usually just a passion for the material to be better. That said, the 60th specials WERE terrible, and people like Critical Drinker and Mauler have pointed out huge issues with character and world building that are absolutely objective criticism
As I gazed up to observe the majesty of the night sky, a purple vault fretted with a million points of light, as the stars glistened like diamonds cast amidst black velvet, I watched in awe as the crescent moon ascended the horizon like an amber chariot across the zenith of the heavens toward the empty void of infinite space wherein the tethered belts of Jupiter, Mars and Saturn, they are forever festooned in their ultimate majesty. As I gazed up to observe this majestic sight, I thought you know I really must put a roof on this lavatory. Les Dawson.
What Doctor Who fans value is The Lore mate. Problem is the show's creators no longer do. If you can't see the difference between the 50th and 60th anniversary specials, it might be time to hand in your critics badge.
i think when it comes down to "wokeness" doctor who just isn't subtle with it anymore. Like you said the Dalek and the Ood are a symbolism for politics. But that's what they are a symbolism. I feel like Doctor Who isn't being subtle anymore. Like Bannakaffalatta was a subtle way for being gay/transgender. and it worked really well. But stopping the flow of story telling to say a message is just harming the plot and pacing for no reason...
Shouldn't we have moved beyond having to use metaphors to show LGBTQIA+ people though? Instead of having aliens stand in for real groups we should have actual gay and trans people in the show. Martha in series 3 experiences racism. Imagine if we couldn't show that real experience people of color go through, and instead had to have an alien who is treated unfairly. Imagine if straight people could only be shown on TV through a metaphor of aliens and monsters that are presented as weird and strange.
@@brewster_4 tbh I agree, the racism with Martha makes sense for the time piece it was set in and all of that stuff. But correcting The Doctor (a man who's hundreds of thousands years olds, who has travelled across planets and met thousands of species of aliens) on an ALIENS pronouns is just plain ridiculous. You just know in the writers studio they didn't put that scene in because it was for the plot. The writers put it in to add "wokeness" and to push forward an agenda instead of making a competent story. They're sacrificing a story to push forward a political agenda which I can never support in a show about time travel and aliens. (FYI I'm not right wing or anything rubbish like that. All I want is good stories in media)
Metaphors are one thing. Insincere, lazy, many times ironically trans and homophobic writing that ends up portraying the LGBTQ+ characters as stereotypes without being aware of it, that's the problem. The writing that lacks any subtlety or nuance (those are NOT a form of metafor, in case you didn't know), that's the problem. @@brewster_4
Except of course for that one "pro Vietnam war" storyline, which must always be described as "drivel" by people when discussing the second Doctor's run. Though they've likely never even seen it. Still, not the first time. There was this comic I was getting back in the day when every one of the then Doctors were scooped up out of time for... something I don't even remember, that's how good it was. The editiorial in one issue talked about an old issue of TV Comic, where the Doctor apparently built a laser gun and used it to shoot a giant spider saying "Die, hideous creature! Die!". Apparently this was an "infamous scene". Yeah nah it was in an obscure early 1960's British comic. Even people that care about comics don't care about British comics, that editorial smacked of an attempt to MAKE this obscure thing "infamous", simply so the writer could show off how much better they were. Shame the issue that editorial was in featured the Doctor releasing a bunch of pirates to help him escape a prison ship (hey, as long as it's only them shanking the wardens, eh?).
@@thetalonsofwaynechiang See that doesn't personally clear up my confusion. Like don't get me wrong you're allowed to dislike a show because it doesn't have subtle writing or because it disagrees with you politically I'm just confused about when exactly that changed. I've only been seen new Who so the old series might be different, I wouldn't know about that, but I would not have ever described New Who's writing as particularly subtle or not-progressive. For example, the Doctor and Captain Jack Harkness kissed in the first season, Jack was an openly pansexual character who appeared to be attracted to basically everyone of every species he met lol. Where was the subtlety? I mean New Who has explicitly supported the idea of a gender spectrum at least as early as Season 4 when a steward addressed a crowd of people as "ladies, gentleman, and variations thereupon." In Ten's era! If anything I have personally liked Doctor Who /because/ I don't find it at all subtle, I personally find it's repetitive, explicit, loud, and at times even obnoxious camp and hopefulness a refreshing change from a television environment otherwise (in my opinion) overly saturated with dark and gritty, cynical storytelling.
“It was so much more subtly done in the classic era.” You clearly don’t know history, and that political climates back then were different than they are now.
Hating the showrunner of Doctor Who has been a tradition since the early 80's as far as I can recall, people really hated JNT and he was in many ways one of the best of them.
Why can't their be a good honest debate without name calling? Because anyone who does not like the direction of the show(s) is called racist, sexist, homophones. They are insulted by the actors, show runners, and Directors. They are told 'If you don't like it don't watch/buy it' so they don't, then when the ratings/box-office numbers are released, they are then attacked again for not watching it because they are phobes and ists.
It's simple social engineering. Obey us or we will turn the world against you! Don't forget, those on the opposite side are so entitled and made to believe they are the most special and important people in the world. They're programmed to believe that anyone who disagrees with their point of view are evil and not human at all. They tear communities apart by pitting neighbours against each other. Does it remind you of anyone? That's how the communists and fascists of yesteryear took control. The UK didn't fall into that trap because we were all united together. Now it is us and Europe who are crumbling.
6:47 for me the only thing that I had a hard time getting my head around was the ending where because if if you were still presenting as a woman, you would still understand something that a male presenting timelord would never understand. And the reason why that confuses me is because we’re talking about the meta crisis where are the doctor the 10th doctor specifically which David Tennant . Has played before. Put his regeneration energy into his hand, so why would the doctor especially this one not know how to let it go and then, going further into the other specials, they could’ve easily said that he had been working himself too hard and you never really stopped to think doctor to let all this go
@@purefoldnz3070 I want to just have the doctor simply say that well you do have a point although respectfully, I did put my regeneration into my hand, causing the mata crisis and to your other point timelords have this thing where, even though that we regenerate, we still have all the memories of our past selves and I was a brilliant woman just a few days ago at this point And finally everyone of you are human beings even though you look different, maybe even have different body parts you still have emotions and intelligence Which is not exclusive to one particular, gender or another you’re all wonderful and unique in your own special way don’t let anyone even me tell you otherwise because you’re all fantastic
@@purefoldnz3070 to be honest, I believe that the doctor, depending on which incarnation they are, they can be all over the map when it comes to gender identity sexuality mental health, Neurodiversity and everything else
@@TakeAchance365 I disagree, the doctor is neither human or Gallifreyan and is not bound to our constraints of sexuality as the 4th doctor clearly demonstrated.
Sorry, but RTD started this when he used the disability slur "Ming mongs" in his book to criticise fans who had concerns. Now he just trolls them on Twitter. This is unprofessional.
No, the fans started this when they openly harassed his script editor Helen Raynor in sexist ways after she wrote a two-parter and caused her to have an emotional breakdown. The fans deserve everything they get, they ARE mingers.
@@cheapfinish6224 she only came on for S2. Fans were complaining at season 1 for bad writing, toilet humour, and the sexualisation of the main character. If RTD made his main actor quit, shouldn't that be an indicator who thr bigger twat is
The new series is inclusive! Which is strange that you'd find comments about 14 not understanding things because he's a man (used to be a woman) - coming from character that is a woman (used to be a man). Can you do the latter without the former? Is it possible to not fuck it up? That's the biggest gripe to me. They come in swinging with an episode about a trans person. Infact, their identity saves the day. There are explorations of dead naming and the negative portrayal of the bullies yet the positive portrayal from the gran-mother. Then you get 14 being slagged off for HIS gender expression. I found that to be enough to show me what RTD was doing... and the dominoes fell. Why would you not show positivity to the Doctor too, especially being that men make up the majority of fans? It could only be purposeful.
He dealt with it in a subtle way?! Seriously? The problem that many had with the whole Rose Noble thing is that, in this effort to be as overt as possible, (And RTD admitted as much) because he believes that children can't understand nuance and subtlety, RTD shoehorned it in far more for agenda than story. And the problem with that sort of approach is that it comes across as preaching or lecturing the audience. On top of that, it turns Rose into a "one-trick-pony", essentially. Basically, she's a trans character who is trans and her trans-ness is all that matters about her and is the only important thing about her, because trans messaging is more important than well-rounded character development. It's just [insert "trans avatar for trans community to deliver trans message of the day" here]. That's the problem with the ridiculous approach that so many writers are taking these days. It was the same problem with Chibnall. Message over story. It's a sign of bad writing, and given that most Dr. Who fans know that RTD is a much better writer than that, it comes as that much more of a slap in the face, because it means that it was intentional. In "The Star Beast", Rose was little more than a walking Macguffin. And the next problem is that RTD decided to intentionally use the 60th anniversary, an event that fans have been waiting for ever since the 50th anniversary special ended, as a vehicle to deliver a blunt social message instead of celebrate 60 years of Doctor Who. So, yeah. People are going to be pissed off. As far as the Issac Newton scene, it was clear that that scene was an intentional act. It was blatant fan-baiting. He was intentionally trolling the audience. He put it in there because he knew damn well that it would cause controversy, so of course it would become a major focus. He wanted to piss people off and he got exactly what he wanted. On a broader scale, one of the reasons that some longtime fans of not just Dr Who, but many other well-established properties have grown more confrontational is precisely because we've reached a point where anything short of unconditional praise is labelled as "toxic fandom". If you keep calling everyone who criticizes something that they're passionate about toxic, sooner or later, they're going to become toxic. You would start to become toxic too, if you were repeatedly told that any criticism makes you an -ist or a -phobe, and that even legitimate criticism is nothing more than "coded language" or a "dog whistle", because what you really mean is that you're an -ist or a -phobe. Dr. Who has always been progressive, as you said, but there's a difference between being progressive and so-called "woke". Dr Who has used allegory, nuance and subtlety to give the audience something to think about. That's being progressive. Telling people what to think or how to think is what journeys into the so-called "woke" arena. It's insulting to the audience. The primary purpose of entertainment is to entertain. If your goal is to lecture your audience or preach to them, that's what documentaries are for. But hijacking established entertainment just to use it as a convenient vehicle to deliver some social or political messaging is going to invite criticism and conflict. And if the response by the makers of that property is to criticize or attack the audience, it's a recipe for failure in the long-run, because you're essentially setting the bridge on which you're currently standing on fire in the hopes that a smaller group may build a new one in time to keep you from crashing and burning.
I know writers who use subtext and they're all cowards. If the only correct way to show someone's lived experiences is to hide it behind euphemism and allegory then I want to be wrong. Simply showing the growing pains, showing how trans people actually live, is not making a character only about one thing even if that's the focus in the moment. It's like if I watched a straight romance movie and said; these characters were made to push a hetero agenda and that's all they exist for. Obviously the film is more than that, saying more than that. The characters have relationships with each other and express interest in things around them. And like those characters there is more to rose than just being trans, she has interests and skills showcased outside of that. But just like the romance movie the intent of the story is to address a real type of life. So if that's the point, a character like rose is perfect.
@@Raarzard First of all, I said subtlety and nuance, not subtext and euphemism. There's a difference. Second, Dr. Who is a science fiction show about The Doctor, not a romance or "slice of life" show about Rose. Real life doesn't include furry aliens and ancient time-traveling beings with dimensionally transcendental ships shaped like blue boxes. So your argument about it being a story intended to address a real type of life is weak, because nothing else in the story does that, and it only reinforces the point that Rose was there just to deliver a message. But let's take a look at Rose's whole character arc in the episode: 1. Introduction 2. Dead-naming as bullying (trans issue) 3. Overprotective mother and still-confused-but-trying grandmother discuss Rose being trans (trans issue) 4. Rose meets Meep, Meep claims that people hate it because it's different. Rose relates (because she's trans) 5. The Doctor is introduced and the billion+ year old alien who has literally been both 100% male and 100% female, multiple times (because of the Timeless Child arc) and has been to more planets and seen more aliens and other beings than any living individual in the universe needs to be lectured about "assuming pronouns" by someone who has only been alive for a few microseconds in comparison (hamfisted attempt to push trans issue in regard to personal pronouns). 6. Rose remains a background character for much of the episode after that, as the episode applies more focus on The Doctor and Donna. 7. Doctor unlocks Donna's memories and reactivates the meta-crisis, bringing back "Doctor Donna". "Doctor Donna" and The Doctor are saved because the meta-crisis passed on to Rose who apparently identifies as non-binary, for some reason, at that point (gender identity/trans issue) 8. It is revealed that Rose has spent her whole life essentially under the influence of the meta-crisis, making her entire identity not even her own. (always felt that she was from another planet, it shaped her personality and even led to her choosing the name "Rose". That made her a Macguffin, whose sole purpose was to serve as the method to resolve the meta-crisis issue. 9. The meta-crisis is averted in a ridiculous and anti-climatic way, but not before Rose makes the sexist "Male-presenting" comment to The Doctor ("Male-presenting" is a trans term) So, let's sum up, shall we? Intro, trans, trans, trans, trans, background, trans, Macguffin, trans. Rose had no personality of her own. She was one-dimensional, when all is said and done. She was little more than an avatar to deliver trans messages throughout the episode and very little would have changed in the primary arc of story had Rose not been trans, and then she was a Macguffin. A Macguffin is defined as: "An object, event, or character in a film or story that serves to set and keep the plot in motion despite usually lacking intrinsic importance." Rose was a message delivery system, with a personality that was entirely shaped by the meta-crisis meaning that she was essentially passive in the creation of her personality. It happened TO her instead of her being the one in control, and then, to resolve the meta-crisis, she served the purpose of a Macguffin by taking part of it from Donna so she didn't die and by just casually letting it all go away to eliminate the meta-crisis as a continuing plot point. With the way the story was set up, in regard to the meta-crisis, Donna having a child is all that mattered in regard to spreading the meta-crisis out as a plot point. The trans part bared no relevance to the resolution.
You miss the forest for the trees. Split hairs to completely bypass my point entirely. No reason in discussing this if you don't want to hear what others are trying to say.
@@Raarzard The exact same thing could be said about you. And I didn't split hairs. I rather thoroughly presented my argument. You're entirely free to disagree.
All you did was point out that there were trans issues presented and all that did was prove my point. If you go back and read what I said you will see I was talking about the utility of story and how necessary It is to have those beats if the point is to talk about trans issues. My reason for bringing up a romance movie is to show that in order for a type of story to be told it necessarily needs to contain certain aspects. All the things you helpfully laid out for me. 😉 Furthermore Doctor Who has ALWAYS been about showcasing real lives and real issues. By saying that the show can't be about those things because it's scifi inherently reduces Doctor Who and scifi into a miniscule box that limits writers ability to tell authentic stories. The doctor being some trillion year old alien flying around in a blue box is incidental to the very human stories this show has been known to explore. Fiction can be men in tights shooting ray guns as much as it can be used to tell empathetic stories about ourselves while shooting ray guns.
THANK YOU, I agree with everything you are saying IDK why its going on but what I like to remember is that when talking about Doctor Who you MUST remember "Opinions are Subjective" it helps me calm down and ignore those other people
There is no debate worth having.. You like it, therefore you watch it, and continue to do so.. Whereas, the majority have thrown in the towel and gone on to watch something else. Where is your controversial argument now ?
To be honest, I stepped away from Doctor Who comunities online because I would rather just like what I like without people telling me I am wrong. I enjoyed the 60th Anniversary Specials, yes, I do have some issues but overall I liked them. I have no real interest in hearing the massive lists people have compiled which will tell me why they are definitively the worst episodes of all time. If you like them, great. If you don't, sucks to be you.
I think the funniest thing about the isaac newton thing is that the actor playing him is actually mixed race, so still a white guy in essence despite the complexion
"mixed race" is, by definition, not a "white guy". That's for one. And for two, what matters on screen is what you look like, not who your parents are. Because what you look like is the only thing a viewer can see in the episode/movie/whatever. His parents might very well make him mixed race, but nobody who doesn't spend time googling him will know just by looking at him. Historical chracaters should be represented as faithfully as possible with the only things changing about them being things necessary for the plot to happen. E.G. Winston Churchill was still a fat, older white guy with a huge cigar, still the PM etc. etc. The only thing different in this story were the Daleks and The Doctor and Amy visiting and the changes these fictional characters caused. Simple as that.
I have been watching Doctor Who since the late 1960s, early 1970s. I have loved it since the start. I enjoy the show for what it is. I enjoyed every season I have seen.
I've been a huge fan of Doctor Who since the late 80s and the fandom has always been fairly toxic. Being a fan of the McCoy era and not especially warming to the Hinchcliffe era always marked me as an outsider and whilst I loved the Eccleston era and liked a lot of the Tennant era, I didn't enjoy Smith's time on the show and whilst I liked Capaldi in the role his early stories were very mixed. The Whittaker era was the closest to what I feel Doctor Who should be since 2005 and had a lot in common with my two favourite eras - Hartnell and McCoy - but I discovered over the last 5 years that I couldn't express that opinion on social media without receiving a barrage of abuse telling me how I was wrong and stupid and didn't know what I was talking about. I've never understood the Doctor Who Fans' inability to accept change and differences of opinion. It seems very hypocritical for fans of a show which is all about those things. I found very little to enjoy about Matt Smith's time on the show (a very small handful of stories excluded) but would never be as vindictive and rude to a fan of the era as fans have been to me for loving the stories featuring Sylvester or Jodie. Compared to other fandoms I'm part of - Farscape, for example - Doctor Who fandom is often very toxic and intolerant, which is a terrible shame. Fortunately, not all fans of the show are like that and I'm lucky to be able to interact with some very open-minded and thoughtful people in various groups, and have learnt to avoid the loud, obnoxious ones who just want to shout you down.
Thank you for this. A bit late to this vid I have to apologise. But yeah my main take away is thanks for finally shutting down the viewing figures argument. It drives me insane when people compare parameters from different times not equivocating their views for both. But you're absolutley right. Unfortunately these people will never stop. HeelsVsBabyface is another one. The problem is the audience they develop. So the opinion is swayed. In doing so, no discussion can take place about episodes now because of the shut down response of 'oh its woke' Same thing happened to Marvel, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings and so on. But the difference to all of them which Who has always been since the revival and you mention this in your video. Its made by fans. The privelage that we have actual fans running the show rather than corporate showrunners who don't understand the source material at all and yet they still complain. This is unheard of in the media industry. But people will be people. But yeah I absolutley agree with you.
Your issue with Doctor Who fans is that they want an entertaining show..........not to be spoken down to by the shows ShowRuiner (yes I spelt that right) Russell T..... this is the BBC, we all have to pay for this.....entertain us all again, not choose a minority to aim it at......and when the fans dont like it they're insulted and called bigots...... looking at Russel T Davies latest episodes with his sly digs in the script at white, straight men, he's more of a bigot, his scripts are sexist and racist........My problem with Doctor Who is the people who defend it because it nicely fits into their own political brainwashing
So by that logic, aren't you hating it because it doesn't fit into your political brainwashing? I mean, you haven't actually made a criticism of the content of the episodes, you've just complained about the diversity. If you're one and only complaint is "there are black and trans people in it" then, yeah, that kind makes you a bigot. (Also, whats up with all the ellipsis in your comment?)
@@Joosh95 "entertain us all again, not choose a minority to aim it at" "looking at Russel T Davies latest episodes with his sly digs in the script at white, straight men" Who do you think they're talking about there? This is a video specifically about the people who were angry about the diversity in the show. if you weren't angry about that, the video wasn't talking about you. If you watched the video, and felt like the video was talking about you, the way this person did, then yes, the video was very much talking about you. If someone says "all the bigots in this room are bad", and someone else goes, "No we're not", then they've got nobody but themselves to blame.
@@MaxM210 none of that translates to him hating Rose being trans or the doctor being black, that's not what everyone is angry about because we know they exist and have a right to, it's him saying to entertain us all equally, not pander to a certain demographic, such as not everyone agrees with pronouns, changing historical figures for the sake of diversity, saying that non binary people are more and better than you, that white males are stupid and the worst, a lot of fans are being attacked and they're not aloud to get angry about it otherwise they get called toxic and a bigot!?!? And how everyone says to these people to just stop watching is a pathetic resolve. You're asking lifelong fans of Marvel, Star Wars, Disney (because the same is happening there) and now doctor who to just give up something they've loved since they were children. Asking them to sit back and watch they're favourite things being used to push an agenda rather than be used to tell entertaining, coherent, captivating stories that can be an escapism from our world and join people together rather than cause more divisions.
It's not about *only* appealing to a minority, It's about teaching a family audience how to be understanding of those people, something which Doctor Who has always done, because it is a show about being kind in the face of an unrelenting world. It baffles me that people will forget that when faced with issues they've already made up their minds on.
You make considered points which I respect. I agree that characterisation has improved over the Chibnall era in these Specials. RTD has confirmed his agenda across various sources and I think fans are entitled to push back. RTD and the angry fans are two sides of the same coin. RTD is deliberately antagonising people who don't agree with him. He has said as much. Any insightful person would expect the Star Beast to light up Twitter. JNT copped a backlash from fans when they thought the show was in trouble. Chibnall was one of those fans. Barry Letts and Philip Hinchliffe didn't cop this heat. Why? Because their eras just focused on delivering entertainment for everyone. Bowlestrek is entertaining in his own right. I like the wide views on RU-vid. I don't mind people blowing off steam. It isn't the real world. All of those personalities are characters. They can just as easily be ignored.
"Bowlestrek is entertaining in his own right" watching paint dry is more entertaining than any of bowlestrek's videos. And he is a flat out bigot, mask off, he hasn't even ATTEMPTED to hide it.
I think that's simply a bad faith argument that doesn't take into account the whole picture, making mountains out of molehills. I am aware of what RTD is trying to say, but that doesn't take away my enjoyment of the specials. Furthermore I don't think there's any use to blow off steam by ranting and raving. It's not a good use of stress.
IM SO GLAD YOU MADE THIS VIDEO! Doctor who to me, is a fun silly show. And I was getting tired of being reccomended the most rage-bait negative rant videos of people describing the show as ruined and bad because they didn't like the specials or arent excited for the new season. Its an amazing show for how many eras it has. I wasnt that much of a fan of the capaldi/ whittaker seasons but there are people who did like them. I've been a fan of the show since i was a child and i personally think its beautiful how expansive it can get. Theres something for everyone. It's also been so dissapointing to see the more misogynistic and homophobic crowd get so loud in recent years when i think it's always been a very inclusive and diverse show. I dont know why they're behaving as if it's a new concept. I'm personally excited for the new Doctor and think if those fans don't enjoy the show anymore, then they're not being forced to watch.
Yeah anyone who say "woke" as some form of derogatory should probably not be listened to. I like Issac Newton not being white, not because of the show it's self but because it was a subtle middle finger to those types of people and that signals a return to good writing. A lot of the progressive elements in the last season were basically just waving a rag at a bull, trying to get them worked up as companies have realised that's free advertising.
Would you think the same if a korean actor portayed MLK? How about a white woman portraying Harriet Tubman? I have apathy for the 'new' Who and just won't bother watching as I have a real life with real problems, sometimes just switching channels or turning something off is the way to go. I was never a huge fan but there can be no doubt that the quality of writing has dropped (Moffet was the beginning and Chibnall was awful)and the pushing of 'the message' is so obvious its like a hammer to head! I get the feeling you are happy that the writing is dividing people instead of uniting them, you do realise that you aren't the good person you seem to think you are, don't you?
@@craigs71 "the message" being what, that minorities exist and are people too? And yeah if the people being made to feel uncomfortable are those that think "wokeness" is what is wrong with society I'm very happy.
Your ideology is flawed as you seem to believe that people that don't agree with you hate others because of their skin colour or gender (of the two), take Star Trek: TNG for example, that show was progressive back in the 90's but it didn't beat you around the head to push it. The first episode of the 'new new' Who had obvious misandry but that is fine? Hate is hate no matter what, just because it ties in with your belief then its fine? You might want to look in a mirror.@@punksci6879
You mean the show gave the middle finger to those who value history and it's preservation. Really, you call that good writing? You see, I don't believe in lying to audiences to prop up and support my worldview in a petty attempt to rewrite the past because it wasn't diverse enough. I don't believe all disabled people are evil because Davros required a cool life support system to survive. Pissing off over half your audience surprisingly isn't a good marketing strategy, and I say half because Jodie Whittaker's first episode reached over 10 million viewers overnight before the ratings steadily declined during her run. You see, fans may have had gripes with the show, but they still cared. They voiced their criticism because they cared. And now here we are, just weeks after the The Giggle aired. Not only was it the last of the 60th anniversary specials, but it starred David Tennant and Catherine Tate, was a regeneration episode, and was Gatwa's first appearance as the Doctor. So what overnight ratings did it achieve? 4.62 million, and a 6.58 +7 days consolidated rating. That's abysmal. Half the audience who was still around for Whittaker's debut didn't bother coming back for Tennant, for the 60th anniversary specials, or to watch Gatwa's debut. Do you want to know what truly kills a franchise? It's apathy. More specifically, when over half your fanbase and rising becomes apathetic to a franchise it once loved and valued. And what better way to chase your viewers away than by calling them toxic, racists, homophobic, bigots, sexists, and so on. That "free advertising" only lasts so long before fans walk away. That only leaves fans like you, who seem to enjoy pissing off and owning the "Toxic Fans". So tell me, who are the toxic fans again? The fans who walked off after voicing their opinions and were name called in response, or the fans and creatives who were (and still are...) name calling those who dare oppose their own opinions and worldview?
It's bizarre how large of the RU-vid community is toxic, but the new episodes are actually doing EXTREMELY well. The amount of videos blatantly lying trying to come up with reasons Doctor Who is "failing" baffles me.
@gwres viewing habits have changed, though, and with what it was competing against on Christmas day with still the aftermath of declining viewing figures for years, what did you expect? Who cares about the viewing figures, haha??? Just enjoy it or don't enjoy it or don't.
"Extremely well"... Unless they're lying about the numbers, something incredibly easy to verify, there's no way the episodes are doing extremely well. Not bad? Perhaps. EXTREMELY well? Absolutely not.
Gatwa is an obvious diversity hire purposely given the role to provoke long time fans who are sick of the woke shit and decline in the quality in this programme. I found all the specials awful and the declining viewing figures from previous specials and it's the lowest debut episode on record. If it comes back in May that viewing figure will be far, far lower than even the lowest audience figure than even the Chibnall/Whitaker era By the way...people are not liking it AND not watching it. The viewing figures reflect that
all of the specials did really well in terms of viewing figures so you clearly have no idea what you are talking about As of right now The Star Beast has amassed at least 9 million since broadcast, the other two 60th specials have at least around 7 million and the Christmas special we only have overnight viewership for but we it's expected to also get around 7 million. And all 4 specials were in the top 10 for the week AND the most watched drama of their respective weeks which has never happened before for consecutive episodes even at Doctor Who's peak. And Ncuti Gatwa was cast because he's hugely talented, nothing to do with "diversity hire"
@@friendlyotaku9525 Don't know where you you got these fictional figures from but it's obvious cope "at least 9 million" Where the f*ck did you get those figures from? Not very specific Star beast did 5.08 million and was soundly beaten by strictly come dancing at 7.67 million. This would have been greatly reversed under Tennant's era Not only that each and every special was in declining figures going from 5,08 down to 4.83 then down to 4,62 each subsequent week and finally with Gatwa's debut at 4,73 million the lost debut ever in the 60 year history of the show It's the overnight ratings the BBC look at for keeping a show on TV because streaming views don't count. One minute played on BBC iplayer counts as a view. That means people have no interest in the programme and only mistakenly have their device on BBC1. Finally you' ve got to wait till May till the new series this tells me that the BBC and the showmakers have no faith in the crap they put out.
@@michaeldavies7949 "Where the f*ck did you get those figures from?" Russell T Davies himself confirmed this. "It's the overnight ratings the BBC look at for keeping a show on TV" lol no it isn't, consolidated ratings are what matter a lot more, this has been confirmed by people from the BBC like Lizo Mzimba who reports these things. "Finally you' ve got to wait till May till the new series this tells me that the BBC and the showmakers have no faith in the crap they put out." Where you getting that idea? Doctor Who will likely premiere the week after Eurovision so the two don't conflict as Eurovision is a HUGE event so it makes sense to air Doctor Who after, if it aired before then that would mean Doctor Who would have to take a week break between episodes as it did back in 2007 and 2008, they likely want to avoid that this time! It also means a smaller break between the end of the series and the 2024 Christmas special - 5 months compared to the typical 6 of the first RTD era.
@@michaeldavies7949 It depends on which viewing figures you're looking at. The 9 million is referring to the 28 day figures while you are talking about the overnight viewing figures which don't account for those who watch on iplayer. The christmas special is the #1 scripted show of Christmas day. This is the only time a Doctor Who christmas special has done that. In terms of waiting until May that is very common. In RTD1 Christmas invasion aired on Christmas, and then David Tennants first full series aired in Spring (a couple weeks early that the new season will, but that comes down to a reduced episode count because of how hard 13 episodes a year was for RTD to produce in 2005). The BBC clearly have faith in the new era of Doctor Who since a Season 2 for Gatwa had started filming before the 60th anniversary had even aired. Your comments on Gatwa being a diversity hire are baseless. According to everything we've heard this is not the case. RTD originally was going to go with a different actor entirely until Ncuti (the final actor to audition) nailed it. RTD auditioned all sorts of people for the Doctor and Ncuti Gatwa turned out the be the best one. As simple as that.
Yknow what I’ve been feeling exactly the same way since the Star Beast. I’ve hidden and unsubscribed from a couple of channels because I can’t deal with the rage off people, particularly those who claimed that Doctor who was ruined by including a black trans character. Most of the ire I’ve witnessed is directed to Rose, and how her inclusion in Star Beast has killed the franchise. Honestly it’s RTD running the show, the guy who brought us Queer as Folk, It’s a Sin, Years and Years, and introduced numerous queer characters throughout his first Who run, what were you expecting?! The man oozes gay, it’s one of the reasons I appreciate his work! As it goes, this is the first video of yours that I’ve seen. I’ve subscribed off the back of this. Bravo for calling out the bullcrap!
To be fair to the 'arrogant' fans, the worst offender is RTD. He is aggressively pushing his social agenda and doesn't want to listen to anyone who disagrees with him, in fact he said 'tough' to one fan who dared to have a polite but different point of view. The BBC is supposed to cater for all its licence fee payers, not just those that RTD likes. He forgets who pays his wages. Yes Doctor Who evolves, but nearly all it's core elements are from the classic era and if for example it would be wrong for RTD to retcon Chris Chibnall, then why is it OK to retcon Terry Nation's contribution? The simplest solution would be to make more than one edit and put them both on the IPlayer. One for Gen X and one for Gen Z, then everyone is happy. In fact it would be fascinating to see which one viewers actually preferred.
I’m sorry couldn’t watch the whole video. I guess I’m a toxic fan. I loved doctor who when it was good and the doctor was the doctor and science was science. I don’t need magic, sing alongs, or rewriting the doctor to fit some personal views like the director is doing. Doctor who is not a vehicle for him to interject all his woke garbage as he wishes to do. You can’t defend this and no amount of saying fans are toxic for wanting to protect the legacy of the doctor can change this fact. If your opinion is fans are toxic, your opinion is rather extreme. You fail to understand what they are upset for. Maybe the video would clarify better your position but all I heard multiple times at the beginning is: Fans toxic, I’m just saying, fans toxic, I was able to have conversations, fans toxic. That is a huge turn off for a fan of differing opinion as you when you keep calling them toxic.
I liked the anniversary episodes, it was very different though, it felt more like a mini series where as the 50th anniversary felt like a grand spetical event. Given the recent past of doctor who it was the right approach for the 60th episodes. The show needs to work it's may back up to have an monumental anniversary and to have it make sense story wise. I liked these episodes and it was the first time doctor who put a genuine smile on my face for the first time in a good while. I too though the social issues raised in the star beast was handled very well but I feel like it did get a little cringe with how they used the terminology at the end of explain how they got rid of the metacrisis in both donnna and rose but apart from that every thing else was perfect! At the same time these people who are angry deffinetly should not watch rtd's other shows as he's always been one to focus on these issues. Another thing I read was the reason why rtd chose to bring back tenant and due to how he had lost his partner, he wanted to give an ending to a character he loved and wanted to still have something he loved still exist and live on, when I read about it, it was very heart warming to want to have what you love continue to exist and live on.
Power of the Doctor WAS the monumental anniversary, so it made sense for the 60th specials to not be as big in terms of being celebratory as that one was.
They say they are fans and maybe once they were but if they are so triggered by the changes, then why don't they stop watching and stop bothering other people.
I wasn't impressed with The Star Beast. It was basically a Chibnall episode under a different name, with RTD finding every opportunity to degrade and insult Tennant's Doctor for the 'crime' of being a man. It's no longer our Doctor Who and hasn't been since Chibnall, that's the issue, it's been supplanted entirely. Wild Blue Yonder was a reprieve though. There is quite a difference between just simply showing LGBT+ etc. and the way the show halts the plot to make points or monologues at the audience in a patronising fashion.
Even a fair number of moderates have hated the 60th specials. I've heard several people on streams compliment the subtlety and grace of how the trans issue was handled in the first 5-10 minutes of #1, when the entire episode went off the rails with manic preaching virtue signaling.
History keeps on repeating I guess. Almost the exact same arguments and reactionary post hoc rationalisation has been used to justify bigotries for centuries. And every time the people caught up in the moral panic will earnestly and honestly believe that they’re not repeating things like the previous panic’s participants did. It’s the nature of moral panics for those caught up in them to know they’re being rational and moderate. Some previous moral panics following the same basic arguments and form: gay people, D&D players, Catholics (multiple times), Jewish people (many many multiple times), and even left handed people. They never feel like a moral panic to the people in the middle. They’ll always feel different and ‘this time it’s real’. But whenever you need to evoke an agenda or a scheme or a conspiracy in an argument, it’s worth honestly reflecting on how you got there. It’s not an agenda or virtue signalling whenever a creator represents an aspect of reality or is just sympathetic or even includes a message or evokes an emotion. That’s the entire point of art after all.
@erosion271donna being binary and rose being the nonbinary that prevents the metacrisis from killing donna explicitly is just about that energy being shared between the both of them and has nothing to do with the fact that rose is trans, shes just a character that is trans and is existing, you are getting mad at her for existing here because her transness has nothing to do with the metacrisis and her being the nonbinary that prevents donna’s death It would have happened if she gave birth to a cisgender child, because it had everything to do with rose being donnas biological child and being born with the energy in her
Couldn't agree with you more! Many of the critics don't just hate the show. They seem to love to hate it, and they love to tell us all about it with a kind of gleeful toxicity. They all cry 'Woke' without ever telling us what that means. Whoever is pushing the 'Woke agenda' as a wedge issue is doing a very good job.
Progressive media: sincere, intelligent, nuanced, well-written examination and inclusion of progressive ideas, themes, and characters. Woke media: insincere, lazy, stupid, black ans white, and horribly-written examination and inclusion of progressive ideas, themes, and characters. Is this definition enough for you?
@@quantumvideoscz2052 yup, "They all cry 'Woke' without ever telling us what that means." clearly this person has never watched any of the criticism videos, they often go in to great detail about the problems they have with the shows/movies. The idea that people who have been fans for decades of a show are not allowed to be upset with the way all their favorite franchises are headed is insane.
I’ve been going back to watch some of the Chibnall run, and I realize that I missed quite a bit of good content because I took the opinions of YT channels and skip over some that got the impression was bad. Having the full run and a new show allows you to appreciate that era a lot more in hindsight (I now even think there was something that The Timeless Child could add to the Whoniverse). Doctor Who has always had amazing episodes and messing continuity, and a long as the show doesn’t feel boring (like series 11 still feels to me) I’m willing for new directions to be taken. I had Tennant and Smith in my childhood, it’s time to let the next generation to enjoy their Doctor.
Love to see that, this is exactly why it's not good to let others influence your own opinion, it's always good to go in with an open mind and give things a try and you may end up very surprised
@@tvguy61 I personally think it is and the overuse of the sonic is a modern who problem in general tbh though it is used a lot though I would say the overuse was worse in Matt Smith's era and for one particular reason: the sonic in Jodie's era is never used to RESOLVE the plot whereas it was used that way sometimes in Matt Smith's era.
@@friendlyotaku9525 This is what I just learned, lol. I quit watching halfway through Series 8, as I wasn't up for an angry, shouty doctor at the time, waiting to see if/when he turned a corner. Then I heard Jodie's run sucked so I never went back. Well, I sure shot myself in the foot, lol. I loved the 60th Anniversary Special, love the upcoming doctor, so went back to watch Series 8 - 13. I ended up eventually loving the 12th doctor's character arc and loved 13 from the jump. I don't know if it's because I binged it so took the whole thing in at once (Series 11 was a breathe of fresh air for me, having mostly monsters-of-the-week after 10 series of the-universe-is-doomed story arcs, lol), but Jodie is now my 2nd favorite doctor (David's still my first). So yup, you're right! Always make up your own mind!
completely agree, the fandom is so toxic especially on tik tok and youtube, people seem to hate change and talking about certain topics is deemed as "woke" when doctor who has been tackling topics like that for years. ironically enough the most positive things I've seen are from reddit which ppl consider to be the most elitist.
The old "toxic" trope. I have no problem with new Who but I do have an issue with overt and divisive messaging. What I really hate is people being labeled as toxic for not liking the direction it's going in. Doctor Who has become an agenda vehicle and I have stopped watching it. The next season will tank, I can guarantee it.
I also hate the gaslighting that is going on. They changed the whole show to the core and replaced it with something shittier. And they just sweeping critisism under the rug by saying "Doctor who is about change" You can watch a Doctor Who episode from 1963 and 2013 and the same basic elements are there. The show is renewable not replaceable. Same with the Doctor who always been progressive bs. First, you dont have to be a liberal to not support genocide for god sake, conservatives are not monsters. Second they are cherry picking. In the first Dalek story at the end when they celebrate the ladies are serving cocktales for the men in mini skirt as short as possible without showing their asses. Using the same thresshold the Doctor who always have been progressive you could also say that Doctor who always had been about a heterosexual bloke, who saves and restore the patriarchy. How the show was refered by Tumblr before Jodie Whittaker took over to "fix" the show. It is ridiculous. Doctor Who is mostly a non offensive show, with universally accepted moral values for a general audience. Now it is whatever thoose self hating white rich dudes who hates their audience belive shoehorned in
'The Giggle', I thought was a reasonable episode. It was nice to see the return of a villain that we hadn't seen in a while, which the 50th anniversary also did with the zygons. That is, right up until the "bigeneration", essentially rewriting how regeneration works and detracting from the sacrifice each Doctor makes upon regeneration. 'Wild Blue Yonder', with its very small cast, makes it a very simplistic episode with not many moving parts for the writers to navigate. For me, there wasn't much outstanding about the episode except the Newton scene at the very beginning. Not only did it butcher the story of how he discovered gravity, but the scene did not need to be there. Seriously, it makes no impact on the plot. There's an old saying, "a designer knows he has achieved perfection, not when there's nothing left to add, but when there's nothing left to take away". If there's something that's not adding to your story, it'll be better to leave it out altogether. 'The Star Beast', I'll be honest, I absolutely could not stand. Not just because of the rampant political pandering, though that is a major factor, but because of the way the meta-crisis was retconned. And then we come to the fundamental issue that I saw across all 3 episodes. It was an anniversary special. It is in the name, the episode (or episodes, in this case) should be celebrating the anniversary of the show. The 20th anniversary did that, the 50th anniversary did that, the 60th did nothing of the sort. Also, since the special came across 3 episodes, I feel this should be pointed out as well. There wasn't a consistent plot across the entire special. Overall, I give the 60th anniversary a 3/10.
@fgjsdfgjkl First, said by a teenager and not corrected by anyone. Just the opposite, in fact. Second, my brother is a teenager and he's not like that. Also, Doctor Who has had teenagers before and none of them were ever like that. Why the change now, I wonder? Third, it was more than just one line. There was a line about the Doctor also being "non-binary", followed by an entire scene showing belligerent sexism that is treated by the show as if it's completely acceptable. Fourth, They have changed fundamental aspects. Take a look at the Isaac Newton scene, for example.
@fgjsdfgjkl You're challenge was "name one teenager that isn't like this", which I did. So, you're shifting the goalposts. "Misgendering" is just an excuse to impose compelled speech, which directly violates the Constitution (at least, in the US. I'm sure 'freedom of speech' is in other Constitutions). "The teenagers previously in Doctor Who were not teenagers in 2023", if anything, that just proves my point about modern political pandering. The notion of the Doctor (or any Time Lord, for that matter) being the same person in every incarnation was retconned in 2017's season. No, the point is not unrelated. The scene in reference fundamentally changed not only the appearance of Isaac Newton himself, but also, the narrative about how gravity was discovered. With the TARDIS crashing into the tree, Newton wouldn't attribute the falling apple (or apples, in this case) to gravity, but to the random box that just CRASHED INTO THE TREE.
I enjoyed your video, I couldn't agree more with you., and after all it's a TV programme, it's fun and escapism from day to day life. I've been watching Dr who since the early 70s and it's all got it's merits. After all it's fun and not real.
I'm also a Star Wars fan! That can be very toxic. I remember the backlash at Jody's casting...OH MY GOD THE DOCTOR'S A WOMEN!!!! I loved Jody, not so hot on Chibnells take on the show. Now the Doctor is a black gay man, & I LOVE IT. I like Rose Noble. I liked the specials, the first was OK, 2nd enjoyed, 3rd, really enjoyed. I think it's great that Dr Who is more inclusive of the disabled, LBGT, etc. There are quite a few classic episodes that included environmental messages, eg Pertwee's 3rd Doctors The Green Death1973/74. A lot of moral messages in classic who also, the 4th Doctor's ' Do I have the right' So these nasty critics haven't even sat and watched any classic eps. Some of the classics haven't aged well, looking at you Talons of Weng-Chung. Brilliant story, but the use of 'yellow-face' does take away some of that brilliance. The Doctor to me has all ways been a moralistic figure (except for the Doctor victorious) and the First Doctor attempting to use a large rock to kill some poor caveman! Thank God Ian was there to stop him. But over all, a very good soul. That's the reson i love. Doctor Who❤
Honestly man they are toxic. Like u can dislike something but it’s always cuz they think there’s an agenda or don’t realise that there is sometimes some tacked on endings in Doctor who. I’ve seen a lot of Doctor who is dead hashtags and it’s like you’re killing a show that can regenerate itself to your liking I mean rlly?
@@LibertyBridgeProductions It is pushing an agenda, though? Even the BBC's internal reviewers have slammed it for sacrificing story for 'the message'. It's a whole pile of agenda.
I’m never really convinced at the sincerity of these hateful You tubers mainly because You Tube is their bread and butter. Many will follow in their footsteps in order to make a career. Truth is that Doctor Who survives because it always does moulds and reflects the society exists within. The mild sexism of the 60’s to the diversity of 2023. The thing about these anti-fans is that they’re never bold enough to be challenged. What does “Woke” actually mean? If you were to break it down, I think we all know what they really mean. I predicted that RTD was going to rattle the New-Who fandom like he did with the classic fandom of which I’m a part of. Change is uncomfortable but necessary. I didn’t like the Doctor kissing and crying but I understood that an audience 20 years younger than me is used to their hero’s being that way. As a fan I had to accept that the show was aimed at a new generation and not 50 something’s. Nerdrotic is in his mid-fifties and I doubt he was watching Jon Pertwee when broadcast. So his hate and ire is about something else. Some fans need to realize that Doctor Who is fine but it may not be for you anymore.
A clue - as I'm sure you've noticed if you're online regularly - is the number of NEW CHANNELS in this vein that have sprung up SINCE the Anniversary Specials! Probably ALL monetized.
Sadly grifting and flat out lying to their audiences gets them a lot of money and views, it's shocking really but RU-vid refuses to do anything about it.
"I think we all know"... Here you go: Progressive: Sincere, intelligent, nuanced, and well-written examination and inclusion of progressive ideas, themes, and characters. Woke: Insincere, lazy, anti-nuanced, and lazily-written examination and inclusion of progressive ideas, themes, and characters. Is it clear? Or have you already decided I am an evil Na*i because I disagree with you, so you won't even bother to read this?
I agree with a lot of your points. I too did not like the Chris Chibnall era- i thought it was poorly written, the politics were badly handled and it just didn't feel like Doctor Who. However come the recent specials (especially the Christmas special) I've found my love for the show once again. It does seem like a lot of these people are straight up refusing to even try to enjoy the new episodes, and finding a balanced viewpoint is harder to find. If someone liked the Jodie era, that's fine. Im not going to call you an idiot for finding enjoyment where i couldn't. And likewise if you didn't like the recent specials. But i don't want to be lumped in with 'YOURE PART OF THE WOKE AGENDA AND WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS '. I would have been interested to hear more of your thoughts on the other side of things. More specifically the people that claim that if you didn't like the the Chibnall era, the recent specials, or have a slight problem with how certain castings and politics are handled, then you're automatically a sexist/racist/whateverist toxic anti wokist. That's certainly something i had to deal with through the entirety of the chibnall era, as well as when i took issue with how certain things were handled in the recent specials. Id be interested to see you do another video on the other side of things, up to you though.
The chibnall era is incredibly frustrating to me for many reasons mostly because I wanted to like it, honestly, truly. It's just so much wasted potential with rushed character work and stories beats. Like everything is there to make good who but chibnall just can't fit it together satisfyingly. Jodie deserved a better show runner, the first woman doctor deserves better. That's not to say there aren't parts I like but so much overshadows it for me. On the other end of things I feel the same as you about the return, ESPECIALLY the new Christmas episode. I don't think I've felt as joyful now as I did back when I was but a wee lass seeing the revival with my dad in 2005. The show was So full of wonder and excitement back then and something about it just pulled me right back there again. Ncuti Gatwa is unequivocally The Doctor and I couldn't be happier. :)
@@Raarzard I really agree with you. I too wanted to like the chibnall era as i, while having some potential reservations, thought that a female doctor could work. It really sucks that the first female doctor was given such poor writing, which sets a bad example going forward if they decide to go down that route again. It was heartbreaking that where once I would get excited whenever they announced the next series, I was feeling completely indifferent to it and even ended up skipping episodes. That's never happened before. Now my excitement has returned. Whilst I had some issues with the recent specials, particularly with some of the political aspects, it now feels like Doctor Who again. And that's really all I want. :)
Yeah. Jodie was one of the weaker Doctors but I still liked her to an extent. But those anti-woke morons prove repeatedly that they clearly don’t know what the show is truly about. Just because they didn’t see the liberal messages in Doctor Who before, doesn’t mean they weren’t there. In fact, I would say Classic Who was less politically subtle than NuWho.
@@cheeseandchocolate3816 I hate to say this but I found myself loving the fugitive doctor and the master a lot more than Jodie’s doctor which is sad because I wanted to love her as the doctor as well but it just feels weird that the master and the fugitive doctor was better written in my opinion then the doctor in the master should’ve been the timeless child because to me that makes a lot more sense. Kevin how the Timelords have treated the Master and it could’ve had more powerful meaning to the doctor character if it was played as the Master saying that you was supposed to be my friend and you were supposed to help people who are in danger or at least that’s the lie that you told yourself because doctor when I needed you the most what did you do you stole a tardis and you ran away But they could still do that, by saying that it was actually the master who was the timeless child and he was the first to bi regenerate during the torture period of the experiments done by the timelords so he bi regenerated but when that happened that’s how the doctor to be because the doctor and the master are the same person
I absolutely agree with this and im glad its being called out, i started watching Doctor Who in 2015 when Capaldi was the Doctor, starting with Eccleston, and i hate to say it, but at the time I had a bit of toxicity in me that I've since worked on. My thing was mainly the new Doctor, always having an affinity for the one we were just on or the ones in the past, and by the time we got the announcement that Capaldi was leaving, i decided to change from "NO! THE NEW DOCTOR WILL SUCK!" to "You know, I'll give them s shot. Now as much as i feel Chibnall was hit and miss, I loved Jodie as the Doctor and was sad to see her go. Once RTD came back, i was excited, and I expected the fans to be too since he was considered the gold standard of Doctor Who, during Moffet's run I saw more people saying"this is the final nail in the coffin for Doctor Who, it's too woke" bla bla bla. Most of the criticism I see is the "woke" plot points that just reflect thr time we're in. It's gotten so ridiculous that i saw one of the clownfish videos about the Goblin Song and the comments were so stupy like "RTD is basically admitting he eats babies" and "This is a song celebrating baby eating" like, have they never heard of the concept of a villain song? 😂 People want to hate just to hate, and I don't know if the negative channels actually feel this way or if they're pandering (a word the "anti-woke mob" use to refer to a person of color, disability or LGBT+ lifestyle) to those people. Makes me not want to look up Doctor Who on RU-vid anymore sadly 😢
Doctor who is a beautiful show that celebrates the world diversity and focuses on love and being the best person you can. No matter what the bigots say, that’s what makes the show amazing to me.
i find that the attitude towards the new companion/doctor/era maps perfectly into the 5 stages of grief, with the first and last step taking place simultaneously on the new and old one respectively
I appreciate this video! I've been watching Doctor Who since probably around late 2011 or so. I started with Rose and quickly fell in love with the show, having watched and rewatched the modern era over and over again, and even going back and watching several classic episodes too. I've found that every era has ups and downs, low points and highs. In fact, I'd actually say that Tennant's first era probably had the most episodes I disliked or liked less out of any modern Doctor (such as The Idiot's Lantern, Fear Her, The Next Doctor, Love and Monsters, The Lazarus Experiment, and so on), and yet I still loved his era as did so many others -- he's the most popular Doctor. But I loved seeing Eccleston on the show, Tennant, Smith, Capaldi (my personal favorite), Whittaker, and now Tennant again and Gatwa so far. For me, every era has had something to appreciate and enjoy. This is my favorite show, and I'm not going to let a line, a scene, or even an episode that I didn't care for ruin the whole thing for me. Side note: Was it just me, or is Wild Blue Yonder one of the best episodes of the entire show?! Absolutely amazing. I completely loved it.
Wild Blue Yonder was just wonderful. Quite the crazy rollercoaster ride, keeping me on the edge of my seat from start to finish. I'd rate it as one of my top 10 favorite episodes, and I've been watching the show since the Tom Baker era!
You want to go back to 2010, the era when people respected each other despite different opinions... So when you say 'If you don't like doctor who don't watch it' how are you exactly respecting the other side? Now yes Doctor Who has always been political, but the difference is that back then politics were blended well into the writing whereas now they shove it on your throat... Take The Star Beast for example, what was that shit Rose said about the pronouns? Was it necessary? No, it was cringe-inducing and out of place
Because if you don’t like it then it’s not for you, simple as that, don’t be forcing your negative opinions or narrative on people who like it because I hate seeing people hate the show due to it changing in a world that’s been very different since 2005, Doctor who is just trying to keep up with todays society
@@DoctorWhoManiaProductions23 grow up kiddo. Who exactly is 'forcing a negative opinion ' as you put it, on anyone?? Are they going out on the streets, kidnapping people, tying them up and forcing them to watch Nerdrotic and Bowlestrek videos on repeat ??😂😂😂 C'mon get real. If you don't like the negative reviews of a show you obviously love, like the bloke making this video, then it's easy: DON'T WATCH the negative reviews. Stop hate watching the critics. Ignore them! It's very simple when you think about it. You're entitled to your opinion, and they're entitled to theirs. That's what being mature means.
Yes it changes, but we want sci-fi entertainment not woke politics and agenda even if you support that. everything woke is failing!!! Let Dr Who be pure Sci-Fi again and it will thrive
I'm so tired of hearing the toxic fan bull s***. Yes doctor who changed cast but the character was close to the same. The energy levels changed. The doctor was always about science and fact. Pushing political and social lies is not doctor who. For me. This new Disney doctor is worse then chibnal Era.
You claim to have been a long term Bowlstrek fan, yet then follow up by saying you just noticed how angry he is. Yeah... Good to see you did your own research. Also, if you were actually a fan you would know that the Doctor has already met Newton. The show now even hates himself. Star Beast also took the first comic canon black companion and just deleted her. This show is hate. #RIPDoctorwho
Rose Noble was put to the show only to represent transgender people. It was her only role there, she doesn't show anything else there. She's being bullied? Oh poor thing, well, everyone is. What the "women can let go, men dont" thing was? And that's what she(oh sorry, I assumed the gender) is being criticised for. She can't be criticised for anything else dew to her not being anything else there. I liked the Blue Yonder episode, and Giggle, but the thing is that they were good because they contained the best moments of season 4 adapted for the plot. Doctor's leaking something than pretends to be poisoned? Donna already almost kissed him there. Doctor and Donna fighting creatures who can immitate them and with time become as smart as they're? Hello the Midnight episode! Doctor saying salt is dangerous? Hello from water pistol in Pompeii. Etc. there lot of other Easter eggs, so when you watch the episodes feels like you are back to 2009, but in fact nothing new is there. I'm grateful that Russell T Davis brought the Flux topic back, because it felt like 13 just forgot about it, like ahe forgot about all the pain and suffering 10-12 had been through. Good that 14 now remembers it and has that spectrum of feelings and emotions, that the Doctor does feel old again. Didn't like the bigeneration idea, prefered another scenepack of 10/14 saying goodbyes to everyone, including Ponds, meeting River(because they obviously met and she knows that with that face he knew about crash of Visentium), maybe meeting Clara on Gallifrey and sending her back to the Raven. Still I have two ideas of why the bigeneration was included. First - for old fans of the show to get them the finale of their Doctor who. Their Doctor finally's home, he found peace after so long time and so much suffering he deserved His Reward, which IS FAIR. Second idea is that 14 now is a backup plan, he'll either get his own series and show up in 15th+ doctor series sometimes or he'll remain the doctor in this Universe whereas new ones will go and find out about their past and fly to other, the homeworld Universe... I don't really want that, but it seems that they decided to develop the timeless child arc, since 15 now cries of him being adopted (5 billion years old kid, poor thing, was adopted.)
Wrong premise! The shiw is broadcast for public consumption and review, they MUST accept ALL public opinion. A fan, whatever they think, it is NOT up for review, they may voice their opinion, but it is their opinion and not up for debate, unless they present it for debate. There is no such thing as a TOXIC FAN. A fan is someone who is fanatical about something. If they're not then they are NOT fans, they're critics. You dont define which they are, they do!
I hate to say it, but this sort of hate by certain fans has always been a thing. I remember the "classic who elitists" back in the day who would hate on anyone who liked New Who when it was first airing. I think it's gotten way louder as the years have gone on and the whole hate on "wokeness" is new though.
Seems like you can't accept the opinions of people who don't like new Who. "There's loads of people voicing their disappointment, but they're wrong and arrogant!" Without a shred of self awareness
When there is a general downturn of broadened literacy, there is an accompanying downturn of imaginative flexibility and discussive tolerance. Then views get to be far more religiously adhered to and divisive partisanship increases. We have to remember that language itself is the foundation of thoughtful progress, when language is impoverished, thoughtful progress through thoughtful debate is stifled by heightened emotional states, name calling and conflict. When Doctor Who first started in the 60s, it coincided with a heightened amount of literacy, a great deal of it experimental and a literary renaissance amongst the young. This has subsided and at the tail end, with that generation now, as am I, in our declining years, that renaissance has been replaced by easily served up unimaginative junk. My friends and I well remember the George Pal version of HG Wells' Time Machine (1960) and have realized that we are seeing the rise of the Eloi. I mentioned this to one of those friends not long ago via text. I said that the Eloi are coming and we didn't have to wait until the year 802,701. He texted back that they are "already f*****g well here!! Carl Sagan predicted this age we are living in, back in the 90s, in his final interviews and in an address to Congress on literacy. Also that increased and chronic stresses in the environment from agitating influencers that have a devaluing effect upon self-worth that leave you feeling that everything about life in general is out of your control, bosses, politicians - especially perlocutionary agitators who launch their tirades into your home through the media, will also have a disastrous effect upon any imaginative discourse and leave it downtrodden. Anything that is unfamiliar then triggers a proximity alarm and ramps up the fight emotions and is flattened like a worst enemy in those that are worked up. Anything or anybody that is diverse is picked upon by the emerging 'Dalek' that has "detected the non-conformity!" the "alien" and we know what Daleks do don't we?
A lot of the negativity is also being pushed by self-prophesed non fans as well. There are issues with the new shows, but interestingly enough, the people complaining aren't touching on those issues, they are complaining about an agenda being pushed while pushing their own. It's the same across fandoms, whether it's Doctor Who, Marvel, Star Wars, Disney, DC or even, of all things, The Boys (some fans not getting the memo that Homelander was a bad guy, go figure) I haven't enjoyed Doctor Who back with Capaldi, but I stuck with it in the hopes of finding stuff I can get excited about. But the fan base has destroyed any interest in diving into the fanbase, because the couple of groups I joined, would be better suited hanging out on twitter. I'll focus on the collecting the classics, and evaluate the Disney stuff as we go. Though retconning Davros bugs me and bigeneration apparently affecting all incarnations of the Doctor...yeah, that removes a lot of stakes about the Doctor regenerating. As far as Newton.... The whole "mavity" thing has worn real thin for me, so hopefully they resolve that sooner than later, because for me it's a distraction
The person making this video hashed over the point in a very long winded way, complaining about people who disliked the specials as not having "credible arguments", which is a silly thing to say. It's a tv show, and your own reaction is personal. You're not forced to like it or watch it. it's your own choice, thankfully.
No I think you are the problem here, the showrunners are going out claiming anyone who dislikes the show is X or Y and have openly said they are deliberately trying to upset the original fans of the show. If you support that kind of behaviour its you who is the problem, the fans arent toxic, you are.
00:35 wait what? I maybe should talk to other people more oftne, but I was very confident that its generally agreed upon that Tennant is the best doctor, I mean... I don't know the og docs, but with the modern series I think everyone agrees that Tennant is the best doctor, also he is the cutest doctor, like literally the only one of them thats actually cute, allthough the old scottish dude had something going for him I have to admit
It's allways fine to have a diferent poinnt of view, but in this case, you're just wrong my friend. If you want Dr Who to develop and change over time to something that you like, that's normal and understandable. But the woke-change is more than that. it's not just that the new Dr Who must be black and gay, we are now told that our original, first Dr Who (who, yes, I can remember) now was not the first Dr Who, as that first Dr Who did not fit the prescribed demographics.. That is the thing about woke culture, they don't just want to change the present and the future, and create it, like God, in their own image. They also want to change the past. Well... sorry, but no, you can't change the past. William Hartnell was the first doctor Who, even though he was of a demographic that is now being cancelled. Do what you like with your insane present and your future, but you can't change the past (not unless you have an actual Tardis... now that would be impressive).
Wait Doctor who has toxic fans? Why does everything I like have evil fans? even things I only like mildly like Star Wars or Taylor Swift... I am cursed...
I advise you to watch the EFAP podcast. You can see a really calm, intelligent discussion that, however, most probably doesn't share your opinions. A great way to see whether the fans are really toxic, or if calling all naysayers toxic fans is just a shield used by the media.
To be fair fans are acting the way the people made it act half the time. Like Tom Baker buillied everyone on set until jnt bullied him into quitting. Eric Saward to this day still hates JNT and has been blacklisted by Big Finish because he trashed Colin Baker. Christopher Eccleston hates RTD. Innes Lloyd sacked William Hartnel etc.
So up until 5 years ago (after 55 years of ALL fans loving or being tolerant of Dr Who) those of us who have been watching, have to listen to Gen Z pushing an agenda. I suspect you don't actually tell the truth so as to make your channel attractive to those with their agenda. I get what you say about some negative RU-vidrs, but come on, its very blatantly obvious over the last few years that this whole thing has turned to shit. And ps im angry too. Pissed off being lectured at!
Actually, the so-called toxic fans are no longer interested in watching the series and have moved on, so making videos about them serves no purpose. I think the level of disappointment among long time fans is very real, and the BBC got desperate and brought back RTD to try to salvage the franchise. Unfortunately, all four specials have been poorly written, directed and edited. Like it or not, RTD is not the great savior, and Doctor Who has become a shell of its former glory. If the series continues on its current trajectory, it will continue to bleed fans, and eventually be cancelled or put on a lengthy hiatus.
I enjoyed this video & I couldn’t agree with you more. I have been a fan since the 70’s & although there were a couple of stories & episodes I didn’t enjoy over the years, they still entertained & I appreciate still having such a series to watch. I do get annoyed with all those out there going on about Dr Who is dead, lost the plot, over it, traitors etc. I blame the internet & all the keyboard warriors. Any youtube vid that shows up with any negative crap in the title for Doctor Who, I simply click on “Do not recommend channel” I enjoy it for what it is. I felt sorry for Jodie, she was a victim of poor writing, Chibnal was my least favourite, but I still watched the series & didn't bleet on about negatives
You my friend in my opinion are a very confused kid. How do you know that in condemning the opinions of others that you yourself are not the toxic Doctor Who fan of whom you unintentionally speak? Yes the show changes but has always remained faithful to the concept of its past history. Until now. The Doctor has never been sexualized, preached political correctness or been so horribly written until now. Those are completely fair points of dramatic criticism within the DW cannon and the ratings prove the majority opinion because the majority has walked away. You can't change that. Toxic? Not willing to accept other opinions? Look in the mirror, kid. The problem lies in yourself.
You have clearly not understood the point of my video, so I hope to explain it to you. I have no problem with people who dislike this new era of Doctor Who, I myself did not like the Jodie Whittaker Era but I did not call people who enjoyed it toxic fans preventing me from having an opinion. What I am against is the manner in which people discuss these different opinions, there is a civil way of doing things without resulting in petty name calling and insults. I had a lovely conversation in work just the other day with a man who had watched the show since 1963, it was great to debate the show without getting angry with one another over the matter. I suppose my last point is that I don't mind if you or others did not enjoy the episodes, at the end of the day that is your right and I'm not going to try and change your mind on that.
@@movierewind2017 and you need to understand that people are passionate creatures. Just because you like the current atrocity 2/3 of the rest of the audience hates and are happy and relaxed and content with this garbage dies not mean people with a right to their opinions and emotions should not express how they feel with the passion they feel about it for fear of upsetting the delicate emotions of snowflakes. Grow up, kid. Its a tough world full of lies. Be grateful you are getting honest opinions, griw a spube abd deal with it. People are pissed off at the ruination of a 60-year icon they grew up loving because of one bloated totally self involved gay activist. If you can't understand and accept that, I suggest you take yourself out if the public arena. Its a tough world. If you want sweetness and light 24/7 except when you happen to be upset,, stay home.
Have you read about Propaganda Techniques such as Framing, Suggestion & Glittering Generalities? Its an I-Spy book for the Disney Iteration of Dr Who. A number of the Former fans are using it to play bull5hit bingo with 'new' Who. BTW your Opinion are very much Bob Igers...
Er... what's Disney got to do with Doctor Who? Granted, when the BBC finally gets privatised (wasn't that meant to have happened this past year?) they doubtless stick a finger in the pie, but not yet!
@@worldcomicsreview354 New Who is destined for the Disney streaming platform but only if it meets the the creative standards Disney wants. Money talks , and deal appears but done.
I totally agree with you it's like during seasons one through four of the reboot I heard nobody complain about the show but when RTD came back to do these specials that looked and felt like those seasons people were hating them for the dumbest reasons and don't get me started on Nerdrotic
I think the majority of the people who declare Doctor Who dead are not fans. For example, many people take the headline that the Christmas special had the worst rating of the 4 specials and make it seem like its the worst rating of all NuWho. Being a fan also means that you care about Doctor Who in some way and the people who spread lies about Doctor Who in order to damage his reputation don't do that. I know the normal criticism of Doctor Who by fans all too well but this time it's something different Many “critics” now come to Doctor Who through Disney. If you look at what else they upload, many of them have previously criticized Marvel or Star Wars and had nothing to do with Doctor Who. I think that's because Doctor Who is so popular right now and reaches a lot of people
