@@timfrank7461 and that’s true but negan have changed like I hated him a lot I told everyone I hated him I dreamed of killing him but he have changed and I forgive him
@jkuromi6630 completely agree It's such a fun twist the villain of season 8/9 as now a hero I will say some dialog choices for him.were crap and even the actor hated then but he did the best he could with what he was given
@@5i.260and they murdered people in their sleep for the hilltop for food. Negan could have killed them all and STILL would have been in the right in that instance
@@jearbear750 and Saviors slaughtered all men in Oceanside for no reason. These people hung of Negan's victims for Christ sake. These people terrorized many communities. And I could go on. If Rick's group didn't attack the outpost first, the Saviors still would find the Alexandria. They actually already did, before the lineup. Dwight and guys, who met Carol on the road. The Saviors were evil and cruel, it's not like Rick's group just decided to kill all these people for fun. It's probably been 464325 times when I write the same thing about the Saviors. 💀
@@notcoolden exactly, negan never retaliated after daryl rpged those saviors, only then ricks group decided to attack the satellite outpost because they want food, thats when the whole thing started
Never forget the part that Negan was the one who was terrorizing communities and bashing people brains not Rick and his group. Alot of Negan meat riders are in this comment section. Rick and his group killed people who deserves it and why they deserve it because they attacked Rick's group first lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Negan is one of my favorite characters but Maggie killed those so called husband and fathers because they tried to kill her 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Negan meat riders 🤡🤡
Negan got tired of that shit of Maggie being mean to him no matter if he tries to help her or not, I mean yeah she will never forget the moment Gleen got killed by Negan...but fuck that, they have a kid to save, HER KID, WHO STILL ALIVE. And yeah, in this world, if you survived that far of course you were or actually are the bad guy from somebody else in some moment.
@@jessieaab8185 I said was obviously he isn't anymore but he used to be when he bashes in people's heads and took pictures of their bashed in heads and had his people sleep next to the pictures of bashed in head also when he killed all the men at Oceanside
@@Crittttt correct, but he was the good guy for his people. Same with how Ricks group was the enemy and bad guys to the Saviors for what they did to the Saviors.
@@jish55 I'm pretty taking pictures of people with smashed in heads and sleeping next to them and massacring all of the men in ocean side is not what a good guy would do no matter what side your on
He has a point. I think what Maggie needs, is a similar moment than Rick had back in season 8, when he found Gracie in the savior outpost and realized he had just made this baby an orphan.
Yea, writers gotta hurry up, Maggie being this way for so long with little to no change has been the worstost annoying part of the show... I get being so fucking cutthroat and a leader and husband dead and all, but mean shit, there's gotta be SOME character development SOMEWHERE😂
@@mickflick8133 honestly, good way of putting it... Honestly feels like she's going the wrong way in progress sometimes, like... Negan has done a SHIT ton for the crew and she arguably hates him more than when she watched him kill Glenn... I don't know... I think at some point she would be like "I don't forgive you. I but I can't say you haven't done shit for us either..."
I feel like the writers make it so that you side with Negan cuz Negan always spits facts in every argument he has with Maggie 😭 while Maggie’s only argument is Glenn
@@notoriouse6398 Maggie was already falling apart as a character to me in the latter half of the Savior war, but then she never, EVER changed anything, it's like her development just road blocked... She repeats the same shit like a skipping record😂
@@thescouts4734 I liked what she did with Gregory but in my eyes Negan redeemed himself. People say Abraham and Glenn is something he can’t be forgiven about but that’s only cuz you’re looking at it through their perspective. Idk how killing Glenn and Abraham isn’t any different from killing literally anybody else. I love Rick and his group but they have killed a shit ton of people. I’m not gonna defend the slavery or the manipulating multiple women to be his wife, but as a killer he’s no different from anyone else. He saved almost every main character in his redemption arc too (Judith and Dog, Aaron (twice), Lydia (four times), Daryl, Maggie (three times), Elijah (three times), Hershel, his wife and unborn child, Ezekiel, Magna, Kelly, Princess and whoever else was there He paid his dues 8 years in a cell and saving everybody numerous times. Rick would’ve grown to respect him
@@benten3260 I think negan should have left Alexandria and joined the CRM. Considering he’s the only one who witnessed a helicopter, he should have left Alexandria and go on the hunt to join them.
@@ishaanparthab4549It's not like he knew who they where or where the helicopter was from. Even then he still had a wife and kid on the way, why would he leave them to go look for some group he doesn't even know about?
wrong, just wrong. You can murder to protect. That makes you the good guy. You can murder to take. That makes you the bad guy. Now can you do this kindergarten exercise and decide in which group Maggie and Negan each belong to?
Heisenberg died a little bit before the outbreak. A Jesse Pinkman Tales of the Walking Dead episode focused in Alaska set at the start of the apocalypse would be so epic!
What I love about this scene and the episode is how they portray the moral ambiguity of both characters. Negan is long past atoning for what he did. He paid enough in his eyes and is willing to kill Maggie if it came down to it to survive. But he doesn’t hate her, in fact he respects and even admires her. On the other hand, Maggie hates Negan and because of that she clings to a moral high ground, struggling to accept that Negan has a point. They’re both killers and have killed to get what they wanted. The only difference is how they went about doing it and that’s where the debate is. It’s also the intelligence of the writing. To get people discussing the question of who is in the right or if neither of them are. Judging from the comments here. They’ve accomplished just that.
Big agree. A lot of people get really into one side and look past the other. A lot of people think Negan is in the right, but i really think the method is much more important than people give it credit for.
You get it. I wish everyone could get it like you do. This is the whole point of the show! I wanted Maggie to kill Negan since he killed Glenn. But, when she came back to the show and they began this arc? Man oh man is it captivating. It’s one of my favorite things TWDU has ever done. The entire show is moral ambiguity. Maggie and Negan just personify it. No one is right or wrong in this situation.
@@asimplewizardNegan wasn't in the right when he was stealing his people's wives, ironing their faces if they revolted, and invading other communities. However it was SIMON who was the true monster among them. The night that Negan killed Abe and Glenn, he was justified. Rick and co. had just massacred an entire outpost of his people and stole a baby. And as a leader he undoubtedly had people asking him to retaliate in some fashion, as they lost family. He showed mercy by only killing two (and only planning to kill one). He is also right in what he's saying now. Everyone, at this point in the apocalypse, is a bad guy. Everyone has done something horrible - probably multiple times - in order to survive that long. And Negan also spent years atoning for what he did. He knows he's not a good person, and acknowledged that the people around him are all better than him. And they inspire him to try to be better.
I’m going to be honest and say Maggie has done a lot worse. She always thinks she is the good guy, so when she kills as many people as she wants because she believes it’s okay for her. At least Negan is sorry for what he has done and I would never aspect Maggie to forgive Negan it’s about time she moves on because all she does is ruin her own life by stressing Negan when Negan is nowhere near the same person who killed Glenn.
I honestly expected him to say “I’m not the bad guy, I’m not one the who murdered people in their sleep” obviously referencing the satellite outpost massacre
People they murdered in sleep savages who needed to be put down. the room in which Glenn went to kill them, had pictures of their victims hanged up on the wall like some damn trophy for amusement. Glenn never enjoyed killing them like negan and his men did. How people defend and justify negan by giving this dateline outpost reference is disgusting. Negan killed kids, had forced wives which is equivalent to almost rape, burnt people alive, deformed their face, enjoyed bashing the brains out of people in front of their loved ones and mocking the victim and enjoying it. Rick’s group was not perfect, but they were much much better than negan and his men.
Considering how many Saviors Abraham and Glen killed in their sleep at the satellite station or Saviors Carol and Maggie killed when they were taken captive, Ricks group only losing Glen and Abraham was definitely considered mercy.
@@shushhhhh1983 Did Maggie have a choice when it came to killing Gregory? Did she have a choice when it came to letting Gage die? Let's face it, Maggie has no moral high ground in this series. Her hands are just as dirty if not more dirty because she has no code when it comes to dealing with people outside her circle.
Yes, but Maggie has never killed someone in front of their family and mocked them while doing so. She also never expected anyone to forgive her so…. She has every right to hold a grudge.
This is how Maggie and Negan argue Negan: the Saviors are dead, I have changed, I’m sorry for what I did, i did it 16 years ago, i helped you multiple times, you are no better than me because you’ve killed other people too, I saved your group and your son numerous times, i almost died saving you and all your friends, I left to raise my family and to leave you guys at peace Maggie: Glenn, Glenn, Glenn, Glenn, Glenn, Glenn, Glenn, and Glenn
@@GrogIV No. Negan said "hook up" meaning teaming up. But they should have made him say it a different way because it does make it sound like him saying they hooked up but they didn't.
I am not gonna debate the righteousness of Negan's words, or Maggie for that matter, Yes Negan killed Glenn and Abraham with a big smile on his face, which is quite different from what Rick and his group had ever done, Maggie will never forget that. However, Negan had many, many opportunities to kill Maggie over the years, or young Hershel, but he didn't, Maggie should think about that for a second, they will never be friends, but at least she should've recognized by now that Negan is indeed a changed man that is just trying to help and survive.
@@DisastrousIntentionallyJust rewatched the scene, he laughed at something Gareth said but even then it was more of a scoff because Gareth was talking shit, he wasn't guffawing with glee, and once he starts swinging dude is totally stone face cuz he isn't sadistically reveling in the pleasure of violence like Negan does. Y'all are really reaching when you compare the two.
They forget the people with the governor were good people who were manipulated. And they still killed them nonetheless to protect themselves, negan killed Glen and Abraham for the lives of his people they took. In that aspect, negan was in the right.
Rick's people killed more than Negan did (by killing Glenn and Abraham). She just obviously can't get over Glenn because of how much she loved him. It left an empty hole in her. She will never get over it.
@@mustachinhogrosso3535he’s talking about the 3rd and last assault at the prison where they brought a tank and Herschel was killed and Rick and gang had to flee, not the 2nd attack where they brought in woodburys people
@@RozeRDLRThe only one from the Governor’s new militia they took in was Tera, I’m pretty sure they just killed the others. Unlike those from Woodbury who they had mercy for. Do you know if any Woodburians survived to Season 11?
Not to be rude but just to correct you he actually was only supposed to kill Abe but then after the punch he killed Glenn so he was being very merciful
Even though Negan has done evil things in his past, he does have a point in putting Maggie in her place where she isn’t a saint either. All the people she’s killed, she was probably seen as a monster in other people’s perspective of her. This is something I wish was addressed better in this franchise, like how The Last of Us handled it
@@js1423right, people are just looking past that like it’s nothing😭 all of sudden Negan is the favorite and Maggie is supposed to forget and forgive how he murdered the love of her life and mocked him while doing so.🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
@@kiara3246also it’s been years lol and everyone forgave him she should get over it Ik it’s hard to do but negans changed and she needs to stop tryna kill him it isn’t gonna bring Glenn back Sue became worse than negan
@@javaughncarter3223 but the intention of why you killed someone matters, killing someone for your own self interest and killing someone for self defense are very different.
He was wrong when he tried to pull the "you're not innocent either" cause in her case she makes him notice that for what he did to her directly, in his case not.
@@Husky92223Negan is right maggie has killed people to so stop putting everything on negan why be cause he killed that peace of trash glean he sucks anyway
I don’t get how people justify/defend Negan. You make the bed you sleep in end of story. You go out your way to make enemies, don’t be surprised if years later they still see you as an enemy.
Exactly!!! I feel like I'm going crazy or something lol. Bunch of psychos in these comments. They're comparing the fact of Maggie and Negan killing people but they ignore the reasons why for both characters. That's the problem. Negan created his own world of chaos because he wanted to live like a king. All his men out there murdering innocent people and forcing communities to give up their stuff and half the time he didn't even know what they were doing. But he built that fucked up system either way. Rick's group killed threats so they don't repeat the same mistake they did letting The Governor run wild outside the gates of the prison, or letting Gareth escape Terminus. People preach so much about the early days of the show but haven't learned a damn thing from any of them lol
Because negan's words make sense. The world has changed and it is difficult to understand who is good and bad. And yes, Negan has done a lot of terrible things and Maggie has every right to feel that way about him, but each of them has blood on their hands, whether the person they killed was innocent or not and for what purpose it was done.
@Максат Райханов Then Negan should ask himself how he would've looked at the warden if he had to work with him after he killed Annie that night when they were down on their knees. Maggie is never going to look at him in any other way that isn't hateful. It doesn't matter how many husbands either of them killed. The point is he bashed her husband's head in with a baseball bat right in front of her. I was just explaining the fact that Negan caused all that shit with his empire but now he wants to hide in the fact that everybody has killed but that's not going to change how she looks at him. It wouldn't be that way for anybody. That's why I don't really understand the purpose of this show. They were just fine in the finale of TWD and now they want to completely reverse everything Season 11 built for both their characters. I just don't get it
It's the zombie apocalypse where to survive, you do horrible shit, simple as that. The only question isn't who is good or bad, it's just what are you willing to do to protect your group and make sure your group can survive and thrive. This means there is no good or bad guy, just a bunch of people trying to screw one another over to come out on top.
People keep ignoring the shit Negan has done AFTER Glenn and Abraham. The multiple wives, the iron, the extortion of people's supplies, the mental and physical manipulation, the list goes on. What happened to Glenn and Abraham was horrible, but Negan's sins go so much deeper than that, and people keep ignoring it. It's gross, honestly.
Both are killers yes, but I’ve never seen Maggie mocking someone while he’s dying the way Negan did with Glenn. That’s cold blood! I know he regrets it and said sorry and whatever, but.. it’s not the same.
Guys in case your wondering how he’s watching dead city already even tho it didn’t come yet, you need amc+ and you get to watch first episode a week early
What i dont see acknowledged from the series and the fans is how negan loved the pain he caused. The main group tried to be fair and kind and was betrayed. They killed out of need or safety. I can't recall when Rick or Maggie genuinely killed someone in the same way Shane killed the farm hand or how Negan killed Glenn, Abraham, and tortured Daryl. Sure Rick and Maggie had their periods of being bloodthirsty and unforgiving to any enemy, but still, it was always towards people who did something bad or were a threat. But all I see is: oh Rick is JUST like shane!!! Maggie is so unjustified for how Negan killed her Husband and would have robbed other families for years. Negan has obviously changed and we're all glad for it, but the only thing she owes Negan is indifference. If Negan did what he did with sadness and guilt rather than sadistic pleasure, he would be a massively different character from the beginning. But that didn't happen.
Omg ty sm!! This is the point I’ve been trying to get across. Every person in the apocalypse will do something bad but Negan taking so much enjoyment from it is startling. Everybody’s like he’s had it rough as if Maggie hasn’t. She watched her dad get beheaded and her husband her murderer
Wow, no matter what happened, the old world is dead. negan well always be a teacher and he's right And hearing magie said reminds of my sister the only difference is my sister hates being wrong as magie I don't think she still hadn't moved on from what happened to Glen and instead accepting what negan said was right she tries ignore it or dodges he's qestion. which deep down we all know he's right
The thing is, she has a hard time believing he has changed when really he had changed already when he met her in season 6. If only she knew that and that he just went back to who he originally was before she met him she would totally see him differently.
No he’s not, Maggie never executed parents while laughing and making fun of them as their lover watched. If Maggie killed a bunch of parents, it’s fine as it was in self defense. Negan didn’t kill in self defense. He killed in the worst way possible, fully intentionally, and he did this stuff many times. It’s never acceptable or fine or forgivable, what Negan did. No one else in all of the walking dead has done things as terrible as him. Still a good and important character. Just not a good person. Sorry for writing so much lol I just really don’t like when people try to justify what Negan did or make it seem not as bad by comparison.
@@chewy99. "Maggie killed bunch of parents, it's fine as it was in self defense" What the fk dude? You guys should understand its really cringe. I know Maggie is an MC but that doesn't make her shit angelic. Again "Self defense"?!?! My ass!!
😀 They're chemistry is amazing and the writers are doing a good job making the audience debate over their character's perspectives can't wait to see more of it!
Maggie is like that crazy gf that never lets go of your mistake even if years passed by lmao 😂 ( I know what negan did is hard to forgive but let it go, it wont bring glenn back)
“Ask yourself one question: How many husbands and fathers have you killed?” This line really goes to show how much of Negan’s point makes sense. Everyone has done whatever they have to keep going, especially Maggie. I also find it odd how she still doesn’t trust him, despite bringing him to NYC with her.
It's the reason why they kill though that matters, Negan's reasons for killing Glen is not the same level for Maggie killing no name characters like the saviors.
@@azizm8248Point still stands God knows how many husbands and fathers she killed and somewhere out there she’s someone’s Negan and the fact she ignored his question proves he’s right don’t matter if she doesn’t take pleasure in killing her hands are just as filthy as his
Neegans kill count is probably one of the highest in the world, canonically. Not to mention other acts he committed and turned a blind eye to. He is the worst of the worst, so no, he is not all right.
@@carsongxdIf u don't understand this then u need to rewatch the entire show. Everything that goes wrong and she blames him even though he is HELPING her
Pay attention bud. Abe, Sasha, and Daryl were threatened and almost attacked by saviors on the road before anything happened, and later we find out saviors were killing and taking hilltops shit for no actual reason.
@@OfficerFriendlyYT i never said that them attacking the outpost was wrong. correct me if i’m wrong, but i don’t think negan even knew about sasha, abe, and daryl until later when the saviors are taking alexandria’s weapons.
Finally someone calling out Maggie’s hypocrisy. Negan could have easily brought up how she let that kid get eaten which in my opinion is way worse than being bashed in with a bat.
I mean Negan has a point but i don't think we can judge Maggie, cuz as long as we're not affected we coud never imagine how it feels to witness such a horrible death especially when its your partners
