Negative Shadow of the Erdtree Review - Elden Ring 

Final boss should have been Consort Patches.

I just think the Miquella aspects of the DLC were the least compelling. Everything relating to Marika and Messmer and the Hornsent was much more compelling.

"Somehow Radahn returned."

I think that Radahn is a symptom, not a cause. By which I mean the reason behind why people are dissatisfied with him is absolutely all over the DLC. That reason being that the DLC has almost zero integration with the main game. There is zero mention of Messmer anywhere in the base game. When people first heard about Rellana, they thought that it was a joke. The Scadutree and the Divine Gate and the veil over the lands are neither explained nor brought up anywhere in the Lands Between. In the vast majority of the new lore, we are adding complications rather than elaborations, with just a few exceptions. The base game did not hint at any sort of connection between Miquella and Radahn outside of the fact that Malenia fought him, which was the subject of rampant speculation. On the flipside of the coin, the DLC barely, if at all, touches on anything Miquella was doing in the base game. The Haligtree is not mentioned once. Malenia is only referred to by proxy as the mother of the forager brood and is only mentioned by name in the description of Radahn's armor. The Eclipse or what it was for is never mentioned despite Godwyn's Death Knights being present and on a completely inscrutable quest. You can have Miquella's Needle in your head and it goes unnoted. You can wear Miquella's tiara to Malenia's boss fight or her own armor to Radahn's boss fight and nobody says a word. You can have the Flame of Frenzy in you and Midra doesn't change at all, and you are still referred to as a Lord of the Old Order or of the Erdtree or of Marika by everybody. There's no explanation of whether or not the body in the cocoon is even Miquella. There isn't even a cutscene for entering the DLC, you just go through a loading screen and zone in. I've heard people, including you, say that the Godwyn stuff was always wishful thinking in the vein of Velka from DS1. Well to me the much more apt comparison to DS1 is Sif. If you went and did Artorias of the Abyss first and save Sif, then Sif's cutscene actually reflected that in the base game. To me that reflects a level of care which is so often absent from Elden Ring. In a lot of ways this DLC is the most polished and finely crafted piece of content FromSoft has ever put out, but it's also missing the polish and craft that I would most care about.

you can't throw in Song of the Ancients and expect to to listen to anything else thats going on. 10/10 review i'm sure

I think if Radahn was the penultimate final boss that leads into a more original conclusion that people would have found that moment easier to swallow

Finding the Death Knight Armor set gave me so much hope man

"Easy to understand and easy to find" *Ymir looks at the camera*

God damn the fight with Miquella's faithful was amazing though. A blood bath of everyone turning on each other fighting for what they believe is right. One of my favorite fights in the game for its lore alone

Radahn’s story; from all of his lore we were given before and after the festival, to the festival itself was incredible and so well portrayed in the base game. The way that warriors from around the lands between gathered together to celebrate his life by giving him the honorable death on the battlefield the he deserved was near perfection. He is legendary. He didn’t need to have a place in the dlc, because his tale was already told.

In the base game, Radahn presentation was amazing. The cutscene with the voice acting, the build up to the once strongest of the demigods, the overwhelming (at first) battle with the possibility to summon multiple allies on a full battlefield. I feel like it was a bad idea to bring him back. I can't help but compare the new version to the previous amazing fight. Worst, he was mad with rot, then we freed him, only for him to become a puppet zombie...

1. Fragments definitely should've been either more plentiful, or standardized like in Sekiro where you get power-ups from killing bosses. I personally had to use a guide from level 14 to get enough to get to level 20. 2. Absolutely, 100% agree. It was more confusing than mysterious. Also doesn't help that it's rehashing an old boss, which is annoying at first glance. It'd be like if, instead of fighting Slave Knight Gale at the end of the Ringed City, you instead fought a variation of Yhorm. In hindsight, the lore makes sense. However, in the middle of the fight, it's a bit jarring and unsatisfying.

My biggest issue with final boss is that we already fought Radahn in a super special and cinematic way in the main game. I want a final boss to be shocking and unique, ala Orphan of Kos or Manus. It cheapens the Radahn Festival for me and was an awkward note to end the DLC with.

The biggest issue with the story of the DLC is even after defeating Miquella, we aren't presented with any new ending, or meaningful story bits that sows everything together. You beat the boss, and are given a cutscene that doesn't tell you anything you havent figured out urself by doing the side quests in Shadow. It's disappointing and there are still loose ends that probably won't be tied up unless they are cooking another DLC

I wish that the whole part of Miquella abandoning his flesh to ascend to godhood had ended with him placing his soul into Godwyn tobecome something beyond both life and death and really show the horror of his charm magic making people love a literal corpse

I find it so out of left field to see Radahn again. Not only are Ansbach’s and Freyja’s quest missable, but if you do not pay much attention to the game, you may not put the pieces together as to why a boss the player HAD to kill to enter the DLC is back.

Cerulean coast and its accompanying red flower area were both needlessly empty and absolute slogs that showed the worst of the flaws of open world in the souls formula

The biggest problem I have with the final boss is that there is too little surprise, not too much. Halfway through the game Ansbach & Freya basically say "Hey they're resurrecting this guy for Miquella" and from that point onwards you know exactly what the final boss is going to be. I expected a phase 3 to the boss, but there just wasn't, there was only anticlimax. Remember how in the base game , you know you're going to have to fight Radagon, that's a given. But then you're surprised by the Elden Beast (unless you paid AMAZING attention to some very fine details). Yeah, the fight against EB is god-awful, but the inclusion there is amazing. It hits that perfect balance between "I could've seen this coming" and "I didn't see this coming", and it raises some intriguing questions that get you thinking. Final boss dude over here, achieves the opposite. You can perfectly see them coming, but they don't make much specific sense. Anyone could've been Miquella's consort, and they don't really provide a reason for them to be, aside from "Miquella liked them I guess". And then afterwards, you don't get anything; it's just over. No second health bar, no nothing. And this just raises questions of the frustrating kind; what was this ritual even about then? Did Miquella just need one consort and one divine gate and that's it? Then what was all that business with the corpse with the stitched skin in the trailer about? Guess that doesn't matter anymore. Imagine if we had to, idk, fight that corpse that Marika pulled the Rune/Hairs from in the trailer. That would've been a fun twist. Anything at all would've been better.

I haven't hit play yet, but here's the one problem I have. There are enough Golden Seeds in the game to max upgrade your flask without getting every single one. There are exactly 50 Scadu fragments while 50 are needed to max upgrade the blessing. I don't think I need to say why this is incredibly stupid. I think you all know.

I think the worst part about Radahn being the final boss is that it's just not really that interesting purely as a concept. He's a character we already know a lot about and literally have to fight to access the dlc in the first place. The dlc doesn't really add anything to his character and mostly just uses him as a vessel to (very shallowly) explore Miquella. I genuinely think had he been a completely new and mysterious character or being we've never heard of before but is maybe hinted at in like one or two item descriptions people would be far more positive about it.

Radhan mostly just felt like fan-service to me. This is probably the last piece of Elden ring content/story we'll ever get, so I really would've liked a more satisfying sendoff. I think it's especially disappointing when you compare it to Dark souls, because they absolutely nailed it with Gael in DS3. Gael was a completely new character that we had just met a few hours earlier, and he wasn't even the final boss of the Dark Souls Story (edit: that would be Soul of Cinder imo), yet they still managed to make it feel so impactful and like a true sendoff.

Fromsoft needs to add some things to the plethora of empty spaces in these areas. It's a serious issue to scour every nook and cranny of an area and find absolutely nothing except maybe a smithing stone, or a glovewort.

BOSS SPOILERS: what really disappointed me was a lack of cutscenes for important bosses. bug lady and ESPECIALLY rellana deserved cutscenes. avatar, finger momma and bayle didn't need them tho, they were cinematic enough

Radahn is such an odd choice for the boss because it feels like random areas of justification for him being the final boss are very sloppy for no reason. The memory after the fight is such a letdown because you'd think it'd be a lore reward for those who managed to pass the fight but like... nah??? Everything in it we already knew. And the godwyn/radahn debate is likely just bad signposting by fromsoftware. It's highly unlikely they changed the final boss from godwyn to radahn, especially since godwyn is explicitly permadead in the lore, but the associations with Miquella up against his at-present lacking connections to Radahn outside of the DLC set people up for a different payoff than was delivered.

For me personally a big issue was how a lot of the items were just smithing stones or something else i dont really care about. There were parts I thought I'd find a cool new item or consumable and it just ended up being a couple +6 smithing stones

My biggest complaints are: 1: The location of some skadushs are not intuitive, especially the ones dropped by shadow guys 2: No new dialogue with characters from the base game. How does Melina have nothing to say about what happens there??? Edit 3: I just remembered the red place. WHY does it exist??? There are only repeated bosses and nothing interesting or new. Loved the last boss

Man the fact that they didn’t have it be Godwyn, just imagine the divine gate, with an eclipse looming over it. Not very original I must admit, but would have been infinitely better.

I think that as a final boss, Radahn didn't fit the existing lore. Sure, Miyazaki pulled a bait and switch with Radahn and Godwyn, but it doesn't really work because of how Godwyn was built up. For example, it is established in Fia's questline that Godwyn isn't dead, but rather that his soul can't reincarnate into the erdtree- which is why deathblight is so problematic, because it's the reintroduction of actual death in a world where death has still been removed. Because of this, Fia- as a deathbed companion- sleeps with Godwyn so that he can be reborn via the mending rune. Furthermore, in Castle Sol and the Golden Epitath suggest that Miquella and Godwyn were close, which makes sense because Godwyn was akin to a sun, lightning, and gold deity via the Eclipse. Now in the DLC, we find out that Radahn promised to be Miquella's consort under a certain condition, most likely death, but this doesn't make sense. Not because it simply doesn't, but because there was no indication that Miqulla and Radahn spent time with each other. Whereas its made clear that Godwyn and Miquella were close, which made some believe that Godwyn was Miquella's first choice, Radahn second. But that isn't right either. The game is trying to demand that we believe Radahn was Miquella's first choice, which wouldn’t make sense because Miquella's whole thing was making the impossible possible. Miquella created the Haligtree from his own blood, rivaling the erdtree- he blocked the outer god of rot from hurting Malenia, he accepted the rejected of Marika's order within his group. It also tarnishes this very character: the only demigod that was actually good for mankind is instead another person hungry for power, using any means necessary to obtain it-- which includes cursing mohg, ordering Malenia to kill Radahn- which lead to the nuking of all of Caelid, and that everyone that had ever loved Miquella was under his spell. Sure, his charms were brought into question and was definitely a villainous trait to be introduced, but with the DLC, Miquella was essentially the worst of them all. And unlike Ranni, whose character was shafted due to the mistranslation of her ending, Miquella is just another horrible person we must face. Worst of all, people have begun to speculate that the night of the black knives was because of Miquella now. Specifically, Godwyn's death, which was bound to happen because of the lore this messes with during the DLC. Godwyn would’ve made more sense because of all these issues. Miquella, desperate to save his brother, charmed as many as he could to bring him back as his consort. Rather than suggesting that some of the worst atrocities being because of Miquella's desire for a consort- his helpful nature wants to save everyone, including Godwyn. It would’ve made more sense for the deathblight that ate away at Godwyn to do the same as Miquella, much how we all speculated that Mohg would corrupt Miquella. "Godwyn, Prince of Death" or "Godwyn, the Duskborne" would have been perfect for Miquella. In Miquella's journey, he finally managed to create bring Godwyn back, but the deathblight ate away at them both, maybe not leaving shells of their former selves- but rather both of them embrace natural death, or deathblight. Miquella's order is not only one of compassion, but one where death is properly restored. Is Radahn okay when you piece together the lore? Yes and no, it's not just about perspective but also about that it can only really make sense when you ignore the connections that are clearly Godwyn and Miquella (such as Castle Sol, that speaks of Godwyn and his Eclipse, holding a medallion to the haligtree). But perhaps more connections that weren't just retconned (like the Golden Epitath) or just added (like the battle of caelid) in the future.

I wanted the Scadutree Fragments work more like Beads in Sekiro, and less like Golden Seeds, and that more bosses and super enemies drop them. I also wanted them to be more. I also wanted St. Trina to be more active, even though I like that Miquella's denial of her makes it about how childish and unwilling to grow up he is. And I do think that there was something missing from Miquella during the final battle.

It may be because I have gone through the game a half dozen times, or due to the dlc just being big, but as much as I adore the expansion I cannot see myself putting in another playthrough to traverse the DLC. As cool as the intertwining map is, I feel as if it will be a chore to traverse in subsequent playthroughs.

While I actually understood why Radahn would be the final boss, and I actually enjoyed and understood Miquella's story before facing Radahn, there is no denying that the final boss should never be someone we have fought before, period. I think what they should have done is concluding the Miquella's story midgame,i.e. Having Radahn as a midgame boss, and focusing the second half of the DLC on Messmer. Other than that, my biggest criticism with Shadow of the Erdtree is the lack of weight I feel with many of the main bosses. Whenever I fought a base game boss I always get the feeling that I was fighting someone important. DLC bosses like the Dancing Lion, Rellana, Romina, or the Putrescent Knight are all solid fights themselves, but none of them has the presence & the impact that Maliketh, Godfrey, Rykard, (base game) Radahn ,etc. had. What hurts the most, in my opinion, is the lack of a cutscene, or even a name, for many of these bosses. This severely devoids them of a personality. Before fighting Godfrey for example, we got to hear the man talked, and we learnt what kind of a person he was, that he loved his son Morgott, and that he was an honorable warrior. Phase 2 cutscene adds even more, showing us deep down hes a babarian who lusted for combat, and that he believed only those with strength deserved to rule. The same can be said about other base game bosses. This makes me feel like I was fighting a real person, with a distinct personality. I cant say the same for, say, Rellana, or Romina, or the Putrescent Knight. As far as Im concern they are roadblocks with cool design & neat moveset.

Finally someone makes the proper critique of the last boss. And that no one cares if the lore actually ends up lining up, the problem is, no one finds this apparent, or pleasantly surprising, thus a first run playthrough is a failure at that point.

Many of my top games of all time are open world, and Elden Ring is one of them. But I think From's strengths just shine brighter in a more linear style. I am not against them re-visiting this style by any means. I really liked Shadow Keep and how it led to many different areas. I hope they build on that DS1 style design that they had at points in the expansion.

Why did Miquella ride Torrent? Or was it a different spirit horse?

Sunbro here. The scadutree system is pretty bad for co-op. The boost from blessings are massive, but the team gets scaled down to the host’s blessing level. At low blessing, the host is getting wiped by putrescent knight before I can land in the arena. But at a higher blessing level, the host might not even need help. I don’t like 7 versions of the same fight, where it’s a dice toss if the boss is getting nuked or our weapons are made of foam and everyone gets 2-shot.

I'll reserve judgement on whether it was a retcon or not until Miyazaki inevitably gets asked about it. I'm not saying I expected Godwin as the final boss, but given his weird faces show up in dungeons, along with Death Knights, I feel like there may have been something more planned. My biggest complaint is it's basically confirmed Melina and Messmer are siblings, and she has no new dialogue or input on the story.

My problem with the new leveling up system is that I personally took the words "Sekiro Like" by heart. I thought that by defeating bosses it would make me stronger, and not that I would NEED to search for them in (many times) obscure locations. I like to aimlessly explore the games that I play, when I NEED to explore to get stronger is no longer a pleasure, is a chore. Your suggestion of increasing the number of scadutree fragments can be easily applied by making bosses drop them (both main and side bosses).

My only MAJOR complaint about the DLC is how you can permanently fail a bunch of quests just by going near the Shadow Keep. You don't even have to kill any bosses to get there. There's nothing in the game to suggest there's any reason you shouldn't go exploring. Quite the opposite, the whole Scadutree Fragment thing ENCOURAGES exploration, which is what I was doing when this happened. Had to look it up to see what it meant. Turns out I just missed out on a bunch of stuff. That is some BS.

I dont think you can rate something a 9.9/10 when it has such obvious issues as you've mentioned. People need to be okay with rating a game a 7 or an 8

12:30 The problem with this is that we didn't need an explanation for what Malenia was doing in Caelid. It was the Shattering War. They were on opposite sides of said war. This was never some sort of mystery, we didn't need any justification beyond that. Like the rest of the final boss lore introduced in the DLC, the armor set is just another bit of text written explicitly to justify a forced and nonsensical plot twist.

Agree with all this. I wish, lore and story wise, it answered more questions but we all know Miyazaki is a "leave them wanting more" guy. I wanted more information about Miquella as well. And yes the final boss just didn't work at all. A head scratching moment for sure. I also think that putting Messmer on the cover and then he's just another story boss, I wanted more with him as well. But you know it's an excellent dlc when you start to get a little sad when you realize you're at the last legacy dungeon and that it's almost over.

I share your sentiment about the presentation of radahn. He is badass and I love the fight mechanically but I couldn’t help but feeling a little confused when meeting him there. Having already fought him in the base game also takes away some of the excitement as opposed to fighting someone new.

unpopular opinion, but I think the Promised Consort Radahn fight is fucking awesome. Seeing this fight really made me realize how jank the Starscourge Radahn fight was with him being on his horse the whole time. But we also get to see Radahn a beastly fighter not held back by the scarlet rot. All in all it's badass and feels EXTREMELY ganondorf in my opinion. I just wish that Radahn and Miquella were separate phases

I totally agree with the number of Scadutree Fragments. I want to replay the DLC with all my other characters, I do, but I also *dread* the thought of having to collect each and every fragment and spirit ash.

Couldn’t agree more about confusion and displeasure being the feeling on the final boss encounter. I wanted wonder, awe, and to be left thinking about it for years. Instead I was disappointed and got a lackluster explanation why that barely leaves room for speculation after the fact. Even though I enjoyed the fight itself, I just wanted something(or someone) else.

- No 6 player limit - No covenants - No continuation to Patches questline - Still maidenless

The end of the dlc felt very desolate for me. A short cutscene and then you're left in the barren arena. This is further compounded by the remaining NPCs all dropping dead (Moore potentially excepted). At the very least, they could have just left the items without the corpse. This would imply that they were still out there, and one could imagine they might return after your ascension to Elden Lord.

People saying Radhan is reused. Its literally a completely different fight.

I am unhappy with the lack of answers for many of the questions we had. The scooby doo system was a questionable idea at first and the implementation surprised me for how bad it was. The final boss is not satisfying as they prioritized spectacle over mechanical enjoyment. I hate that Radahn can unleash super poweful combos at the player and, even if you deal with it perfectly, your reward is a light attack with a rapier. Some of his attacks can't even be punished at all unless you are using things like raptors of the mist. What is the point of those explosions at the start of phase 2 and 3? There is no gameplay to them at all.

For me the worst thing about Radahn fight is you expect the final boss to be a strong representation of the themes and concepts of the game. I think this is a massive part of why Slave Knight Gael is so loved, his character perfectly embodies the struggle and perseverance you yourself have gone through all to get to this point at the end of time. Godwyn as a character would’ve been such a poetic final boss to Elden ring. A powerful, sacred and revered lord and is now an empty husk who is the physical manifestation of death infecting everything he touches. His presence in the dlc even would’ve added another element to Messmers character with him presumably being Marikas 1st child but in the land between Godwyn being considered the 1st, literally the golden child. In the grand scheme of Elden Ring lore Radahn is a cool side character and even if the lore can explain him being Miquellas consort that doesn’t change the fact that it feels like extremely misplaced fan service.

I am PRAYING that this isn’t what Elden Ring ends on, especially after Miyazaki said there are no plans for a sequel. If this truly is the one and only Elden Ring, ending the game with this would be kinda disappointing. There are way too many things that don’t have an answer to, and too many loose ends. This DLC, while answering plenty of questions, was mostly just a “here’s an end to on specific plot point”, that point being Miquella and his quest for godhood. What about the giant death plague under Lyndell? Who is Melina, and what’s with her eye during the frenzied flame ending? Who was the gloam eyed queen? So many unanswered questions, itd be so sad for them to end without anymore dlc, lore, or content.

As a "lore casual," I expect to understand nothing on a first playthrough, so the final boss being Radahn didn't phase me at all lol.

I thought the discovery of lore surrounding Radahn before the boss fight wasn't too bad actually. Ansbach told you someone snagged Mohg's corpse for nefarious things he needed a soul to inhabit the body. We know that the soul can't be Godwyn because it doesn't exist anymore. In the same building we can talk to Freyja and she tells us that Miquella is trying to revive Radahn's soul. Put the pieces together and we realize Miquella's plan is told directly to us. Sure we don't really know why Miquella is doing this until it's all over but it really gets your brain churning when you realize what he is doing.

I've said it elsewhere, but I think my main problem with the final boss is that they gave Miquella the power to make anyone do anything, which essentially removes all tension from every character moment in the game. Because we've had no demonstration of the limits of Miquella's control, everything can potentially be retroactively explained with 'Miquella made them do it'. I think that's why, for me, Radahn feels so out of place, even after hearing Ansbach's dialogue beforehand. It's not a twist to see Radahn paired with Miquella when we remember that Miquella can make anyone do anything. It could've just as easily been any capable warrior in Radahn's place. What I think might have been better is if we had some limits to Miquella's power so that it leaves us questioning whether Radahn actually wanted to go along with it and whether defeating Miquella is the 'right' thing to do. In this way, Miquella more accurately reflects the player as we more than likely share the same goal of ending the current order for something better. I think that then puts us in a similar position as the previous end bosses like Soul of Cinder and Gael, where it's a reflection of the player and their journey. I think thematically the game and the DLC seems to be making the point that becoming a god/leader always costs something of ourselves, no matter our intentions. As the player character, we kill a lot of beings to become stronger, even though our broader intentions may be positive. This is parallel to Miquella who wants a gentle rule, but in the process commits several atrocities like mind controlling people, and resurrecting Radahn in a humiliating way to Mohg for (possibly) conquest and war.

Playing the DLC after a few hours felt like a chore. Traversing this empty world was absolutely soul-sucking. Also Radahn stuff was an absolute disgrace, whoever was in charge of that writing needs to go back to school.

On progression: I think one huge, missed opportunity is a lack of upgrades for the Sacred Tear Flasks. Throughout the base game, the upgrades for these mostly keep up with the player as you level up your Vigor. They also do the thing you mentioned and have more materials than are required to hit the max number of flasks. But in the DLC, even though my Vigor and health continued to grow, my flasks never got any better. By the end of the DLC, I practically always had to use 2 flasks every time I got hit once... and that was even when I was using the new talisman that gives you 30% more healing per flask.

The blessing system feels like you regress to then regain your power from the base game and I hated it, I'd rather not feel like I'm weak with an endgame build. As well as the fragments themselves made me stop caring about anything that wasn't them and I ended up beating the dlc and not wanting to go back since it all just felt like a waste of time and in every other souls game I always kill all bosses (main bosses in elden rings case). The biggest issue is there is zero replayability with this system as I'm not going to run around for multiple hours to collect shit in order to fight bosses in a fair state, anyone who compares it to Sekiro has never played it more than once if at all since you don't ride around for hours at a time to collect prayer beads, since the game is much smaller, the detours don't feel bad at all and you don't need to get all of them to feel like the game is sufficiently balanced. The final boss being... spoilers ...Radahn is so disappointing it's not funny, personally I think his second phase is stupid difficult not remotely fun but if it had been a new character I'd be way happier even if it was the same mechanically. It felt like they reused a boss from the base game and made the dlc not feel worth it at all. Game mechanics-wise his second phase just feels like spam in general which isn't fun, we've had bosses that had similar mechanics but the way it was done with Radahn felt like just pure spamming of light to blind me and piss me off. It took me 272 deaths to beat him solo with no cheese and I might never fight him again because it's not fun to go through his first phase to then die 10 seconds after his nuke from everything he (once again) spams. Also probably the most disappointing ending to a boss fight ever, every single boss in DS1, 3 and maon bosses in base game ER feel satisfying after besting them but Radahn started and ended with disappointment. Overall the DLC at its best which is just Messmer is a 10/10 but at its worst is 4 or 5, the dlc is a 6 or 7 depending on my mood. Every DLC fromsoft has released before this is better and I hope they never make something like this again. I will be using cheat engine to give myself fragments if I ever play it again and will be killing Messmer then leaving, the best thing about the DLC is the new weapons that I will also cheat engine into my inventory so I can actually use them before the end of the base game. My expectation that a fromsoft DLC will be better than the base game is now completely false and I will have lower expectations from here on out.

I enjoyed the first half of the video, I won't be watching the second half yet as I haven't finished the DLC and have been enjoying being fully blind so far, I look forward to coming back

I'm honestly surprised you didn't complain that there weren't enough weapons in the new weapon categories. That's another big one I've seen thrown around, and one I agree with. There are only around 1-3 weapons for each new category, with perfumers getting like 5 for each status effect.

Not sure why they didn’t just actually do it like Sekiro and attach the fragments to boss fights including side and mini bosses. At least the reasons for clearing dungeons would’ve been universal.

1:54 agreed, I love all the fromsoft dlc's but think the original Dragon's Dogma had one of the best dlc progression systems I've played

I have many other complaints: - No underground/sky map 😢 - New weapon types, but only 3-4 of each - Throwing fire pots at furnaces with armored legs is not fun - Ensis castle was very bland. - Performance issues - The way to kill winter lanterns is dumb - I don't want to play the whole base game again to get everything in the DLC, because you have to play it twice to get everything. Let me NG+ the DLC separetely. Why is that so hard FromSoft? - Finger ruins were lame - Still many many many lore questions left unanswered. - Things in the trailers that are not in the game (the dancer fight is now in the mausoleum, for example) - Extremely unerwhelming ending. I cant even climb the freaking stairs to the divine gate to enjoy the view 😩 - No interesting torrent upgrades - No new great runes - Reused lion dance fight in the ruins - Probably more that im not remembering 🤔 9/10, I still enjoyed the DLC a great deal, but Old Hunters is still king.

What’s interesting is the item description on the double axes you get from the death knight. It explicitly states that Godwyns body is a surrogate, not his real dead body. So there is more to uncover for sure

Maybe the lore implication is Godwym was miquella’s preferred consort but his deathblight curse made that impossible so he settled for Radahn in maybe another sign of his wavering from his values to achieve his ultimate goal

I agree with everything you said ! There should be ATLEAST ONE item description that is about radahn and miquellas connection in the base game

One issue that is creeping up after replays is that there just aren't that many cool items to find in the open world. There are a lot of cookbooks for stuff that is just never going to be used. Finger consumables? Spirit consumables? 19 different greases. Hefty Pots are cool at least but we have like 8 variants or something. Some of these should have been fragments, arterea leaves, and rune arcs. There are hardly any rune arcs. I get that the elden ring was shattered after and we have like, some iris' that do the same thing but they're tied to quests and we get like 4 of them. Also, elden ring, can we please add an item filter when we're equipping items please.

I didn't think the final boss was stupid at all, I thought it was awesome. People need to learn to temper their expectations...

They should had the final fight with Ranni holding onto you like how Miquella is holding Radahn

Another minor thing to note about Scadutree fragments is that your Scadutree blessing doesn't reset upon entering a new game cycle, meaning that if you got to +20 or close to it in New Game, there's essentially no progression on future visits to the Shadow Realm. Regarding the final boss: Not only is it a character we've already fought, it's also conceptually and mechanically similar to the Twin Princes, so there are multiple layers contributing to the feeling of it being reused content, at least to my perception.

Why does Midra's Manse have three graces but also shortcuts looping back to each other? Why are there two nearly identical Finger Ruins on the map? There should have just been one. Why does the giant arch structure behind the Shadow Keep have nothing there to interact with but scadutree fragments? Why is half of the Specimen Storeroom inaccessible without going through the church district? This is the only legacy dungeon that does this. Why do they encourage exploration but approaching the Shadow Keep too soon automatically skips ahead nearly every NPC questline? Why do Furnace Golems take so fucking long to kill? Why are Cerulean Coast, Charo's Hidden Grave, The Hinterlands, Jagged Peak, and both Finger Ruins so empty? Why do so many of the DLC boss arenas have giant boxed in walls for the camera to get stuck on? On that note why do so many of these bosses push you around like your feet are on an air hockey table? This was never as much of an issue in the base game as it is in this DLC. Why would you even fight 90% of the enemies in the DLC if runes are drastically ineffective at making you stronger? You can run past almost anything. Why do some enemies and bosses have long combo attacks and can immediately cancel into another one without recovering their stamina? Why is the deflect tear a 5 minute flask buff and not a talisman or a great rune? Why is there a dev message in every smithing dungeon pointing out the blatantly obvious weak point of the golem enemies? Why is The Lamenter the only unique interesting boss to figure out in the DLC and every other boss is a standard combat encounter? Why are the Iris of Grace and Iris of Occultation quest items consumable at all? Why do so many bosses rush you at the fog gate immediately? Why do so many bosses have attacks that lunge forward and magnet their bodies to your location? Player positioning becomes meaningless. Why do I get the feeling this DLC was a lot more Tanimura than it was Miyazaki?

Before I even watch this. From a lore perspective this dlc answered NOTHING. None of the questions I had going in where answered. All the bosses where just random people that came out of nowhere with zero reference in the base game. I don't even has an issue with the final boss being what it was, but it still came out of nowhere. Gameplay wise it's mostly good, but they weren't lying when they said they pushed the limits of what people and tolerate. Biggest complaint is that 90% of the open world despite being very pretty has no new enemies or even a good variety of old enemies. It's just shadow villagers and death birds in almost every new region/biome and nothing else outside legacy dungeons.

I don't agree that the scadutree fragments should have been like the golden seeds. It irks me when a collectible stops having value before you've collected them all. It means any additional collectibles you find are worthless. In the base game, you can easily max your flask count by the end of Leyndell, making any seeds you find after that worthless. Your exploration is rewarded with nothing when you find a spare golden seed. "Dung ahead," as the community might say. The way the blessing curve works now, post 1.12.2, you hit a "soft cap" at blessing level 12. If you don't want to hunt down every fragment, you can rest easy once you reach blessing level 12. However, the fact that additional fragments still hold marginal value means finding additional fragments after hitting blessing level 12 is still rewarding. Finding a fragment remains rewarding right up until you've found them all. IMO that is much better design than having a bunch of spares that will be worthless to many players.

They could’ve had scadu smithing stones instead of regular ones.

1. Scadutree fragments should’ve been dropped by every boss IN ADDITION to having locations in the game world. Would give that feeling of reward after beating bosses, which is somewhat lessened because runes are less meaningful. Also would’ve added fragments at nearly every grace. The game feels artificially difficult for some people because the HP pools of the bosses are insanely high. 2. Godwyn would’ve made much more sense and would’ve been super surprising in a good way. 3. No new dialogue in the base game is super strange and gives off a feeling of lack of polish. Still a 9.5 out of 10 IMO

Fighting Radahn really felt like he has a phase 1 in Caelid and a phase 2 & 3 in the DLC.

On top of that, having Radahn AGAIN also wasted the reward space of the Remembrance token. We got -TWO- new variants of his sword and one new variant of his armour when instead it should've been completely Miquella themed. Instead we're still lacking armour sets themed fully around what characters like Marika, Miquella, St Trina and Godwyn would wear. That said, as someone who did the NPC quests, I did not walk away with any hint of foreshadowing that Radahn would be the final boss from them despite paying close attention. Instead I walked away with the impression that Freyja thought the end he met was how he would've wanted to go. The battle between us and his followers felt more like a satisfying final battle to be honest.

My biggest complaint, because I haven't fought the final boss enough to have a strong opinion on it yet, IS the scadutree fragment system. They essentially took away your power and the only way to get it back was to roam around finding 50 random shards and not playing the game which in vanilla is to kill sh*t and get stronger by doing so. I much preferred how they handled dlc progression in the past, which was what you were doing the whole game up to that point. I hope they never bring back a system like this again and either go back to what worked before or think of something better because this wasn't it.

But what about the fact that Godwyns soul is destroyed by the rune of death? Miquella couldnt possibly use his soul. Radahn actually does make the most sense here.

I think Miquella chose Radahn as his consort because of the sheer power potential. Yes, he liked him because of his strength and kindness, which was evidenced when he fought Malenia. It was a stalemate, both surviving, but all the worse for it. Radahn waited for Malenia to ready herself for combat before taking both swords and proudly anouncing himself. But I think the main thing that drew Miquella's attention was the fact that Radahn, in his prime, was able to halt the movement of the stars, and thus halt the fates of the gods. This power, if used in Miquella's favor, would make him the most powerful god to exist if he can simply control the gods however he wants to with the mere desire to make it happen, using Radahn to do so. Using Mohg's body, which has accursed blood, means that Radahn, now inhabiting that body, is no longer associated with The Greater Will or grace itself in any way, shape, or form, thus allowing Miquella to fully control him. It should be obvious to people who have stuck around the souls series that powerful and/or kind people never have a happy ending. This is no different. Godwyn failed to have his soul restored, because the eclipse at Sol could not occur, and I believe this has something to do with the seperation of The Golden Order and the Carian Royal Family, which is symbolic of the divide of the sun and moon. If this is in fact the reason that Miquella could not revive Godwyn, then this also confirms the timeline of the second war between Marika and Rennala, implying that she had planned the war to occur after Radagon had Radahn, Ranni, and Rykard. It is already theorized that Marika may have been involved in the Night of the Black Knives, and if so, then also assuming that the symbolic divide between sun and moon meant that an eclipse was literally impossible, then the death of Godwyn could have been a message to someone. We also think that Miquella and Malenia were born and had close connections to Godwyn when he still lived, implying that Godwyn's death, following this logic, could have been the spark that lead to Miquella's later actions. If he knew that Marika was involved with his brother's death, then this would explain why for one, he planted the Haligtree as a safeplace for those unwanted by the Erdtree, viewing Marika in a harmful and naive light, at least at first, and secondly, why he would want to become a god. I believe that in all the stages of Godwyn's life, including his now soul-less state, Godwyn has continued to be a great inspiration and guide to Miquella and his ideals, and may have even been how Saint Trina came to be if Miquella manifested the idea of death being a sort of eternal slumber into a physical representaion of such an idea. Seeing that even in death, Godwyn's Death Blight has continued to be a powerful force in the world, may have shown him that even husks can still harbor immense power, which also ties into the Two Fingers and the Elden Beast similarly. It is even stated by Count Ymir that Miquella saw the world for what it truly is, and keep in mind that you meet Count Ymir after Miquella's spell has worn off as his Great Rune breaks before you even reach him, so Count Ymir's words are not by way of enchantment, but out of wisdom and knowledge of what kind of person Miquella is. Now, here's the real unhinged stuff. Godwyn's death, and life in undeath, is seen by almost everyone as a prison. That his fate is a torture unlike any other. Here, i feel it is important to state that Miquella may not have wanted to bring back Godwyn's soul to allow Godwyn a second chance, like Fia does, but instead to kill him. In the description of the Golden Epitaph, Miquella states that he wants Godwyn to die a true death, not to be reborn. This rules out any idea that Miquella wanted Godwyn as his consort, as he didn't even want Godwyn to truly come back to life. Here, with all of the symbolism of imprisonment, we also see Marika, literally imprisoned within the Erdtree as punishment for The Shattering. Godhood was the reason Marika is stuck helplessly in the Erdtree on behalf of The Greater Will. I understand that this could be entirely wrong, and I'm not saying I am 100% sure about this idea, in fact I'm pretty sure it's wrong, but here it is anyway, because this is what connected to me. Miquella could be trying to replace The Greater Will so that Marika is no longer imprisoned within the Erdtree, allowing him to also use Marika for his own gain since she would no longer be connected to The Greater Will, and using Radahn's power to halt the stars, he could control her fate as well as anyone else's. There is a reason Malenia's armor claims Miquella to be the most fearsome Empyrian of them all, and I believe this is why. For all we know, Malenia could have been under his spell too, which would explain why she is so overly obsessed with his return, and why the Battle of Aeonia seems like a dream to her, saying "I dreamt for so long... My flesh was dull gold, and my blood, rotted. Corpse after corpse left in my wake, as I awaited... his return." It is not that the rot drove her insane and she couldn't recall the fight, it was that Miquella was so strongly influencing her that her life was never her own to begin with. Indeed, it makes sense that he learned so well how to compel affection, since he was surrounded by people who guided him through love of their own, such as Godwyn, Marika, and Radagon. He had a sister who was the first to rely on him, and realizing the power of love through his own family, he was able to see everything both golden and rotten about the very thing humanity so endlessly obsesses over, and surely if the gods found interest in humankind, they were no less resistant to the very same seduction. It was the fact that he was ever loved to begin with that made him, ironically, the least capable of holding onto it, as he eventually throws away his heart, his love, his foresight, his will, and even his other self, all in the search for power above all else. At the point we find him, clutching to Radahn, he is no less a husk of himself than Godwyn is. Miquella did genuinely want to make the world a gentle place and though the end kind of justifies the means, it would be at the cost of the natural world, which is what followers of the Crucible have been fighting for. Even with this in mind, who is to say how much of this once pure desire is truly left if he has since thrown away everything that made him pure? What if he is under his own spell, the shell of the god he could have been being dragged along by dreams so haphazardly realized and put into practice? The moral of the story is: Be careful what you wish for. Saint Trina realized his mistake, that in becoming a god, he would imprison himself in the process, giving up everything he ever was for a goal far too desperate to ever really mean anything to begin with. Thus, she wants us to kill Miquella. So that he can die a true death, and return to his roots, embracing a slumber so eternal, so exquisite, that he need not wish for anything else. That he need not ruin himself any further. Finally, we have proof of our goal here in the DLC, what all of this truly achieves, and of course, it's our boy Ansbach who tells us. If he dies in the fight against Radahn, he wishes us to be a lord of men, not a lord of gods. This was the folly all along, that gods were ever placed at a higher importance than the things chosen to serve them in the first place. Marika serves an outer god. Miquella serves himself, in the process of becoming a god, with Radahn as the imprisoned lord to Miquella's rule. Ranni is similar, only that we become entitled to servicing her. Yet she still enacts the will of the cosmos, vying for cosmic knowledge and wisom above all else, no better than Marika or Miquella. We can become the lord of the Frenzied Flame, restarting the world and its natural evolution to begin again, however many years later, which as dark as the means are, perhaps knowing that all of our other options will further ruin the natural world anyway, perhaps this is the best choice. After all, it is a trope in the souls-series that the darkest option, seemingly the worst at first glance, turns out to actually be the best for the natural world. We first thought Marika to be the equivalent to Gwyn, but with all of this in mind, Miquella is actually a closer representation. Promising prosperity through placing all faith in his age, he ruins what the world could have been, what it was ever meant to be, cursing anything from the world before in an unending cycle of prosecution if they do not protect his image. This is what Leda represents, as she openly hunts down anyone who dares oppose Miquella's promised age of compassion. She is essentially Ciaran from DS1, her blade swaying in the winds of unwavering loyalty to an age she would never see spread the prosperity she, and everyone else who fought beside her was promised. (Sorry for any typos, I typed this out on mobile)

I like the twist that it’s actually Radhan; throughout the whole game we learn about Miquella learning and experimenting via the bewitching branches, the minor erdtrees, the haligtree, the Golden Order itself, then in the DLC we learn of Miquella’s darker side in that he is a master manipulator who steered everything towards his goal. I believe Miquella was involved with the Night of the Black Knives to test out death in a single form (bearing in mind he grew up without death) and also to take out the favoured child and rival of the Golden Lineage who would probably have been in line to take over from Marika. As an extra bonus he also removes Ranni as a rival without souring the relationship. He takes advantage of the Shattering War to kill Radhan so he can bring him back all compelled, but that fails so back we go to Godwyn as a useful test subject, and then we include Malenia because now Miquella needs to deal with rot in earnest. The sword was made for Godwyn but the prayer might well have been for Radhan. It shows Miquella’s character as a spoiled brat who can’t take no for an answer, but also with the might and power of divinity behind him so his temper tantrum lasted millenia and got a lot of people killed.

Lore wise for final boss, my thinking is that Miquella did want to revive Godwyn like we see in Golden Epitaph and Castle Sol, but ultimately could not. Makes sense he would choose Radahn but it comes out of nowhere in this DLC with no hint of Miquella and Radahn interaction in main game

I get why people don't entirely like the scadutree fragment system, but I personally don't mind it. Most of them aren't hard to find and you find them naturally as you explore. Maybe they could use a bit of further tuning, but overall it's a decent system IMO. As for the final boss, I don't see that much wrong with it. Most people just dislike it because it's difficult, but I don't think that makes it inherently bad. Maybe some of his attacks/combos could use a bit of tweaking though.

I mean , Godwyn soul is gone from the half of destined death if you read the lore.

Having had some time to think about the Radahn reveal. I do agree that it wasn't foreshadowed well in the base game. But I also think that we screwed up royally by hyperfixating on Godwyn. And I do mean "we" as I am guilty of this too. In hindsight, the clues that none of this had anything to do with Godwyn in particular were glaring and obvious. I think we should have been viewing Godwyn as an experiment. A way for Miquella to test out resurrection techniques which ultimately failed. Golden Epitaph tells us exactly what it is. It is an epitaph. A prayer for one who is beyond reach. Miquella creating an epitaph and sealing it in a Hero's Grave just outside the capitol was telling us that Miquella had given up on Godwyn completely. That he was moving on to other pursuits. This is backed up by what we encounter in the DLC. And this is where I land on the whole, "Was Radahn controlled?" issue. I think all signs point to yes. Radahn made it impossible for Miquella to become a god and take Radahn as consort. That is in part why Malenia and, as we know now, Miquella went to Caelid. Miquella was basically there to threaten Radahn into becoming his consort and when Radahn continued to refuse, Miquella attacked with his army. Then it began to appear as though Miquella was losing, so he sent in Malenia and told her to nuke the place. If Radahn wasn't going to join him willingly, he had other means. This I think is the main villain arc for Miquella as well as the tragedy for Radahn. By all accounts Radahn was a decent dude. I suspect that he refused Miquella, at least in part, in order to help him. Miquella knows that becoming a god will only be bad for him, his other half tells us as much. Radahn almost certainly did too, but Miquella wants Radahn. He has a child-like fixation on him. To the point that his idealized Radahn isn't the older man who fought Malenia. No, the Radahn Miquella brings back is young. Probably the same age at which Miquella first asked him to be his consort. A youthful consort for an eternally youthful god. And when Radahn does come back, what do we see? His eyes are a brilliant gold. We're shown these occluded eyes throughout the DLC, it's kind of a major thematic element that is returned to multiple times. Seeing those glowing peepers on Radahn tells me that he isn't in control of himself. He's like every other puppet we've seen, silent and pliant to the will of his master.

I personally loved the arena and entrance of radahn as the final boss, it feeling like an epic final bout at the heavenly skies and a warriors presence, but that all came out of nowhere, with little reason or setup as to why this deserves such a glorious presentation, the story finale climax doesnt make the player feel anything satiating of the tale they just journeyed

I think the lack of feeling of progression is still a major problem for me. Leveling feels more or less useless once you have all the stats you need for the build you're using, which you'll probably already be done with by the time you enter the DLC. But at the same time, they just give you a shit ton of rune items and runes from bosses as well as items that are completely useless like smithing stone ones, which I can just buy for like 200 runes from the Roundtable. Like it seriously feels like a problem sometimes. "What's over here? Oh, a Ghost Glovewart [3]" like that never feels good.

My biggest personal disappointment with the DLC is how few there are of the new weapon classes. I mean, this was a BIG selling point that was emphasized in the promotion. And yet, there are only three great katana, light greatswords and backhand blades. Beast claws, dueling shields and unarmed only have two. And there is one true throwing blade, the rest being part of other weapon types given some throwing ability. The only new class that offers a decent number of options are the Perfumer Bottles. What makes this weirder is that the DLC introduces _a lot_ of new weapons for the old classes - more than I would have expected compared to any Dark Souls DLC: There are five new colossal weapons, five fist weapons and technically five straight swords. Axes, curved swords and great spears get four each. I just sorta expected them to prioritize the new weapon types. It also annoyed me how weak most of the armors are, especially considering how high level you're expected to be going in. But then, the base game sorta had this problem as well. (It will never make sense to me that Godfrey's set is weaker than the Godrick Soldier armor.) As for Radahn, that did seem odd at first, but I don't mind terribly. There _is_ some foreshadowing, if you talk to Ansbach and Freyja, but I'm guessing they kept it light so as to not spoil the reveal too much. Maybe not the best call, but I think I see what they were going for. Now, it wouldn't surprise me _at all_ if FromSoft had originally planned to use Godwyn but changed it to Radahn because they thought it would be more of a crowd pleaser. But then again, that really kinda seems like the sort of thing Miquella would do as well. I figure he probably wanted Godwyn originally, but the Night of Black Knives screwed that up and Miquella's attempt to fix it failed, so he switched to Radahn - even calling him by the exact same "Lord Brother" moniker. Miquella really strikes me as the type of guy who will immediately change gears if a master plan fails and then act like Plan B is what he always going for. I don't think he really cared whether or not he went with Godwyn or Radahn, because he's a manipulative sociopath and people are just tools to him. He just needed a big powerful dude to be his consort. Godwyn would have been ideal, but Radahn would do just fine. So it sorta makes sense that it seems a bit random and out of nowhere, because it was basically Miquella improvising. At least, that's my headcanon for now.

You guys should really understand that Godwyn has his own ending in the base game already, there's no way to bring him back unless doing time traveling stuff. Also, all Miquella did is trying to make him die correctly, not a single word is about revive, he even made swords to kill those living deaths. You can see his gentle world doesn't really include the death prince.

If Radahn was a secret optional boss like Malenia people would be extremely hyped but as a final boss it just feel so disappoiting that the final boss is a guy we already fought, yes this is him in his prime but it is still Radahn. I also really hate his second phase i think its really bad because you can't see anything most of the time since you're constantly getting flashbanged by the rays of light.

My biggest issue is where is where are the oracle envoy when Miq is making his rise to godhood?

I feel like using the body that was in the cocoon as a way of reviving Godwyn would have made for a more full circle final boss of the dlc.

The thing is Godwyn probably was Miquella first choice but seeing the way that he died Miquella couldn’t get him even if he wanted too so he set his eyes on Radahn who was also a good candidate for a lord just as Godwyn would’ve been

He didn't tell us to downvote and unsubscribe :(

A second currency would have solved the issue. Currency, just like runes that only work in the dlc.

Very much a good sign that you only have 2 main criticisms for a 13 minute video. Shows how almost perfect the DLC is!

So instead of giving us a fight with someone like Godwyn who we haven't seen at all and there's tons of mystery surrounding him. The Demigod who everyone loved and respected so much that he was the first target to be killed by the black knives. They gave us a rehash of a boss that we've already fought before? Color me not suprised after the Godefroy incident.

The biggest plot twist of the DLC is the community learning to pronounce scadutree correctly

I didn't feel Radahn's presence throughout the entire DLC like I did with other bosses. To me, Messmer is still the best boss of the DLC. His presence could be felt across the shadow realm with how almost everything in the environment links back to Messmer. A bit of me felt Radahn was there to be a surprise factor. Even though there were hints from the NPC's lines, I didn't get an "Ah ha" moment when he showed up. Perhaps it would have been too obvious if Messmer was the last boss. But again, like you said, the presentation was what made the lord of cinders such a great boss and gave you that "ah ha" moment. Even Midra was well presented, and he's an optional boss. The atmosphere and build-up when you traverse the Abyssal Woods to the mansion set the right tone for Midra. I can't really think of a way to make the Radahn's fight better except maybe as you traverse Enir-Ilim you see the stars or if we witness the cutscene of Mohg's body being transmutated into Radahn. Something to make him feel more present.

I think the scadutree fragments are a little too well hidden for how integral they are to the DLC. They should be behind minibosses like Sekiro's beads, so they are both easier to find and get you some sense of accomplishment. Like the winged guy at torture castle or the lonely knight or even Messmer's invaders. That way you explore the different noticeable points of the map and get stronger but you don't need to check every fing corner. Like the first one, instead of it being in a church behind a black knight just have the black knight drop them.

My main negative thought is that the navigation bordered on frustrating and tedious. I felt I was exploring a reasonable amount but didn’t find the very specific ways to the Cerulean Coast or the Scadu Base.