How Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree is the Peak of Souls World Design 

If you want to hear me criticize the rewards, encounters, and progression of the world, check out my other video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OfWzZww3uBI.html Mistakes were made on which version of this video went public, so pelase imagine that around the 8 minute mark I show the map of Castle Front and the path north, the two paths south, and of course, the entrance to Castle Ensis. My apologies, and thank you so much for watching. Also, have a great day and remember to subscribe!

FromSoft does signpointing too, it's simply not as obvious/obnoxious as in other games. They often use candles, lights, or other things that blend in the environment and don't stand out too much, but catch your eye enough to indicate a ledge or something similar. Subtlety is the key.

Just wanted to say, Shadow Keep was such a blast to explore despite the fire knights being a huge pain. I walked in there for hours and I was never bored. There's so many secrets. The hidden wall leading to the watering hole with the furnace golems was very exciting. Plus, the massive storehouse and sick bay cleverly adds characterization for Messmer. Probably my favorite level design in all of Elden Ring. I also thought that hole in Moorth Ruins leading to Bonny Village was fantastic. Finding the cliff that gets you to Cerulean Coast through multiplayer messages was also very memorable, even though it was a little sparse along the way in hindsight.

>pitches it as good >explains how it’s bad Great stuff

I love the map because I was playing along a friend and we managed to get to the same places but completely backwards, it is amazing.

Even if the difficulty and gameplay can be discussed as being flawed, the world design of ER SotE is absolutely and undoubtedly stunning.

I tried to get into Dark Souls, both 1 and 3, but the setting and lore just didn't do it for me like Bloodborne, Elden Ring and Sekiro. Playing Shadow of the Erdtree made me feel like I got to experience that classic level design of Dark Souls. The Shadowrealm feels like one giant dungeon layered with smaller dungeons which all flow in and out of one another. The only area in the base game that had equivalent interactive verticality for me was the Leyndell to Subterranean to Deeproot Depths path, which blew my mind, especially when you use the waygate that brings you right back to the top, like an endless loop. Shadow Keep especially is such an achievement that links so many areas together and combines the best parts of Haligtree, Stormveil and Farum. For anyone who wants a nice resting point for their Tarnished, there's a cliffside south of the Church of Crusade, in between Castle Ensis and the Shadow Keep that has by far the best view of the whole map. Panning left to right you can see Jagged Peak, Castle Ensis, Supressing Pillar, Gravesight Plain, Belurat/Enir-Ilim, Ruins of Rauh, the Scadutree & Shadow Keep, the Moon and then the Cathedral of Manus Metyr. I put my Tarnished to sleep there instead of closing the game sometimes. I was hyped for this DLC and I thought it couldn't exceed my expectations, but it really has and just makes me appreciate Elden Ring and FromSoftware even more. I still have a special fondness for Bloodborne but Elden Ring and SOTE is their grand masterpiece. I just hope they keep pushing into alternatives like Sekiro and try new versions of these core concepts.

It IS, I noticed in the base game how their level design affected some areas of the world more than others, but the dlc got it completely. It’s totally metroidvanian and its style evoking autumn and even Halloween just makes it my favorite open world I’ve ever explored.

If Dark Souls is From's version of Ico, then Shadow of the Erd Tree is their version of Shadow of the Colossus.

Miyazaki didn't lie - people just misunderstood what he wanted to say there about the size and scale of the DLC. Surface area is not the same as content density. And the area of Limgrave, for example, is larger than all of DS3. He wanted to express "it's gonna be really big", and many people thought "what? that small?".

One thing I loved is the grab attack that the final boss uses. It basically made me understand that character and his effect on everyone else in a way no hours of lore videos could

Being a huge fan of the older Dark Souls titles the world design of Elden Ring never clicked with me. Shadow of the Erdtree changed things completely for me though. It felt more like DS1 to me since it is really great at using verticality and made exploring way more interesting and fun for me. I agree with you!

Abyssal woods is not good tho tbh. I feel like there were quite a few areas that felt pretty barren in the dlc

Ooooh. Excited for when the retrospective drops Mugthief 😀

The way you described how the map obsures the relative elevations of places and how this shapes ones exploration and perception of the world really resonated with me. I think this is one of the most unique, innovative and enjoyable experiences that SotE offers.

The environmental art for the DLC alone makes Elden Ring Game of the Decade.

I wish they could achieve this without me spending six hours staring over the edge of cliffs.

Honestly the potentiality of mods is so crazy aswell. With huge mods like the convergence mod, I'm certain they'll come and fill out area's that seem a little empty like the abyssal woods and the finger ruins. This dlc experience will only get better with time, just like the base game has.

Others explore and complain about the game not having enough items, I explore so I can go and fight the new bosses. We are not the same

If you have played (maybe even platinumed) various open world action RPG, eg The Witcher 3, Skyrim, Dragon Age, etc Elden Ring is just as excellent but with its unique ambience (history/past-orientation, gloomy dark, grand art nouveau and art deco designs etc). But if your only reference is the past Souls series, well....

The map design has some serious appeal. But it would have landed much stronger if it was in a whole new game. Elden ring's base game just did not leave much room for new loot to exist and lacking this motives and new spells/weapons to find in similar abundance to the base game was a huge detriment to enjoying the map. This dlc should give fromsoft a lot to graze on but it's gonna be years before we see another game come out where we can see what's changed and refined. I have to disagree. Not knowing everything a game has is my preference. Each time more underground appeared in the base game I was delighted. In the dlc it felt more like a check list with a lot of running around to find the way to what I already knew about. Preferences will differ and a blend of both would be best.

Great video. The world felt like they applied DS1's level design to the open world. It was a massive step up from the base game in my opinion. However I disagreed with pretty much everything in your other video about rewards/encounters etc. I thought the bosses were varied, satisfying, and appropriately tuned. The only issue with the DLC imo is that it's tedious or requires a guide to figure out which fragments you may have missed by the time you're at the end game. This has been partially improved by the recent patch which frontloads the scaling, but could be totally remedied if they just added a few more potguys so there were more fragments than you needed to max out, especially in late game areas.

I’m on job and I still haven’t watched the video but you’re right!

Excellent content bro. Thank you

Amazing video!!

I was waiting for someone to talk about it. The base game itself was so dense and there was so much hidden stuff. The DLC just blew my mind as to what can be hidden, although lore wise I do have a few things which I don't like. But the world is a gem!

I can't wait to actually watch this video after eventually getting the dlc and completing it 100%

FINALLY someone that uses Godfreys Crown in combination with the Banished Knight Armor (not altered!). 10/10 fashion dear sir

I really want to finally get the expansion and give it a go but I am a bit hesitant. I play ton of RPGs but my experience with soulslike RPGs is kinda limited.I finished the base game with a tanky character though I explored every inch of the map and had to summon other players for specific bosses in order to make it. Do you think I should give it a try or will I find it too hard ? Thanks !

what is the second Metroidvania you shown just after Blasphemous please ?

Do u use any reshade or something ? Colors look amazing in that videos mine are not that good in my game :(

yeah those massive areas with nothing in them where you hold forward on the stick for 30 minutes straight in a purely time wasting exercise are absolute peak, we've come so far since the meticulous world construction of dark souls 1 and the mass gamer audience definitely doesn't have scarlet rot in their brains

Lol I just watched a video claiming that this is the worst fromsoft DLC. Wild.

Anyone knows what's the game shown after the 5 minute mark? It looks cool asf.

shadow keep alone is one of the most impressive things from software has done, period

I love how the map is structured.... but it's so empty, they could of easily made everything more linear. Apart from that and the 2/all bosses being actual good bosses (Midra and Relanna) than yeah £30 well spent, all the weapons, armour, art design is great. My favourite area in this dlc, is probably the Abyssal Woods, it's big, spooky, and they mechanic where you can't use Torrent is really neat. Oh and those aged untouchables, are a really bloodborne esk enemy design, the boss of the area Midra, has such a great flow to it, and his boss theme is so eerie and bloodborne esk.

After exploring this 40$ dlc I look back at tears of the kingdom, a full price game a bit differently

just call me rapid ;) glad to be here! Less glad that I now feel obliged to play this game sometime soon. pfff

Dude, FromSoft doesn’t make Souls-likes. FromSoft makes “Souls games.” All other Devs from the genre make “souls-likes.” Should be rather self-evident, don’t you think?

Yes, I believe the abyss with 500 madness rats and goats sprinkled around and finger ruins with literally nothing in them is the PEAK! (The peak but I slipped and fell off the cliff)

The world and visuals are very pretty but the content is very sparse and repetitive. A lot of areas are large and beautiful but once you get past all the decorations they are just filler with a few rewards and recycled enemies and bosses from the base game. The size of a game isn't worth it's lack of content.

What's with the curtains in the sky

I think ppl 4get thst this is a Expansion to the actual game, & not the game itself... its end game optional content

Elden ring imo is peak. There’ll still be amazing souls games to come but imo it’s gonna be hard to top and that’s fine to me

Needed this after that pathetic excuse for a ‘critique’ from feeble king

HEY FROMSOFT......thank you

Keep comparing Eldin Ring and ToTk! I do it all the time and get sideways looks! They are very different but oh so the same in the ways that count. I “feel” the same when I’m playing them. I’m immersed, I’m curious, I’m interested, I’m challenged. Zelda may spoon feed the lore and narrative a little more but the open world is largely hands off. The only thing both games are missing are the amazing random encounters that Rockstar has gotten so good at. I feel like Eldin Ring, ToTK, and GTA 5 are the best open world games of the last 10ish years with honorable mentions to RDR2 and BotW.

The story was not as handholdy as people think.

the world design is what I would imagine the world design of Dark Souls 1 when "blown up" to an open world would be like - the base game was close, but SOTE nailed it

Legacy Dungeons are peak, the rest of the open world is just too big. I really love open worlds but I prefer the design of DS1 or Bloodborne.

Amazing video and self reflection on the game. I rushed it and didn’t take the time to appreciate a lot of these amazing things’!

i love how the map is structured and how diffferent the areas look. what i hate is once you get there you realize how empty they are. this dlc smells unfinished. like for example in the trailer you could see the player riding torrent in the abyssal woods. so what happened? i presume they coudlnt finish what they had in mind there, scrapped it and made it a stealth section. cerulean coast too is gorgeous but theres nothing to do there besides the fissure. jagged peak has amazing buildup towards bayle but the area itself is just reused enemies. rauh looks gorgeous but besides some enemies inside the ruins, the map itslef is also empty with nothing to do. the only ones that got love were gravesite and scadu altus. Dark Souls had this amazing interonnected world but still has every area being unqiue with unique content, unique enemies, bosses and loot. What im trying to say is that yes you can see the areas before hand like in ds1, yes you are excited on how to get there, yes you get surprised how you got there, but whats missing is the area itslef being good. they had 2 years. dark souls was developed in around 2 years. this is dissapointing

Planet Zeebs

Its good. But far from Peak. Items you collect kinda lack. Many big spaces that are empty or look unfinished. Boss design cool, but sometimes it seems like we need it 1 more button to press. 2many cookbooks and stones. We alrdy have all. The stones. Beside the dificulty of boss design, i”d vote 8/10. Base game 9.5/10 Blooeborne dlc was peak

Idk if its just me either but i felt compared to the main game most of the legacy dungeons were kinda small an lame (excluding shadowkeep which could be there best yet) really not a dlc hater, loved every secont of it. But it wasn't perfect an can be impoved upon in the future

I have to be real though this fully wasnt something i figured out on my own, the og game used exploration incredibly well especially when it comes to getting stronger, but in dhadow of the erdtree their is a linear progression of character strength, trying to imitate the nonlinear gaining of power that was the focal point in the og game, thts where it fails not miserably, but a failure nonetheless.

The Abyssal Woods actually follows many of the rules of horror games. It takes away your power. You can’t use your power and your ability to fight something is stripped away from you. Sure, the community has found a way to fight the Winter Lantern things since launch, but still. That first run through in that zone was intense. It’s so good.

All the people whining that it's too difficult and obtuse to get to all the new areas in the dlc since they can't easily find the route there like a baby, I have this to say: SKILL ISSUE LMAO

To me the open world was the weakest part of the dlc. I arrived in the dlc at night so the only thing I could clearly see in the distance was the shadow tree. Unlike the base game I got no urge to explore after having entered, I could only see a few feet ahead of me. Then we come to the lack of interesting rewards. It felt way too unrewarding to explore. I got up to 12 scadublessings and then killed the last boss and had no desire to explore further. The dungeons were great though!

cant wait for the fromsoft retrospective ! great vids! subd👍

They knocked it out of the park imo. Level design is amazing. My favorite part of the dlc is the overall darker more ominous vibes i get from the dlc. 💚

Anybody ever tell you that you're voice is lovely? Also you remind me a ton of Noah Caldwell Gervais and that guy is also fucking rad so keep up the good work fam. #galaxybraintakegang

The entire dlc, while stunning visually, feels very uninspired mechancially and disconnected from the base game. Nothing you do interacts with or has any impact on the world you return to. There are no different endings or dialogues about your actions. Rellana derserved more, we only find out how prominent of a character she is, literally Renalla's sister, after her defeat. And it would have been so cool if characters like Melina could comment on Messmer and Miquella if she was still with your tarnished. It also feels like some of the bosses are just there as shameless homages like Romina, with no real reason to be there other than 'oh the players are gonna love this reference.'

The layered map is very difficult for me to navigate. I spent hours trying to find the North most map piece. More than once I got frustrated, and just looked up on RU-vid how to get to areas. A little annoying. Also I didn't realize the NPCs guide you 😅 I didn't read their notes. I play for the combat mechanics so I didn't even know Leda and her gang had "quests".

Dude, your microphone is far too sensitive. My head vibrates when I listen to this with earbuds in.

Nope.

Yeah bunch of empty areas full of a couple smithing stones... Amzing 10/10

My biggest complaint regarding optional content in Elden Ring in particular is that the game is huge, and just getting to the DLC can take 30+ hours of gameplay... and then if you want to get there again in ng+ it can take much more, so having missable content becomes much more anxiety inducing, and might push you to go see a guide. I think missable content works best on games that are more short and linear, like the souls games. Elden Ring is way too big for this approach in my opinion. In fact, I think the open world formula really doesn't suit FromSoft style, linear games is what allows them to express all of their potential at best in my opinion. I loved Elden Ring but I firmly believe it could've been even better had it been pseudo linear like Dark Souls, Sekiro or Bloodborne.

I really liked this dlc for one special reason. I don't needed Google to find stuff. I also don't needed any build guide for ne it was evident that I need resistance to beat the dlc.

An open world that requires attention to navigate is exactly the kind of open world I want

I have multiple issues with the dlc that makes it a little worse than the base game for me 1/The first being recycled enemies and bosses especially in cerulean coast that area feels empty simply because there's nothing new all recycled enemies, 2/Finger ruins are just a waste of space and time and they only serve as a part of quest for a boss which is basically tedious 3/Jagged peak is just spectacle with nothing else in it that's half of the map being a useless space that only exist for a rememberance boss 4/ issue I have is the Exploration legacy dungeons, aside from shadow keep all legacy are just small linear path with barely any branching path or interconnectivity which is a huge step down from the base game 5/ lastly is exploration doesn't feel nearly as rewarding as the base game which is to be expected given its endgame content but I thought fromsoftware can pull off something interesting for it The dlc still great for me but it's an 8.5/10 to me which lower than the base game and other souls titles it's definitely not like the other dlcs that improve on the base game

I agree with this take. This is the most consistantly high quality level/world design that From has ever hit, with its only competition being Bloodborne. First half of DS1 was a little better I think but the second half invalidates it entirely lol. Something I don't think is talked about enough is how less frequent graces are (especially in the open world sections) and how that really helped with design. With the brutally hard normal enemies it feels like much more like a test of endurance then the base game did. I cant think of a time in the base game where I was out of flasks and worried about when the next grace would be, where as it happened tons of time in the DLC. The graces that they did have were better placed too, having a bonfire in front of every boss is really something they should have been doing since DS2.

Don't get me wrong it's great for what it is but I think Dark Souls still did it better.

I agree with almost all of your points, world of shadow is great but I did not feel rewarded when I finally found my way into Shaman Village and Frenzy canyon. It felt like a random discovery when desperately clawing at the walls for tiniest of clues. And when that view or the new area is taunting you with that one undiscovered bit of map or a view of new area. Playing this DLC blind was great aside from these two throns in my side.

I, too, love crossing great heaps of barren land with no purpose or anything to find. The PEAK of game design!!!!

i cant deny the world of The land of shadows is beautiful, but how you get to some of these places is down right dumb. now i havent explored the whole map yet but going to the unte ruin is so dumb, why would you have a ladder hidden and surrounded by multple enemies that poison you, located by a huge bridge with no heads up what so ever. i assumed youd need to go to a cave like the town tower ruin but going through a castle for a hidden ladder is stupendous even lore wise.

It's really not tho 😂

Game of the year… easily. (If for no other reason to broadcast to developers that gamers would like more of these elements) “A puzzle like map” is really my favorite part of the game

I disagree. If everyone is special, then no one is. The same goes for if every area is a convoluted and unnecessary hard to find and get to it becomes annoying. Couple that with the lazy open world bosses and reskinned mobs makes the DLC open world is an L in my opinion. I mean you go through the hassle of getting a gesture to unlock an area and you get 2 items and fight two tree sentinels in an area the size of stormveil castle? If that is peak Fromsoft I guess I can feel confident skipping their next title.

Shadow of the Erdtree is the pinnacle of Open World level design. What they achieved in the first Dark Souls game (which is the best level design of all time), they kinda did it in an open world setting. It is amazing also how they even blurred the lines between Dungeon and Open World (especially in the Rauh Ruins). And since you mentioned Ash Lake, you reminded me back in 2012 that i was playing DS blind (there was not much to guide you anyway), i accidentally found the great hollow, became cursed, had no purging stone and was not a good player enough to survive with half health, so was completely stack at Blightown. Good times.... Now Miyazaki said 2 things: 1) That the DLC is about the size of Limgrave. 2) It is as hard as the late game areas. People said both were lies, while both are actually true. About the size, it is how you view the areas. For me me there are 4 distinct open world areas in the base game, defined by similar colour palette, similar vegetation, similar enemies and similar Atmosphere. These are: 1) Limgrave/Weeping Peninsula/Liurnia (yes all three) 2)Caelid/Dragon Baroow 3)Altus Plateau/Mount Gelmir 4) Mountaintops of the Giants/Snowfields If you view it like that the DLC is actually the size of the extended Limgrave and probably even smaller. As for the difficulty, when you find enough Scadutree Fragments, i would argue (with the exception of a few bosses), that it is probably easier than, say, Haligtree, for the most part. Now as AMAZING the world design is, as GREAT the new items are etc... the bosses are not fun WITH THE BASIC SOULS FORMULA. They are manageable, but NOT FUN. Their moveset is so frantic and extended that it needs a combat system closer to Sekiro to feel FUN.

I think the only thing that holds the world and level design back is fast travel and too many graces. Which removes that feeling you got in Souls where you FINALLY finds a shortcut back to the bonfire or to a previous area (or more specifically Fire Link Shrine). Also the map kinda removes some mystery as well because you can see where you are and where you're headed too, but I also understand why it's needed.

Bro, Shadow of the Erdtree was the most empty and boring of all the souls maps. For me all that it had was the beautiful art style.

The world is beautiful, and the verticality looks impressive. Navigating it is another matter, it's empty compared to the base game, lots of riding around finding nothing, trying to figure out how to get up or down. More like the snow areas of the base game A complete miss in my book. Bosses are great. New weopens cool but it was a struggle to want to continue exploring. Just wasn't worth it more often than not which is rhe opposite of the bad game. Dlc is still great and From a step ahead of everyone else but I don't get the choices here. Make the open world harder to navigate AND more empty

I'll be honest, I've never been a big fan of overly vertical, and imo, needlessly complicated maps, like the DLC map. With that said, the way it connects, and the design in general, is genius. I'm not taking that away from it, it's just not my favorite type of map design. I much prefer a map like the OG Dark Souls.

Bro has the exact opposite opinion of me, but I'm not a gatekeeping loser so I'll respect it 😂 defending stuff like abyssal woods is pretty insane though. My attitude towards open world exploration in the dlc was "these huge areas have literally nothing in them but a cook book, some runes, and maybe a spirit upgrade. I need to ride my horse through it to get to an actually fun part of the game" then when I got to the dungeons they were mostly underwhelming other than shadow keep. It's like they spent most the budget on shadow keep and said "okay, copy paste these 4 enemy types everywhere, make a regular soldier a spooky shadow soldier, job's done"

This world design falls apart on repeat playthroughs when the game becomes horse riding simulator, and that still is a large part of the experience on the first playthrough. Endless hours of combing the map on horse and finding little to nothing in large swaths of the world. SOTE is even more guilty of it than in the base game in some areas. All of that is in sacrifice to the sense of scale and awe you get on your very first playthrough, but is it worth it?

Peak design lol maybe to satiate the fan base...their open world is atrocious boring and uninspiring...super pretty but the open world lacks what other rpgs do better

Haven't seen the video yet but I hard disagree with the title. I think that so far, Elden Ring and SOTE has one of the worst world design in any Soulsborne and the concept of the open world hurts the game rather than enhancing the experience.

I went down river, and after that the way the it connected and split completely baffled me. Every turn i would discover something and say out loud "love this game". find a "backdoor" "love this game", find crazy weird DARK 😂 frigging dark place pure environmental story telling "THIS GAME IS GOAT". Im not even half way 😂 and already my husband is tired of me saying I love the game over and over

This title is BS lol This is barely a From game from where they use to be

Are you realy play the same shit as i the worst thing in dlc is the open world

Really? I think it sucks to be honest

" things so contraddictory, but they work togheter, to create something that'sthere even if you can't see it now" souls-fans trying to not sound like they are part of a religious cult: CHALLANGE IMPOSSIBLE

it absolutely isn't lmao

Some people would argue this is peak mid.

its not peak at all, its actually the worst experience from fromsoft yet. Cyberpunk vibes on this one, woulda been great, but its not...its half finished at best.

No the hell it's not, this is such a rushjob. Worst thing fromsoft has ever put out. Super dissapointing.

This game was so empty unlike the main game. Idk it's kind of mid if you ask me. The difficulty isn't the issue there just wasn't much worth exploring for. It was fine. I also just came from playing lies of p, from software better get it together or a new dev might out do them at their own game. So yea shadow of the red tree was aight. Had to force myself to finish it where as the main game I had to force myself to stop playing it to do life shit.

Bro these bosses were copy and pasted and every attack is an aoe. The enemy design is lazy. Good world though

its WEAK design, not PEAK design. peak design it dark souls 1, bloodborne. unfortunately eldern ring open world design is one ot the weakest aspect of this game.