NEW 15" Max-x MX15 Subwoofer Review compared to the Ultimax 15

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15" Max-X Subwoofer mx15-22: bit.ly/mx1522
Dayton Audio recently came out with the new 15" Max-x Subwoofer. This subwoofer looks the part and is $50 cheaper than the Dayton 15" Ultimax. What does the Max-x subwoofer offer? And can it be an alternative to those who want to save a little money? Let's take a look at it and then compare it's response to that of the more expensive Ultimax subwoofer.
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Опубликовано:

15 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 122

@Toid 3 года назад

15" Max-X Subwoofer mx15-22: bit.ly/mx1522

@justkiddin1980 4 месяца назад

Would this woofer do good in infinite baffle applications?? I have blown one of my two Fi audio ib315v2

@TylerStout 3 года назад

Looks like money well spent on parts express's side. I just wish they had some better box kits as most of their boxes are small sealed cubes and not ported boxes. I think they could make a dual port maybe 6 cubic foot box with some bracing that came with adjustable length ports and that would work for various drivers since you can adjust the length depending on the tuning frequency. GSG has some nice pre-built boxes though.

@kaedeschulz5422 3 года назад

Or simply tubing with a lot of length and you can cut it to your needed size.

@xxxYYZxxx Год назад

A DIY flat pack is the only realistic option for high performance vented boxes. The size of vented boxes with large ports makes shipping costs excessive, if not the majority of the box's price. A 6ft^3 box is nearly the size of a refrigerator, and costs about the same to ship.

@ScramTek 11 месяцев назад

I'd wager Dayton went with a steel basket for marketing & product range considerations. I'm thinking that when this driver was on the drawing board (figuratively), the design engineer envisaged it having a cast aluminium (yeah I'm a Brit) basket. But when senior marketing guys got their hands on it they realised that with a cast basket it would sit too close to both the Ultimax and the Reference drivers. So this is the result and, if I'm honest, it's still a close competitor to those other options. Don't get me wrong, it does look like a nice driver and it will be a consideration next time I build a subwoofer enclosure. But I'd have been more interested if Dayton had released a slightly cheaper option or preferably, something obscenely brutal that'd clearly sit at the top of their LF driver range. I want something like a 1500-2000 WRMS 12" driver with a 3" dual 2 or 4 ohm coil, 30mm XMax, 25Hz Fs, 1.5 cu.ft Vas, 10' 3 or 4 layer spider in a cast aluminium basket for $300-400. And it should be user serviceable, with replacement cone/surround/coil assemblies available. But I want this with the anonymity that Dayton drivers can provide. No branding or labelling anywhere please. And the DIY market would go nuts for it. Both at home and in the car. Possibly even the pro market..

@jcfitch3194 3 года назад

It's a lot prettier of a curve when tuned to 15Hz when compared to the Ultimax, or even the SI SQL-15.

@FOH3663 3 года назад

With vented applications you never know what could end up contaminating the gap. I'm thinking for a large number of DIY'ers, gap contamination is most likely to occur during construction and final assembly. Also, with a daily driver car audio system, dirt/dust contamination is a legit concern. I've seen steel mesh there in other drivers, including Dayton's. However, in this particular instance, aesthetic appeal ... elevating the driver's apparent quality is also at play.

@kaedeschulz5422 3 года назад

If you get stuff in the gap large enaugh to kill a woofer you are doing something wrong.

@jamesstephenson2346 2 года назад

@@kaedeschulz5422 right? Lmao

@kaedeschulz5422 2 года назад

@@jamesstephenson2346 Yea absolutely 😂😂😂 Have bin ther tho with a driver taken half apart for a new sorround... Cleaning the gap was ASS! Under normal circumstances i have no idea how one manages to get stuff in the Gap.

@danhorton6182 3 года назад

The small vents up top with the grates over them are for cooling obviously and the the mesh specifically is to prevent material from getting in and fought up in the coil gap. You are correct that acoustically there is no benefit to them. Although it would sound pretty bad if something got into the coil gap.

@Toid 3 года назад

Yeah I almost mentioned that that would be really the only benefit. But almost no subwoofers employ this and I've never had an issue with any polyfill getting in the gap.

@danhorton6182 3 года назад

@@Toid Yeah, either have I. Your box would have to be pretty bad inside for that to happen lol.

@buckmclean8391 11 месяцев назад

Wish it came in an 18

@Toid 11 месяцев назад

I agree.

@Zeck88522 8 месяцев назад

my SVS 20-39 PC Plus driver died on me, I replaced it with this version of 12". I got a huge dip between 40-60hz with this driver. But it still works for me. Because I only use it for movies below 40hz

@bdockett 3 года назад

Here is a topic that would be fun to see you address. The viability of car subs either new or repurposed for serious home audio use. It would be interesting to see a direct comparison between a Max-x and say an Alpine type R. I'm using a 15 year old set of four Alpine Type R 10" in home and honestly they sound better in home than they did on the road. If one of them takes a poop I would probably replace them with a set of four new Type R's. They sound that good.

@Toid 3 года назад

That's a good point. Alpine's always made some pretty good subs. There was actually a craze for a while people using them near field in their home theaters. The only issue with using car subwoofers is they typically have an f3 35-45 Hertz range. So if you're going for true 20 HZ Bass, you probably wouldn't be looking at car subwoofers. But I'm always for repurposing anything that you have.

@bdockett 3 года назад

@@Toid Good point as well. The Alpine subs work well for me mainly because of what I use them for. I'm a 2.1 channel guy with no interest in surround sound. I listen to rock and rock/jazz fusion with lots of kick bass drum. The Alpines deliver ( in a sealed configuration ) great slam and impact with no discernable fluff or muddiness. This is a good example of designing a sub system to suite a particular purpose.

@Toid 3 года назад

@@bdockett that's actually a really great point.

@bdockett 3 года назад

It would be nice to see this offered in a duel 4 ohm model. That would make better use of 2 ohm stable amps like the Crown XLS-2502.

@FSXgta 3 года назад

buy a pair and wire them to 2 ohm :)

@adanbrown 3 года назад

What amps "could" you use for it on a single, or even dual?

@herrtrigger7220 3 года назад

Avoid 2 ohm loads, you don't get the SQ of 4 ohms. For absolute SPL, like car contests, sure 2 ohm OK. For fidelity, lowest distortion- nope. The 2502 makes amazing power for subs even in stereo at 4 ohms.

@xxxYYZxxx Год назад

I'm thinking of using the 12" Max X to replace the UM in small sealed box in my ruck. The Max X makes more sense "in theory", but because the UM makes so much excessive bass, I'm saving power since I need to trim the EQ so much (-12db @50hz). I reckon I'd use more power running the Max X with the EQ set flatter, but it would likely sound better.

@Grommet2007 3 года назад

Inductance at 5.51mH is much higher than the Ultimax 15's 1.3mH and is likely to go quite a bit higher than that at lower frequencies. High enough perhaps that it might be better to take it into consideration in any box design using that driver.

@Grommet2007 3 года назад

BTW, please don't tune a high-excursion 15" driver like this in a vented box using a 2" diameter vent - that's way too small :-). Try 6" diameter equivalent or better. Running a sim in Hornresp for this driver in a 5.3 cu.ft. box tuned to 22 Hz suggests that port velocity will still be exceeding 20 m/s at Fb at 800W, even if I use a 6.88" diameter vent. BTW, Hornresp also says that a 5.3 cu.ft. box tuned to 22 Hz with this driver will result in a response with a hump at 50 Hz that's about 5dB above the response at Fb and at 100 Hz. That's likely due to the driver's high inductance (I derived and used the driver's semi-inductance parameters in that sim - these show the driver's inductance rising as high as 9mH at 100 Hz and 12.25 mH at 10 Hz). In fact, that high inductance might just make this driver a pretty good candidate for a passively-assisted sealed alignment - basically a sealed box with a pretty large capacitance wired in series with the driver, which will flatten that inductance hump and extend its response significantly at low frequencies.

@FOH3663 3 года назад

All else being equal, higher inductance is 𝙣𝙤 𝙗𝙪𝙚𝙣𝙤... especially a 500% increase. Still a nice offering ... albeit via a somewhat different angle.

@JoshM7 3 года назад

@@Grommet2007 I'm not sure if you're assuming his port is rounded or not, but he's simulating it with a slot port, so it's 2" x 15" (30m/s air velocity at 800w) which is a bit too small for my tastes. But with a highpass (Depending on what type, it could be as high as 23m/s or as low as 17m/s if centered at 20Hz) it's actually not bad. I like to stay under 23m/s without a highpass personally though. So a 3" x 15" would be more ideal for me. (20m/s at 800w at this size) If I was tuning lower (Maybe under 18Hz) I'd try to stay under 17m/s, but this should be fine for this frequency. I'm not super familiar with inductance, but if the hump is a boost in output then simply PEQ that hump down with a low Q filter if it really is an issue. I'd think the Group Delay it possibly adds would be a non issue as well with it being a low Q filter.

@Grommet2007 3 года назад

@@JoshM7 Ah, I missed that - it's a 2"x15" vent that's 37.06" long. 30 m/s is a bit high, but we are talking about a very low Fb (less audio content that low) and 800W of input to achieve that. Also, with an aspect ratio of 7.45 (15/2), there might be additional losses, compared to a circular vent with the same CSA.

@JoshM7 3 года назад

@@Grommet2007 What kind of losses with that aspect ratio? Lower air velocity? Or something else like losses in output? Always good to ask and learn where I can when I don't know something.

@thenotoriousrvh6091 3 года назад

#PartsExpress needs to make the 21" Kraken with a dual 2ohm VC. I think they are missing a big opportunity by not doing so. Great video, personally I don't think the basket is a big deal at all. I've never seen a sub break a basket it ever heard basket resonation but apparently some folks have.

@Toid 3 года назад

I agree on all accounts. Dual 2 on Kraken would be awesome! Personally, I think if they're going to cut costs the basket would be the first place I would go as well. I mean as long as it's strong enough, I don't mind it. I'm not going to see it.

@8bitbunny_VR 3 года назад

i did read on some stories on baskets on finished tower speakers breaking by transporting in the past (both moving and when shipping from retailer to consumer). but other than that, i never heard a driver breaking its basket from playing music.

@robbiedh02 3 года назад

I had a cast aluminum basket break on my definitive technology woofer!

@2002ZRX1200R 3 года назад

And give it more motor clearance and up the Q into the .42 range.

@jamesstephenson2346 2 года назад

"I've never seen it so it doesn't happen durrrr"

@lio1234234 3 года назад

Awesome video Nick, and very interesting too. Why would Dayton produce a product that competes with one of their other products than making a subwoofer for a slightly different price range/feature set. Doesn't seem like great sales tactics 🤣

@Toid 3 года назад

Lol, that's a good point. I think the people that still really want the ultimax are going to get it. It does have what some people consider a nicer looking cone. I obviously do not.. and it does have the cast frame. I was just really surprised at the performance aspect being so similar. Personally if I was doing a home theater or even the car subwoofer, I would really consider the max X and save some money.

@noahnovotny2100 3 года назад

Personally I think that Dayton was forced to put the max x onto the market because the ultimax models were having trouble with manufacturing. With COVID more people than ever were getting into diy audio and all of Dayton’s subs were out of stock. I personally own a pair of the max x 15s and have made sealed and ported boxes for them and they really are great subs. They have a few downsides like high inductance and the stamped basket, but both are factored into price and I don’t think you can find a better sub for the money now that the reference models went up in price.

@anglerandy5736 3 года назад

@@Toid I went with the max x 12 and love it. Haven't dialed it down to 1 ohm yet, I think it can handle 1000wrms even though rated for 600w rms. There is a vid on RU-vid of it taking 7000w rms.

@kaedeschulz5422 3 года назад

@@anglerandy5736 7kw for half a second or what?

@7thsoneli 2 года назад

Guys love seeing the stacked magnets,this optical upgrade sells subs,hence this version.

@69camaro19 5 месяцев назад

Will this work in a Marty Cube?

@kramermillay 2 года назад

How well do the dayton 15s do in the higher end, like 30 to 40? I love my deep bass but i dont want to have to compensate with another, maybe smaller, subwoofer for the rest of my music. This would be a car application

@TheCornishGingerOfficial 2 года назад

did you ever build a box? would love to have seen it.

@maincharacter2677 3 года назад

Hey, could you check these out in sealed boxes?

@DIYAudioGuy 3 года назад

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

@ke0kie Год назад

Any prayer of MX15 performing well in a 2.6CF box? I have size constraints in my project, it's for mobile DJing. Put another way....what part's express 15" (seeing 4ohm load, probably as series wired DVC 2ohm VCs) will perform best in a 2.6CF ported box?

@robbiedh02 3 года назад

Hey Nick I'll put my 15 up against yours, let's say in a week?

@Toid 3 года назад

Deal

@motodork 3 года назад

I’m quite satisfied with the quality of Dayton speakers.

@kensmechanicalaffair Год назад

It's hard to beat them, my gripe is the build quality. It's built in China, the SQ and performance is almost addictive.

@Grommet2007 3 года назад

FWIW, sensitivity should always be rated at 2.83V/1M. Efficiency is rated at 1W/1M.

@2002ZRX1200R 3 года назад

Only if it's an 8 ohm driver lol.

@Drunken_Hamster 10 месяцев назад

What about infinite baffle?

@adanbrown 3 года назад

What amp would you use for this sub in a Home Theater scenario?

@Toid 3 года назад

You have quite a few options. I plan to use my Crown xti 2002 which has DSP built-in - bit.ly/xti2002 Most will probably use the xli2500 bit.ly/2Sk4cjj or the Behringer 3000d with dsp amzn.to/3qj97NV

@kaedeschulz5422 3 года назад

@@Toid Sadly the Behringer amps don't deliver the power they say tho

@cdelapaz5 2 года назад

Stamp steal, is pretty malleable, which probably tends to flex and vibrate. Probably not a big deal for high output fans,,, however not really good for fidelity.

@JoelHernandez-tz3vk 3 года назад

Wonder if the apparently brand new GRS 18PT-8 Would make a great subwoofer on a tight budget.

@Toid 3 года назад

That is an interesting question. I might have to look into that.

@JoelHernandez-tz3vk 3 года назад

@@Toid Kinda wanna build a home theater with a $400 budget limit. Wonder if this subwoofer is the ticket. Edit: I think it's technically a woofer, but with 7.8mm Xmax and 18" diameter, I seriously doubt this'd have any problem handling subbass. Edit 2: Wonder if the only way I'd go under the budget limit is by letting the sub play the entire bass range then presumably the amp crosses it into the midrange, so I only have to get/make an actual crossover for the tweeter since this one needs the most protection by far.

@JoshM7 3 года назад

6:46 Am I correct in assuming that the impedance rise in that area will protect the drivers from seeing 800w and going over xmax? About 56v going into 4 ohm is 800w, but they both rise to a safe impedance where they will see less power and in theory never go over xmax at that voltage.

@Toid 3 года назад

That is actually a maximum power curve. It takes into account the mechanical limitations of the driver based off the box design.

@JoshM7 3 года назад

@@Toid Right. That's assuming 800w going into the driver ignoring the impedance curve. But factor in the impedance curve I think you'd be safe pumping in 56v (800w into 4 ohm) and not hit mechanical limitations. I was just curious If that sounds correct or I'm missing something.

@Toid 3 года назад

@@JoshM7 ah, I got you. That makes complete sense. Honestly I never took the impedance curve into account with power handling. But your theory makes perfect sense.

@Lamski3 3 года назад

How will the Max-X do in a sealed box with more power and EQ (miniDSP) to boost up the bottom end? Would this be a decent sub for that? What size sealed box would be optimal?

@kaedeschulz5422 3 года назад

You can easily simulate it. Why couldn't you do it? In a sealed box it will not take as much power anyways. So just go for it😀

@Nib0 Год назад

I have simulated the QTC of the MX15 in a 3.2ft³ (90L) sealed box. And it comes out at 0.648 (right between Bessel and Butterworth), giving it an accurate response with very little overshoot. Goes along with a EBP of 47.2 making it perfect for a sealed enclosure application. You won't get as loud in the lowest notes, let's say with a QTC of more than 0.8 but output will be A LOT cleaner.

@toolanddie9789 3 года назад

I have a brand new Klipsch spl plate amp and 1 utimax um12-22 I was going to build a hammer out of. Would this hit better with that amp in a full enclosure like you made?

@Toid 3 года назад

It has a potential for a lot more spl. I'm not sure with the same amount of power which one does higher SPL. But I will say the max X has the displacement category. And that's where this would obviously beat out a 12-in sub

@tommylyeah 3 года назад

Sure is a beautiful sub.

@gerritgovaerts8443 3 года назад

Given the quiet operation of the motor , would you recommend this for open baffle or is the Qts value too low ?

@kaedeschulz5422 3 года назад

I find open baffle bass rather pointless. It does waste tons of acoustic energy. I rather build a secondary wall with integrated sealed enclosures. Sounds good and has good output.

@gerritgovaerts8443 3 года назад

@@kaedeschulz5422 An enclosure of any type (closed , BR , TL , Horn ) will always colour the sound and affect transient behaviour . The purest bass is open baffle , but yes , it comes at a cost of efficiency and loss of room gain but has the additional advantage of creating a lot less interaction problems with the room

@kaedeschulz5422 3 года назад

@@gerritgovaerts8443 The room is much more important. Open baffle speaker's have other problems of their own like reflections from the reae for example. If an enclosure becomes big enaugh it behaves like the driver is mounted free air. Anyways the group delay caused by the enclosure is nothing compared to the room the speaker's is being used in. If enclosures would colour the sound so much that it drastically chnages the original sound loudspeakers in a Studio would be speaker's mounted in a wall with a whole room behind it to have basically no enclosure wich they aren't. They are normal enclosure speaker's in a very well treated room. I used to be in a band as a sound guy and i also used normal speaker's outside wich means no room colouration and drums sounded just like a real drumkit. The only difference being the SPL as the speaker's weren't anywhere powerful enaugh to reproduce it 1 to 1. It was enaugh for a friend's birthday party tho.

@paulgood2218 3 года назад

Great video

@herrtrigger7220 3 года назад

Databass found the Ultimax 18 to be a few db above rated sensitivity and also a 6 ohm load, not 4 ohm, across the sub frequencies so it will be cool to see what this one actually does when tested. By experts.

@Toid 3 года назад

The tests will be out once the box is finished

@herrtrigger7220 3 года назад

@@Toid Awesome! show us what it does in a sealed enclosure since that's what most people will probably be using it for. I think it might work in Parts Express' 3 cu ft enclosure?

@herrtrigger7220 5 месяцев назад

guys at PE said it's too deep for the 3ft, you'd have to cut the bracing which they don't advise.

@brickhouselazer5286 2 года назад

Im goin got go ahead and say a 8 in aeroport would be far better than what 2 inch port will do. Ill also say a fourth order with these subs would get down as well,

@Toid 2 года назад

I would definitely agree with that.. however the one modeled was actually a slot Port that's 2 in tall and 15 in wide. It's easy to overlook in the video.

@brickhouselazer5286 2 года назад

@@Toid bump that up a bit for 50 sq in of port, output should be pretty optimal

@Toid 2 года назад

@@brickhouselazer5286 that can be the case in some situations. In this particular case this is not. When you go with the larger Port like that, you start having issues with Port resonance, which will have a negative impact on sound quality. You actually don't have any issues with this at full power with resonance or port noise.

@brickhouselazer5286 2 года назад

@@Toid real world i havnt had any issues with port noise, maybe becuase i use aeroports mostly, but ive built plenty of slot ports that dont have any either, least not that ive heard.

@johnsmith-qz4bv 3 года назад

great infomation......im thinking of buying these mx 15-22 subs my room is 18x12x7 what do you think of 4 of these subs in my room in a ported box..?..im a bass junky lol have you built your sub box yet ..?...video ?

@Toid 3 года назад

I just built it and tested it this past week. It's awesome! I absolutely love it. I built a 5.3 cubic foot box tuned to 20 HZ. It is amazing! Very clean and shakes the room.

@johnsmith-qz4bv 3 года назад

@@Toid do you have the build video ..?...what are your thoughts on 4 of them in my room..?..

@Toid 3 года назад

@@johnsmith-qz4bv the build video will be coming out soon. You can see the final build either on the Forum or my community page on here on RU-vid. I think four of them would be a lot, lol. I probably wouldn't use four of them. However I would definitely use two of them. But you can never have too much. You can always turn them down. And our testing room was not the biggest.

@johnsmith-qz4bv 3 года назад

@@Toid ok great i was thinking of 4 bc my amp does 1200 watts per ch at 4 ohms plus im a bass junky lol

@johnsmith-qz4bv 3 года назад

@@Toid the box build looks amazing ...cant wait to see the video ..

@herrtrigger7220 2 года назад

Using the 5.3 cu ft enclosure tuned to 22 hz, would I need one or two 4 inch diameter round ports and how long should they be? I can't make any sense of your screen it says 2 x 15 inch which must be a slot vent or something. I tried several online calculators none make any sense to me. thanks!

@Toid 2 года назад

I show you the basics of how to build it in this video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jKJ-ic0XB_Y.html

@robyncollins114 3 года назад

Reminds me of TC sound

@terbo2000 3 года назад

I wonder how well this compares to the RSS HO.

@Toid 3 года назад

Interestingly enough, we're going to be doing a comparison tomorrow night. It's going to be a four subwoofer shootout. The ho and Max X will be on the shootout along with a couple others

@Toid 3 года назад

I'm case you have seen it. Here's the video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MNUPbqy_PdM.html

@hotskull4116 3 года назад

What size enclosure would you recommend for the x-max 15 tune 32 Hertz for a car

@Toid 3 года назад

Why don't you ask this in the forum? That way, we can share pictures of the response, etc. www.toidsdiyaudio.com/community

@erikbritz8095 3 года назад

Id still do 32hz man most musical setups are round there but seems the sub likes going very low...

@bigbardmusiq 3 года назад

2.8 cubic feet

@thecartruthreport8451 3 года назад

Realistically how often do subs fail due do basket failure? I get more concerned when I see stamped steel on midrange drivers due to ringing.

@Toid 3 года назад

Great call

@anglerandy5736 3 года назад

But steel is strong. I have the max x 12 @4 ohms 400wrms. Haven't turned it to 1000wrms @1 ohm yet because it's only rated for 600w rms.

@thecartruthreport8451 3 года назад

@@anglerandy5736 It is more the geometry of the shape you get when you stamp it vs cast that makes cast "superior"

@marziodance 2 года назад

could it fit in closed case in 2.2 cuft as per specifications without depressing the low frequencies ???? and in sql uses ??? thank you...

@MadScientist512 2 года назад

Seriously disappointed with my ultimax 18, to the point that my much more efficient 25 year old classic Jaycar 15 inch 300 WRMS subwoofer pretty much beats it hands down except for below 16 hertz where the ultimax has some advantage, but to do so it takes a 600 litre box versus the 15s 200 litre box. Unlike nearly every other sub I've had that could take a bit more than its rated power and significantly more for brief periods, the Ultimax 18 can barely take its rated power and immediately starts smoking with the slightest excursion over that, and for all these reasons I'll be sticking with my trusty 25 year old Jaycar sub.

@wadimek116 Год назад

Im using ultimax 18" sealed for my home theater and Im happy with it. Considering adding another plus 2 more of pa 460 to fill 40hz up

@kensmechanicalaffair Год назад

Literally no one says the Ultimax can't handle power.

@bobbygetsbanned6049 Год назад

A year later and no build?

@Toid Год назад

Build: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jKJ-ic0XB_Y.html

@Boogerweldz 3 года назад

winISD leaves a lot to be desired. look at LE on the MAX series... :( those reponse curves you shared arent very accurate, the ultimax is still looking better in horn response. id be happy with either.. dayton audio rarely disappoints

@finlaymaclennan5430 Год назад

Sundown Driver lmfao

@beaunord5203 2 года назад

Who's wanting to build Toids end table box with this woofer now?

@artotunkkari9684 6 месяцев назад

Sealed box. By watching parameters you can tell, that it's best solution with this sub.

@KristasBraun Год назад

обычный автодин

@lightningwaves5436 3 года назад

Those vents are meant to dissipate heat, ensuring your subwoofer doesn't die from high voltage.

@Toid 3 года назад

Correct. The Vents themselves are important for cooling. Specifically I am talking about the mesh that covers the vents. It is more for looks than anything else.

@christopherparis6841 10 месяцев назад

Yup better than all other ultistroke u dayton subs lmfao n how many of each size do they have?? Refrence hf n hos lmfao least u didnt get ulti stroked smfh