@maddie9602 Jean might have started the party but the Fans of Star Trek _made it even more profound & progressive,_ later. Jean liked his female characters Strong but Feminine. Then the fans said, 'what about strong non-feminine?' & it just kept going. Now we have people debating the Genders of Literal Shapeshifters. Odo is easily my favorite character, then Data, Picard, Q, Worf, & Geordie.
Can we ponder this for a moment: Person A claims to be a fan of Star Wars, and to an extent probably is. They are also a grievance generator, which is like a troll, but making money off it. They work themselves into such a frenzy over something (that is ultimately just a story beat they don't agree with) that they start a campaign to get it changed, working out a whole bunch of crazy details and trying to line up AI art to go with it... only for MARK FRIGGIN HAMILL to poke his head in and simply say "No" I think in that situation, where your fake rage over Star Wars gets called out by the real Luke Skywalker, the only sane thing to do is take Obi-Wan's advice: "You want to go home and rethink your life." "I want to go home and rethink my life."
The biggest downside of all of this discourse has been how difficult it is to have conversations about Star Wars when you constantly need to be on guard for random people's gross hot-takes.
Just navigate around them. No one says we have to be on reddit or listen to what idiots say here. See the trick is I grew up listening to black metal so I got used to everyone else hating the things I love early in life lol. Just find the 7 other people in the world who agree with you and high five them.
I don't feel comfortable chatting about Star Wars unless its with people I can trust. And while that certainly goes for the Fandom Menace side of things, who are insufferable, it also goes to certain sections of the Star Wars Fandom who love the new stuff, but seem to take it for granted that TROS is hated by everyone. Much like hating the Ewoks was taken as objective fact among fans once. I just love Star Wars, why is it so hard to say that without someone jumping down your throat because you enjoyed the Battle of Exegol and didn't have a problem with a silly fucking dagger? It's not just TROS even, I'm baffled by the hate Book of Boba Fett gets, more so by how everyone got pissed at the third season of Mandalorian. And while I liked Andor well enough, fans of it have basically done a repeat of TLJ with it. That being that all Star Wars should just be like Andor now. And I'm like... no! Star Wars shouldn't be in a box! Stop trying to put it in any one specific box! So it's not just the FM Chuds for me, it's a lot of people who have drawn their own battlelines. I'm excited for the upcoming Rey movie too, but because I like the character. I'm not trying to win the culture war because the culture war is stupid!
@@FNGLHR Lol like the Star Wars reddit seems like a friendly and inviting place... until you say you like Book of Boba Fett or Obi Wan lol. Social media can be a real bummer.
We do all remember that Liam Neeson held on for like ten whole minutes after getting stabbed, right? Oh actually, Darth Maul from that very same scene survived over three decades after getting BISECTED. And then he died from a would so small they were able to hide it from the viewer to keep the PG rating. Lightsaber lethality is "whatever the writer needs" and has been so long before Disney got involved
Maul got cut in half and then fell down a nigh on bottomless pit! Like, even ifvyou wave off getting divided like a math problem he dropped down a chasm so deep that he should have been plastered into sithy salsa when he hit bottom. But he survived the fall and he kept living because some writers wanted to use him and had good stories to tell involving him.
That is true, but as a writer, if you break your own established rules, you risk alienating your audience. When star wars came out, nobody knew what the F a lightsaber was, but it was established as a deadly weapon. it can definitely kill a stormtrooper, then later it kills a jedi, so we stablished that. When a lightsaber comes out, our hero is in real danger. Now when a lightsaber duel happens, what are the stakes to either character? And if there are no stakes, why watch? might as well just fast forward or take a leak or something till the next scene.
@@smirky101 The stakes are that one or both characters is going to get cut/burned by a potentially deadly weapon. The stakes are not "one of them will absolutely die." The stakes are that, now that swords are drawn, it's a fight scene and there is danger. In _Lethal Weapon 2_ at the climax, Riggs was shot multiple times and was in danger of bleeding out, but he survived; the villain was shot once and died immediately. Guns were still a serious threat in that movie even though a main character was shot and lived. Similarly, Leia took a blaster bolt to the shoulder in _Return of the Jedi_ but was still able to return fire with her other hand . . . does that mean all those blasters aren't dangerous? No, it means that risk doesn't equal certainty. Tension and excitement aren't based on certainty, but on risk and the audience's desire to find out how that risk impacts the outcome of the story.
Just to add to your conclusion. My Mum is the biggest star wars fan in our family. It was her who introduced both my sister and I to the franchise as kids. She loves almost every film, we dont watch the disney+ series because often we wait until christmas so we can watch them with her. Star Wars was never a geeky thing, it was the series my mum loved. And I love it partly because it is that family film, its in a collection of my mind of media properties that my family passed their love of it on to me and I always when I watch anything Star Wars related think of my mum in a small way.
Yes, and I thought that was just as stupid (he was cut IN HALF!!! How did he survive!?) However, with hind sight at the, in my opinion, excellent stories we got with Maul (particularly his last encounter with Obi Wan), I'm willing to forgive the stupidity of his survival. Maybe my opinion will change with Sabine and the former Inquisitor if their future stories are as good as Maul's (or Ventriss, even though her story isn't officially finished, just to show I'm not 'hating' on the characters because 'Wamen', like the Assholes Bob mentioned).
@@breadordecide True. However, in both cases (Maul and Boba) it was the writers pulling a survival story out of their ass to try to tell more stories to make the characters live up to literal decades of 'promise' of what the characters could have been. I think they succeeded in the case of Maul, but could have done better with Boba (should have made his entire season about his 'recovery' with the sand people, and next season he tries to take over the Crime Syndicate on Tatooine).
@@KelniusTV You could definitely make this argument with the Grand Inquisitor, which the show never even bothers trying to explain, but one of the things that pissed me off there was that Reva survives this not just once, but *twice*, which really makes Vader look incompetent (maybe all the other younglings survived, too? LOL). To make things worse, the most explanation we get is the GI says something like his Hate enabled him to survive...and yet, it never occurs to him or Vader that the same could easily apply to Reva, who they KNEW hated Vader enough to fake her entire life of loyalty to him, so they just walk away and leave her alone?? We never even see her get any medical treatment for her wound (which was also a sore spot for me in Dial of Destiny, btw), she's just...fine. I actually didn't dislike the character or her actress, but unless there's something solid coming up for her in the future, I felt her character's role should have just ended with being cut down by Vader, finally completing the circle that was only delayed so many years ago...
It's funny that people complain about Han dying from a lightsaber wound when he still looked alive (in a lot of pain, but still alive) when he got stabbed. It wasn't the lightsaber that killed him, it was dropping several hundred feet off the small platform he stumbled off of after being stabbed. I feel like that would probably kill anybody in Star Wars, especially someone in their 70s.
Yup, the only time it didn’t kill someone in Star Wars was… *checks notes* Oh, yeah. Darth Maul, the retcon of all retcons that the fans somehow have no problem with. I wonder why! 😑 Edit: Oh, sorry, the only other time it didn’t was another revived Sith Lord people were less excited about.
Best episode in a while IMO. Really loved the clear messaging and breakdown of how the rage monsters are angry because they arent part of the mainstream anymore.
And that, I suspect, is because of generational turnover combined with how we Gen Xers have ALWAYS been outnumbered. Once upon a time, it was the Boomers. Soon, it'll be Gen Z.
"Women survived lightsaber wounds in the belly it's unrealistic" It's been ten years since Darth Maul has been canonically able to resist being cut in half by a lightsaber and thrown in a botomless pit. New Star Wars obeys the rules of plot armor ^^
Footage of people of diverse backgrounds lining up outside threaters, excited to see original Star wars trilogy is wholesome. It's far from all the online chuds whining about 'wokeness' and 'diversity'
As someone who owns several huge books all about how the spaceships and such works in canon in Star Wars, I am all for them doing wacky wild things for the sake of the story. Also, Qui-Gon didn't even die from the lightsaber stab itself, he died like several minutes later, probably from organ failure. It makes perfect sense someone could get stabbed with that thing in a way and then gets healed up in the magic bactatank healing bathtubs from Episode 5
My favorite example of such is Bastard, where not only does this ninja have a hole in his chest from a chain but he pulls himself across said chain to get where he needs to go. And he LIVED!
Depends on the anime, as a hole in the chest is either instant death or just means nothing, depends on the rules set in that universe. As the rules in Star Wars were long set, Sabine and others all should died along with Qui-Gon. Even with as cool as Darth Maul is, he should of stayed dead.
Qui-Gon didn't die immediately either. Nor did Finn. Hell, Qui-Gon took long enough to let Kenobi finish the fight with Maul, and get a final thoughts segment in. Fin survived getting his back laid open by Angy Boi's rage blade.
And Finn was then recovering from said injury in the following movie partially. When in a "realistic" setting as these people claim, he should be crippled for life AT BEST.
Also getting ganked by a lightsaber pretty much cooks all the flesh around it. So if you don't take out an organ you really need, you're not going to bleed out from a lightsaber wound. And as for the one from the Obi Wan show, they already established that dark side rage can sustain force users through what would be fatal injuries. Also fucking Darth Maul survived getting cut in half! As for Qui Gon and Obi Wan, they pretty much were near force ghost enlightenment so it's more they didn't try particularly hard to stay alive.
Plus, gut wounds IRL are kind of a crapshoot. If it hits something important, or toxins from your gut get into your bloodstream, you'll probably die quickly. OTOH, if nothing too important got hit, you have plenty of time to get medical help. I'd imagine, if anything, most lightsaber gut stabs are survivable, and Qui-Gon simply had bad luck.
This is the franchise where a person dies because "she lost her will to live". Even entertaining this dum-dum conversation is more than these weird0es deserve.
Plus, from what I hear from people who know a lot more about science than I do, a lightsaber wouldn't cauterize anything. It's so hot it would liquefy flesh and turn blood to steam. So the idea that their certainty is based on is nonsense.
Damn Bob, respect that you pulled this Video off. I can not imagine how depressing, as well as infuriating the Research for it must have been, and i hope your next Video is about something that is much more Fun for you to talk about. After all, mental self-care is important
Great episode! There's a reason why the toxic parts of Star Wars fandom tends to be the go-to example when bringing up the "Stages of a toxic fandom" list. Add the "alt-right" (i.e. the self-rebranding performed by nazis and fascists) and general misogyny, racism and so on, and you've got a perfect storm in an echo chamber of self-reinforcing hatred, which the very vocal minority think makes them a majority.
Wow. I don’t usually see your work on the day of, let alone within the first hour. Keep up the great analysis. I don’t always agree with you but you present excellent ideas in a well written format. Thank you for making youTube a worthwhile streaming platform.
Nice to see The Big Picture back. I appreciate all the info about internet bullshit condensed in one place so I don't have to dive into it myself but I do miss Comics Are Weird episodes. Something lighter for the next topic? In some old episode you promised/threatened us with the story of Snailens? Snail Aliens? Something like that :)
Thanks for talking about this honestly bob(re: admitting to past shitty attitudes towards nerd stuff). I know this crap is exhausting but we need people shouting down these entitled little man babies. Also don’t be afraid to give us more episodes that run long 😅
Oh yeah, that's a famous incident in "toy history"...Kenner couldn't make enough of them or something to fill the shelves in time for Christmas, so they just put out empty SW boxes that had a promissory note you could send in or maybe trade in at the store when they got some in...For the life of me, I can't remember if I got one of those or not, but I'm almost certain I must have...Of course, in hindsight, keeping the box and the IOU would have been preferable, but when you're a kid, you want the toy!
Believe it or not in 1977 it took some time to get toys to shelves and the figures weren’t green lighted until the movie was a hit, so the only thing ready for Christmas 77 was a Box with IUO. Yeah that was a thing.
I got into Star Wars because my single parent mom was a raging fan who took her preschooler kid to the first movie in 1977 multiple times and made me an R2-D2 costime out of chicken wire, aluminium foil, and fabric. So... Yeah.
For my own sanity, I generally avoid a lot of modern RU-vid movie or game “critics” that the algorithm tries to push on me, (because that nonsense just makes me miserable) but I really respect how Bob is so willing to call out the worst content creators on RU-vid for their bullshit. Just hope Bob remembers to take plenty of breaks from covering that said bs for the sake of his own sanity. Mental health is important 💜
I think when you cut a dude in half and throw him down a bottomless pit but still figure out how to make him survive because he was the coolest guy in Episode One... that they might not be taking these magic swords thingies that seriously. Which, of course, is a very old trick for bringing back popular characters who got un-alived before people realized maybe they shouldn't have. I very recently discovered a minor controversy in Yakuza video game Fandom as Yakuza 7 brought back two characters they previously killed, one killed by an attack helicopter, the other shot in the head (not to mention the second guy in the series who looks like a dead guy)... and it's not ideal, but whatever.
I have a coworker i talk about nerdy stuff with, and it becomes impossible to hold a conversation when he starts quoting these idiots. It's actually put a strain on our friendship.
@@breadordecide They also harassed tha actor who played anakin in the phantom menace, and Hayden Christenses, and then they go, "no we love the prequels, bring lucas back"
Neither Filoni's Clone Wars or Rebels fit between the movies canonically and tend to counter already existing continuity. For the most part, they have no real impact on the actual canon of the movies, so Maul dying, returning and dying again could of easily never happened. In other words, you can completely remove everything Filoni and nothing in the Star Wars universe changes.
I think that's like Vulcan "up yours" much like how the two fingered peace symbol but showing the back of your hand means the same as the American middle finger in the UK
I wonder how many of those Trekkies know that the Vulcan salute is based off a Jewish hand signal. If those gift videos have taught me anything, they're not just racist, sexist, and homophobic but antisemetic. And they would be seething to realize that fact.
Apparently if you say 'woke agenda' into a mirror 5 times Kathleen Kennedy or Brie Larson appear behind you to laugh in your face. Out of interest how come all the stuff that 'fans' enjoyed from Star Wars and Indy that had Kennedy involved is ignored but she makes The Last Skywalker and all of a sudden these guys are calling The Hague?!
Exactly. These new guys seem to go the opposite way: "Let's use our knowledge of science to debunk superhero/sci-fi tropes as a "gotcha" to the creators/fans and in order to feel smart and smug".
One of the best approaches to creatively engaging with fiction I ever heard was not to go "that's not possible/that violates canon" when you see something askew, but to ask yourself "how can this be true?"
@@digitaljanus It's what writers coming into long-running franchises like Star Wars do all the time on one level or another. Science-ing it is pointless and stupid. You're way better asking if this makes sense emotionally or within the context of the world you're in.
@@digitaljanus This is why people made Elon a hero, we stopped thinking for ourselves on prospects and possibilities, we rely on billionaires to create and imagine our future
@@SidheKnight Which is why they wanted Snyderverse to succeed: an entire reimagining of the best comic book heroes to the whims of a cynical mind who believes they know comics better than their own creators
I like Star Wars and all, but Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy is too good for Star Wars. She has two Academy Awards. She has been honored by the government of Pakistan. These guys complain about her being a "feminist activist" as if she was complaining about two many dudes in the MCU, when she was trying to stop the practice of women being murdered by their family members in Pakistan.
Don't worry Bob, I'll keep watching as long as you Stay On Target! Or even if you wander all over the place and follow lots of tangents. It's all good. Thumbs up for surprise Clerks reference.
Wait are they forgetting that Darth Maul got literally cut in half by a lightsaber and now he's got robot spider legs? Like before the stabbings ever happened? Im starting to suspect these guys don't actually keep up with Star Wars.
Heck, people forgot Starkiller surviving getting stabbed (follow-up with getting thrashed around and getting thrown into space) in the first force unleashed game.
If you're wondering how he eats & breathes, And other science facts...(la! la! la!) Then repeat to yourself its just a show, I should really just *RELAX*
These same people never get mad that Ethan Hunt and John Wick have plot armor bigger than anyone in Star Wars EVER did. But why would they because "action " and "cinema"?
Which should make the argument that they are getting careless with the effectiveness of lightsabers. I didnt think people were mad about the gender of the survivors but wow... Sabine was also very clearly stabbed in like the outer flank whereas the characters in obi wan were stabbed directly in the gut The inquisitor had two stomachs apparently. Riva surviving Vader's wrath is a bad plot point unless Vader deliberatly wants to see if she can survive and wounded her in such a way to give her a chance The show could have explained this better jf so ... but it is stupid to get upset about
I finished playing Jedi Survivor recently. There is a scene where a female character gets stabbed with a lightsaber and immediately dies. Which I guess gives balance for what happened the Third Sister & Sabine Wren
Exactly! These kinds of weirdos are just unpleasant to be around. That’s why you don’t see them at the Disneyland Star Wars land. You don’t see them at conventions. You don’t see them at fan meet ups or those lightsaber clubs. They almost exclusively exist online. Because no one else wants to be around them.
After so many years watching Moviebob he's still got it! Love the videos, love your politics, love your voice, love the Quark insert clip. I just love you Bob, I'm glad you chose this career.
@@BlueBeetle1939 That whole rant against Lt. Yar's presence by the three Ferengi is what stays in my mind. Haven't seen it in 30 years and it's both funny and pathetic how much that still applies to these incel dipshits.
My mum was the one to introduce me to Star Wars in the 90s, after she watched it in the cinema in the 70s. Star Wars has been mainstream since the start.
I’m only vaguely aware of Star Wars canon outside of the movies but, in Clone Wars didn’t DARTH MAUL end up surviving? That dude was cut in half and fell down a shaft Okay, yeah Bob did bring that up
The FF7R thing is extra ridiculous because it was alway clear to me that Tifa continued have rather large breasts … that are now in a sports bra. It is such a small reasonable thing. Far more dramatic changes were made to the considerably less sexually proactive character designs of Claire and Jill in the Resident Evil remakes (I’m not complaining about them. But they are in legitimately different outfits versus the same outfit/design with a small concession for realism)
@@CarbonMage It’s weird, I think if FF7R wasn’t a “remake” of something from the ‘90s it would be less likely to get caught up in anti-woke discourse and Tifa would rightfully be thought of as a pretty horny character design.
Thanks for being one in a handful of legacy creators. Not that I _enjoy_ your opinion on the state of youtube, but it brightens my mood that I'm not alone in that thought.
It's really nice to see you posting a new New Big Picture video and it's really nice to see you taking another crack at the far right fandom once again
Their argument holds no water. Solo didn't die from being impaled with a lightsaber. He was impaled...then immediately fell off of the absurdly unsafe catwalk like a thousand feet down a chasm. How did they miss the *huge fall*?!? Don't they WATCH the movies they claim to be so protective of?? *taps earpiece* Ah, right. Of course not.
It's even better when you turn the spotlight on the 'discourse' about the most recent episodes of Doctor Who. There are RU-vidrs 'quoting' entirely made up sections of dialogue as proof of whatever point they're trying to make.
I mean... probably not. Half the outrage around these things is almost entirely manufactured. A huge chunk of these folks are gifters, trolls, grudge collectors or other garden variety assholes who simply enjoy (and profit from) setting fires. A few are straight up neo-nazi or related chuckleheads taking advantage of the convenient smokescreen.
Suddenly flashing back to these same people complaining that Rey defeated Kylo too easily in The Force Awakens on account of being a "Mary Sue" (another term that should get one banned from actual discussions about media). And I'm sitting there going "It took two people, a shotgun blast from a wookie, and an earthquake to neutralize Kylo Ren as a threat, and he wasn't even properly beaten, what are you all going on about?".
I'm so glad to bear someone else note "None of these people are technically human beings", Princess Leia is a cross between someone from Naboo and someone from Tatooine who was then raised for 19 years on Alderann - if you can buy Superman breathing in space and getting superpowers from our sun, then you should be able to buy Princess Leia being able to survive in Space for long enough to pull herself to safety.
The two are not equivalent. And honestly, if they had done the legwork to show that it was possible in some way for it to happen, I would buy it. But it was a poorly thought out plot contrivance in the end.
For like two years I didn't understood why people where so mad that Leia used the Force to go back to the spaceship, but then I remembered: *Genndy Tartakovsky's **_Clone Wars_** isn't canon anymore* ... then the outrage made more sense, this people never saw Count Dooku levitating 20 feet into a gladiator's arena, they never saw master Saesee Tiin jumping a star destroyer directly into Separatist cruisier without any jetpack, they never saw Mace Windu obliterate an entire drone batallion with his bare hands, this people are annoyed because they're unaware all the crazy-ass B.S. Jedi really can do thanks to the Force
@Mario_Angel_Medina Hell, in The Force Unleashed Starkiller gets stabbed by Darth Vader and then sucked out into the vacuum from an airlock and survives. And many of the people being called out in this video for complaining about this shit love Starkiller, lol.
Let’s also remember that NO ONE KNOWS what happens to a person when they are exposed to a complete vacuum because no person has ever been exposed to a complete vacuum. That would be what we call an unethical experiment.
Mace Windu fell to his death. Sheev Palpetine fell to his death. Luke Skywalker and Obi Wan Kenobi at different points almost fell to their deaths. Yoda had to frog hop up to Sidious and couldn't recover when he was tossed down. Anakin got dismembered because he couldn't clear lightsaber reach. The Force. Cannot. Make you. Fly. Until it suddenly can.
When someone starts their sentence with "I've never liked star wars, it's too woke" I am COMPLETELY unprepared for the end of that sentence to be "That's why I'm a Star Trek fan"...WHAT?!
I mean, both are bound by fandom nostalgia and are prevented from moving forward. Star Trek just started showing cracks sooner because it was initially intended to be progressive, while Star Wars only ever aspired to Neolibralism.
So here's the funny thing: you can in fact make a Not Dipshit case for not liking the survive-the-stab stuff, not because it breaks the imaginary physics of the space-wizard show but because it creates a bad Dramatic situation wherein the show asks you to care about the potential death of these characters and then instead just waves it off as No Big Deal right after. I don't know if I'd personally make that case, I haven't seen either show so I can't honestly say, but you COULD if you wanted to! The problem is none of the Dipshits want to do that because that involves admitting that they have Opinions and not Cosmic All-Encompassing Truths, which is WHY the whole scene is so dominated by attempting to translate what they personally don't like into Failure And Doom For The Franchise, an attempt to force the subjective peg into the objective hole. And because said subjective peg invariably involves a Bigotry they don't want to openly admit to even as they all but publicly and loudly announce it...well, shit gets ugly REAL fast.
The narrative issue is a great point, and also one likely to pop up more often when you increase the number of characters swinging laser swords around! I sometimes think people forget that the original movies only had about 3 characters using them...Unless your story allows for characters to be killed off regularly, we should just brace ourselves for sabers suddenly being much less effective in times to come. (has anyone even lost a limb to one since Disney took over?)
Correct me if I’m mistaken,but didn’t Luke loose a hand to freaking Darth Vader’s Lightsaber and survive a fall into, something, and after some socialist medical care, the only mention of it was a couple of dramatic glances in the direction of the bionic replacement hand and a weird fetch quest ? No instant death no dramatic repossession. Yes you could complain about plot armour, but the Heroes in SW have plot armour right up until the actor’s contract runs out. It’s part of the fun. Nothing really matters.
@@francesconicoletti2547 Last I checked, losing a hand, while bad, is hardly a life threatening situation, and the hall wasn't that bad at all, he didn't even need bacta for it, so that doesn't really hurt the stakes of the story. What you're talking about is more like, if Luke's hand is cut off, then he's walking around a couple scenes later, with both his hands and no explanation...After all, if it's all just made up fiction, and nothing really means anything or matters at all, then why not just do whatever, right?
@@HandofOmegawhen is losing a hand not a life threatening situation ? Get someone to a modern hospital before too much blood loss ( these are the rip the taun taun open light sabres ) or sepsis and the amputee is probably fine. Fall down the inside of space machinery spouting blood ( missing in the movie but hey heros don’t bleed ) fending off crashing into bits of space machinery with the stump and plot armour might be nessisary. Since this is a franchise that practices resurrection from a standing start, with no warning and no reason given accepting that it has no dramatic stakes is now one of the prices a viewer has to accept for watching participating in the franchise.
I still haven’t played Starfield, but I would have completely forgotten that Baldur’s Gate 3’s character creator let you use they/them pronouns if it wasn’t for that controversy. It is such a minor thing and ridiculous to care about
I think you hit the nail on the head at around the 11 minute mark. People put a lot of energy into making the nonsense make some kinda sense and some outside group (the Walt Disney corporation) told them that all that effort and value they had developed was actually worthless. Given that they didn't have a lot else going on that they cared about that becomes quite upsetting. I'm not saying it's good or should be championed but it's pretty straightforward and easy to understand.
It's weird to assume there is a secret agenda instead of just lazy story telling. Surviving a lightsaber to the chest sounds a little lazy because the audience is expecting them to die, so next time someone gets stabbed the audience isn't sure if they are going to die. I think surviving the wound would be cool, if you made a thing of them surviving it. Give them a scar, make it a point of the story they take time recovering, etc etc. When George Lucas made the prequels bad, nobody assumed there was an agenda (as far as I remember)
Nitpicks like “Sabine didn’t die” distract from real issues like the show generally being boring & most action beats sucking in general. I would have had no emotional connection to ANYTHING that happened on that show if I hadn’t watched The Clone Wars/Rebels first. But when we have this culture of nitpicking and incel fandom gatekeeping it becomes difficult to like or dislike anything in the space.
@@TheJadedJames it was impossible to tell what anyone actually thought of Rings of Power. I had issues with it but the internet was flooded with too many shit takes for me to bother reading any
And this is why I will never be as bothered by the studios and franchises as I am by those kind of fanboy imbeciles. At least she was trying to do some good honest work; these morons were just being disingenuous douches.
The big point all the "your not a real geek" people don't have the guts to say out loud is that being really into sifi fantasy or cartoon and comic media was for a while, after a certain age widely considered low status and they don't consider you a "real" geek or nerd if you weren't or wouldn't have been willing to be openly interested in this stuff back when there was a perceived social status penalty involved, not understanding that a lot of what caused this status penalty was THEM their lack of verbal and nonverbal communication skills their inability to exercise proper emotional regulation and their inability to understand nuance or consider other points of view and that when people without these problems started to get involved with these things in big enough numbers the penalty went away but importantly THEIR status DIDN'T increase, because it was never about the media it was about them and to this day they are still trying to cope with that
Good episode all around. I personally try to stay away from the hyper-negative aspects of the internet and media in general, but having your analysis as a quasi-filter to not be negligent of that side is always nice to have. Keep it up Bob!
4:17 I’ve been immersing myself in TTRPG as of late, and I have had the epiphany that Star Wars is more akin to Dungeon and Dragons than it is to a piece of genre fiction like The Lord of the Rings or Dune. Since 1987, when West End Games developed the Star Wars: The Roleplaying Games, Star Wars has ceased to be a film franchise and has become a RPG franchise. This all started with the aforementioned RPG that created source books and rules and such for all things in Star Wars; then those rules were translated into the first major expanded universe media: The Thrawn Trilogy and The Dark Empire Trilogy: the authors literally took the RPG source books and used them to write the novels. Throughout the 1990s, Star Wars was essentially using the same playbook: create toys and games that all fit within the same general RPG playbook and theme (a Stormtrooper is approximately this strong, a Star Destroyer is this large and powerful, etc.). This is probably part of the reason why the prequels are so dull but internally consistent: they were making adaptation of an RPG not a narrative fiction like Dune (where it doesn’t matter how powerful Paul Atreides is as long as his actions fit the narrative). This is most likely why so many old school fans had an issue with the sequel trilogy (outside of the old EU being ignored): Disney did not want to maintain the style and structure of an RPG, they wanted to use a more narrative style of storytelling. With this style, Rey doesn’t have a RPG style character sheet, she can do whatever she needs to progress the story. Now was this a wise approach for Star Wars? Hard to say, but with this context, the last three decades of Star Wars does seem to make much more sense.
i was always under the impression that obi wan vanishing through darths lightsaber strike was more him letting this happen than "this is what lightsabers do" since...well they obviously absolutely are not making everyone vanish in the first three films all the time.
What made the SWT and mark hammil thing even dumber is that hammil didn't even call him out. He didn't say he couldn't do it, or that he was offended; he just said he didn't give permission, which is an accurate statement. SWT is whining about NOTHING
Honestly a lot of nerd / geek movies do seem to just be visual snacks and treats depending on where they first premiered. True there are people who will go to a star wars movie but a majority of those aren't going to read the books, play video games or watch (animated) tie in shows. A lot of people just have the movies, talk about it for while and then move on unless another movie comes out reminding them of the other one.
Exactly! What a lot of toxic nerds/geeks don't understand is that "normal" people watches a lot of the same movies as them, but they don't watch them with the same obsessiveness. Yes, there are films that "normies" would never watch (like those Babylon 5 TV-movies or anything Uwe Boll has ever directed) but *everybody* you will ever knew has watched Star Wars, or Back to the Future, or Indiana Jones, or Jurassic Park, etc. The difference is that the regular people just watched them and moved on, instead of memorizing the names of every single character, location, creature or gadget in the saga
Still love your stuff, being a fan of star wars since I was a child, and now nearly sixty, I've just really grown out of the whole thing really...real life has a lot more to worry about...
"What did you like about any of this, when you did, to hate it this much now? And why stay invested and angry when you could do anything else?" Thanks for putting it well, Bob. As a recovering Destiny and Destiny 2 player who was fed up for a long time but finally left after the company fired dozens of beloved senior staff to make the bottom line less thin back in October (just about the same time, and EXACTLY the same thing, that happened to the Second Wind folks, funny that) and that's exactly the thought process that keeps me remembering why I left and won't come back, but also that reminds me not to hate-comment on every single post.
"The two information sources that are Kryptonite to youtube: verifiable data and the opinions of people who regularly touch the grass." Goddam. Another 'those darn alt-right-ers' and you hit me with one of the best quotes I've ever heard.
My understanding of lightsaber mechanics is that it works like Halo energy swords: plasma suspended in a force field. That's why they have a specific length.
My favorite approach to this lately has been to just remind myself (or naysayers) of the truth: I love Star Wars, good, bad, middling. And it kinda becomes hard for anyone to squash anything surrounding it when I just focus on the merits of even the Star Wars I don't love. If they wanna live their days hating star Wars for brownie points or are just experiencing their own disappointment cycle, cool. Sucks to hate on the thing you claim to love but, y'know, it's Star Wars. I love me some "here's the new glub shitto" and I love me some Andor.
Frankly, for a while now, I've been flabbergasted that people with actual, decades-long experience in geek-related spaces, notably Chris Gore of Film Threat, and Robert Mayer Burnett (who made the film "Free Enterprise") have in recent years become chummy with some of these prominent "Fandom Menace" types. It's honestly left me with so many uncomfortable questions, and if anything, part of me is more inclined to be wary of movie/genre fiction buffs in general. Kinda like Comicsgate, but maybe worse.
Robert Mayer Burnett defending Ezra Miller's crimes by saying on the JCS "Who hasn't made some mistakes as a kid?" made me really uncomfortable to the point where I can't really enjoy the show anymore.
I think it's the 360° of it all. As a kid, you like whatever's popular. In late teens or 20s, you reject it because it's kiddie stuff. Then in your 30s (especially if you have kids on your own), you come back around to saying the "original" (often not the original per se, but the one you remember from your childhood) is the only good one and all the new iterations are worthless. You hit 40, and you realize this has all happened before and will all happen again. We've gone from George Lucas being God, to his being the Devil, all the way back to his being God again.
Wait, _this_ is what all those "They ruined lightsaber battles" videos that I ignored were about? I thought they had semi-legitimate complaints about newer lightsaber battle choreography not adhering to canon (i.e. based on the no longer canon novels) light saber martial forms. My rebuttal to that straw man is: What made up "old" choreography are you comparing this to? Wasn't the first lightsaber battle ever shown on screen just Vader and Obi Wan gently poking the tips at each other until Obi Wan just gave up? And Original Trilogy Luke wielded his lightsaber with all the training and finesse of a 10 year old who just discovered a big stick. The Prequel Trilogy was where lightsaber battles actually started being interestingly choreographed, but fans hate those movies with the passion of a thousand suns, so I couldn't imagine _that_ being the gold standard everyone's comparing modern lightsaber work to. You're telling me all the hate was actually just about someone getting stabbed (with the magical laser sword) and not dying?
My kids were preschoolers when TPM came out and they LOVED Jar-Jar. So did most of the other little kids in our friend and family circle. He was put in there to appeal to kids AND HE DID. The neckbeards were mad because they weren't kids anymore and there was a thing in their movie that wasn't specifically designed for them. And for a movie that "everyone" hated when it came out, they kept watching it in droves. Even now a quarter-century later, TPM is the #19 movie in history for all-time inflation-adjusted box office. That movie made a killing for Lucasfilm. As for the movie itself, it's frankly highly underrated. As an adult, I found JarJar tiresome, but it was visually stunning and has one of the best "Reel Six" sequences of any SW movie. The soundtrack is wall-to-wall bangers, probably second only to the original SW in quality. It has some low points, but frankly so does every SW movie, and the high points of TPM are amongst the best in any of Star Wars ever. Perfect? No. But all things considered it's excellent. Attack of the Clones... that's another story. :)
I was 11 when it came out, and I dragged my father to see it in theaters a total of 11 times (purely coincidental). I cannot say I ever hated Jar-Jar, and I did not mind him the first few times, but yeah, by the final theater viewing, I was largely over him. Again, I never hated Jar-Jar - even saying I disliked him is a bit of a stretch - but I was skipping most of his scenes in my DVD copy of the movie, though the main reason was because I found those scenes to be the most boring. What can I say? New ultra-fast acrobatic laser sword fights and the extended pod race scenes were more appealing to me. And yeah, Duel of the Fates is one of the best Star Wars tracks ever, demonstrating why John Williams is the grandmaster of movie soundtracks. As for AotC, I agree in it is not as memorable throughout as TPM, but it still has plenty going for it. And yeah, I hated on the Anakin-Padme scenes like many others did, but the focus of my hatred shifted over the years. Why? Well, I think Nostalgia Critic pointed it out, in that you know that real-life romances tend to go down more like Anakin and Padme, and yeah, you hate the real people going through said romances. Their exchanges are painful to watch because of how accurate they are, which is a lot more than you might initially think.
I was about 25 when The Phantom Menace hit. Liked it for what it was (still say the podracing sequence was the strongest part of the whole film), though I felt the Prequel trilogy got stronger storywise as it went along. NOTHING I saw was worth the gaslighting, snide jokes and angry fan-trums that it inspired.
Yeah i gotta agree Bob. I don't understand these creatures but i love seeing you riff on them. I honestly feel kinda sorry for them trying to scrape together something that resembles a personality from "everything i don't like is 'woke' and I hate that the world culture won't let me own a woman as property". Like, how empty and joyless is your life that you're scared of anyone that has a life that doesn't involve you? Step outside. Touch grass. Read a book. Go somewhere outside of your comfort zone. Get some real problems. Get some perspective on the world and see how little you actually matter when weighed against it. Cause this whole "lets be loud, sexist, racist and angry" shitck you got going on isn't going to carry you far.
I don't remember if was Adum from YourMovieSucks or who, but someone last year said soemthing along the lines of "a lot of Conservatives are homeschooled kids that reached adulthood without ever learning which annoyances of life are important ennough to get angry about and which aren't"
@@Mario_Angel_Medina I have no idea how true that is but it makes a lot of sense. Whenever I see these types of people who act like trans people getting acknowledgement and acceptance or gay people being treated as equals or women having rights and bodily autonomy are the most horrible things to ever happen in human history i just want to slap them and tell them to go get some real problems in their lives. There are actual genocides happening right now to real human beings and these creatures think that having women of color in Star Wars is an attempt to erase white men from American culture.
@@Mario_Angel_Medina Makes me glad that not only was I homeschooled for only one year - and it was due to a convulsion of events that made my mother give up on finding a school to send me to for that year - or that the school my mother got materials from actually gave a sh^t about academic performance (not really college-prep, but practically college-prep-prep, you could say), but despite achieving enough to skip the rest of middle school and go straight into high school, my mother was insistent on me not skipping grades so that I could get more practice and experience in social skills. Yeah, I was still fairly conservative back then despite my rather high-quality education, but I think the aforementioned details helped prevent me from becoming a Conservative. I guess like Dexter Jettster in AotC said, "...[T]here is a difference between knowledge and wisdom," because I can confidently say that I was sorely lacking in wisdom back then.
I’m inoculated against rage-bait at this point… I’ve been online long enough that when I see a thumbnail of an angry/upset person with a wild title, I just roll my eyes and keep scrolling
Thank you for finding a use for this stuff - it may have been a good idea to cut it out of the TMNT vid (for time and to stay a bit more laser-focused), but this video was also a good talk. I remember in the 90s/early 00s that liking Star Trek and Star Wars in general was fairly normal (same with Jurassic Park, or even superheroes to an extent), it was over-obsession with those things that was considered odd: so being really into the books and lore (games were different, especially the action games or Pod Racer), knowing a lot of the below-surface level details, going to conventions, etc. Maybe it's just my experience, but even those things didn't lead to a lot of teasing or bullying, it just happened to be a thing that wasn't necessarily touted as openly as it might be nowadays - but it seems to be pretty acceptable/normal now.
