NEW! Most Affordable Aircraft Engine! ZD Zongshen [FULL INTERVIEW] Clone Wars Rotax Vs. ZD CKD Aero 

Congratulations! You manage to produce an entire video about the new most affordable aircraft engine without actually mentioning the price!

I’ve worked at an FBO and built a half dozen or so engines, mostly IO-470 & 520s. Silicone (RTV) is a big no-no. It softens in hot oil and the goobers can end up in the oil passages. That is a non starter for me.

If you want to know about the engine jump to 15 minutes and you will get little. The rest is all "We had a question online that I thought we would ask and now is good time to do that ......." and general word salads. It is a 100% Rotax 912 clone. That is about all. 500 hour warrantee.

Here in the UK, the saving vs the same Rotax is so small, it doesn’t make taking the risk worthwhile.

I was originally very sceptical of this engine. We have a Rotax engine shop and when I bought the first Zonsen engine I had it stripped down to the crank and check the quality and tolerances as far as possible. With the engine stripped, you cannot see any difference between this engine and a Rotax engine. The parts were to the decimal the same size and extremely high quality. I reassembled the engine, slap a KFA turbo on it and am now happily flying behind a 135hp KFA version in my KFA Explorer. The engine is extremely smooth and performs flawless. From a mechanical perspective there is no reason for me to doubt that this one will be just as good and maybe even better than Rotax. When I sell a standard Zonsen engine it comes with a 300hr or 24 month warrantee, which is better than Rotax. This company is massive and they manufacture engines for very well known car brands (high end German and some US cars) generators, motor cycles and much more, so you can criticise all you like but chances are that you are driving or have driven behind some of their engine in well known cars, bikes, lawnmowers etc etc. Some competition in the market can only be good for the consumer.

Parts availability in GA right now is killing it, not to mention quality. We dropped a well known after market IO-360 the school's 172 by 470 hours it was burning 1 quart an hour and had 10 to 40 psi on 3 cylinders, cracked figure 8 shaped exhaust guides & rocker faces that looked like the surface of the moon in addition to being crooked. Genuine Lycoming cylinders is almost a 1 year wait

These will have to be in service for a million fleet hours with excellent reliability before I would even consider one of these.

a friend of mine had a Hirth F30 blow a crank on climb out. He was killed on impact. The investigation gave me a huge appreciation for metalurgy 101. Cheaper motors are just that. Use accordingly.

22:11 Compared to EPDM rubber, silicone has around 15 times the permeability to water vapor, so you'd have check coolant levels and top off with water more often.

I see details like 17:46 lumpy sealant oozing out of a valve cover & the fuel pump & 20:28 bad welds on the exhaust showing the usual Chinese quality I've come to expect. My opinion on the painted castings is it will retain heat & is likely a sealant for casting flaws. I'm ok-ish with Chinese junk powering my lawn mower or weed eater but I'm standing on the ground when they take a dump! We don't make much here anymore because businesses push "Fine China" products on us for higher profits while China's society promotes cutting corners on quality for profit.

Rtv around the fuel pump scares the shit outta me. Rtv everywhere seems like a hack job and a pita when something has to come apart.

If we wanna keep flying even remotely accessible, we gonna have to start giving engines like this a much lore serious look.

Competition is always good for consumers

Hi Brian, as an alternative to the Rotax, could you please do a review of the Aeromomentum aircraft engine. don’t hear much about them. It would be interesting to hear what they like.

As fitted to the Iranian shaed drones...

Looking at current prices the delta isn't as much as I expected. I've used their ATV clones and they haven't ever given me an issue, the carbs have they always gum up faster, I'm not sure if its a material thing or what... the good news on the Gy6/atv is you just put your hand over the intake and crank it and it will usually open up the jets and run. Would be curious to see if their carbs used here have similar issues. 115hp is 10k cheaper and the 100 is 7k cheaper, nothing to sneeze at but... now if they can find other uses (those little cars or something) to increase volume of these types of engines it might pull the cost down for both rotax and zd. The market needs affordable engines so hopefully these have a impact. The 912/914 market is large (in aviation terms), and the IO540 is probably the next popular... that is an area that needs a good slot in replacement as most of the 4 place experimental use it and the price has become preventative for many.

Outstanding thank you sir!

I'll bet there is no nikasil coating on those cylinders, nor the very close tolerance of cylinder/piston clearance as Rotax has.

I watched your video with Matt. He paid $8k for his a year ago. Now they are up to almost $16k. Were they $10k or less I'd understand buying one. At 2/3 the cost of the real deal I'd pass. The line I found the most comical was that Rotax had no competition so now they are going to have to compete with their own design. Glad you are informing the public but I'll be watching on the sidelines for now.

Good reporting! The cost of parts is what really is the downside of Rotax. Rotax cylinders, rings, pistons cost the same as certified Lycoming/Continental. That is why Rotax engines are never overhauled because the parts cost and the labor cost from Lockwood exceeds the cost of a new engine. Rebuilding.the gearbox (childs play for even an average experienced mechanic) costs $2,800 from Lockwood. Absolutely ridiculous for what amounts to be a simple non EPA compliant motorcycle engine. I hope Zongsen puts a serious dent in the Rotax customer base. I for sure will be buying their replacement parts.

I am no chinese fanboy - but....I do have a Zongshen engine in a very quiet inverter generator. It has several hundred hours on it without issue. Doing maintenance on the generator, I cant help but notice how nice the engine castings are and also internal parts (checked the valve clearance at 300h). I also just realized my little 110 pitbike's engine is a Zongshen and is also well built and seems to be of high quality. I swapped a hotter camshaft into this one and the internal components look as quality as the many many Japanese motorcycle engines I have worked on and rebuilt.

I don't know what is more frustrating.. the fact that they just ripped off a design from Rotax or the fact that Rotax is price gouging?

Interesting

22:30 those welds look awful

TBO for these engines? Aren’t the Rotax engines basically computer controlled? My 912 does all the thinking as far as carb heat, richness at all levels and mixture, warm up, all temps, etc, etc … very, very stable, dependable… (he mentioned the UL Power engines)…. Is China involved with this in any way?

One very helpful thing would be a CAD model for mounting points and a feel of size 😬

What is the RPM on the Prop at take of and cruse speed on your smallest engine .

Great the more competition brings the price down to make them more reasonable

Shitty welds at 22:30

-It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood.

Zongshen is in fact a motorcycle manufactures, I send some times at the factory asked if I would be interested to develop the 4 cylinder engine, was taken to the “secret” rooms and what is saw was a Rotax .. not interested in to copies , but was well treaded and given some nice gifts. The company owner is a super-rich guy and part of the government …

Nice to know that if I have engine failure and survive the crash, I can get warranty repair.

Why do research and develop a new product when you can just copy someone’s hard work.

Good to see Zongshen make a small aircraft engine. I have owned a Zongshen motorcycle that was good and reliable. I also have a Rotax 582 on my ultralight that was way too expensive for what it is.

I'm wondering whether Richard pronounces Zongshen more like "Zonsen" on purpose. It sounds closer to a name like "Johnson" this way and doesn't make it so obvious, that it's a Chinese product. At the Aero exhibition their booth was even branded as Zonsen Aero Engines (not Zongshen).

Rotax needs some competition

Mr. Kacsmarek has a tough job ahead of him. He is very careful about using the word “Asia” instead of the word “China” and if you are not proud of where your product is manufactured that’s not a good start. He answers questions about quality and warranty by explaining what those standards and certifications mean but never clearly states the engine meets them. He points out the excellent warranty but never provided an example of how the process would actually play out for a customer. He never said if parts were readily available or in stock but in the event of a major failure, ZS “wants the entire engine back”. What does that mean for the owner? That’s no different than how Rotax does it. To me, this implies he doesn’t want to explain the details because it’s not going to brief well to potential customers. He did admit there are no service centers in the US for this engine yet but he’s working with a guy in a hangar in Florida. He missed the opportunity to explain how ZS will keep their customers informed of component defects, recalls, service or safety bulletins, etc. No mention of the technical data owners or mechanics need to service and repair the engine and where to go to keep it updated. Bolting an engine to an aircraft is about much more than the upfront price and Richard missed an opportunity to convince us the ZS is a good alternative to the Rotax product.

15:40 did I get that correctly? "Helping out Rotax owners" with non-OEM parts from a different manufacturer?😅 26:35 in real engineering, we either use RTV _or_ an O-ring or a gasket or a lip seal. These are all different design elements with a myriad of variations, so I am always eager to learn. But I just don't get why one should be happy with a manufacturer that uses RTV to "quicken" the production process to mount something that is design-wise sealed with an O-ring. This will cause headaches down the road.

Chineseum engine in in my aircraft?? Not a chance..!! Disssasenble and perform some metallurgical inspections.. and how about parts availability?

Will Rotax say something about using their IP?

That was a lame answer for using RTV. What he should have said was that is a great question and I will get back to you with an answer.

Does the ZD come with fuel injection? or is there a fuel injection kit available ?

I don't trust Chinese quality and would prefer the original, the best- Rotax.

Very Interesting option. Great video discussion.

I have purchased products that came out of China , as they are becoming more available in the current market place here in N.America and probably throughout other places on our planet... Several of their products seemed to have initial Q.C. and questionable materials issues, when they first became available... Now, the Chinese products have become quite reliable and definitely show impressive quality with attention to detail... This engine is one of those.... BTW, the Chinese Products are not the first ones to clone designs that were developed in oyher countries... There are numerous sucessful countries who cloned products that came from other parts of the World 🌎🌍... I'm wondering what the specific materials are that are used to produce these engines : What alloy type was used for the high- stress castings (like the center cases, psru cases, heads, cylinder jugs, Pistons, etc.) ? Were these parts checked for cracks, inclusions, air pockets, etc, ? What type of metal was used for the high-stress steel components (like crankshafts, camshafts, connecting rods, valves and valvetrane component's, piston rings, connecting rod bolts, center case and jug studs, etc.) Are the 2-piece con-rods the fractured type or the machined parting - surface type? What is the primary triggering device for both of the ignition systems? Points & electronic ? Maybe a medium voltage 'Scintilla' 'shower of sparks' type with points? Do the ignition drives have inpulse couplings ? Are the Ignition leads the standard shielded type? I'm a BIG fan of carburetors... Those look like clones of the CV Bings... I especially liked the anti-ice intake collars that looked like they transferred the heat from hot oil to keep the Air horn impact air porting, venturi slides & throttle place free of ice... What are the specs. of this machine? Can the parts supply chain travel from other places, besides China? I'm also wondering about the manuals... are they readily available for these engines and associated equipment like the props, ignition system, induction system, exhaust systems, engine oil cooler heat exchangers and thermostats, electrical power generation and cranking systems ?

The 912 must be around $28,000? How much is this engine?

It's a shame. Anybody else in the free world trying to openly copy a concurrent product would be sued and convicted. But it's China... Even if it could be interresting to have cheaper alternatives to the 912, it's not acceptable. If I had to change my 912, it would surely not be for this product. They'll even probably copy the documentation, so that they don't even need to try to write one down.

Lots of discussion on an affordable alternative choice but no target prices. Does it have a big bore upgrade available?

I assume, since this is thru a major distributor, not “AliBaba”, that the patents of Rotax have expired, and this is a “legal” copy?

They were at Aero 2024. Their website says that have a 145HP turbocharged engine. We don't need 912 engines, we need turbos. Nobody wants 912 when 916 is just better. Their 145 engines seem to be carburettor which is no good, tell them we need injection. We need an engine as good as the 916 at 1/10 the cost.

As an engineer, taking a product and just reverse engineering it, and reproducing it exactly as is, just offends me. Come up with something better. I would rather pay more than buy something that's just a lazy cheap knockoff.

madam Gravity is always ready to deal with those who value their own lives at the price of the most affordable engine

All these water-cooled, alternator and battery dependent engines would work great in snowmobiles, ATVs, or PWCs, but I really do like air-cooling, carburetors, and magnetos in airplanes. No worries about coolant leaks in flight and it keeps running normally with total electrical failure. If these things are the future of aviation, I'm done flying. Electronics might be durable, but I've seen a lot more alternator failures than magneto failures in my 42 years in aviation, and when the battery gets weak, electronic ignition or FADEC just stops working. Backup batteries don't make me feel any better about it. One more thing to add weight and require maintenance, which means one more thing to get neglected. Aviation R&D is going in the wrong directions.

I did the certification for the Chinese Sunward Aurora LSA in 2019 that used the Rotax. Back then the engineers mentioned this engine, interesting to finally see it.

I don't want to buy a thing that is a "cheap copy" from a country that is hostile towards mine. So....not an option despite the savings in price. 😢 Will these sentiments be a barrier for sales? i suspect so! No offence to Richard. Im sure he works hard.

So basically $15k for a carburated with mags Subaru 4-cylinder. Here's a dumb question: And I'm not an A&P mechanic, if it's an experimental aircraft why not swap automotive engines. Sorting out water cooling and the motor mount structure, which has to play nice balance and harmonics, is too big of a problem?

is price the elephant in the room? no talk of it at all?

Lots of marketing double speak. It won’t be a factor in the light sport world.

If the quality is as bad as in the Chinese owned Continental motors, no thanks. (C180, O-470)

If its Chinese ,forget it !

Ford blue valve covers boys...

Most every backyard mechanic and upward knows that RTV silicone swells when exposed to gasoline. Geez, I don't mind competition but a flat out CLONE is disgusting! If they are such great engine builders, then why a verbatim clone? Only problem is it's not built Verbatim, copies never are. You are not going to get the exact same metallurgy and heat treating as the original. This is the same sort of crap going on in the small gas engine world where all the small USA and Japanese engine companies are competing against their own designs being built far cheaper in Asia. Our American and European companies get destroyed over environmental regulations which the Asian companies are not subject too so this is part of why this junk is cheaper. I think some of the welding visible in the video looks like crap too. They probably paint the main castings so they can butter up the rough spots with BONDO and cover it up. This guy only buys genuine GM parts for his GM but thinks it's OK to put Chinese clone parts on a genuine Rotax. You just devalued your channel by showcasing this garbage. This is gross, I'm out of here............................................................................

When a market has competition, the consumer always wins! Thanks for sharing Brian! [Edit] If they bring a 916 clone, I'll start paying more close attention. 🤔 [Edit #2] Until I can afford to do anything, I'm just the 🥜 gallery! 😄

CKD ZS Aero Engine - 115HP (CA520T) $27,377.00 Rotax 914 UL - 115HP $37,570.00 Prices as of 7 April 24 on respective websites.

Any one give me a 2 cylinder engine my home made zenith model aircraft waiting for a engine kit

How many would fly behind an AeroVee basically a VW engine.

Never would have touched a chinese engine before, until I bought a chinese dirt bike. I think it may even be a ZD Zongshen. Starts right up and runs like a top. I would seriously consider a chinese Rotax knockoff if the price was right, and parts were easily obtainable. Bonus points if parts were interchangeable with Rotax.

In a go-kart, mini bike, atv, ok. In an airplane.... Not a chance!!

Interesting how the gentleman says when he replaces parts on his GM vehicle he demands to have GM replacement parts not aftermarket part… the engine he is selling is all aftermarket… I would wait at least five years before I even consider one of these not to mention they are not that much cheaper they should lower the price until they build a reputation

Ho Lee Chit !!!

Sounds promising. Hopefully The quality Is up to par. I would love to see a company that makes radials.... (No, not you rotec..)

If the RTV use, in addition to a gasket or oring, is standard production proceedure, I think I will pass on this copy.

Hard to beat a Lycoming engine.

no Aero Friedrichshafen 2024 videos ????

I would use two of them in a twin build. Some redundancy sort of thing. Singles is always scary for my imagination. In fact aircrafts, however small, need to have a minimum of two engines just in case...

The inevitable quality issue was addressed in the clip, time will tell I suppose. EDIT: Feels like a bit of an advertisement, but a rep talking about a product, thats gonna happen.

Serious question... what happens to the end users of these engines, when China attacks Taiwan, like they promise to do? The USA will have to stop most trade with the chinese, and the end users will have an obsolete engine, no?

How are they allowed to clone a rotax

any 915S + + planned from this company?

For the people saying they wouldnt trust a new new engine from china (some having geopolitical tension with them) remember that uou dknt start with a name Lycoming, Continental and Rotax all started where Zhonshen is now. If anything, Zhongshen is starting from a better place because they're starting from a place of advanced knowledge. Rotax had to prove themselves and now theyre revered, give these guys the same chance.

guys, take it easy! the younger brother need the time to approve himself especially when the elder brother is strong and powerful in the family.🤣

He's a GM fan, while at the same time trying to convince us that this engine is reliable 🤦‍♂🤷‍♂

China owns continental too

Is this a licensed copy of the Rotax or IP theft?

When I've got a 10 bob head, I'll wear a 10 bob hat...until then Rotax.

CKD ZS Aero Engine - 145 HP $35, 949.00

I like the engine and the purpose behind it. Any time you can bring down the cost of owning a plane, you have my vote. I had ASTM certification for the job I had before I retired. BTW, I couldn't help noticing the Maule coffee mug. I fell in love with a Maule Rocket over 50 years ago. It was STOL before STOL became popular.

⁠ The Chinese government allows espionage to take technology from countries around the world. They also do not in enforce worldwide patent laws. So it’s typical for clothing and manufacturing items to have exact clones or knock offs made in China. Often on the same factory floor. Chinese companies will then sell those products to third world (sometime the US) countries for a fraction of the retail price, the US and Europe would pay for the original item.

Pass.

I thought it was amusing when the guy says a bead of silicone makes a better seal than an O ring….

Yes, it will be cheap until they put the competition out of business and then they’ll start charging more for something that is worse. This is the Chinese way wake up the Chinese are not your friends.

I love all of the comments about chinese garbage, sure with some things but China also has manufacturing capabilty and quality that rivals North American. It all depends if you want the 50.cent Chinese product or the $2 chinese product. Isn't Continental Chinese? How many other aircraft companies are now Chinese owned? How many parts do you think are sent over from China like he said but built in America? Tons. Make a judgment on the product and not your complete speculation! Aircraft engines have increased 100% over the last 6 years, I can tell you the metal components haven't increased to enough to justify that increase. They are gouging consumers because they can, making record profits. 60k for some of these engines now with 75 year old technology. I hope more competition comes into the market. The engines are made for a fraction of what they are sold for and the current environment has stifled technological advancements. Maybe if they start losing some business it will force these manufacturers to stop raising prices and start developing some newer technology.

No way. But if the Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki developed a engine

Let's put that on a legal eagle

Why, when Rotax change so much, mark uk their spares so much, would anyone not want a similar engine that’s cheaper. Support for this engine will bring Rotax prices down. The guy mentions lack of competition….

This engine will find gap for expermental plane builders; But i don't know is it going to effect rotax marketing or pricing, competation is good for us but too many attempts happens in the past for expermental class planes İ hope they stay in this market for a very long time

Ah China, the land of almost right...

Guarantee you see more of these in drones killing people than in ultralight aircraft killing people.

The bezel on my Rolex is ceracoated. A brighter colored engine is better for maintenance and repair.

When I was 20 years old. About 30 years ago. I went for my a&p. Aircraft mechanic. I needed tools for school. My wife, who was a Fingerhut shopper. Chinese catalog. She thought she was doing me the biggest favor in ordering hundreds of dollars worth of tools from China. I could take a wrench that's 10 inches long and hold it between my hands.. thumb and fore-fingers and bend it in a circle :( Her heart was in the right place. Let me tell you something my friends made in China. It's garbage. They have squinted eyes because they're laughing at you.