@@andrewcook1246 That's such a lazy retort. Lazy because y'all keep insisting rings is all we care about even though millions upon millions of fans will flat out tell you they aren't the only thing that matter. You just choose to say we're lying so you can keep on strawmanning us.
@@bub6010 So we he deserves it despite him being ineligible and injured. So he didnt play enough games and he isnt in the conversation anymore. But he "deserves" it because in a parrallel universe he wasnt hurt lol. Ben Simmons should be all NBA first team then. Give AD Defensive player of the year every year cause when he isnt injured/ on load management he can guard everyone except Jokic. Guess Tmac and Brandon Roy should be hall of famers now cause they were straight ballin before the injuries. Hell add on Greg Oden to that. Only if the no 1 pick didnt get hurt maybe he couldve been an all star They dont need to be on the court anymore. Just give them awards in the hospital, night club or something. They just need to film some tiktoks on the side/showboat on the court to convince casual fans anyway.
And not just losing, but getting the stuff beat out of you in the Finals. Once LeBron was swept not once but twice the Goat debate was over. Don't forget he also los another one by the largest amount of point difference in NBA HiSTORY.
@@donnydutcher3310that’s the problem with sports debates. No one is open to changing their mind and no one will admit when they’re wrong. It’s like arguing with a brick wall
@@chrilpy i compeltely agree. Everytime i see a comments section arguing about it it just turns into clowning the other person, saying Lebum or Jorgambler, and spamming laughing emojis. I think around 0.1% of people who actually argue this stuff have watched games played by jordan and lebron, everyone else are just casuals who look at stat sheets and accolades and act like they know everything about the player now without watching a single game.
Michael Jordan played five seasons without Scottie Pippen 84-85 38-44..First round exit 85-86. 30-52..First round exit 86-87. 40-42...First round exit 01-02. 37-45..out of playoffs 02-03. 37-45..out of playoffs Lebron james has won more playoff Series' than any player in NBA HISTORY Lebron james has been to 10 nba finals. Only Bill Russell and Sam Jones (in a mostly nine team league) have made more nba finals appearances LeBron james carried an absolutely horrific 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers team to the nba finals In the modern NBA era (post 1960) only nine NBA top 75 players have won a championship without another top 75 player as a teammate Rick Barry (1975) Bill Walton (1977) Hakeem Olajuwon (1994) Tim Duncan (2005) (2007) Kobe Bryant (2009) (2010) Steph Curry (2015) (2022) LeBron james (2016) Kawhi Leonard (2019) Giannis Antetokounmpo (2021) As you can see, LeBron James is on the list and Michael Jordan isnt Lebron james has won 17 playoff series, without an nba top 75 teammate. Michael Jordan won ZERO In the year before Michael Jordan and LeBron James joined their team and the year after they left their team, their records were 83-84 bulls 27-55 84-85 bulls. 38-44 92-93 bulls 57-25 93-94 bulls 55-27 98-99 bulls 13-37 without Scottie Pippen 00-01 wizards 19-63 01-02 wizards. 37-45 02-03 wizards 37-45 03-04 wizards 25-57 02-03 cavaliers 17-65 03-04 cavaliers 35-47 09-10 cavaliers 61-21 10-11 cavaliers 19-63 09-10 heat. 47-35 10-11 heat 58-24 14-15 heat 37-45 2013-14 cavaliers 33-49 2014-15 cavaliers 53-29 2017- 18 cavaliers 50-32 2018-19 cavaliers 19-63 2017-18 lakers. 35-47 2018-19 lakers were 20-14 when LeBron James got injured on Christmas day. As you can see When LeBron James joins a team, the team improves more than Michael Jordan and when LeBron James leaves a team, the team always goes into the tank. Michael Jordan, excluding the 94-97 seasons, when the NBA moved the three point line to 22 feet, was a career 28% three point shooter. LeBron James is a career 34% three point shooter Michael Jordan was a great defensive player, in an Era where you could handcheck. Playing defense is much easier when you can handcheck. For nearly 6'9 250 LeBron James' entire career he wasn't afforded the opportunity to handcheck. THE EVIDENCE IS CLEAR..LEBRON JAMES IS THE GOAT!!!!! I have added a Postscript So many have replied, that LeBron james didn't make the playoffs his first two years and Jordan did. What they fail to say is, in 1985, 16 of 23 teams made the playoffs. In 2004, 16 of 29 teams made the playoffs. It was MUCH EASIER to make the playoffs in 1985, as opposed to 2004. Perfect example is, the 1985 86 bulls went 30-52 and made the playoffs and the 2004 05 cavaliers went 42-40 and did not make the playoffs. Also, I don't know, possibly, maybe, Jordan had a HUGE ADVANTAGE considering he played three years of college basketball and LeBron James was 19 years old, and straight out of high school
The reason why titles matter so much in the GOAT debate, and especially it being a big case held against Lebron is because he literally stacked his teams with All-Stars to get to the finals. Once he did that and started his parade of Finals Appearances in the immensely weak (at the time) Eastern Conference, we all saw that was the standard that he was going to be held against. No bs longevity stat-padding is going to supersede that standard that he himself put himself up against.
@@MrMex44 if rings didnt matter wilt would have been the goat back then.. and carmelo anthony would be considered as top 15 player.. many players who didnt win a ring had much better stats than most of the top 10 players
Nick Wright is everything that went wrong with sports today. It's Sports Politics - an abomination that should never exists. Wright essentially works for LeBron. The bias is real.
I am convinced that were it not for the fact that LeBron is too big and strong for the people quick enough to guard him and too quick for the people big and strong enough to guard him, just based on his skill he's average at best.
LeBron is mainly a bulldozer who makes lay ups and dunks - never travels or charges and shoots a lot of free throws. He should win the title at least every other year because he's always on good teams.
@@stevenvox6549 "never travels or charges" - I take it you are blind and listen to the games on the radio, because if you watch them, you'll see Lebron travel and commit offensive fouls often, but because he doesn't get called, you don't hear whistles on the radio. Either that or you don't have a clue what a foul or travelling are.
NCAA championship, 2 time ncaa player of the year, NBA rookie of the year, 6- 0 in finals championships w/ 2- three peats in 8 yrs. and only reason it wasn't 8 in a row,he played baseball 1 yr 1/2, never had to play a game 7, 6 -finals MVP, 5 regular season MVP, defensive player of the year title, 10 scoring titles, 3-steals titles, 3 -all star MVP, 2- slam dunk titles, 2- olympic gold medals championships, hardest worker in the game, no weaknesses, most clutch and buzzer beaters when games on the line, etc,etc,etc...all what lebron wishes he'll be when he grows up. LeBron's been in twice as long as Jordan was and still hasn't come close to his accomplishments...... what is the debate
No one hates Bron because of his basketball skillset and play, but his antics and fragile ego makes it easy to hate on him. We can also credit the media for overhyping him. Bron would be much more respected, if he didn't behave so childish and the NBA media would stop sucking him off.
So you hate him for all the reasons you love Jordan? Cause Jordan whined to newspapers, whined to refs, traded teamates, nixed trades, got rules changed, formed a superteam with a rival and retired rather than not play on a superteam.
i was just talking about this w/ my wife. everybody loves barkley because he was a fierce competitor. he didn't win any rings, but there also is not an hour of fkn footage of him flopping like lebron. it's just like jon jones in the mma vs. mighty mouse, Khabib Nurmagomedov, or Fedor Emelianenko. the legacy is hugely affected by who they are and how they acted. and lebron has acted like a spoiled narcissist the whole time
@@andrewcook1246You must be talking about LeBron that sounds like his career instead of Jordan. If LeBron didn’t cheat the game and formed super teams people would respect him more. Like Kobe
A: stash of gold is more valuable than a mountain of rocks. B: I prefer the weight of that rock mountain and the weight matters in when comparing value.
I honestly could listen/watch a HR and a half uncut hoops video. UR great man. Keep it up. As always thank you posting. I usually enjoy it. I'll see u next time lol
Literally nobody in 11 to 12 years said LeBron had a better peak than MJ but somehow Nick had a epiphany and realized something nobody out of 8 billion people did.
Peak is the first 3peat for Jordan and Lebron never had that. DWade had to teach Lebron how to be a champion. Nothing wrong with that, but Jordan was born with it.
@Augrills Yeah, LeBron didn't play against trash like Jordan did. The Knicks second best player was John Starks let that sink in how bad the talent was in the expansion era 90's
Jordan did a lot more, in a shorter time, with a lot less, in a tougher league. Jordan has 1668 offensive rebounds. Lebron has 1700+ offensive rebounds. It took 21 years for a 6ft 9in SF to catch a 6ft 6in SG in offensive rebounds. Longevity dont mean shit. Longevity and losing the finals was not celebrated until lebron came along. Why? Kareem made it to 10 finals and won 6. Why did Nick not address this?
Also, they are taking and missing more shots in LeBron’s era so assist and rebounds are much easier to get! Yet MJ’s rebounds and assists are almost neck and neck with LeBron with MJ averaging more PPG.
Die hard NBA fan of 40 years here. Saw Jordan come up. Saw Lebron come up. Whenever I watch old footage of Jordan, I feel like I am watching absolute unparalleled NBA royalty. Whenever I watch Lebron, I feel like I'm just watching the best player at the local playground in a random 3 on 3 game.
It's interesting how two different players making a 3-pointer is what makes this a conversation. This isn't even a conversation if the ring debate was 2 for LBJ to 6 for Jordon
if rings doesnt matter then would LBJ fans still pick him as the GOAT if he didnt have any rings? he would be the modern karl malone or a charles barkley the laughing stock of the NBA world
@@11DowningStreet not necessarily there still would have to play a game 7, there's still a good chance Jordan wins game 7. In the Lebron situation it was game 7 if they missed there is no I can win tomorrow.
I’m done clicking on any video that discusses who is the goat between Michael Jordan and LeBron James. It’s not even freaking close. I’m not clicking on these videos anymore. Michael Jordan is the best player we have ever seen!
Lebron just statpadding rather than trying to win more championships. Kobe and Jordan were all about winning, not individual numbers. Also, both those guys actually played defense and played both sides of the ball.
The fact that a quarter century later every star is being compared to the same man should tell you all to need to know. And every time that person is done and gone, they look for someone new to prop up next to MJ. Which means they didnt live up to the legend. 23 years and people are still fishing for new points of views to push Leflop over Jordan. Yet Leflop ain't even in the top 10 of all time. So why do they keep doing this? Why are they so delusional and just admit Leflop simply didn't measure up to their own standards of him?
Every basketball website on earth, espn, every Nationwide poll all have Michael Jordan number one, and these people still can't let it go, it's a religion at this point
Lebum should never be ranked over Kareem, Magic, or Duncan, and damn sure not Michael Jordan. You put any 1A superstar on a healthy superteam they can win a minimum of 4 championships too. LOL. Bronsexuals act like Lebron is the only reason he won but pretend D Wade wasn't the second best shooting guard in the NBA when they won, Bosh was arguably a top 5 power forward, Kyrie was a top 10 guard, Kevin Love was arguably the best power forward in the NBA in his prime and Anthony Davis IS a top 2 power forward in the league right now (if you want to put Giannis as a power forward).
Nick Wrong doesn't realize that if a guy collects rock for 15 years vs a guy that collects rocks for 20+ years, the guy that's been collecting rocks for 20+ years best have more rocks...but he doesn't.
You know what speask volumes.. What is the percentage of people that STOPPED watching the NBA after Mike retired... Count me as one of them.. Nobody is topping Mike..
I want to see someone in the “modern” nba win two three peats just so people can realize how ridiculous it is. I don’t think we’re ever going to see it again. The argument is really that simple.
how many athletes can win champs, retire to play in another professional sport (even though MJ it wasn't a good in baseball), and then come back to do it again?
Never forget that "Entertainment" comes before "Sports" in "ESPN". Not that watching these soulless, lying jock-sniffers is entertaining by any measure.
If the NBA isn't a competition foremost, then why the fuck are any of us watching it, and why would anyone argue that LeBron is the greatest player of all time when it's all now scripted entertainment apparently.
Once again, Uncut Hoops delivers another K.O to this whole BS debate. And we’re not even taking into account Jordan’s 86-87 season where he averaged 37 a game and scored over 3000pts. Wilt is the only other player to achieve such feats.
To give the proper context, the pace was a lot higher in the 80s inflating scoring to a certain extent acrosss the board . The pace the ''highest'' in the 60s which is why you saw the ''highest'' rebounding and scoring numbers . The 2000s had the lowest points per game slower pace and the best ''defense'' so Lebron and kobe actually played in even ore defensive eras
@@11DowningStreet again 87 was higher pace scoring was up across the board in the 80s . Jordan did also play in the 90s slower pace lower ppg which is why his scoring went way down in the 2000s aside from him being older, it was much harder to score in that era . this is why kobe and bron played in a more defensive era and are better scorers.
Anyone that hasn't discovered the Angry Old Hoops Fan channel is missing out. He legit breaks down game footage of LeBalco and his childish antics, it's fabulous to watch.
Hi guys i dont live in america and never watched basketball but even as a kid i knew who Jordan was. I watched the last dance and i was blown away. I am a big sports fan and i recognised Jordan as the force of nature this man was, there is only a handfull of people who have excelled to such a level to transcend the sport they play. The skill and talent of Jordan is incredible but the mentality is what it takes to be the very best, only tiger woods and lionel messi is comparable in my mind. I wish i watched all Jordans games in the 90s and i am jealous of all you fans who lived that. Thanks for the videos
There is no need to over-complicate the GOAT debate because it's actually really simple. Just ask yourself who you would pick to save planet Earth if aliens came and challenged us to a basketball game. You'd pick prime Jordan. Somebody should turn that into a movie.
Nick has to manufacture categories that no one has ever cared about in League history to elevate LeFraud in the GOAT discussion. The ability to eat consecutive tacos as a 39 yo without taking a dump, etc. Seeing him desperately flailing around is so embarrassing for him.
he records alot of empty stats.. scoring 25ppg but only playing 50games is dumb.. plus his longevity season they are a PLAY-IN team at best thats more laughable
Mchael Jordan played more back-to-back games in his last 2 seasons in Chicago, than Lebron has in the last 6 years! Seems that playing in an immensely weak defensive era and load managing, makes it easier to pad the numbers. Go figure!
because god forbid a 38 year old who had the most miles on his body by any player in a 10 year span from 2011-20, get injured when he's 38... just like Jordan in 02 after 3 years away from the game mind you
The things funny about Nick is he has to have all these contingencies to make an argument. We have to say rings don't count, bring up single season/year peaks, count going to the finals versus winning the finals, and counting lebron winning DPOY basically because he was three votes shy. Oh, and then we have to count him winning 27 games straight as a Bron feat and not a Miami team feat but when Jordan wins a 3peat, leaves and they win nothing, then returns and wins another 3peat, we have to say it's a team effort. He's funny to watch. It's like an actor who forgot their lines.
I heard my first Chris Broussard clip maybe a week ago, and I've loved him ever since. I can't believe there are people in the media you can still trust
Why is Nick popular and successful? With most analysts, I can see why they're famous even if I dislike them; they're charismatic, accurate, funny, well-spoken, or even just a pretty face. But Nick is the opposite of all that; the charisma of a T1000, as accurate as a fortune cookie, as funny as Amy Schumer, squeaking ramblings, and a face that says: “I watched you with a telescope last night.”
The years per championship argument won me over. The point of the game is to win the championship, if you didn't then you weren't the best at the game.
Lebron already lost the GOST debate when he switch team 4 times, and one of these time is to join wade and bosh making a superteam( and still lose to dirk)
His longivity only works with total points so they can try to get him up there with MJ. The fact that "pass 1st" LeBron is still 5000 assists behind Stockton while playing 2 extra years and nowhere near top 10 in rebounds, still behind Jordan in steals, 82nd in blocks, and 7th in career ppg really ain't as impressive. You are going to play 22+ years and only be top 5 in two major categories? While after only 15 years MJ is top 5 in total points, steals, career ppg, playoff ppg. And you only lead the NBA in assists 1x and scoring 1x. Cut Bron's career to 15 years and he is nowhere near the top of any list..hence his peak wasn't as great as MJ.
The other factor that few ppl look at is that all the scoring is higher by about 20 to 30 points a game on average in todays lower defense game. So its hard to compare across eras when Michael Jordan's points were scored at a much higher level of difficulty and with defenders in some cases trying to take him out. So there really needs to be an Era Adjustment Factor, call it an EAF. of some kind.. Michael Jordan would score more points in todays game and Lebron would score fewer back in that era.. The fact that Jordan scored 30 plus points per game in that difficult era dominated by big men, and played all 82 games 9 times and 80 plus another couple times is remarkable ,..and ten scoring titles and 9 all defense teams. If I recall I believe that Michael Jordan's 3 point shooting in the playoffs or Finals is as high or higher than Steph Curry's, so this idea that he was a bad 3 point shooter is ridiculous, you could say that he was not as good in his first few years when nobody was shooting them and NCAA college didnt even have a 3 point line in the early 80s... it took him a few years to progress into shooting them more routinely.. By the way Michael was far better than Lebron from age 20 plus on.., he won that Olympic gold medal as a college player while Lebron took bronze at the same age.
@@ryanr20091 he only played a year in it before the Malice In the Palace happened, and all the rules changed to favor softer defense, so yes he did, but not very long at all.
Dean Smith said that Jordan could have easily avg way more points in college, but he had him playing inside of his system. That’s why when he entered the NBA, he exploded.
lol damn right he was. NBA Rookie yr 28.2 points, 6.5 rebounds, and 5.9 assists per game. Dean kept him on a leash. When he got to the league it was on and popping
@@BlackRB21 from Wilmington, NC. Went to the same schools Jordan did. So not really a Jordan fan. Absolutely miserable of a person. But I will say this. Dean Smith defended Jordan for a reason. Dean Smith was one of the best college coaches ever. His system worked. He purposefully didn't allow freshmen to start to get used to playing and getting their education. He purposefully held them back and eased them into collegiate basketball. Why? Cause their education came 1st cause the vast majority college bball at the time never saw the court professionally.
Won't be another player worthy of the goat label until someone goes 7 for 7 like MJ and team went 6 of 6... and have the punishing mentality of an MJ or Kobe
It's not sports it's a religion at this point, these people just can't accept that Michael Jordan is the greatest, and it's beyond hilarious at this point😂
how many 3 peat? lebron is 4-6 in finals.... nba play for championships not stat padding.... barea clamp lebron.... in finals.... lebron lost goat when they loss to the mavs in 11
Am I going to take the 21-year-old All-American, 2-time college player of the year with a NCAA title, a championship winning shot, and a Gold Medal, or the 21-year-old whose been in the NBA for 3 years and hadn't done squat? I'm taking Jordan.
Correct, Nick Wright's argument on the 18-22 year old LeBron vs. MJ is so disingenuous. Yes, LeBron was playing against pro competition on a mediocre team, whereas Jordan was excelling on a excellent college team. Which is better - I don't know, but you cannot discount what Jordan did in college just because he was not a pro yet.
What I can’t stand is Lebron fans hypocrisy with final wins. Theyll say you can’t use rings as a measure for the goat against Lebron because it’s a team achievement but say Lebron has been to 10 finals without using the same logic
This is why Jokic is a threat to his legacy. Lebron fans are trying to downplay jokic to prop up lebron. Jokic wins the chip this year, he will be the only player to repeat with no other all-star. This makes lebron superteam legacy look bad.
@@alfasiger4178 yes and it’s also why I’m rooting for jokic. It’s interesting we talk about lebrons longevity even though his team has been shit last few years while having a top five player in the league on his team. Empty stats
MJ on the Wizards is so underrated! He had been retired for 3 years when he came back…playing on a team of young players of which MJ was the only all-star. He was teaching the team how to win. He didn’t have 3/4 all stars on the team to pass to or get passes from to help pad his stats. In his second season with the Wizards, fighting through injuries, was on track to make it to the playoffs. Had he not been seriously injured…they would have! At no point in Lebron’s career did he ever play on a team where he was the only all star and led his team to the playoffs and taught the whole team how to win. There’s no comparison. MJ is in a pedigree all by himself and the only player close was Kobe. Both shooting guards, who didn’t have huge bodies (relative to the NBA), didn’t have stacked teams and taught their teams how to win…as opposed to importing players who complimented their style of play. They took what was givin to them and made it work. They just out worked everybody.
MJ’s apex was the 1987-88 season. MVP,DPOY, scoring title (35 a game), all star game MVP, slam dunk champ, led the league in steals, and had more blocks than any guard in history. The only player in history to win MVP and lead the league in scoring the same season. You will never see anybody have a season like that again.
I would argue Jordan didn't either. He had Scottie Pippen, who is definitely better than Kyrie and, probably the older Kevin Love. A lot of people knock LeBron for losing 6 finals series. I would argue it is more impressive he's been to the finals 10 times, in both of the conferences. Especially the two that he took the sorry Cleveland team to the finals. He has no help then, going up against possibly the greatest team ever assembled with KD. Everyone knew the outcome of the finals before it started. I can't really count those losses against him. That would put LeBron at 4/8 for Finals series. 50% is definitely worthy of being the greatest all time.
@@Mr.X2188 you are delusional. LeBron played in a very weak East. Even losing 4 times doesn’t make you the GOAT. Jordan three orated twice and NEVER lost a finals. Didn’t even go to a game 7
I have Lebron stans irate for pointing out how many winnable series he lost. They say only 2011, but even if we lied and said that's all, he's still disqualified as GOAT vs Mike.
@@jjohnson4013 Yup Delonte West outplayed LeBron in closeout game 4Q vs Magic, and LeBron all but quit when it got tight vs Celtics. Delonte may have been scoring off the court too, horrible situation.
2015 was winnable. 2014 was winnable. 2007 was winnable. 2009 was winnable. 2010 was winnable. 2011 was winnable. 2017 was winnable (Kyrie outplayed Curry and Love outplayed Draymond). Lebron is the most overrated player in NBA history. Still hasn't passed Kobe or Bird or Duncan (who owned him).
"Coffee is for closers." Mike closed the deal every time he made the finals. Never lost a final, never even went to a finals game 7. Mike gets the coffee.
