Red sold the license to internal compressed raw and red code raw to all the major camera manufacturers… per the former CEO Jarred Land. If your favorite brand doesn’t offer it, they simply don’t want to.
@@angryrabbitproductions1690 citation needed? Red sued Sony in Feb, 2013 for patent infringement, threatened DJI in 2022 that lead to the removal of ProRes RAW from Ronin 4D, and Nikon in late 2022 over Z9. Apple couldn't get the patent overturned. Storage for RED systems NEEDS to be OEM and this crushed a 3rd party storage manufacturer. They are highly litigative over the past 10 years.
If you sell all your hardware for additionally added firmware, then maybe you have a incomplete understanding of the difference between hardware and firmware.
@@angryrabbitproductions1690 Yeah, and Red's grip on the codecs were reaching the end of patent protection, so most people over state their value. I think Land became tired of running Red, quite frankly and sought out Nikon as a likely buyer. They do not manufacture their own sensors and have been increasingly getting pressure in the market from above with Arri and to a lesser extent Sony, and from below with the likes of Blackmagic. Red is a small Californian company and it'll be curious to see how they mesh with the buttoned-down corporate culture of Nikon. I argue that Nikon's #1 immediate goal is for Red not to lose market share in the professional video camera market. The business highway's wayside is littered with examples big and small of failed acquisitions. I think there are still enough nuggets in Red's chest of IP for Nikon to enhance their position in the hybrid video market though quite frankly the video specs for many of Nikon's cameras are quite respectable; they only needed an added emphasis by the muckety-mucks in Nikon's leadership to bring forces to bear to bring it to the fore of the market. Perhaps, Red's acquisition will make the road easier. I am less sanguine about Red's manufacturing facilities in Southern California. I could easily see Nikon shifting manufacturing to the far east to squeeze more profit from Red's apple.
Let’s not forget Red has codecs that give them a certain look that will most certainly be migrated over to the newer z cameras . It’s exciting times for the future 👍🏼
To be honest, I expect Nikon to release a high-end, video-first camera (like A7S3, for example) in the near future. Something like Z63's big brother, but even more focused on video. Z92 and Z82 are going to benefit from that RED acquisition, but I don't know how much since I believe Nikon started the development of those even before acquiring RED. Nikon always knew how to get the most out of sensors they were using, so I really cannot wait to see what's going to happen next. I do hope they will release a strong APSC camera, something like the D500 back in the day.
@PhotoSmithyTechMech_Canada Why would they pay money just to have a trophy? I don't know what are they going to do, but if we look at the past two years, Nikon is going strong(er) when it comes to video and I expect them to up their game with REDon their side.
@@urosjovanovic3142 But no one is using the Z9 (N-Raw) in major productions (agency work, national commercials), so it's hard to see what you can get out of the Z9 with video. Search You Tube and you'll see a lot of wildlife 4K 120fps video from the Z9. So, yes when they add RED RAW it will be a game changer. I think Nikon will co-brand RED's next cine camera and also co-brand the Z9II when it's released. I think we will see Nikon / Red tech move across cine / hybrid lineup like Sony did with the Fx3, FX6 and Burono. This will force others to do the same.
As a new guy trying to decide which ecosystem to get into, you make a good point for Nikon. Given that Red's technology will come to Nikon why not jump into that ecosystem knowing that you will end up some of the best tech on the planet for cameras. And you have 3rd party lenses that Canon doesn't. And Red's stuff is better than Sony sensors. Hard to not like Nikon knowing all of this when jumping into a camera ecosystem as a new user. Something to keep an eye on. Thanks for the information. Been following for a while. My drones keep me busy, but I keep an eye out for when I'm finally going to purchase a good camera :).
Take the time to roadmap the types of lenses you need, the quality needed and then see who best provides what you need, only then look to the camera body.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker Nikon lense mounts are open and Cannon is not. So why should I overpay for a choice Cannon made? Getting Cannon is a bit like getting Apple. You are locked into whatever they do. You are correct, it is about lenses first. Lots of good choices in Zmount.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker I don't buy that. I love Canon and would jump to Nikon or Sony but I need to see if they jump higher than the R1 and R5II with the next body releases. I only use a few lenses and when I settle on moving away from Canon I will buy more lenses. I'm just waiting on knowing 100% which brand I want to go with.
Nikon redemption arc continues. What is standing in the way? Quite frankly it's the price and production at scale of those unmatched sensors in the REDs. Nikon will do everything it can to bring those costs down to where they can put them (or derivatives of them) in consumer and prosumer cameras at competitive prices. Let's face it: most people thought Nikon was somewhere between irrelevant and dead before the Z9. Now? Even the Sony reptilians must be losing sleep. Objects in the rearview may be closer than they appear. The sleeper has awakened. It may be that within 3-5 years the professional ICL camera industry will have been completely turned on its head.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker Another thing to consider: RED spent over a decade on the software side working to get the best cinematic images and performance from those sensors. If another industry competitor had the same sensor tomorrow they would still be years behind RED/Nikon's R&D in terms of how to extract such performance from them in terms of dynamic range, color, high-speed, and low light. I'm sure Nikon sees the opportunity and intends to grab it.
Don't expect the price of those sensors to change much. Red doesn't make 'em and I think their relationship with their sensor manufacturer, a relationship fostered over the years, has gone well enough that Nikon better not mess with that golden goose. I can see, however, Nikon shifting manufacturing facilities to Asia to reduce manufacturing costs, a sad outcome for those workers in Southern California. People speak as though Red doesn't have competitors in the professional video camera market; they do and it is significant.
This is just an observation, people under 35 seem to all be using Sony or some other brand. Most Nikon users seem to be older. I think Nikon marketing needs to do a better job attracting the under 35 crowd.
It's not an age thing, it's simply choosing the best camera. Sony are equal to Canon while having access to cheaper lens. Now Nikon has levelled the playing field with the latest gen
"Most Nikon users seem to be older." That's partially true. But it's because many of them they started photography back when Nikon was the dominant brand for professionals at least.
No, not with today's tech. The readout speed on the Z9 and R1 are fast enough that any ruling shutter won't be noticed, and these cameras benefit from better low light and less noise. However, I suspect that a few iterations from now, Sony will solve those problems. For the R5 II, it's a different story. I don't have it yet, but I expect to see some very slight rolling shutter; but it does have the other benefits of low light and reduced noise. And it also provides twice the resolution. RED shows that a global shutter can solve the issues sony is dealign with. It's just a matter of time before we start seeing a global shutter in more cameras. For me, I don't feel the need for a global shutter yet. The tech needs more time.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker So when do you expect to see the next flagship cameras from Sony and Nikon? Sony needs to catch up with Nikon as the a1 is not as capable as the Nikon Z9. I wonder what the Sony a1 ii will bring to the table and when it'll be released.
@@jonasgillmann "So when do you expect to see the next flagship cameras from Sony and Nikon?" It'll be at least another 18 months before we see a replacement for the Z9.
Red raw would be a pretty incredible option to give to these current crop of Nikon cameras. The N-raw is more processing intensive and larger file sizes for the most part, so from a technical standpoint it seems doable.
7:55 "Readout time of 0" - A global shutter doesn't mean the read out time is zero; it merely means that the light gathering stopped at the same time - It still takes time to read out the data, and that is what determines the maximum frames per second.
I'm still shocked that Nikon managed to buy Red out, especially as I understand the Red cameras use Canon RF lenses, which if true you would think is now dead in the water. Canon caught sleeping?
desperate company trying to compete in video 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 probably , thats what i see . . nikon's is great IMO even without RED . . they just need to improve their AF thats it and im sure they will . . . .
The Canon flagship announcement was a very meh moment for me. I think if there is going to be a revolution, it will be a Nikon camera with Red technology, but I guess it will be at least a year from the purchase of Red before we see the new tech. I guess we may see a new camera that is finally worth the wait. And we may see Nikon rocket to their former throne, never to relinquish it. My one beef with their current offerings is that D lenses won't work with the adapter. Sure, they want to shove customers to upgrade to new glass and make money via that path and I don't blame them. But (as far as I am concerned) they still have not topped their DC lenses for portrait photography. And the 180mm is pure magic, not to be overlooked. The 60mm macro makes special images and you can buy one for lunch money (if you go to a nice place for lunch). There are other special D lenses that I will never part with and have to keep old cameras to use them. It sure would be nice if they would address this flaw when they are doing the next gen cameras.
"And we may see Nikon rocket to their former throne, never to relinquish it." I dunno if they will ever retake the throne again, but I do foresee them clawing back some significant market share from both Canon and Sony. One thing's for certain: they will always remain in the top three.
In general, claims made by a manufacture may not match what is measured in the real world, (or at least measured by CineD). Tests show that the V-Raptor X only has 14.5 steps at SNR=1 (12.8 for SNR 2 ) which is rather less than the 17 steps claimed. Nonetheless that's certainly more than 12 what can be represented in a 12 bit linear codec (without log), but which the R3D format can provide. The RED sensors also do not employ phase shift autofocus, which I believe the current Z9 sensor has. If you look at the spec sheet for commercially available sensor from sony imaging, the video modes of the chips only export 12 bit, but some photo modes export 14 bits and some have fast enough read-out to support 24fps video. So, it seems to me that by only changing the firmware Nikon could improve the dynamic range of the Z9 capturing it internally with the R3D format
It is almost starting the obvious that Nikon is going to incorporate RED technology into Nikon cameras after Nikon purchased RED. Interesting times ahead, but I will stick with Canon as my primary system and Nikon as a secondary system.
Appreciate your enthusiasm, but to be clear, no camera created by Red to date can achieve 17 - 20 stops of dynamic range in the real world. The highlight recovery feature available on Red cameras is more of a gimmick; As it can only be utilized on stationary subject; This is because it is actually capturing two successive frames, with two different exposures and combining them in-camera. Should the subject move, ghosting artifacts will be introduced into the image, ruining the take. Contrasting this approach ARRI and Canon utilize a single image capture and process this single frame at two different gain levels. One optimized for highlight, the other optimized for the shadows. The simultaneous capture removes the possibility of ghosting artifacts. ARRI calls this technology Dual Gain Architecture (DGA), whereas, Canon coined the term Dual Gain Output (DGO). Comparing the Sony A9III sensor to Red’s global shutter sensors: * Sony’s Global shutter sensor is a stacked design - Red GS sensor is not stacked * The Sony Sensor supports best in class Autofocus - Red… Not so much. * Sony’s sensor achieves 9 stops of exposure latitude - Red V-Raptor-X 9 stops of exposure latitude * Power - The Sony sensor requires only 1/10th the power compared to the Red sensor * Cooling - Sony sensor can be passively cooled without the need for a massive heatsink. The Red V-Raptor-X as well as the Komodo series internals are mostly occupied by the giant heatsink and fan. * Requirements suitable for use in compact body * Sony’s design supports full weather sealing, Red make no claim as to weather sealing for any of their cameras FYI: I am a Red shooter for many years… I own Reds and also own the Sony A9III. Imo, the Sony A9III is Sony’s best hybrid model. The sensor technology is second to none. Dynamic range, as measured by the Xyla21 chart, is more a measure of noise reduction. Real world dynamic range… that is how much can be recovered in post, is gauged by the over/under test… AKA exposure latitude. The $6,000 Sony A9III matches the $30,000 Red V-Raptor-X in exposure latitude. I believe Nikon will be better off continuing to purchase Sony sensors. Fun fact: Red does not make its own sensor.
My guess is Nikon will create a new Red Code Raw that’s based on a 12bit codec with slightly less dynamic range but fully capable of the red codec. Nikon did say they will keep the red name so they must create a line between the Nikon hybrids and red cameras.
I know many stills photographer that never switch their z8 from stills to video. They rather use their iphone or a dedicated video camera for video recording. Maybe Nikon can make a dedicated stills camera, smaller, lighter and less expensive than the z8/9 with global shutter and improved af. On the other hand they can make video centric hybrid cameras and use the red technology for top video performance. The good thing on the RED deal is, that they will profit from all the red licensing contracts anyway..
If only pricing could be better adjusted for various currencies. For example, the Z6iii is $2500 US. But that’s $3400 Canadian and I think even worse in Australia. That’s a large and prohibitive difference for many people to overcome. Imagine how sales could increase if pricing could be more of a level playing field.
But they don't include sales tax in the price in the US or Canada, it is added at the checkout. When you convert the current 0.66 exchange rate and add 10% it is a similar price to the cheaper sellers, but it hasn't been properly released yet and you have to wait for supply to catch up to get a good price. It works out to around $4200, I can see sellers advertising $43xx. The Canon R5II is currently $6500AUD which I think is cheaper than the US.
I’m talking pre-tax price. Also, I’m not planning to purchase from the USA so the Canadian price is $3500.00. In Ontario here there would be a 13% sales tax added to that.
Are the National prices determined by the Yen exchange rate. The Dollar is strong over the Yen. Not sure hot AUS or Canadian dollars are compared to the Yen!
Hi Simon, Nikon might indeed have acquired a goldmine. But when using the raptor sensor and crippling the body into a hybrid camera, such Z9 on steroids would cost easily 10k or beyond. When using the Red sensor tech on a pricelevel of the current Z9, it would have to further reduce resolution and/or dynamic range etc ..
For the price to be right, cinema features will be removed, but keep in mind... not too long ago, one needed $100,000 to do basic editing as a business, and it wasn't NLE based either.
@@OrdinaryFilmmaker Cinema features or mostly firmware, and like editing software when scaling from elite use-base to mass usage it's not that difficult to drop the price. But hardware-related cinema features and the sensor spec are harder to offer that much cheaper when produced at a larger scale.
Nikon's issue has never really been sensor performance, though color rendition has always been a bit of a challenge. My old d850 can still hang with the best in terms of DR and low light performance. I have an R5 now and an R5 Mark II on preorder and the absolute image quality is better but not head and shoulders above that old camera. We're likely approaching an era of diminishing returns and very incremental progress in sensor performance - at least anything distinguishable at normal viewing resolution versus pixel level (which no one uses at 45+mpx). Nikon's ergonomics are just annoying and their bodies are bulky and heavy. I also prefer Canon's lens selection.
It will never happen. Why? 1. Power requirements 2. The need to black shade the camera after switching in the camera…. Are Nikon shooters going to wait 2 minutes before pressing record?
Mind blown that the entirety of Red was able to be acquired for 85 million... Why Sony of Canon didn't enter the bidding is baffling. Canon is 10x the size and could have instantly established themselves as the dominant force in video.
Red isnt all that popular in the real world in terms of sales. Cameras are overpriced and sometimes slow or glitchy while lacking basic ergonomics without spending 1000s. That's like saying why didn't Canon or Sony buy Hassalblad. Image quality isn't everything. I never see anyone using Red outside of music videos and half the time they are rented.
Both Canon and Sony have superior sensor technology to Red. The Red highlight recovery is only usable on static subjects. And in the real world those dynamic range numbers are a fantasy. A better test of real dynamic range is the exposure latitude test. In this test the Red V-Raptor-X score the same as the Sony A9III… 9 Stops. Well short of the 12 Stops achieved by the Arri Alexa 35, but still better than everything else. But consider this, the Sony manages this at 1/10th the power requirements. Neither Sony nor Canon need Red’s technology.
The manufacturers often inflate the numbers by quoting absolute dynamic range… not usable dynamic range. Complicating the matter further is the fact that the commonly used Xyla21 test tend to measure noise reduction… not actual dynamic range. CineD came to this conclusion in a recent lab test review. The company that made the test is also now out of business. If you want to understand the real world dynamic range of a camera, that is, how much you can recover in the shadows or in the highlights in post, then exposure latitude is the test you need to watch. When CineD measured the exposure latitude of the Red V-Raptor-X it scored 9 stops. This is higher than every mirrorless camera… except for the Sony A9III, which also scored 9 stops. For reference the Arri Alexa 35 scored 12 stops.
@@johnrpittenger All good Mate. They’re pretty decent, all 3 are very close at this point in time. Best way to check if is to test it for yourself, a lot of the RU-vid specialists have a finger in the pie. Sadly, they’re often driving their own agenda for monetary benefit, to the detriment of photographers. Test it yourself. If you like it, great, if not, there are other options. No camera is perfect, but select based on your requirements and needs. And that differs from person x to y and genre a to b.
@@RobertFalconer1967 Yeah, I have the Zf, z8 and z9, and they are all very decent wrt AF subject-tracking, tbh. Newer cameras are generally expected to perform better vs older cameras, for example, the z9 (and as such z8) platform is already 3 years old, so I would expect the R1 and R5ii to have better AF. But as photographers, we are at that point of diminishing returns, as well as, how much do we want to drive the camera, vs how much we only snap the shot. It depends on us as individuals, hence myself enjoying the Zf with MF lenses significantly more in the street, for example, vs the z8 or z9. For wildlife though, it’s the opposite.
20 stops of DR in video depending on the ISO. Sorta misleading. The inherent noise doesn't go away like magic, the sensor isn't in a vacuum. Changing the operating ISO maybe usefull in video and motion picture. A different story in still photography. Conflated DR. GS aren't new. It's 50 year old tech. Same principal. As readouts approach 1ms. It's irrelevant. The readout will be instantaneous in practicallity. Readout speeds have excelled at a far faster pace than still photographers willingness to sacrifice DR and naitive ISO performance ranges. I predict the 1.0 ms readout to be reached in 2025. We'll be talking about nano second readouts not ms in a year. Still photographers don't simply yank their cameras around forcefully trying to generate rolling shutter. Canon already knows that they've exceeding in reaching 2.7ms, and most likely have already reached the 1ms speed.
I'm happy for all you videographers. Now that you've shifted the paradigm that improved technology in video will improve photography you can all rest easy that video is the only future for imaging. For me, not so much, sorry....
Since Red does not make their sensors, you're making the tacit assumption that Nikon can step right in an scoop up a bunch of global shutter sensors to put Nikon cameras. There's a lot between here and there. I'm betting at a Red shutter will be the last component to make it into Nikon, if ever. Nevertheless, There a whole lotta other technology that Red has under its belt that could benefit Nikon. People's assumption that Red sensors are going into Nikon cameras is more a fantasy at this point. Nothing short of Nikon outright buying Red's sensor provider will sway me from this conclusion.
@@angryrabbitproductions1690 nice joke there chief. The patent is still theirs and now it's Nikon's. New Canon and Sony cameras still have uncompressed RAW formats because of the patent.
The Nikon Z6iii is Really a slow READOUT sensor, yes it's a partially stacked sensor but with that being the case, Canon latest non stacked Sensors are basically almost as fast. Or slow depending on your perspective. So why didn't Companies with deeper Pockets value Red's Technology. Also, is Nikon about to build it's own Sensor Factory and we will now have all the Big Three, building and designing their own Sensors. A recent article I read suggested as much. Canon should make a High MP count, Retro Camera and a stacked R7ii, like yesterday.
The R6ii 14.5ms is slower than the Z6iii 9.4ms sensor readout. R6ii will have more noticeable rolling shutter effects. I'm sure next years R6iii will close that gap.
@@williambuford6136 Nikon claims up to 3.5 times faster then the Nikon z6ii. Which by the way is a very SLOW readout sensor camera. Nor is everyone stating YOUR claim. So no, the Gap is not the same claims by everyone. As REAL folks that are NOT BRAND specific FANS get their hands on production units, only then will the numbers become far more accurate.
@@natureredux1957 Gerald undone already measured the rolling shutter scientifically, and it was quite fast...faster than the z8/z9, and many of the cameras on the market. Z63 is far from perfect, but heavy rolling shutter isn't an issue it has
it's to bad that nikon didn't do most of the important hardware like cmos production and stuff like canon / sony , esp with their top tier camera , instead they have to go with sony and now probably RED ! ( or maybe just their codex ) , it's rather a BALD move or a rather DESPERATE one . . . . im sure nikon fans are dancing in the clouds right now 🤣🤣🤣 , but HEY . . with nikon doing this . . .we'll never know what canon and sony gonna do with it , maybe on of them buy nikon and red instead !!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 . . . the future is getting interesting . . . ., i mean lets be honest here , even if nikon is still doing great , but all eyes are on canon and sony right now and what they are able to bring esp in the video market . . . so that't MAYBE on of the reason , cheers ☺✌
The sensors used in the Nikon Z8/Z9 are patented by Sony. Not Nikon. The RED sensors are manufactured mostly by Tower Jazz. They don't own foundries etc. Did Nikon all of a sudden purchase foundries etc and purchase Sony sensor patents? A missaprehension of how sensor manufacturing works. Sony and Canon can claim to quite genuinely make their own sensors in wholly-owned company facilities. Others, not so much.
