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Nikon Z6 + Z7 Overview Tutorial 

Tony & Chelsea Northrup
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5 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 180   
@MrWillJS
@MrWillJS 5 лет назад
I've been working with the Z6 for about 3 months now and I'm loving it great camera especially for video
@NonFormalEducator
@NonFormalEducator 5 лет назад
Any recommendation for shooting interviews and objects?
@emmanuelchacon8900
@emmanuelchacon8900 5 лет назад
Thanks Tony. You explain as if worried about a friend missing out on something cool. Your kindness has no off button. 😀
@AdamMuise
@AdamMuise 5 лет назад
Thanks Tony, this helped a lot. I have been using my Z 7 for a few months now, I'm experienced, I'm one of those people who actually read manuals and I still learned a lot about the settings. The AF was especially helpful because you saved me a lot of time doing the objective experiments to confirm I was actually interpreting the documentation correctly. Thanks again!
@LEXPIX
@LEXPIX 5 лет назад
I bought the Z6 to get into mirrorless while not having to buy new lenses or batteries from my already growing Nikon stuff. Love it for video and the smaller form factor of mirrorless in general. Great video touching on the main points of the Z series.
@momchilyordanov8190
@momchilyordanov8190 5 лет назад
I bought this camera recently, not my 1st ILC, so I'm not that intimidated, but MAN it's complicated! This video is really helpful. Keep up the good work, sir. You deserve the ton of subscribers here!
@lucyunsworth9108
@lucyunsworth9108 2 года назад
I just want to compliment you... the best overview tutorial. I am new to the Z and to support you I have purchased one of your books for a friend getting started in Lightroom.
@Rubensteezy
@Rubensteezy 2 года назад
One little correction: changing ISO while in ISO-AUTO actually changes the minimum allowable ISO that auto is allowed to pick. This is great for ensuring shadowed areas aren't under exposed in bright scenery.
@10svid
@10svid 5 лет назад
I've probably watched 5 to 10 hours of Northrup photography videos since I stumbled across them 5 or 6 months ago. Great stuff!
@davidlittle2364
@davidlittle2364 3 года назад
Thanks for the video. I've had my z7 for a couple of years, watched many videos & read books & still learned something from your video. Hoping for the latest updated software re-do of this video soon. All the best for this new year, 2021!!
@masterrickknight
@masterrickknight 5 лет назад
This is such a great RU-vid Channel. When I'm ready to move up to a professional camera like the Z7 I will have Tony & Chelsea to thank for helping me make the right decisions. Thank you!
@mullercardenas
@mullercardenas 5 лет назад
Thank you for this information, Tony! I just got my Z6 a few days ago and your tutorial was perfect for getting me started.
@paulmerino2795
@paulmerino2795 4 года назад
Excellent presentation , I just got my Z6 ...had D800. very different . you explained it very well. But I never use Auto ISO. I believe I should always choose the ISO.
@lameroad1569
@lameroad1569 5 лет назад
Keep up the hard work man the Z6 is my dream Camera
@deanwalliss8739
@deanwalliss8739 5 лет назад
Great video! I hired a Z6 (and a Sony A7III incidentally) since I need to replatform from Canon and I want to work out which way to jump. I have each camera for about 3 days, so time is precious. Your videos have saved me hours of experimentation and research. Thanks.
@juliantsestudios8560
@juliantsestudios8560 5 лет назад
what was your verdict between the two?!
@deanwalliss8739
@deanwalliss8739 5 лет назад
​@@juliantsestudios8560 I chose the Sony A7III. I could easily have gone for Nikon, but two things swayed me. Firstly, the choice of lenses in Sony-land was significantly bigger than for the Nikon. I don't have any Nikon glass, so I have no lenses to smooth the transition - I'd be starting completely fresh. Secondly, I really wanted the two card slots for redundancy. I initially thought that the configurability of the Sony would be a big factor, but not as much as I thought. The Nikon isn't as configurable, but I found that all the essentials were close to hand. On the other hand, I thought that the better resolution on the Nikon's EVF and screen would be a big deal, but in practice that turned out not to affect my day to day shooting. I'm aware that as the Nikon system matures, these differences will become irrelevant, so I think they're both great choices. The only other thing I'd say is that I suspect that the future is a lot about computational photography. I think that in the long haul, Sony are likely to be better at this than Nikon, just because of the breadth of their software engineering expertise in other (non-photographic) areas.
@juliantsestudios8560
@juliantsestudios8560 5 лет назад
@@deanwalliss8739 useful info thanks! What did you think about the size/hold of the bodies? Also the speed at which the viewfinder comes on as you put it to your eye? Im finding the lag a little annoying on the Z6, coming from a Nikone dSLR
@juliantsestudios8560
@juliantsestudios8560 5 лет назад
more than just annoying - ive missed moments due to it! Seems when it is recently active, its quick, but if it was on standby, its slow
@Noealz
@Noealz 5 лет назад
Glad you are focusing on these types of videos again - wish you guys the best and greetings from Seoul
@AlexFiliUK
@AlexFiliUK 8 месяцев назад
Very insightful. I can't wait to get started with a Z6 soon.
@obryobry
@obryobry 4 года назад
Brilliant commentary Tony. Just had a Z6 and a Tamron 24-70 G2 delivered, very excited.
@airbnbphotography
@airbnbphotography Год назад
thank you for pointing out the electronic shutter :) I do lot of real estate and each photo I bracket 5 shoots. So since I shoot on tripod I think good idea to shoot silent to limit the 5x times counts on the mechanic shutter.
@Nick-13
@Nick-13 5 лет назад
Tony - great tutorial. I also confirm that the pinpoint focus option is available on the Z6, I use it just about all the time, for the accuracy of focus point. I also learnt that in low light it is useful to switch off the ‘Apply settings to live view’, and perhaps not use pinpoint but switch to Single Point-AF. Good point on switching to Airplane mode when not using the download option. Although I always turn off the Bluetooth connection when not in use, and rarely use the wifi anyway (seems more problematic) - so would have thought with the Bluetooth off (and also the wifi off) that this effectively is airplane mode without having to actually switch to Airplane mode ?
@AlexPower
@AlexPower 5 лет назад
Good cameras, and the best for videography guys that you can pair this with your Atomos recorder and get Prores Raw.
@pieromonteverde3169
@pieromonteverde3169 5 лет назад
Finally what this channel should concentrate on: great, useful, gear and technique tutorials
@philippelefebvre4691
@philippelefebvre4691 Год назад
A really nice kick-off tutorial for the Z7. Thanks
@mcp866
@mcp866 4 года назад
Tip: when in playback, swiping on the bottom of the screen lets you scroll through your photos quickly. One of my favorite features.
@clydehamilton8138
@clydehamilton8138 4 года назад
Tony - as usual, great job re: the Z6 tutorial. Between the detailed covered and the quality of the presentation it was exceptional. I've been a Nikon user for over 3 decades, and after a 3 year switch to Fuji (XT-2) I've come back to Nikon and the Z6. The video helped while I'm setting up my new camera. You mentioned doing an updated tutorial following the 3.0 firmware update. Did that happen? Keep up the great work!
@leskettleboys212
@leskettleboys212 5 лет назад
Just got the Z7 Thanks for this video very very practical !
@lescobrandon3047
@lescobrandon3047 5 лет назад
My observations on my Z7: Using a long F mount lens via the FTZ adapter, turn off the VR on the lens because it with the body VR, it seems to affect the focus badly. Also, I have all three native lenses and so far, the 35mm f/1/8 is the sharpest. With this camera and the 35mm, you have a kit similar to the new Leica Q2 with the ability to change lenses (saving about $2,000 USD.) I have the 24-70 f/2.8 on order which probably will be my walk-around setup.
@johnkaper1129
@johnkaper1129 4 года назад
Tony excellent video , clear an concise tutorial, just bought a Z6 and your video is so helpful!! Tk you
@JasonSmith-sy3ht
@JasonSmith-sy3ht 5 лет назад
So cool you offer these tutorials on the various brands and models. Thank you.
@davidsundbaumphoto
@davidsundbaumphoto 2 года назад
I just got my hands on a used z6 so thanks for this vid Tony!
@mainemonty
@mainemonty 5 лет назад
Thanks for what you do Tony cheers
@blasphemertheseventh
@blasphemertheseventh 5 лет назад
Eagerly waiting for your Fujifilm X-T3 tutorial ; )
@denegrindal1248
@denegrindal1248 3 года назад
Great video, watched many times Wondering if you will update tutorial for Z6II?
@johnford635
@johnford635 5 лет назад
Great job Tony, learned a lot in a short amount of time. Thanks and keep up the great work.
@censhi7
@censhi7 3 года назад
Love your video tutorials. Very informative & non biased. Looking forward to more of your videos :)
@M31glow
@M31glow 4 года назад
Just purchased a Z6, this was extremely helpful!
@juliorolandoeche
@juliorolandoeche 5 лет назад
Thanks so much for your videos they are very informative. I just got my Z7 and I watched your video as I was going thru my initial settings and you saved me a lot of time learning the new lay out on this camera. Thanks
@deekays4
@deekays4 5 лет назад
it looks like this display switch button is a huge advantage to the sony a7iii for example also the menu in common seems more organized... am i right?
@ekimagem
@ekimagem 5 лет назад
Finally ordered mine after tossing over getting a D750. Cant wait for it to show up. That Free Adapter sweetened the pot. Good video. Hoping CF Express gets here soon to drive the card prices down. But ill have to roll with 2 cheap 32GBs for now.
@herbriddle853
@herbriddle853 5 лет назад
Brilliant tutorial on these Z range camera's. I have D7100 and wanted to know exactly what the differences might be -this answered all my questions. Thanks.
@ashleyroy3223
@ashleyroy3223 Год назад
Tony I bet you to do a tutorial for the Nikon Z 7II ❤
@lameroad1569
@lameroad1569 5 лет назад
Man these videos are super helpful
@codyl1992
@codyl1992 5 лет назад
Good stuff. You guys always have nice, well made tutorials.
@RiceAndRun
@RiceAndRun 5 лет назад
it's handy to play around with the shutter speed on Auto-iso when using Aperture priority mode, the default setting is too slow for taking photos of people. When you use a 50mm lens, the camera sticks the Shutter speed ti 1/50 which could be a bit slow for portraits.
@hailynewma9122
@hailynewma9122 5 лет назад
I was playing with the idea of getting a Z6. there is so much to like. The viewfinder, a working touch screen, an ergonomic grip.Now I looked up how much a XQD card costs. (Ironically they are only available from Sony). Now that‘s hard to swallow. 10% of what the camera costs for one card .... I‘ll abstain for now
@ekimagem
@ekimagem 5 лет назад
Some of your local camera shops may still have the Belkins or Lexars In stock.
@aaronlamb7992
@aaronlamb7992 2 года назад
Fantastic class Tony, thanks Bro!!
@theloneviator8222
@theloneviator8222 2 года назад
Very informative, everything now more clear on my z6
@stanw4317
@stanw4317 5 лет назад
Excellent tutorial! It really is helping me get through the learning curve with my new Z7.
@paulgain7275
@paulgain7275 5 лет назад
You can have different settings for U1 to U3 in video. That’s really useful.
@lucyunsworth9108
@lucyunsworth9108 2 года назад
Thanks Tony, I really dislike exposure compensation on the back dial.... how can that be changed!!!! And thank you as always for you great reviews.
@russellschundler6559
@russellschundler6559 5 лет назад
When doing focus stacking, I use the touch screen to manually pick places on the rear view monitor to focus on. The Nikon Z7 has settings for the camera to do focus stacking automatically. Can you explain how the focus points are selected in that automatic mode? It seems by doing the selection of points manually, fewer images can be taken to accomplish the task. In auto focus stacking mode, it seems many more "just in case" images are captured. On the other hand, manual selection of each focus point is more deliberate, but more time-consuming.
@carlweiderick
@carlweiderick 3 года назад
Thank-you for a very helpful and informative video. I just got a Z7 and this has been a great 'quick start' especially with the differences from the DSLRs.
@SameerEnrique
@SameerEnrique 4 года назад
thankyou sir for the video....it helps me alot :) :)
@TonyAndChelsea
@TonyAndChelsea 4 года назад
Glad to hear that!
@lv8pv
@lv8pv 5 лет назад
Tony do you're Z6 do This ? I just bought the Nikon Z6 and the 24-70 2.8 S-Line lens.. I've noticed something strange, when I have the cover for the mic and headphone open, and then zoom the lens inn and out. It blows air out of one of the inputs. Do this mean it also is sucking air in through it when I zoom the barrel out ??? Sounds like a dust and moisture problem
@reubencana
@reubencana 2 года назад
Great video Tony. Just got a Z6 ii and wondering whether you have a video that you go through setting up all the necessary functions the way you had for the DSLR. Thanks
@Altitude2011
@Altitude2011 5 лет назад
I would like to point out that it would great if Nikon will enable us to have an "arrow" at the bottom of the electronic viewfinder as it is the case for the D850, so we are sure that the "horizontal" lines are horizontal, without having the virtual horizon in the electronic viewfinder, which is quite anoying but at the same time very important, since at this stage it is the only way to make sure that the "horizontal" lines are horizontal.
@soulreaver19802001
@soulreaver19802001 5 лет назад
Thank you very much for this video. Got to learn a few things about my Lumix G70 (especially the dials).
@EricTobiasPhotography
@EricTobiasPhotography 5 лет назад
Am i missing something? In the timelapse section you picked the same option for making a in-camera timelapse movie and shooting stills for a stitching together a timelapse. I didn’t see you chose any different options.
@scottstephens7119
@scottstephens7119 5 лет назад
Glad you saw that too. Had to re-watch it three times to make sure I wasn't losing my mind.
@johnmcneill923
@johnmcneill923 5 лет назад
Wonderful!... many tanks, Tony! Learnt lots and closer to getting. “Z6”...
@cohoonatube
@cohoonatube 5 лет назад
Great content, Thanks Tony! Would love to see an update for firmware deux. I think perhaps the XQD card point is a moot point as it would be just as expensive to run out and buy 10 UHS-2 SD cards, though the availability, and card reader are valid considerations... though somewhat offset by the card’s robust makeup and speed. The LUMIX S1 did it right. Having returned an RP, and rented an A7iii, I think the Z6 will be the camera I get. Keep them coming!
@JoePhotoByJS
@JoePhotoByJS 5 лет назад
Thank you so much for the awesome video... Spent 30 mins playing before I had to charge the battery and this held me over while I waited and also answered my question of how to enable back button focus 😁 that button on the side of the evf... Ty! I didn't like the back screen on all the time. Consider me a Iaggard with change and I want it to be like my D750 a bit still 😁
@paulmorrall5719
@paulmorrall5719 5 лет назад
Thanks Tony, really succinct transfer of info, great job.
@nikanj
@nikanj 5 лет назад
I see you still have your Steve McCurry Nikor lens. Can't blame you, it's a great lens!
@hicrhodushicsalta6648
@hicrhodushicsalta6648 10 месяцев назад
Great!
@scottweaverphotovideo
@scottweaverphotovideo 4 года назад
VERY helpful. Thanks so much!
@hobbytake2845
@hobbytake2845 5 лет назад
Well done Tony!
@meriton932
@meriton932 3 года назад
good. thanks.
@JeffWelcherMedia
@JeffWelcherMedia 5 лет назад
Boom first and happy to be. Keep up the great work guys.
@mariuszbiegaj2391
@mariuszbiegaj2391 5 лет назад
I've tried Subject Tracking in a store and had no issue to activate it using EVF so no zombie-mode required. However this way of working reminds me cheap point and shoot cameras.
@davidkrugs6466
@davidkrugs6466 3 года назад
Thanks as always Tony, another great video. I'm thinking of getting the z6. I've got a d500 with 2 tamron lenses will the nikon adapter work with the tamron lenses, don't want to get new ones. Thanks again.
@beverlybasden2648
@beverlybasden2648 4 года назад
Thank you!
@callline7183
@callline7183 3 года назад
Would be nice to have a Firmware Version 3 update on the Eye Focus
@Altitude2011
@Altitude2011 5 лет назад
For tracking subjects, I use AFC and dynamic-area AF. For example, recently, I took pictures of a friend skiing and it worked fine. But, if the subject does not move, I use AFS all the time. Why? Because when I focus, the focus point gets green, which is very convenient, whereas in AFC, the focus point remains red (by the way, Nikon, please give us a firmware update on this, so the focus point gets green when we are in AFC).
@zaf9834
@zaf9834 5 лет назад
Dynamic is only on continuous focus only.
@DarrellYoung
@DarrellYoung 5 лет назад
Going green means that the autofocus has locked focus on the subject. However, AF-C never locks focus, it constantly updates focus, so it never turns green.
@LongShadow12
@LongShadow12 5 лет назад
Ah, so AF-C and Dyno-AF is working, it just doesn't give you any feedback that it is actually working. :) Good to know!
@zaf9834
@zaf9834 5 лет назад
I have started using the z7 reg its pretty good camera.
@dperreno
@dperreno 5 лет назад
Great tutorial. Do you think the reason why the aperture only closes down to f5.6 and then stops is for AF - if it closed down too far then the AF system might have more difficulty in operating, either because of too little light or too great of apparent depth of field? I'm not sure if that applies to contrast-detect AF or not, TBH.
@alextabatabaei507
@alextabatabaei507 5 лет назад
Hi tony great video as usual. I bought a Z6 few weeks ago and I love it. However I found two annoying thing. Sometimes when I’m trying to change the aperture I turn of the camera instead since the switches are next to each other. I also noticed that the focusing square on the back screen is not centred sometimes and I have to centre it again.
@wintersthrall
@wintersthrall 4 года назад
Hit the ok button. Sets the focus area back to center.
@aaronlamb7992
@aaronlamb7992 2 года назад
Do you have a class on Z6ii U modes??.. This I’ve found a little confusing. I’ve only had the Z6ii less than a week and have become obsessed.. Lol..For me it seems some things are very different than the DSLR.
@TheQuixoteloco
@TheQuixoteloco 4 года назад
Tony, thanks for the excellent video as always! Will there be an updated version with the new firmware 2.2 ? I purchased the new cfexpress card to see if there would be a buffer clearing improvement in extended high but it seems to be about the same.. would like to hear your thoughts on that as well as the AWB changes. thanks!
@tonylongbui3654
@tonylongbui3654 Год назад
Great
@airbnbphotography
@airbnbphotography Год назад
how does the silent function work? so the Z6 has both shutters, also electronic shutter? I thought only the Z9 has digital shutter ?
@gosman949
@gosman949 3 года назад
I just bought the z6 used and have a big question for the commenters. My DSLR Pentax, when in aperture mode, will fix the aperture but allow me to rotate the shutter dial independently. The Z6 in aperture priority, will fix the aperture, but will not allow me to move the shutter speed. Is this what mirrorless cameras do?
@mortenpedersen5625
@mortenpedersen5625 5 лет назад
Great video, but I thought that You might would write your U1,U2,U3 setting , so we had a place to start kindly
@2009jloc
@2009jloc 4 года назад
If you use the usb-c cable to charge the Z, can you connect the cable to any transformer?
@tausilber
@tausilber 4 года назад
Thanks for taking the time explaining all of this in such an understandable way! However at 4:40 I had to stop and wash my eyes with soap because that kerning hurt so so much! 😭
@tonyzoet638
@tonyzoet638 3 года назад
just got the Z5 - will you have a tutorial on the Z5
@Talyessin63
@Talyessin63 3 года назад
From what I've read it's the same as the Z6ii.
@donnawetter1513
@donnawetter1513 5 лет назад
Hey, are you guy going to review the Nokia 9 Pureview? Its the 5 camera (3 RGB and 2 monochrome sensors) to one RAW photo phone, it has impressive shadow recovery capabilities but also some flaws, but its interesting.
@justicewarrior9187
@justicewarrior9187 5 лет назад
Sony xperia 1 is better
@Peace-ju9us
@Peace-ju9us 5 лет назад
When will the next gen software be released, or better yet the camera with the next gen software already on board???
@goldivox50
@goldivox50 4 года назад
Tony, hopefully you’ll do an update for v. 3 firmware
@duncanwallace7760
@duncanwallace7760 5 лет назад
A Nikon rep at a trade show had 'zoom to 200%' mapped to one of the two function buttons next to the lens. It wasn't an option for me and he couldn't work out how he had programmed it when I asked. If anyone knows how to put non-menu option onto those two buttons, it would be great if you could share the secret!
@SRStrontium
@SRStrontium 5 лет назад
awesome!
@bebitonenita65
@bebitonenita65 5 лет назад
Weren’t these 2 giving these cameras thumbs down? Lol. So glad I bought a Z7
@DarrellYoung
@DarrellYoung 5 лет назад
Be careful, remember, photographers are a toxic community, according to Tony.
@FlyinRyanProductions406
@FlyinRyanProductions406 5 лет назад
Robert A I love my z6. I have a D850 too. I’m waaaay happy I didn’t listen to RU-vid rhetoric.
@exert2020
@exert2020 4 года назад
Did the dof workaround get a fix? I've just got a z6 and it doesn't require me setting dof preview button to fn1. I can see live the dof change when I alter the apature on my manual lens. Am I missing something?
@iansmith2580
@iansmith2580 3 года назад
QUESTION: Will the 15b battery charge in the regular 15a charging adapter? or are they USB charge only. I currently have a 810 dslr complete with chargers. Thanks ian Smith
@jonbarnard7186
@jonbarnard7186 5 лет назад
I wish Nikon would take a page from Olympus and add "live time" and "live bulb" to the time and bulb settings. This could be done in firmware. This is a wonderful feature if you shoot long exposures. I'm not sure why all mirrorless cameras don't offer this.
@Greggie_D
@Greggie_D 5 лет назад
Lol! Asking him to say something positive about Olympus. Don’t hold your breath. But I 100% agree with you.
@jonbarnard7186
@jonbarnard7186 5 лет назад
@@Greggie_D I own both these cameras. The Z6 is an EM1 with a large sensor and some of the best features removed. They feel very similar in action. Olympus could learn something from Nikon as well. How about a "my menu" or some kind of programable feature like the i menu Nikon uses, or the Q menu Fuji uses. This could easily be done in firmware.
@KTM333
@KTM333 5 лет назад
Appreciate the video, my z7 gets here tomorrow. The video on the D810 got me going years ago and it was the first video I watched on this channel.
@mjcz5853
@mjcz5853 4 года назад
Quick question please. I’m on the fence, Nikon Z6 or the D810, great price. I’m a long time Nikon shooter with a good deal of lenses and equipment. I shoot primarily portraits, small weddings, etc., some landscapes. Thanks
@wintersthrall
@wintersthrall 4 года назад
I'm choosing the z6 over the d810. Like you, I shoot mostly events, weddings, and portraits. The z6 has better (almost noiseless) low light high ISO, the silent shutter, and now the eye autofocus. For me, the Z6 is a no brainer, even over the the d850. I have f-mount lenses, including the manual Nikkor 300mm f/2.8 ai-s--now, with the FTZ adapter, I get VR on all of them. Nikon has come far since the d810 was release 5 years ago.
@micahturner5599
@micahturner5599 5 лет назад
Is there a way to customize the dials? I use milvus glass, which means a physical aperture dial on the lens. Can I reassign the aperture dial on the z6 to the iso control?
@terrynewmanphotography
@terrynewmanphotography 5 лет назад
Thanks for the video. What’s the best method to transfer Raw files to an iPad, the lightning one not the USB-C one. Snapbridge?
@dmphotography.prints
@dmphotography.prints 5 лет назад
Have you found an issue with hot pixels? I shoot Z7, max bit Raw+Fine JPEG and definitely see them across entire ISO Range with more hot pixels the greater the ISO. Thx for the video.
@texasmarshalls
@texasmarshalls 4 года назад
Hi Tony - can you recommend what the low/high auto ISO settings should be set at? I have noticed my auto ISO turns red at times (i am assuming it is going beyond what i have set at default)?
@philipjacob5878
@philipjacob5878 5 лет назад
Tony, Thank you for this video. very helpful. I have two questions. (1) Z6 has lense calibration (back focus / front focus) option in the menu. how do you calibrate the native lenses with this Z6. (2) Z6 or D850 you recommend for outdoor portrait works and small weddings / events?
@NikolajFreiesleben
@NikolajFreiesleben 5 лет назад
With Z6/Z7 you dont need to calibration. Its only on Dslr you need to do that. You can Google it..
@TonyAndChelsea
@TonyAndChelsea 5 лет назад
Right now we still recommend the D850 for portraits.
@martinwolter
@martinwolter 4 года назад
If sound is switched off then the flash is silent too... I learned this when I tried to return a flash because it was broken. No, it was not. (maybe there is another option that I am not aware of)
@TonyAndChelsea
@TonyAndChelsea 4 года назад
Good point. The flash doesn't work with the electronic shutter, and when it's in silent mode it uses only the electronic shutter, so the camera disables the flash. You'd think the user interface would warn you about that...
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