Nobody Will Win The Hollywood Strike 

Right? Literally and figuratively, the first grand show from the first grand streaming service

That entire show was also a house of cards thanks to Kev Spacey

Its like the fall of the Roman Empire, it took awhile for it happen, but eventually the effects accumulated over time and asserted themselves.

I'm pretty sure that if the fall of streaming took as long as the fall of Rome the companies would be EXTREMELY happy with that

He should have edited in a purple kevin spacey when he said it.

I'm pretty sure Disney could replace Bob Igor with a PlayStation and the result would be an improvement. 🤖

AI isn't designed to be useless.

I would replace the CEOs with a magic 8 ball and it will be an improvement

You can write a movie script in bum****nowhere. When Hollywood/CA pushed lockdowns God forbid they also dropped cocaine board meetings for pitches

Breaking News CEO’s decide not to replace themselves. It’s awful, but not strange.

No, Tiktok will not win. RU-vid FOREVER!

Now imagine if some of those striking writers won't get re-hired and then join TikTok channels' teams. If they would make more money then Hollywood will be outcompeted.

Wasn't 2008 the year of Iron Man 1 and Batman Dark Knight?

Gaming is getting a strike soon too.

​@@kavkySo? Those only consisted of a few writers and creators.

Im assuming that if they did reveal the true figures for streaming services they might scare the investors with underperforming insanly high budget shows/movies.

I find baffling how investors don't know the real numbers of streaming viewership. I know most investors are rich old men that don't understand technology and easily fall for buzzwords, but if I would be giving my money to a company expecting a return later, you bet I would want to see *what* I'm actually investing on. These streaming shows also devalue the brand of Disney, affecting their merchandise and parks businesses. The more shows and movies you pump about an IP, you remove that magical aura around it. There's a real why classic Disney movies were called "the untouchables" internally for decades and why so many execs were against releasing them on home video and TV. A lot of Marvel and Star Wars toys are left dusting on stores because no one buys them, not even collectors.

I suspect they've been lying for a long time if they do reveal it they'll get sued into the dirt.

Personally I think they need to put everything back on Netflix again, but that's just me.

@@SmegmaGoblin Yeah, this is the big thing that's kind of hanging in the air that would make it lose/lose for both sides--that if the actual figures are released, it's going to show that the figures aren't as big as everyone expects. That not only demoralizes the investors, it ALSO makes it harder for the actors and writers to claim that their residuals are too low, because the residuals are actually being calculated from those deflated figures.

i think the fear of these gigantic company is that people will know the data of these streaming service if they decide to do residual or at least will give someone an ability to approximate data for the streaming service better

a lot stuff now isn't sold like that though, its being made by the same company doing the streaming

that doesnt work if the people who made the show also own the streaming platform, wich is the case with disney plus and amazon something

​@@deathpony698 Yeah, it would have worked fine when Netflix was the only big name going, and not producing its own content yet, but now that everyone wants a vertical integration, there's no negotiation to help quantify things.

⁠@@danang5Bruh… You really didn’t read a single word they said?

I don't think it would happen how you imagine. Real assets don't cease to exist when an industry collapses, they just tank in value... then get bought up & consolidated. The people at the top generally land well on their feet when a bubble pops (some exceptions, but generally), its the people just doing their job that lose. Suddenly there's all these people with skills that are no longer in demand, all situated in a place with some of the highest cost of living in the world, which already has an existing homelessness problem. And this is assuming the larger US economy isn't significantly affected. Edit: As someone who usually gets into arguments with left leaning people, some of these replies read pretty funny.

​@@prw56thank God they live in homeless camp cities they voted for. They can finally reap what they sowed if they're that hard up for money

@@prw56 Well said, even during the 2008 crash, the top brass of the banks still got out with millions in bonus/bailout, whilst the lower strata, the average person, got royally fucked over

​@@prw56consolidated into a bunch of companies we don't watch or care about? That's winning. Let it burn

​@ZMCFERON There's no reason to be happy that sound crews, cameramen, set construction workers, vfx artists, stage hands or any other sort of underpaid media production staff will lose their job or even career. That's just cruelty for cruelty's sake

Disney already owns 2/3 of Hulu, with Comcast (NBCU) owning most of the rest. Where'd you see that they are obligated to buy out the minority stake? What they are definitely screwed by is the remaining debt on the Fox acquisition, plus the theme park expansions pre- & post-Covid. The House of Mouse is up to its ears in debt.

​@@mandisaw It's part of the contract agreement Comcast and Disney have. One made, I believe, during the fox purchase in which Disney gained majority ownership thanks to buying fox and their 30%. Part of the contract stipulates that Disney has full control over hulu AND that both parties can force the majority party to buy out the rest. Comcast, Disney's competitor, triggered this and is forcing Disney to buy. Comcast wants to sell for 21 Bil, but at the minimum Disney is forced to buy at 9 bil. And this is set to take place at the end of the year. Both are in talks for the exact price, but its clear that no matter what; Disney has to buy hulu.

Yeah i mean disney is "strapped for cash" in the business sense but paying actors what they demand literally takes like. 1/4 of igers ceo salary. the problem is not the money.

@@NotSpecialDude Got it. Not sure what the play is there - NBCU/Comcast is rumored to maybe make a play for WBD when it's available next year. But I don't think they have the cash, or frankly the know-how, to pull that off & make Warner Bros a success again. Ditching Hulu when it's more profitable & has more eyeballs than their own Peacock seems like a bonehead play, unless I'm missing a piece somewhere...

@@mandisaw I think it was a measure akin to a controlled explosion. The contract stipulated that both parties could force the buyout. Disney was just as able to force Comcast to sell. And since Disney is a big competitor, Comcast probably cut their losses and chose the most inopportune time for Disney to force the buyout. Currently, Disney doesn't have a billion in liquid cash. Most of is in their stock, which is has reached record lows and shows no sign of slowing. Comcast is gonna have a lot of shares by the end of this.

If the little scraps of residuals the writers and actors get from streaming platforms are anything to go by, this goes to show how very few people actually watch content on streaming platforms from beginning to end.

@@bluestar5812 Except the little scraps is effectivly zero so they are not something to fgo by, otherwise the demands would be for more publishing on cable or DvDs

Both the executives and the writers/actors all deserve to be broke living on the streets

@@redbullsauberpetronas Well that is very much the case for the Writers and Actors, why do you think they are striking

@@ConnorLonergan Ask SAG. They turned down an 11k per writer deal because they didn't get their ludicrous writer's room demand.

we dont even know if netflix is actually still doing well considering they could also fake their numbers

@@MrTorterra10 They've been proitable in the billions for years, that's not something you can easily fake. I mean enron was able to cook the books, it can be done, but I think they're fine.

​@@kingofhearts3185Not true, actually. Netflix benefitted from being valued like a tech stock, not "old media", so their *valuation* has been super-high for years. Actual profit took a long time to achieve in the streaming era, and has been very modest, except during the pandemic.

True, but I don't think profit was actually the goal. 1- Netflix is treated by Wall St as Big Tech, with a stock multiplier to match. Media companies could 5X their valuation just by getting the St to view them through the same lens. 2- In the US, cable/sat companies are actually prohibited from sharing detailed viewing data with content companies (or advertisers). Nielsen gets its cable data the old-fashioned way, through sampling/surveying households. But with streaming, you have all that data yourself, and there's little/no regulation on how it's used. Even better if you make your own content, and have ppl make profiles, you can get finely-detailed market data on every viewer x show, down to when, where, what, and how they watch. A treasure trove of data to use or sell as you will.

​@@MrTorterra10True. But I think netflix will survive while other streaming platforms crash and burn.

No

​@@futurestorytellerwhy not?

@@cubirk They are obviously more profitable than ever - and several models demand that poorer users pay them an unreasonable subscription fee while burdening them with ads anyway. Pretending that none of them receive any money from advertisers while Netflix is currently attributing a rise in subscribers (despite an initial loss in viewership, over a supposed password "crackdown") mostly to their ad tier gives off PR astroturf vibes

This is exactly it. With modern technology (streaming, pirating, etc.) and the rise of other forms of entertainment like gaming and RU-vid, TV and movies just aren’t as profitable as they used to be

…what? Obviously there’s no ad revenue. They make the money from subscription fees and they are making more money than ever. Imagine being so confidently wrong

Billionaires shouldn't exist. Every problem Humanity has is because of them

Hollywood will survive the nuclear holocaust or sun going supernova. It won’t collapse. It will change.

This process is already happening with RU-vid etc. Covid accelerated it massively. I personally have not entered a theatre since covid started.

​@@exeggcutertimur6091given the implosion on Linus Media Group, I doubt the RU-vid game is sustainable.

So long as there's a way to make sure we get less nepo babies creating literally every piece of media I'm all for it.

Exactly the consumer will always win because they can try and balkanize and jack up prices but the consumer will just pirate and find ways around that. They just need to go back to having a few services and not have us pay for 20+ streaming services just so we can watch a few shows that a decade ago would have been on 1.

Streaming has only existed for the last decadeish

​@@visceratrocarhe is talking about the streaming wars that began in the last 2 years of the Obama admin due to a "law" (in reality a monopoly plot) called Net-Neutrality which only made the internet less Neutral and big corporations paid the same rate as individuals. Now that complete POS law was removed, the artificially low maintenance cost are no longer there and with the economy as it is, may bring an end to the streaming wars in which Prime, Netflix, and AppleTV become the big three..... what a curses timeline we live in, Jesus please get Ezekiel to blow the horn, I want off this wild ride.

It's time to take to the high seas again boys! We're going pirating!

There's no reason for so much of the entertainment industry to be in one place anymore with technology being what it is. The only thing keeping it alive at all anymore is going all in on sequels/reboots/etc. The film industry is fucked and it wants to pretend like it's not.

@@SerebiiWarrior It's for community and networking and always has been. It's the same reason tech is still largely in the Bay Area even though everyone is working remote now (or when it moves it still congregates in Austin or Seattle).

That, and now South Korea media and Japan's Anime takeover.

Disney cut The Sound of Freedom loose into the indiesphere and it came back to bite them, mauling Igor's offerings to embarrassing deaths. 😂 It's not even about politics, it's Igor repeating Disney's mistakes from decades ago when they passed on the distribution rights to a little indie movie from Golden Harvest, The Jim Henson Workshop, and Mirage Comics called *Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.*

@@eegernadesBut people who DON’T live and work in Japan and Korea should be allowed to pursue jobs and succeed in entertainment too.

This is definitely my mentality. If they're forcing me to go homeless, the least I can do is go down fighting.

I can't believe you're actually comparing the HK protests to defend their democracy to this Hollywood strike

They deserved to be treated bad their writing sucks

@@enterthenameyo Just because something isn't perhaps of the same severity to something else doesn't mean that drawing comparison to the bigger scope thing can't be used to better understand the nature of the less smaller scope one.

This sort of strategy is often referred to as the "Samson Option".

Only Amazon could do something like that

And despite everything spent, they couldn’t get the writers to give it their all. And it’s a shame too, the parts covering Numenor, Durin and Elron, & a good bit of the Mordor plot was interesting. The pacing and disjointed narrative was too much for the good bits to overcome.

@@pjmetzen3483 the pacing? Disjointed narrative how? it was great. Easily one of the best shows from last year by far

​@@pjmetzen3483they couldn't even get half decent costume designers. It all looked like cheap plastic and 3D prints.

​@@TheCatLoverLordif Rings of Power was the best show by far that year, everything else must've been literal dogshit. Even if you like the show, it got completely blown out of the water in terms of quality by House of the Dragon.

No the consolation is what makes it so productive, industries in general get way more efficiency when they are close together due to agglomeration effects. If your a good writer you can shop your skills to a dozen different places until you find the best fit, if you hate your job you can change jobs with same industry without moving. Same reason tech companies just do better when based in Silicon Valley. If Hollywood spread across the country we would get fewer worse shows for more money

​@@calebweldon8102yeah, sure, once upon a time, but now? With the MARVEL that is the Internet? No, get those studios out of Cali and scatter them 'cross the states!

They got fired?

That would require self awareness, which most writers and actors lack

Are we living in the same universe? The only thing these writers and actors deserve is to be fired out of a cannon into the sun.

@@ZMCFERON Which undermines their ability to write and act.

​@autobotstarscream765 and without AI there was no external pressure to alter behavior

I hear that!

As an underpaid worker with higher goals to pursue, that would be the end of me and many many more

But then again, the US is not the world, so unless the whole world shuts down their own movie industries, that won’t happen

"Why does my avocado toast cost $30?"

The writers suck they don't deserve pay to begin with

"consumers are more media literate" *looks in the general direction youtube grifters who make millions on peoples media illiteracy* I wish that were true :(

@@WizWiteKnight yeaaaaaaaah I know I get the sentiment but... At least teaching media literacy is becoming more commonplace. At the very least, schools near me in America are "discussing" how to teach media literacy. Probably wont happen but that's a whole other topic. I like to think those of us who have grown up with the internet are more media literate than our grandparents, but that's not something I can really prove.

Writers have a livable wage already. Basically the fight is over MORE money. They should switch their goals to increased wages, not residuals that won't pay anything out.

'source: trust me bro' nah, I'm going to trust the workers @@3dApe

except for the part where most media has never had merch

Yeah because no one else lives in a mint based society but them. Thank goodness we don’t need money. Oh wait

Since when? It's either pushing govt propaganda (pre 1930), then commie bulls&>/, then hippie bulls&>/, now progressive bulls&>/

@@ZMCFERON since the inception of Hollywood in the motion picture business. They settled down there because they were evading paying for Edison's movie patents.

4 comments 2 visible

@@trajanfidelis1532 yea it's getting insane these days with hidden comments

Animatrix Million Machine March moment (O -o)

@@0neSillyG00sethat poor robot girl that got her face smashed in :(

I can't wait for ​@@0neSillyG00se to genetically alter their arms to have sentience!

You’ll have to wait until the year 3000 for that at least!

Making Disney plus even more of money sink still doesn’t help

That would basically force them to cut back or shutdown everything. It would be good for whoever's left, but a lot of people would be left in the dust. Not a bad thing to me, but worth considering the fallout.

Exactly. These streaming companies have been getting away with this for too long.

Lol what

I have seen a crap ton of #mockbusters already.

No, a business solution is actually warranted here. Investors aren't being misled, the top-line numbers are all being reported, it's just not clear how that translates into subscriber & viewer numbers. Nielsen worked because it provided mutual trust between advertisers & networks. They didn't just take self-reported data, they ran their own data-collection - "Nielsen families" - so everyone could trust their results. Ironically, now that a lot of streamers are going ad-supported/ad-tier, they're reporting to Nielsen again. So maybe we're just gonna come full circle.

i believe stock price of many of the streaming giant would tank hard if that were to happen, it's not a secret that all of them are bleeding money

Stop giving power to the nanny state.

​@@trajanfidelis1532Why? Nanny state wouldn't be necessary if the companies in question would just give out that data. Why would they? It makes little monetary sense to give consumers that data lol.

Which would burst the bubble and lead to even less money for writers and actors.

And what was that?

Jesus Christ, that’s horrible. Sorry you have to deal with that

@@PurlaneMauve Thanks for your concern. It's nice to know some people sympathize with us while these comment sections are just full of people wishing unemployment and homelessness for me and my peers.

Perhaps it’s because writing rooms are generally kinda shit Having all writing rooms require more than 4 writers would most likely result in a shitload of disjointed, unusable scripts, trying to explore many writers’ visions, and not having the space to flesh out any of them

If you have 2 genius writers and you throw them into a crowded writer's room with 8 mediocre writers and give them the same pay and benefits you end up with 10 mediocre writers.

@@D_Dupa You genuinely don't know how rooms work, then.

What is the vid called? Can you summarize

Which video is it?

Regulations apply to the crew, the technical aspects. But it's no harder to become an electrician for TV/movies as it is for residential/commercial. As for the folks like actors, writers, directors, etc, the problem is supply vs demand, plus networking. Most people hire who they know, and have worked well with before. Your reputation is everything, and people can be wonderful, or wonderfully petty. Talent is a minimum qualification, passion is commonplace, and pissing off the wrong person on the wrong job (even if you were in the right) can potentially screw your entire career. It's a tough business, even before we talk about the money.

Agreed. My best guess is that it significantly lowers the amount of money invested in Hollywood and makes the profession a MUCH less lucrative profession.

I'd say it won't be even a 20th as severe as what's happened to entertainment made outside of the big 9 states. Trust me, I'm in one of the below 9 & it is horrifying how California has been trying to obliterate any of our local content. They've already destroyed at least 80% of local public access programs for Pete's sake!

investors go away, domino happens

💿

return to actual ownership

Return to Blu Ray too.

Yup. Pretty much most of what I've been saying, but even then, that only really applies to the more watered down uses of it like Midjourney. There is a lot of inspired work you can do with it. Whether that is to get a starting reference image (I like to do this for 3d modeling), or to bit by bit use AI as the brush through inpainting tools and hundreds of generations. AI writing is pretty mid, and I don't think that will be changing any time soon, however it's useful in bouncing ideas, spell checking, doing research, or even using it as a second pair of eyes. To me, I want to treat AI as a second brain, offloading all the BS I don't wanna mess with.

I like the line that the podcast trashfuture uses: if your job can be replaced by an AI, you are already an AI

I think the core issue here is that the vast majority of artists are doing things that are repeatable by AI to get paid. Very few are every going to make a living doing whatever unique thing they like. So the vast majority of artists are basically getting canned. Joe and Jane at your local streets frankly don’t care about your uniqueness. They’ll consume whatever.

True, I agree. But then that was inevitable. When i graduated form design school i found that most design jobs were largely just jobs where you mass produce repeatable social media content. But; due to this very thing, the bar for entry is low, you can be easily replaced and pay was sh1t. Even then, I saw it was a dying industry. Already my job consisted of mostly copy pasting pictures and free assets from the internet and simply rearranging them. I agree with your assessment but it was already an inevitability. Even without AI those types of jobs were being replaced. There was software coming out that would let any manager create basic content using design templates and in most jobs, they hired a bunch of freshers, got them to grind for a few years, then fired them and hired the next bunch. The type of art or design you're talking about was already kn it's way out and not highly valued. Of course, it depends on country and I'm not saying I have any idea how to fix it on a broad scale. I'm just talking about personal experience and what I plan to do moving ahead. For what its worth, i ended up leaving design and joining an animation studio as a concept artist. There was still a demand for uniqueness there. I guess the world is changing rapidly and we just have to adapt. Many generations before us, who lives during such times of upheaval, have done so. We are just unlucky enough to be living during this time. I'm still gonna continue making art and finding a way to monetize it. Others will do the same, or find something new. Unless government regulation stops AI from rampantly stealing our work (and it may just happen it seems), we have little choice. And you're wrong about one thing: whilebthe average consumer may not care, there ARE still people who value creativity and uniqueness. One needs only to find thema and work with them.

I'm using AI to generate voices when I have to create corporate presentations that need a narrator. Real Voice actors who do this kind of stuff are fast declining, since its boring and poorly paid. I also plan to use AI to help me create some 3D assets and code on some animated stuff I'm working. It basically helps fill the gaps in my own expertise. I remember I saw a comment by a very old graphic designer who said "I was a designer before computers. I was a designer in the time of computers, and I'll be a designer after AI takes over" Im gonna be making art forever, come what may. If society collapses I'll become a shaman cave painter. If society becomes hyper advanced I'll make prints for people's apartments. If society becomes religious I'll go make art on temple walls. If people want entertainment, I'll go make that lol. It is what it is. We go forth or we give up. I'm not in the habit of giving up, and neither should any other artist

They have the data, they just don't want to count fractional views. It would expose how little watch time things like rings of power got.

They don't want an accurate counting system for views because they need to cook the books to attract investors. The Truth would kill their unsustainable business.

maybe tweak it so upper level percentages (nearly 100%) end up counting as 100%, because most people don't stay through credits.

If they change it now, they will likely get sued to oblivion for lying 😂

Dude tore into Margaret Thatcher during the Q&A lmao.

that's what happens with bubbles.

Have you seen the quality of the content lately? No way is anything being hidden because the shows are too popular.

They make more money off investment from good numbers, then they lose money off of actors and writers seeing good numbers and getting raises. They have zero reason to deflate numbers.

@@metalmythology6282 They make money off investments from subscriber numbers. It doesn't matter if no one watches the shows as long as subscription numbers are high. It's like how gyms don't care if their members don't go to the gyms as long as they continue paying for the membership. If anything, they like it when members don't go since it saves them maintenance costs.

Well the question isn't "Is Netflix doing well", it's "is the content specifically by individual show doing well". That's the one that would really affect the writers.

That's a big if.

Mhmm, considering they fucking WON BABY, WOOOOOO!!!!!! WGA WON LET'S GO HOOH HOOH HOOH THIS ONE'S FER THE BOYS WAYYYYOOOHHHHH!!!!!!!!

The whole AI thing is being fought because Disney and the studios are being scummy about it. They’re not just using AI, they’re scanning background actors and voice actors without their permission and trying to use their likeness indefinitely and only pay them a once time payment of a day’s work. That’s just creepy and scummy.

Except people are already conditioned to not see advertising on stream and they Hate Ads on streaming already, so much so that people will pay extra to a streaming service just to get rid of them.

Is it really? The issue here is very likely not a technical one. Most certainly the services have the telemetry to know how long people watched, click through rates, etc. RU-vid has those even for non-partnered accounts. They just don't want to release those numbers and there's no obligation to do so.

No because they dont want to show their real Numbers. I mean look at 2018. Everybody and their mother had Netflix and if they liked Anime Crunchyroll. Online Piracy was at a historical Low. But now that there are a dozen streaming Platforms Piracy is strong again and is currently growing. Midroll adds would drive out even more people. The writers can not win this. They are in a lose - lose situation.

what, you really think putting ads in there is going to result in cheaper streaming for the consumer? hah, as if. it's gonna cost the same, but now with ads.

@@cnlbenmcThe irony about this is that the people who pay less on streaming services and are willing to watch those ads, are less likely to buy the stuff being advertised to them, as they have less money than the people who are willing to pay more to not see those ads. It’s better to advertise to a richer audience that actually has money to spend.

CA would lose a lot of money it gets from Hollywood events and tourism. In turn the states CA gives money to (mostly in the south) will also suffer. It wouldn't necessarily harm CA itself as it's agriculture more than makes up for the current loss of Hollywood related revenue. But you can bet the state of CA would give far less money to other states if Hollywood collapses completely.

Let Hollywood burn

​@@visceratrocar Good, about time too

​@@visceratrocarthey wouldn't even loose the tourism. You go visit Hollywood walk of fame for their movies before the 2000s, not what they make now.

@@tonnentonie2767 Even the 2000s-early 2010s have their nostalgia too.

I know not a single person who cares about it.

*¹ ⁹ ⁸ ⁴*

Knowing disney itself funds diferent partys campaigns...hard to happen

This isn’t about celebrities wanting more millions. It’s about thousands of nameless, faceless writers and actors being able to afford to eat.

@@JohnBrown-tw2qi then they are doing a terrible job of making that clear to the public.

@@InfectiousGroovePodcast It doesn’t help that the media conglomerates that they are striking against are also the ones that control mainstream news.

@@JohnBrown-tw2qi I get their argument...and I agree with them. But the power brokers will never lose. The faceless will get a few pennies, and the union bosses and studio execs will get everything else. Bank on it.

@@WarEagleTimeMachine they are literally fighting SPECIFICALLY for higher minimums. Also any contract proposed by the elected “Union Bosses” has to be ratified by a popular vote of their membership. What you’re describing literally never happens and is only used as a hypothetical talking-point in anti-union media.

The last strike didn't stop the slop, just ask Revenge of the Fallen.

Agreed 😎🤜🤛

They have all the data, it’s just that releasing it as it is would hurt them immensely and show that the streaming bubble has popped

Television went from scamming advertisers to scamming investors. The problem is that ad agencies weren't spending their own money, so they didn't care. Investors are the opposite.

Surprised to see you here, but I agree. They have the data to do this, they just don't want to admit how much watch time they actually got from their big shows. For example, if they said rings of power was watched by 25 million users, but the watchtime was the equivalent of 10,000 people watching it in full, it was obviously a massive failure. I'm exaggerating to make a point.

It's even more wild because RU-vid IS a streaming service and a studio, or at least, they were. Remember RU-vid Originals? That was a really good system because everything was transparent. Unfortunately, they greenlit too many projects and the money fell through.

That’s good to know