Howdy folks! It's finally here! The BUFFER episode! We've compiled all of your questions via IG, FB, and email and put them together in a Q&A format where I give in-depth responses to every contingency that was asked about. See table of contents in the description if you want to skip around to specific parts! Be sure to like, subscribe, and leave a comment! XOXO ~Rig Dr.
Great info, thank you! I have a 3" cable from my last pedal to my Quilter InterBlock45 amplifier. Is an output buffer gonna make an appreciable difference?
Gabriel Souza if you’re going XLR (balanced) out there is typically some sort of low impedance conversion occurring on the output. However having an output buffer can still be helpful for those times you do use an amplifier and won’t hurt anything in regard to the balanced out following it. There is also a Mesa Boogie output buffer that had an unbalanced and balanced output called the Clear Link, which is sort of a SGI type replacement tool. In any case, back to your question, pickup loading on the input and having a quality input buffer is still important so your guitar pickups react properly. You could try something like that Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the Suhr Buffer as a single input buffer for your guitar to hit first.
Jon Newquist Jon - no it will not, you would definitely want an input buffer though and having a dual buffer won’t hurt. If you wanted a high quality single input buffer see the Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the the Suhr Buffer.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yes, thank you. I noticed the Stowaway while researching on Reverb. I like that you and Mesa are local to me, so that's how I'm gonna go.
Did I miss a mention of wireless rigs? A wireless transmitter will add a buffer to the input of your chain that a lot of people aren't aware of. The buffers are usually very high quality overall, but they do present a uniform impedance to the guitar and have a low impedance out of the receiver. This is great much of the time, but . . . If you're used to having a hideous impedance mangler first in your signal chain like a Fuzz Face or a Range Master, a buffer in front of those WILL change the tone, sometimes drastically. Brian May of Queen always uses a Dallas Range Master equivalent as the very first thing in his signal chain. As primitive and untamed as the input of the Range Master is, it, in conjunction with his iconic Burns Trisonic pickups, is an essential part of his sound. When he first went wireless, the tone was very noticeably different and the wireless manufacturer swore that the signal out of the receiver was an EXACT replica of the guitar signal into the transmitter, which it was except for the input and output impedance. He got around it by including a miniaturized Range Master circuit on his wireless strap BEFORE the transmitter so that the guitar still sees the horribly deformed input impedance of a Range Master before anything else. Just remember: If you're wireless, you're buffered.
Kirk Smith This is addressed in several of the comments below regarding wireless packs and receivers, in the majority of the situations we’re dealing with, impedance sensitive pedals like a Fuzz Face, are not super common in most rigs. Understandably, when making videos we have to make some assumptions about the end-user, but I do mention fuzzes in the video itself and went to avoid using a buffer when dealing with transistor based effects.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK ... I just put the MESA High Wire Buffer on my pedal board (with 16 pedals on it) and all that goodness that was "once there" returned, and my fingers and my ears are smiling once again. I play a Strat through a Black Face 64' Vibroverb , use the highest quality connectors,cables,power supply connectors, pedals, etc. ,but I was no longer digging my amp sound with all those pedals. I knew I needed a buffer in & out but I didn't know what it did and where to find one a few years back when I built my board. Fast forward to a few weeks ago when I watched this video, and the rest is a VERY satisfied customer. I can't thank you enough for this information - my amp has been resurrected. cheers
Dude! Huge thanks! After a couple of your videos, I found some sources of noise in my board, made a few easy wiring changes, and cut the noise by like 85% without having to buy anything new! You're the man!
Just shouted you out in the gear talk page for this information,I tried the empress Effects input,output buffer on my board,and even though I use a guitar wireless system 100% of the time Live,it cleaned up my sound dramatically! You are the man! Thx! 🏆👍🏽
I am also torn between these 2. ( Mesa vs. Empress ) I have decided to "take the buffer plunge" - I love my strat straight-into my Fender amp, and I just can't achieve that Pristine Clean Tone with my 10 pedal pedalboard - using all Mogami cables???
BIG THANK YOU for this guy!!!!!!!! Finally someone with a straight forward, honest talk, dense information, no time wasting busslhitting, and blabla, (very hard to find these days on youtube)!!!!! He knows what he is talking, no "ahmm.. and oooo... and kinda..." but saying the facts. You should be cloned man! :)
Oakland native (I work at Urban Ore!) just got my first Vertex pedal and you have my immediate attention sir. I am extremely impressed and am now even more curious about some of your pedals I've been GAS'ing for years to try. These Rig Doctor's are great as well, kudos to actually putting quality, purposeful content on the Superweb.
I have one of those Peavey Vypyr Tube 60s from back in the day. I love how the volume pedal is attached to the footswitch and plugs via a special MIDI connector so I don't lose tone. Never needed a volume pedal because of it.
Skrydstrup R&D makes a great dual buffer/linedriver (BF2M). It's 400€, but the guy builds rigs for David Gilmour, The edge and many others. Great video definitely thinking of putting a Empress buffer under my small board as a buffer/interface.
I haven't use this one, seems like they're pretty limited production. The specs on it look pretty good, but I think you could do just as well with those I've recommended!
Thank you for the nitty gritty, Mason. This is the real deal and likely a definitive and conclusive reference for anyone looking for this info. Also, Analog Mike has discussed this issue and pointed out frequency stacking that occurs when running boss/similar buffers in series which results in harsh high-end that helped to inspire true-bypass design.
Thanks for watching! That was the goal - even some of the most respected names don't really understand the facts regarding buffers so it's often hard to debunk mythology when dogmas and allegiances are more powerful than the actuality. He and Wampler have some good information, but I think also leave out a lot of things, and Mike seems to prefer the TS-808 buffers, which aren't linear, but it's maybe because he likes the sound, and isn't going for transparency.
I wish I could have gotten these questions in before the video haha 1) how would an output buffer interact with something like a Radial SGI? 2a) does having a DI before your pedalboard during recording have the same negative effects as the parallel out of a volume pedal? 2b) would something like the Suhr Buffer with the ISO our be a good solution or is a parallel out always going to cause problems? 3) thoughts on the quality of the Suhr buffer? Love the videos, man. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.
Moonman Music 1) won’t hurt anything, especially when you don’t convert to balanced and need the low impedance output. 2a) depends on the DI, some are active some aren’t. If you’re DI ing off the input there can be some loss, but very little when using the thru before hitting pedals, like adding a few feet of cable, the Balanced out should be unaffected. 2b). If you need a splitter that’s a good one, the Boogie one is also good and you can use the tuner out as the split out however the Suhr one is transformer isolated which is a benefit if you’re going to different amps potentially. 3) it’s a good buffer but only a single buffer, if you wanted to use this, you’d need two, one of each side of the pedalboard.
The timing of this video was helpful as I am actually building patch cables today for my new pedalboard and figuring out my setup for buffers and noise reduction is the last step in this. Great stuff!
Snap! So am I. I'm rebuilding a DI board, using a bunch of Lava Cable SIS kits I never got around to using for my main, wet/dry amp board. Good luck! Clean, isolated power solved most of my noise issues, but imo it ain't Rock 'n Roll if there isn't a little 60 cycle hum in there somewhere ;) NB: what are you using for your patches?
Matt Gilbert Nice! I’m using Lava Cable Tightope Kits. Using a Boss ES-8 for a Two Amp rig with Boss DD500/MD500 and dual mono Reverbs running majority of effects - so its switchable Wet Dry/Stereo based on the MIDI patch with everything in preamp loops analog
Based on this episode, I did end up buying a Mesa Highwire this week. My experience: I’d been running buffered pedals at the beginning and end of my chain already. This new arrangement enabled one less pedal overall, plus enabled the tuner to be removed from the audio signal. Overall my tone was slightly brighter (easy to eq back to neutral), maaaaybe more “solid” somehow, and also slightly quieter in terms of noise floor. One of the key benefits has been that the volume pot on the guitar (335 historic 58) became less prone to tone change when backed off. Finally, the boost on the Mesa itself is good - very clean and utterly silent switching. Overall, this was a good suggestion. The Highwire is expensive but I’ve found it a good device.
I would bet that your tone is not actually brighter, I bet that what you’re hearing is what it sounds like when there isn’t any capacitance in the line. If you want to alter the tone I suggest trying different guitar cables on the input since those will be the most susceptible to a sonic changed since there before the buffer. If you want a little darker I recommend the Belden 9778.
Vertex Effects it’s a mish mash of Klotz, Canare, Lava and a D’Addario (upper/more premium one). I’m not unhappy with the brighter/less dark tone. It speaks well and then a small EQ tweak compensates. I’ll do an AB with direct in, but in the end the tone via the board is the one I use so is the one that counts.
Duncan Wylie I understand, as much as you can stay away from solderless I think you would be wise to do so. If you can streamline the cable on the board itself I also think it could be good. Mogami 2319 is super reasonable and super effective for this purpose and application. You can then mess around with different cables from your guitar into the input of the buffer is the first thing on the Pedalboard and see what you like the best.
The Mesa buffers are the best I have tested. I believe the Klon buffer uses an opamp while the Mesa stowaway uses a BC549. I think the Highwire uses a BC549 for the input and a 072 opamp on the output.
I use buffers inside my guitars. My main guitar has a Graphtech Ghost system which has an onboard buffer. My second guitar has a Creation Audio Labs in-line buffer circuit, and my third guitar has Fishman Fluence pickups, which has a buffer built in.
What do you do once you turn a pedal on or hit a buffered pedal and undoes your on-board buffer? I’d still say you’d need an output buffer to drive the linen back to your amp without any loss.
@@VertexEffectsInc My rig is mostly digital. I use an Atomic Amplifire as my main 'amp', so I don't have the need for one, since there are probably buffers built in to the Atomic anyway. And as for buffered pedals after my guitar, I've bypassed the buffer circuit on my Mission volume, and there's an EP booster on at all times, which stays on even when I set all my tones on the Atomic.
@@VertexEffectsInc Guitar - Radial Bigshot instrument selector - Mission Volume - Joe Gagan Wah - Emerson EM Drive - EP booster (always on) - Atomic Amplifire. Got a Timeline and H9 in the loop of the Atomic.
Great video. I’ve been playing guitar for a long time and am only just now learning about the importance of buffers. I’m going to check out the Mesa livewire. Thanks!
Mason, awesome video. thank you for answering all of those questions. I am using a TC Polytune 3 right at the input of my Pedal board and a TC Bonafide buffer right at the output going to the amp.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks Mason. I may need to use a splitter to split my guitar signal in front of the amp to the amp's input and to a noise gate (In the amp's loop) that requires a "key input" to monitor the guitar signal. Are there any splitters you recommend? also, is it ok to use a Buffer splitter for this purpose even after the Bonafide splitter at the end of my pedal board or is it preferred to use an Isolated splitter? Thanks
Thank you for this very helpful vid. I had my Bogner Lyndhurst compressor first in my chain (as per the instructions in the manual) and then my Fender Level Set Buffer. The Lyndhurst is set as an always on pedal and sounded good until I started stacking different gain pedals and would notice so much noise. I saw this video and decided to switch the order and viola! Much less noise when gain pedal stacking. Thanks again!
Thanks for watching! I'd still put the buffer first. It has a 1M input impedance which is more what your guitar will want to see if you're normally using a tube amplifier. Besides any buffering from either pedal is undone after it drives the first patch cable to the subsequent "on" or "buffered" pedal. What you're missing is an output buffer - at the end of your chain to drive the longest cables back to your amplifier. You could use something like what I recommended above (and get rid of your Fender Buffer), or a single output buffer like the Suhr Buffer or Mesa Boogie Stowaway - that will get you closest to neutral as if you plugged your guitar into your amp with nothing in between.
@@VertexEffectsInc I appreciate you taking the time to respond. One thing I found cool about the Fender buffer is that I can reintroduce (to my taste) some of that high end that is lost in my large pedalboard but yes, that Empress buffer looks awesome and is now on my wish list for next year (hopefully). Cheers!
@@eanroad if you're loosing high end, with all pedal being true bypass in between the buffer and the amp, then the buffer is not of good quality. I can tell you already that the Fender output impedance of 1K is way to high to drive even a 10 ft. cable without any EQ change or degradation.
(the short story) I bought a couple of products from Vertex (Boost and Ultra Phonix - Love them both). In the process I spoke to Mason a few times about his pedals. During the discussion, buffers came up. Mason recommended the Mesa High Wire to me. I did a bunch of research and wound up buying it (only for the buffer, not the boost). I have a Sebego Sound amp (a Dumble clone). I've been totally happy with the sound of it from the day I got it (6 years ago). Once I connected the High Wire to my pedal board and played through it, my mind was completely blown! Again, I thought I loved the sound I had before the buffer, but once I put it in the clarity out of my amp was astounding. It was great before, but it's incredible now. Watch the video, listen to what he says, but a GOOD buffer. Make it easy on yourself: just buy the High Wire and be done with it.
@@VertexEffectsInc I should have closed with "thank you so very much, Mason, for your pedals (again, I love them both), your sage advice which has made every note I pluck THAT much more pleasurable (really!), and also the TLC you gave me with the "extra help" you provided for me. Class act all the way!
I sandwich. MI Audio Boost 'n Buff early in the chain, input buffer in the ES-8 off (the MI is a great clean boost and high-quality buffer). ES-8 output buffer on. The germanium position-sensitive pedals, my Treble Booster and ge Fuzz, are in an Analogman 2-channel true bypass looper before anything gets to the MI > ES-8 so they don't interfere with each other or anything else. TRS out from the ES-8 to the Analogman. Handy device, that AM true bypass loper. It comes with a remote, but I just use one of the ES-8 TRS-outs. Various buffered and true bypass pedals in the loops of the ES-8.
Matt Gilbert MI is going to unload your guitar pickups, it has a 5M input impedance, so 5x higher than almost any amplifier out there from Fender, to Vox, to Marshall. When the MI Boost is on, output impedance is 10K ohms, not a great line driver, when it’s off, 100 ohms (which is good). However you pickups are going to react differently with that input impedance so I don’t know if you’re gonna get a neutral sound no matter what you do anything that pedal. The buffers in the ES-8 are borderline and could certainly improve that end of things.
What buffer would you recommend in this chain? Guitar -> buffer, with a tuner out preferably -> compressor, boost -> overdrive -> distortion -> fuzz -> modulation -> envelope -> iridium stereo out -> buffer stereo return and stereo out?
thanks a million !!!!!!! i care about my tone and want to get it right im a purest but maybe that now includes buffers if 90% of pros use them live its good enough for me and ultimatley live sound means the most
Hi Mason , new sub here. I saw you on a Sweetwater ‘All Board/Ampless Rig’ video. THX for getting at these less than simple microelectronics issues, I’m going to binge your channel. 👏🦡.
I use a Morley Pro Series II Distorion Wah Volume first and a Planet Waves Strobe Tuner last. Both buffered. I use a Bullet Cables coil cable too (clear tonality actually). Most of my pedals are controlled with my Vitoos VLP8 switcher and I don't find much tone loss or coloring.
pastorkev777 Is the Morley before you go into the switcher? Is the tuner after you go out of the switcher? I wouldn’t count on those being completely neutral or particularly good at being a buffer.
thanks vertex this is the pro content ive been interested in exploring. the whole pedal on thing throwing me for a loop would an always on pedal negate the need for a buffer
Josh Fowler yea, it’s a utility piece that many ignore. If people cared as much about buffers as they do overdrive we’d probably have better buffers available and more manufacturers making them.
I was looking at the Mesa high-wire dual buffer, so that would be the first and last pedal in my signal chain? Thanks for helping guitar players like me out. Keep up the great work!
Mark Dodds They are cool, but they are only an input buffer, you would still need an output buffer presumably, also it’s not particularly neutral, in fact tube in general is not very neutral or linear.
WoW! amazing video .... so well explained !!!! .... it teached me so much .... THANK YOUUUU ... so so much .... greetings from Portugal ... ps: could you do a video explaining how to choose the cables (guitart or patch) ... once again THANK YOUUUU for such amazing explanation ...
Great video Mason. I always thought that once the signal was converted to low impedance it would be redundant to do so again. Going to have to do some experimenting with this.
“Low impedance” is a range they most don’t categorize properly in terms of what’s actually stable at driving a line without any coloration, distortion, or EQ change. Typically 80-150 ohms is what I consider a stable range for and output buffer impedance. Many of these buffers out there are 1K ohms (ie 1000 ohms) and they’re being called “low impedance” - but are actually unstable at driving long lines. When you have multiple pedals, buffered or not, any pedal that’s “on” is buffering and is preventing any buffer before it to be effective beyond that point, as that “on” pedal is now the buffer until another pedal after it is turned on or buffered. Most people that only use input buffers are typically only buffering a patch cable or two until a pedal is “on” and overtakes the input buffer.
I use 6 effects - 4 are true bypass, and 2 are not; Boss DD3 and TR2. I tend to run the delay last but I don't have the tremolo first. I almost bought the J Rockett SOS because it was cheap and I have a Blue Note which is great and it's likely I'll add a few more pedals into the mix.
Great video and info But .. most pedal build videos I’ve seen you do , none have a buffer in front or at the end but I understand that you build what the client wants .
Vertex Effects That’s right . I completely overlooked that part . I actually inquired about having one of those built for me and You said that unfortunately you don’t sell them . But yes you are correct
@@LuisHernandez-dy1rq I don't sell them, but I make them for clients that are building rigs when needed. However, I would just as well use the Mesa Boogie High Wire, or Empress if they had them and didn't require any custom functions.
I hav the empress buffer + , and i think u reccomended it on another vid as well ,, so . Thanks , best i can tell it does a great job . Also got "ultra phonix" a week ago and diggin it. Thanks for the videos .
Thank you man so informative. Sometimes pictures are the best information , IE this works this doesn't, wish this existed. I may work on one for the those, like me, are not technically minded. I use a both a boss tuner on one board have another with the bona fide stand alone, and the TC bonafide tuner. But I dont have one at the start of the board. I need to check all my amps have buffers in the loops.
Frank Quinn you need a buffer first and last, ideally a high quality one - like I’ve mentioned - a buffer in your effects loop won’t help you with any pedals in front of your amp, only pedals wired into your loop.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yep I got that part ok. I have an another rig which I use the voodo lap midi switcher, with an old axess router/switcher, that combination is and always has been really like plugging straight into the amp.
@@VertexEffectsInc I know , I dealt with directly when he had axess, great guy and amazingly easily to deal with , my ears perked up at that. I am looking at the boogie ones now
Depends what want! They can be bright amps and some folks wanna tame them down by adding more capacitance - ie Hendrix and his coil cables. If you like the tone of the amps as is - I’d recommend the same as above!
Some pedals want to see a true coil despite the capacitance of the connecting lead, and it's a know problem that a buffer interferes, therefore buffers should follow those circuits that need true bypass.
John Cougar This is addressed in the video, and applications where a germanium transistor is used for example. However, using broad generalizations, this is typically not a frequent application, and the majority of rigs will benefit from the input buffer. Furthermore, if you do have an impedance sensitive device, like a Fuzz Face, some of them don’t like driving low output impedance following them, so it definitely is in need of testing but most certainly you will need an output buffer at the end of your chain to drive the long lines back to your amplifier without any loss, if your goal is in fact, to have the most neutral of a sound possible.
I've built some nice buffers for piezo equipped fiddles and guitars. And electric guitars as well. I use a JFET and a PNP transistor in a classic self biasing cascade circuit for a high input z (1 to10M) and a low output z (less than 10k). The fiddle would not cooperate with the wah wah. Well it does now. For electric, it drives a long cable nicely. It sounds great to my ears and the design came right off a Fairchild datasheet.
@@VertexEffectsInc , it can drive a decent made cable 20 or so feet. For the fiddle player, it did not drive a cable- it was put inside (before) the wah as an always on circuit. It matched the z between piezo and the wah pedal. The wah wants to see about a 10k pickup from a guitar but was seeing a high z device that wanted a 10M input z. Buffers are kinda specific, this one needed the output to look like a guitar pickup not a piezo.. 1M is pretty standard for electric guitar stuff but many pedals are made with a 500k. Sometimes 500k is ok in a pedal chain, but after a cable of 15 feet? Yup, high end loss.
Actually this is a subject I've never really thought about in over 30 years of playing & my method has always been too mix & match true bypass & buffered pedals & then EQ my rig to taste & somehow it's always works out!!! I have a better understanding now since watching this video,but I've always had the same policy of only putting the bare minimum on my pedalboard so only what I'm going to use for the situation I'm playing in!! I actually always have a couple of Boss Line Selectors on the go & when I need 2 delays I never run them together so I can a/b with this device & it works!!I know their are better products out there but it works & the late Gary Moore used too do this & their was nothing wrong with his tone!!! My method based more on trial & error & I've always thought that having all true bypass is not a great thing & the same as having all buffered,it's always been best too mix & match & this has always given me best results!!! In really bad situations when no matter what you do the single sounds rubbish,I always carry a spare,spare,spare guitar that has EMG pickups which obviously don't sound as nice as my usual Dimarzio setup but because the EMG's are active they fix problems when nothing else can in those once a year situations when nothing you do can make it work!!! All of what I've said is based on my many years of experience & everything I've said works!!!
The goals here are to explain the right way to do it and then you can deviate however you’d like. My goal is to tell people how to get the sound of guitar into amp even when running through a bunch of pedals.
@@VertexEffectsInc Honestly it's no dig at anybody. I just felt that I needed to add my experiences from my long gigging life in the real world where their are no road crew,technical specialists or any form of nice backstage area!! On the road like this it's all about running repairs & keeping things too pretty much the minimum you can get away with,& this has lead me to the kind of rig I've been using now for around 35 years which is either a old Marshall plexi 100watt or 50 watt head & 4X12" loaded with celestion greenback's (again old not reissue!!) Or in tighter situations old Vox AC30's with Celestion Heritage speakers (I have a few with Celestion Blueback's but these are what I call museum pieces!!) because they're the perfect compromise & the amplifiers work perfectly!!!! I also have to say that another amplifier which I love more than just about anything else is the Rivera R30.These are the best pedal platform amplifiers ever built because channel 1 is pure Vox & channel 2 is pure Fender & this in my opinion is the 2 ultimate clean(ish) pedal platforms you can get,& it's criminal how Paul Rivera discontinued this tonemonster around 25 years ago (please bring it back!!As you're in this business & top of the tree at that could you please put a word in too get this amplifier reintroduce!!!?) & let's just say I own a couple of Matchless DC30's which are pure boutique Vox & I have a couple of Mesa Boogie's which definitely have their feet in Fender waters,but no other amplifier mixes Vox & Fender in one product & Paul Rivera had it & it's as good as it gets!!! Mind though Rivera products are impossible to find now over here in Great Britain & when I got mine years ago they were rare at best & I'm the only person that I know of who actually owns any Rivera products (I have a few!!) & I definitely consider them too be the other Dumble!!
For once, I have a question that might have a happy ending. I have my guitar plugged into a Fuzz Face Mini, Dimebag Wah Wah, Whammy 5, Waza TU-3W Tuner w/buffer on and then JHS Black Buffer. Then 8 more pedals on isolated power (many buffered BOSS). Then the TC Bonafide Buffer into my Vypyr Tube 60. Good setup?
Hi. I’m using a gig rig grumpy bot input buffer for my lead tone amp with killer results!! If I wanted to add a separate output buffer I would try the Mesa clear link send/receive options!!
I'd just get the Dual Buffer, Mesa High Wire and replace what you have now, the incremental cost to upgrade isn't much more, and it will be a better line driver and isolate the pickups better that 99.9% of the commercial buffers out there.
Hi Mason, every time I try to put my stand-alone buffer (JHS) in front of everything, the first thing the guitar sees, it makes my signal seem sterile. Sound wise, and feel wise. Mostly I notice this going into my overdrive pedal. However, if I put it at around 2nd or 3rd in the chain it seems to work great and the overdrive pedal reacts to the pickups more naturally, or amp-like. Right now it's guitar --> overdrive --> TC 3rd Dimension chorus --> buffer --> Polytune mini --> then onto 6 more pedals. Ha! I know. A lot of pedals for a jazz guy...
I would suggest trying a higher quality dual buffer system like those I’ve recommended, a low quality buffer will change the tone as you’ve described. You can find the Empress Buffers used in Reverb very reasonably if you wanna try with low risk.
Vertex Effects Thanks Mason. If I was worried about tone loss I might do that. I’ve found that is a really good compromise. I only use an 8’ cable, then two pedals before the buffer and am happy how the pickups intact directly with the OD pedal.
Vertex Effects The first pedal I hit is my Dumkudo overdrive -> chorus -> tuner -> Strymon compressor -> POG 2 -> Strymon Lex -> EHX Freeze -> El Capistan -> Blue Sky -> 10’ cable -> amp.
Hey TIO two questions: 1) do I need a buffer? 2) where do I put it in my chain? BWAAAHAAA hey it’s just a joke man put the gun down....GREAT VID man lots of good stuff said couple diff ways 🤣!! KEEP ON ROCKIN IN A FREE WORLD!!
Zvex fuzz factory before buffer correct > highwire? Def going to go with the Mesa through sweetwater when I get some $ to make this happen. I was using 1/2 buffered pedals and 1/2 true bypass thinking 50/50 had me solid. Now I’m really interested to hear the high wire. Carl Martin makes good buffers in there pedals from what pros say. You have any specs on the rate of Carl Martin buffers. It’s really the only brand during the “true bypass” craze I heard people saying hey Carl Martin buffers will change your mind they are such high quality.
Luke Weiler I don’t remember what the composition of that Fuzz, typically when you use a pedal like a Fuzz Face, you would want the buffer come after the fuzz, but again that’s for impedance sensitive varieties - and I don’t know about that Fuzz Factory comparatively. If it is sensitive to low impedance, the solution would be to insert the input buffer following it, and then using the output buffer in the normal position, last in the chain. There should be a pretty easy comparison test to do to see if there’s any sonic difference with the buffer before or after the Fuzz Factory.
Hi Mason, quick question for you. Does the placement suggestion still apply if you are running direct? So for example, if I was running this setup: guitar->comp->drive->delay->verb->amp or speaker sim->full range pa, would the buffer go before or after the amp or speaker sim? I'm wondering how it would sound into a full range system or if this even matters? Thanks for all you do and keep up the great work, Rig Doctor!
After the wireless - technically the wireless output from the receiver is low Z, but it's better to go with a buffer you know will do the job well. The Shure one is pretty good, but definitely adds high end compared to the direct signal of guitar into amp alone.
I run the following: germanium fuzz face clone > germanium treble booster clone> Trex tuner with buffer> king of tone > boss dd3> tc electronic delay> digitech reverb > ocd> tube amp. Could you recommend a buffer? Thank you!
Sam Packer why the OCD at the end? What’s the amp? I’d say short to going to all true bypass between your tuner buffer and the output would be ideal, however something like the Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the Suhr buffer on the output would be a good output buffer to drive the line back to the amp. You could also use a high quality boost like our Vertex Boost to do it!
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for your reply! I occasionally like distortion after my time based effects for volume swells in solos or for ambient textures. This also makes for a good shoegaze sound. It creates a less predictable tone that I can still tame with my volume knob. I'm currently using the low wattage fender Bassbreaker 007. I use the dynamics in my right hand to clean up my playing, so I prefer low wattage amps. Do you think the buffer in the t-rex tuner is worth keeping? I'll look into your other helpful buffer suggestions. Thanks!
What about buffer placement when using pedals in your effects loop. Where should the output buffer go? After the last effect pedal in the effects loop and right before the return cable that goes back to the amp?
DTM 1864 we’ve talked about this in a few of the other comments below, however I will reiterate. The same idea holds true as it would with an amplifier without in effects loop. You still need an input buffer first, and in output buffer last. For an effects loop, most of them have a buffered send, so the only place a buffer would really make sense is on the return after the last pedal going back to the amplifier. Something like the Mesa Boogie Clear Link or Suhr Buffer would work there.
Hey mate. Thanx for the video.. Unfortunatelly there were there some not so technical cuestions that had to be answered too. TU-3W has a very sweet tone sweetener buffer... I wish I could put it b4 my MC 404wah and Fuzz face
I use a Polytune 3 at the start and I use 2 Boss pedals . Boss CE2 Chorus and Boss DM2W delay Unfortunately I have a Holy Grail Reverb at the end of the chain but I like the reverb
Luis Hernandez you’d be served by having an output buffer there! That’s the longest line your entire pedalboard drives in all likelihood - your input buffer is only valuable until you turn a pedal on after it, then it’s benefit is negated from that point forward.
Vertex Effects I see. I wish I could send you a pic of my board There is no room for anymore pedals and my Strymon Zuma is already used up and I’m actually sharing two outputs as it is
Benson just came out with a Benson Ge Booster which is High INPUT and OUTPUT Impedance which you can use with a fuzz face or wah pedals. The Benson Ge Booster is like a Buffer but has a High output impedance, check it out.
@@VertexEffectsInc I'm not sure if this company listed the specs but this buffer/booster is mint to put before a face face or wah pedal. If you look up fenders 50s wiring the tone pot is connected to the wiper of the volume pot so this is called output load compared to pickup loading which has been done since 60s until present which the tone pot is loading down the pickups. Pickup loaded vs guitar output loading are two different things. Jerry Garcia has send return ports on his guitar to put his guitar effect before the volume pot and tone pot which the effects are pickup loading.
@@VertexEffectsInc David Gilmour used the colorsound power booster pedal before his face face so it seems that the colorsound power booster is high output impedance to interface with the fuzzface. Trex Marc Bolan used colorsound one knob fuzz which I think is high output impedance not sure but it seems that the Benson ge booster fuzz is based around the colorsound one knob fuzz I think with some modifications.
@@VertexEffectsInc It doesn't say the specs on the benson website but I think sweetwater will show he specs soon when they sell it. Its suppose to have a buffer input and high impedance output. Temperature controlled self biasing circuit for the germanium transistor. This is a good buffer booster to be used before a fuzz face to get those David Gilmour 1969-1972 tones. It sounds like a 3 stage transistor fuzz with a fuzz face so you can get those J Mascus Dino Jr tones instead of using a colorsound fuzz.
Hey Dr. Uncle Master Mason, what are your thoughts on wireless units and buffers? I have two wireless units that they use which essentially claim that they can essentially eliminate the need for an input buffer because they emulate having an extremely short cable. I'm running through like 15 pedals and use a RJM PBC 6x, so I have a lot of high quality buffering options, but not really sure where to start with making those decisions (I also have a really weird signal routing haha). Thanks for the video brodie!
Colton - not necessarily, you still want your pickups to think they are seeing an amplifier and wireless units do this to some degree eliminating capacitance, but not all control for pickup loading on the input to make your guitar react as though it's seeing an amplifier. Even in the best case, having a quality dual buffer won't hurt anything your wireless is doing, and if you have to go cabled for some reason, you're not risking any impedance issues by plugging directly into the pedalboard. If you're hitting the PBC6X right after your wireless, then you should be OK, the only issue would be the output since the PBC6X I think only has a single routable buffer and presumably you have more pedals that loops and will need a high quality output buffer. You might look at something like the Suhr Buffer (just a single output buffer with an ISO'd out) to drive the long cable lines back to your amplifier.
@@VertexEffectsInc Ahh gotcha. My configuration is a bit weird because I have my last loop go through 7 of my pedals and my compressor is before the RJM, so I actually don't have anything outside of the loop. The output is weird though as well because I go through the insert of the PBC into the FX Loop of my HX Stomp (basically so I can send keys from my computer, through the stomp, to all of my wet pedals if I want). The last thing that is hit by my board before my amp (if I'm using my real amp) is the RJM Out to the HX Stomp FX Return, then out to the amp (from a TA Link box). I'm thinking it'd be best to just have the buffer on for the input and the output of the RJM?
@@VertexEffectsInc Hmmm. I'm confident that if you turn off the wireless receiver (ie input buffer of choice is no longer connected), the guitar pickups "see" no difference in resistance. But I agree that you need an input buffer ready for when (not if) your wireless batteries die, or the receiver gets pounded by interference. And having it doesn't hurt anything.
@@coltonwirgau7723 if you use one of the quality input/output buffers I mentioned you don't risk anything - is the TA an SGI type thing? From the looks of it they seem to have a pedalboard adapted version of it.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yeah it's the same type thing as an SGI. I have it mounted under some stuff on my board and soldered in an XLR Out on a patch bay that sends out to my amp.
My current signal path is guitar - TU-2 - Keeley 2 knob compressor - Wah - fuzz - Mf Drive - Red Dirt - Smartgate - amp & a couple delays, Phase 90 in the FX loop. Power supply is a Mondo. Noise gate is rarely used & I may take it off the board & throw it in the PA box for those gigs w/ dirty house power. Primary amp is a slightly modded DSL40. What can I do to improve the signal path as it is?
I’d check out the Empress buffer on Reverb - they’re around $80 used and this will do wonders for you system and you can perhaps use the tuner in the tuner out of the buffer so you don’t have to involve a low quality buffer in the Boss, plus you get the quality line driver in the output buffer of the Empress at the end of the chain. Or you could get a stand alone output buffer and keep your Boss on the input. Something like the Mesa Boogie Stowaway or the Suhr buffer could work nicely.
Great video! Thank you so much for taking the time to share your wisdom. I definitely learned a lot, but I'm still scratching my head on my situation... and not for lack of independent research - it led me here! I really hope you are able to provide some insight. I'm paraphrasing for the sake of the comments section, but will gladly provide more detail if needed. I have 2 amp rig with a direct pedal chain that ends with an aby amp switcher that has a built in buffer (Radial Twin-City). 1 amp is always on, 2nd amp is used like an overdrive pedal. Using a Friedman board and wanting the convenience of the Buffer Bay 6 for cable management - I have 2 questions. 1. How do you correctly patch an ABY pedal into a pedal board patchbay correctly (buffered or not)? 2. Is running a Radial Twin-City pedal directly into the Friedman Buffer Bay overkill? Hurt my tone? I hope to hear from you!! If not, thanks again for the great info in the video. You friggin rule!
My understanding of the Friedman buffer was that it was only a single, and I think on the input of the system. If that is true, then you want to have two output buffers one for side “a” and another for side “b”. As I recall, there were still pass-throughs on the interface made by Friedman that would allow you to do this.
Unless the Friedman has a stereo output buffer, I don’t think it does, then there won’t be any redundancy, however I’m very suspicious of the buffer in the Radial unit, typically when there is no public specification on the manufacture’s website, that’s not very good sign of the effectiveness of the line driver or its ability to be able to eliminate capacitance on the output.
I finally watched this after you suggested doing so in another q&a. I am looking for your recommendation of the public available buffer circuit designs that I could DIY on some strip board. I already diy'd a popular simple JFET buffer but as you pointed out in this video, it's one of the ones that's not neutral. This is going to be a pedalboard input buffer and installed inside a self modded true bypass tuner to be my buffer. I assume some kind of IC buffer but I'm not sure which one...
I’m not seeing anything about Swiss Things being designed by Empress. Btw, what a bummer to see that the Empress stereo buffer was discontinued. The Swiss Things doesn’t handle stereo effects :/
Don't do what I did and think too hard about this, if you like a pedal, use the pedal. My favourite delay is a boss DD3 and I was concerned that it wasn't true bypass but I like it so fuck it
gogajira2 I think that’s totally fair, I would just say that if your goal is to get the most neutral found you would want to have a higher quality buffer driving the line back to your amplifier than what the DD3 provides on its own.
Luke Weiler that’s cool, just don’t use them as you line drivers back to the amp or on the input of the rig - they don’t do that part well in terms of buffers.
gogajira2 That means nothing, the impedance on the output is the thing that is important, again the ability for pedals to be able to effectively buffer the line without introducing loss or degradation varies greatly from unit to unit.
Thanks a lot for the video! Very useful. Was wondering is a buffer in Peterson Strobostomp HD Tuner is a high quality buffer? Considering this tuner and would like it to be as a buffer at the beginning of my chain. Thanks in advance for the answer!
Excellent video! Very instuctional, straight on the topic. This video made me a subscriber :) A couple of quick questions: 1) I am using a small pedalboard with an acoustic guitar (Yamaha Silent nylon, to be precise). I am playing at home only, so no long cable runs to the front of house or anything of that sort. My first question is whether anyting you said about buffers correctly loading the guitar pickup applies to piezo pickups in acoustic instruments (whether passive or active piezo)? 2) The first thing my guitar signal hits is Xotic Super Sweet booster. This pedal has a switchable buffer (via a small dip switch inside the enclosure, so not the easiest set up to A/B listening on the fly LOL). Taking into consideration the answer to 1), would you recommend turning it on or off? Thanks in advance, and keep those excellent instructional videos coming!
Thanks for watching and for the sub! 1) typically if you have some sort of active preamp on your acoustic, most do - you won't need an input buffer since you already have some sort of active circuitry in the guitar. If it's all passive, you may consider one, and you can experiment with the input impedance to match what you like. An ordinary DI might be around 150-200K ohm range to give you an idea, where a typical tube amp might be around 1M (1,000,000 ohms). 2) I don't think it's going to hurt, but that also not a "neutral" buffer. The adjective to describe a buffer as "Sweet" or "Salty" or " Savory" or "Clean" they all translate to a color - buffers should have no essence - they should be 1:1. What comes in, comes out. You might want to check the specs on the that buffer as I think it's no in the 1M input and 100 ohm output range. As I recall the output is around 1K, or 10x worse than the recommended 100 ohms.
Do the majority of bass amps (solid state, class D) look for the same input impedance as tube guitar amps? or would a bassist be better off utilizing a buffer designed for an impedance that is closer to what bass amps look for? Killer Video!!
The Class D amps can be anything the engineer designed it to be from super low like 10K to 5M or more. The input impedance has nothing to do with it being Class D, analog, or whatever. It is more what it was designed for - if pro audio, the amp (any topology) will most likely be 10K. But since it is line level input, a guitar would not drive it directly, it would need a preamp and that is where the input impedance of the preamp matters whether it is for guitar or bass.
I use A line 6 m13 which I have all the settings programmed for just reverbs, delays, and 6 programs modulation. Now I the vox preamp totally clean. A reidman goden pearl for low gain drive not high at all.. ocd v2 some times maxed gain or set on 7an Ibanez mini tube screamer for slight juice for the drives set between 2 or 3 it doesn’t boost it stays the same volume as the drives an mxr 78 distortion. And I use a tc electronics clean boost. I also use a mxr 10 ban eg to twic the tone some times I get pretty radical scoop a little mids hear and a band eg for a mid boost. A BBE sonic stomp. I’m blues/ rock guitar it’s I put a little shared on things( 50 a product of 70s and 80s its a disease I inherited then😆) I leave vox All the time with eg set almost identical to my amp head.but don’t us now obviously I use the goden pear to do the stacking as far as the drive and the distortions I use for different reasons for vitamin songs.now with all that do what buffers do recommend some thing about mid priced. Now the line 6 is mad to go any were on the board but program The accordingly and put it were mods wood so would u even recommend a buffer is there any thing I just showed that can be used as buffer would an extra BBE sonic stop be al omg with the one I already have be choices
Don’t know I don’t this is the first I’ve incorporated doe much digital the Line six ( which in my opinion it’s the first time some modeling got right) with Analog
The 5150, the most popular metal amp ever created, has an input impedance of 470k on the high gain input, and 44k on the low gain input. How does the 1M input on the Mesa play with the inputs on the 5150, or does it not matter since the vast majority of modern userd use a boost in front of the 5150 anyways? BTW, I ordered a Mesa buffer but keep thinking about that impedance adjustment on the input of the Empress... On that note do these two buffers sound significantly different? I guess I could try both, but it seems the cost is prohibitive when there is a whole chain to worry about!
This is unusual for an amplifier, 99% of what's out there will be 1M, however, there are some buffers, the RJM Tone Saver for example, which has a 500K input impedance (which might be more of what this amp would sound like in terms of pickup loading when plugged directly into it). The 1M will sound more unloaded compared to plugging right into the amp. May not make much difference to you sonically, but it might sound a little more airy and brighter. The Boogie is better in a mono system for sure. However, an alternative might be to get something like the RJM that has 500K input Z, and then get a different buffer for the output like the Suhr Buffer, or if you're on a budget, the Bona Fide Buffer from TC electronic.
Hey Mason, I'm looking at buying the Mesa double buffer, and just have a quick question. I have a Union Tube & Transistor MORE as the last pedal on my board, on their site Union says "our suggestion however is to put it just before your tube amp or if you are running a series of pedals to put it last in the signal chain." Would you still run this pedal into the out buffer?
Richard Tyler Osborne I have not dried it yet - but I will talk to Dana their AR guy about it, but you’d still need two presumably because it’s only a single buffer and you’d want one at the start and finish of the pedalboard.
Vertex Effects Thanks for the speedy reply! I actually run a VS XO at the top of the chain and then their clean boost at the very end currently. I like the sound, but I’m curious how they stack up against others 🤓
I guess the best test is an A/B comparison to your guitar directly into an amp using an a/b box. That way you can see the impact presuming all pedals in between these buffers are all true bypass and in bypass mode.
What would you do if you had a complete pedalboard with input and output buffer but occasionally you’d like to add a true bypass reverb pedal? Before or after pedalboard? Or neither?
I’m moving away from a multi-effects pedal and I’m building a whole new board. These are the pedals I’m going to be running from first in the chain to last, should I consider getting buffers? These are going to run through an EVH 5153 50w Stealth Peterson Strobostomp HD Xotic wah BOSS SY-1 Ibanez TS-9 EVH Flanger MXR Phase 95 Strymon TimeLine Strymon BigSky
I hope someone will answer my question. I use a boss ms3 with 4cm, for what i undestand i need 4 buffer in total. One guit in, one amp out, one send one return maybe i can eliminate the return one but the ms3 has a -10db out so it's better to use a buffer.
Hi Mason! Thanks for the very informative and comprehensive buffered video, great job! Yet I have a question for you: I have Vertex BOOST on my board (last in a signal chain) is this the best place for it or maybe I should use it different way (first in a signal chain) ? I use Mogami 2524 10ft cable from guitar to pedalboard - then 11 all true bypass pedals (except for TC Poly3Tuner with buffer - first pedal) and last is BOOST - then 20ft Mogami 2524 cable to amp. Should I think about Mesa High-Wire ? But then where to place it - first ?Last ? Or put all pedalboard into it's loop ?
I think this is OK as is. The Vertex Boost has a great output buffers, same one I’d build custom for any buffers I’d make. The input buffer in the Bona Fide isn’t bad, you could upgrade to the single input buffer from Boogie, the Stowaway, but it may not be that different. Assuming you’re using all good soldered connections and good power, this rig should sound great!
@@VertexEffectsInc Thx Mason, I appreciate you always reply to questions. True, my rig sounds really decent, but you always want make sure you're getting the most of it;) That's why I asked you. I think I'll give MesaBoogie Stowaway a try as a input buffer as you suggested (High-Wire is too much?) Never ending pursuit of great tone.
You mentioned the Highwire buffer, but what about Mesa's Stowaway buffer? Also, will a pair of Stowaway buffers be good for the output buffers in a stereo rig?
John Kelley Brown Basically it’s just one side of the High Wire. If you want to go stereo, I’d recommend getting the high wire and then another output buffer that has an isolation transformer, something like the Suhr buffer.
Andrew Murguia that statement would be inaccurate. Quality of buffers on the market, build in or stand alone, is overwhelmingly low - very few actually reproduce the input signal identically on the output of the buffer. There is certainly an industrywide misunderstanding around what buffers actually do, some of it has to do with not understanding the physics or some of it has to do with not designing for pedalboard and rack systems specifically and not understanding the nuances of those contexts. Many designers, unfortunately design in a vacuum, and are looking at the practical side based on tens of thousands of hours building pedalboards.
Thanks, a good discussion. I'm using a origin Effects compressor as my first pedal. that talks of "conditioning" the signal (certainly no sound passes when there's no power), and then I have Cusack More Louder as my last pedal. That has a buffer on/off toggle. What I found interesting is your comment re a tuner o=in the tuner out of a EB volume pedal. I've never used that out having heard for ever it "sucks" etc. However recently I tried it with my TC tuner (i.e. audio signal goes through the volume pedal AND I have a tuner in the tuner out) and I detected no impact whether i plug it in/unplug it. Is this maybe because the OE compressor (or the buffer in it) is doing its job??
Duncan Wylie hard to say on how effective the compressor is as a line driver - they don’t publish the output impedance on their website nor input impedance. Seems like it’s true bypass, but maybe the relay needs power for the true bypass if it doesn’t pass signal. Ideally you’d want to have the buffer inside the volume pedal and split it out to the tuner out from there. If the tuner is true bypass it’ll do less impact than in the tuner out.
@@VertexEffectsInc A second thought on this... I've always heard/thought a buffered pedal will be muted with no power plugged in, and that this was a way to check. Hence my comment that the OE compressor was/might be buffered. But (1) you might be right that this is just because it has a soft switch type system/activation and (2) I have pedals like the Durham Sex Drive that says it's buffered but passes signal just fine with the power cable removed. So I'm very confused.
The end of my signal chain is a joyo cab box. It outputs at 470ohms. I use two outputs. One for my powered frfr cab, and one to send to FOH. Should I buffer either of those, or just hit it at the begining of the signal chain?
Liam O’ Callaghan There is certainly better buffers out there, typically I’m not using their output buffers since they’re pretty high output impedance ~1K. The input buffer is 1M and and with the switcher having a pedal on at all times it hasn’t been as problematic as a series pedalboard would be with the same buffer.
The output buffer plus the boost is good enough for me. I'm not too fussy, my rig sounds fine with a good input buffer (I don't use that on the ES-8) that does indeed colour my tone - ever so slightly. In a way that pleases my ear. Ain't broke, don't fix. None of that negates what Vertex has said here. It's just me.
@@VertexEffectsInc Have you noticed any variance with regards to output levels from 1&2 on the ES-8? I haven't - yet. I'm somewhat worried, as it seems to be a common issue. Roland won't hear about it, they deny the issue altogether.
Mason what if you are using a wireless at the front like an Xvive or NUX? You hear all the time that “wireless is active” so one doesn’t need a front end buffer? 1) is this true and 2) what are the specs is it typically 1 mega ohm as you suggest? Thx so much!
Thank you so much for so much information! I definitely needed (or need) a buffer; I added a JHS Little Black Buffer at the very end of the chain, and it brought (most of) my pedals back to life amazingly! The problem is that my Green Russian Big Muff (JHS Mod) and my ZVEX Fuzz Factory Probe sound awful. How would you solve this issue? By placing the buffer before, after (just the way I have it now), an ABY Box Pedal, a looper switcher? HOW?! This issue it's driving me crazy, and I can't find any information whatsoever for this specific case! hahaha
