The OverDrive guys discuss the Mike Babcock controversy with Mitch Marner and how the coach sewered the rookie with his teammates. The guys call the antics garbage and explain how Babcock crossed the line with his actions.
Good point, yzerman left being a part of Detroit while Babcock was there but came back now after he’s gone....sure it was a better position in Tampa but if he knew he was gonna take over in Detroit don’t u think he woulda waited....I dunno
@@derekfuller1543 What? Babcock in Detroit had nothing to do with Yzerman staying or leaving. Holland didn't want to give up the reins at the time, period.
steven moretto calm down bud just having a lil fun with conspiracy theories here, have you been to Detroit? I’d leave that city for a gig at Dunkin Donuts
Not true at all. Very much a bullshit statement!!!!! Steve did like him. They would Hag out a lot. You guys and your fucking lies. Don’t listen to everything you hear on here. Your talking about the crying tornado maple Leafs. We’re all the players are being over paid. The GM paid these guys lots of money and let the kids walk on him.
Being a Wings fan I specifically remember hearing through a good source that Lindstrom would only stick around if Babs left and he didn’t so Linds retired. This doesn’t surprise me.
@Full Circle there is no way you're a wings fan, you don't even know his name. It's Lidstrom. And he was 42 when he retired. That is well beyond the age a typical NHL star retires at. Lidstrom is way to mentally tough to let an old school hard nosed coach get to him. Marner is a bitch.
With all of Babcock's success it's easy to overlook the fact that he inherited a dynasty in Detroit and got to coach a stacked team Canada. That's like being given a ferrari and having to race against Ford Pinto's. I saw all I needed to see when he scratched Spezza on opening night against his old team...DBag move.
Yeah but the consensus is still that he’s a “good coach” but a piece of shit and a terrible person. He’s a dickhead but gets the most out of his players “until, they say fuck this you’re a dick and tune him out”
Good point, apparently Mike Tomlin hated all the b.s Antonio Brown pulled when he played for the steelers. Do you think he's going to say anything while he's on the team? No way.
@@chadjohnson608 Of course no player will bring this out when he's the coach. to suggest that a player would do it is total ridiculous. Babs is the coach of the Canadian team. You think anyone wants to be on his bad side.
really hate when someone starts with no one is perfect, blah blah, thats b.s. a lot of people go their entire lives and not treat people like garbage.....
@@tbc9652 I have never done so as an adult. I have never treated a coworker poorly, and I would never emotionally manipulate someone. Once you are an adult, you are responsible for your actions.
I am amazed when people say " why are people saying things now?" If you know how power works you would know how stupid this statement is. Reprisal happens all the time. People are afraid of the consequences to their career and livelihood. Sorry Jamie, your comments are naive.
Does he really deserve to be in the Hall? He rode a fantastic performance by Giggy to the cup final with Anaheim, then won 1 cup with the insanely stacked Red Wings, before never winning a playoff round in Toronto. Don’t even mention the gold medals, any coach in the NHL or even AHL could take that roster and win gold
@@stevenst6337 You do know Babcock was not the coach of the 2002 Wings right? The 2008 team while still pretty good with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom and Franzen ect...was far from one of the best all time. Hell they added Hossa after winning that cup and lost in the finals to the Pens in 2009. Scotty Bowman was the coach of the 2002 hall of fame team.
Yes he deserves to be in the HOF. Im not even a Leafs fan or a fan of any team hes coached, but hes one of the more successful coaches of all time and his hockey knowledge is beyond respected. Easy to say "anyone can win with that roster" till you notice how many times Canada didnt win with stacked rosters. And yes it was a disappoitment that TOR never won a playoff round, but part of that is due to the stupid new format. Who did Toronto really lose to? They lost to top 3 teams each of the past 3 years in very tough series'. People act like they were getting blown out by the Canes or Sens in the playoffs. They played the Bruins tougher than any other East team did, tahts damn sure
@@thevegangiant5589 100% true guy was one of the laziest players around his coaches and GM's said as much. Don't think its a coincidence O'Dog is the only player Jim Rutherford had gone to arb. with. " I did my research I called a few guys I know hate him!" people hate Scotty Bowman A LOT too is he some horrendous human being?
@@matth268 So what other coach had stories of abusive behavior toward players. I don't remember it happening. I don't remember hearing anything about Pat Quinn or Pat Burns or Ron Wilson or even Carlyle.
FLGiggles2 Babcock will not get another job unless he seriously smooths this over. The players carry too much power for this to go away. This is just the beginning of this.
It comes down to a human value scheme it seems ,being part of head games, but at the end of the day what do you really value? Something isn't right ,I have talked to hundreds of people over the years and body language and eye movement can also say much.There is a toxic feel by so many that have spoke up.
Babcock making Marner do this is bad, obviously. However, I'd be way more concerned if the entire organization knew about this (which they probably did) and didn't do anything about it
Alex Hutcheson There's no way Shanny didn't know about this. Lou or Dubas, maybe. I doubt it, but whatever. But there's no way in Hell that Shanahan didn't know this was going on.
He was the same guy when you hired him for record breaking amounts Toronto. The more right you are for firing him the more wrong you are for hiring him.
Commodore has been saying it forever and I think a lot of people probably just assumed it was sour grapes or something on his part but now it is all coming out.
I remember when he left Detroit Johan Franzen would rag on him constantly on Instagram. Johan being under contract still I am sure was told to ease up.
I'd like to see Modano sign with Minnesota or Dallas for a single game. Take the opening faceoff and skate off the ice...he deserves that 1500th career game.
The media needs to take a good long hard look at themselves, because they definitely enabled this erratic coaching behavior. Babcock was more or less deified in the Toronto media the past 3-4 years because of his contract and perceived pedigree. Why would any reasonable person risk their career/livelihood attacking a deified figure, especially one with a winning pedigree? They would get LAMBASTED by journalists, which would then trickle down to fans. Even most people when hearing Mike Commodore a while back before the Leafs started sucking were saying, “he’s just a disgruntled guy with an axe to grind”. We tend to overlook coaching tactics when their team is winning hockey games.
How is nobody else noticing how comical this is? “You know how many people hate Babcock? Hundreds!” “I did my research!” “I spoke to 5 player” 5 players! How can you be sooo confident about all of those claims after talking to 5 players! Lmao okay bud.
I keep seeing this retarded argument "Anyone could've won with those teams." You could use that argument to discredit literally every single coach that has ever won anything. Your goalie is like 20th in sv%, your defense is atrocious and you have no one who can play the pk. Sure blame the top 10 coach of all time, would make sense coming from Leafs fans lmfao
@@greasyslickwaterbuffalo3287 lmao, he has been gone for 2 games and there has already been massive improvement. I dont know how anyone could not think he was the problem.
soaringbullet lol. Their current style works great against average teams in the regular season. As soon as they come up against a heavy, high compete level, physical team in the playoffs, I think they get beat. I think it took Babcock 3 years to figure that out.
Finally, the real Babcock story is coming out. His use of spare players was absurd, how he regularly blew up his back up goalies was ridiculous, it goes on and on.
I've been listening to these guys over the last year, and can't even put a number of times they called out Babcock on some bad decision, bad line change, putting out the fourth line or wrong player in the wrong situation. Game seven against the bruins, was all on babock because his top two lines where on the bench from 5 minute stretches getting cold waiting fro the third and fourth line to get off. O'dog was right, why didn't MLSE (shanahan) not get rid of him in the summer and get the new coach implementing a system.
At 4:53 O-dog makes a comment about Babcock sitting Justin Holl for 70 plus games and didn't think he was a player.... Justin Holl looked like a quite serviceable player this year for the Leafs.
Another sad commentary. No one felt ok to speak up. Makes me have more respect for Dan Carrcillo outing the mistreatment of kids in youth hockey. Damn.
Jamie, I guess you want to be in the position to interview Babcock down the way, so say what you need to. Jeff was a great player and is retired and has nothing to lose, so I am in his corner on this and agree. Babcock = BAD GUY
I agree with Noodles, the people that knew this was going on should have had the balls to say something or call MB out on it. No one speaks up anymore, everyone is scared but as soon as the guy is gone, everyone becomes a tough guy. I can now understand why the young guys held out/demanded so much money to play for Babcock, he was hard to deal with and be around.
My kid playing lacrosse in high school. He would empty the benches at the end of the game, except my kid. It was so hard to watch. To my son's credit, he would not let me talk to that disgrace of a coach. In one game, the other team has huge defensive players. All the kids are getting crushed. So he puts my kid in. His stands in front, get hammered, but scores....in first 30 seconds. 1 minute later, same play and he gets crushed, but scores. The kid has to be helped off the field and the coach says, "wow, 2 lucky goals...but you let them hit you too hard." I was about 25 feet away and I started moving to the coach. Another dad stopped me and said, "I heard that too. I will,report it tomorrow and he is gone next year." He took a kid that literally played or talked about playing 24/7, and he beat the love of the game out of him. I asked around to see if maybe my kid had popped off in practice or something. The trainer told me that no, my kid was the most polite on the team. It turned out that at half-time, especially when losing, the coach would say, "ok kid, you say u love lacrosse, what do you think we should do?" And then my son would break down the first half and say what changes should be made. I learned that my son, but not the coached, watched film of games to learn. The coach would the poo-poo my son's ideas.....talk about something else for 5'minutes ....and then say what to do for 2nd half, which was essentially what my kid just said. You see, a man would have encouraged him to consider coaching. Perhaps tried to pass his know,edge to my son. But, this peace of garbage had so little self confidence, that he had to steal the kid's ideas...and then make fun of him....to make himself look better. He was a 30 year old coach. My kid was 15. All I can say is that if I ever get the chance, he and I are going to have a go. I just watched this scum break my kid's love of the game. 2 goals in 2 minutes. That was his whole season. Even the team's stars were offering to sit so my son could play more. Nope. I dont understand how anybody does that. I have coached. I tell kids early on that they will be riding the bench most likely. But, everybody gets in during garbage time. Who holds one player back? I only really hate a few people....and that POS IS one.
Met him at a bar downtown calgary when he was with detroit. Tries to introduce myself and tell him im a big fan of his work and he told me to fuck off and leave him alone.
Here we are 3 years later and the Leafs still haven’t won a round. What comes to mind for me is this; Brendan Shanahan surely knew/knows Babcock, intimately as a hockey guy because he played for Babcock. What was the thought process bringing in Babcock and this ‘style’ of coach knowing full well that this team would be young and inexperienced at the NHL level. I’m left thinking that there are some details about how decisions of this type are made. What critical things are we not privy to regarding the ‘relationship’ between players and management. Certainly Shanahan was a hard nosed and terrific player. Perhaps there is a negative situation or atmosphere in and around the Leafs. Certainly they were allowed some leeway around the dress code and we’re always shown how much fun the players have in their downtime at Scotiabank arena. Just to sum up, Brendan Shanahan has been at the helm for something like 8 years with NO POSITIVE RESULTS IN THE PLAYOFFS. This MUST BE THE YEAR FOR SOMETHING MORE IN THE PLAYOFFS or changes MUST BE MADE. The Leafs, on paper, should have been able to progress farther in previous seasons, however have come up short EVERY YEAR…
I knew the Leafs were tanking on purpose during that six game losing streak. The fact that they started winning IMMEDIATELY after Babcocks firing just proves it. Now we know why.
Hockey guys don’t run their mouths in general. Commie is one of the few that spoke. It’s kind of ‘Me Too’-esque in a way and finally everyone is coming forward to tell their stories!!
This has been going on forever.. I had a junior coach who dressed me, as a 20 year old and a point a game player, to sit on the bench the whole game.. Just to get his "superstar" motivated
@@joer8854 thats just one i have 2 more.. I was also made to rot as a 19 year old twice by 2 different coaches.. I honestly thought it was me.. 1. I had 10pts in 7 games.. Invite to SPHL. Coach said if I go I don't have a spot if i am cut.. Ok i stay then im not playing..2. Not getting much ice but playing 3rd line. Someone yells at our coach he assumes its my father and im on the bench not seeing any ice.. Literally sat on the bench 60mins a game.
@@Hyperi0nn let me guess.. You are one of the guys that tormented and hazed Rookies. That's fine.. The 3 coaches I mentioned ALL in junior A.. ALL currently being contacted by hockey canada... But hey keep it up 👍
If Babcock is the biggest a-hole in the league....Paul Maclean can be his VP. Those Detroit locker rooms from 06-10 got the wake up of a lifetime going from Scotty to babs. By the way Jamie completely nailed it with the Darryl Sutter comparison
Marner never said anything because as bad as things might have been, he wanted to be a leaf and if he were to come out and speak at the time then he probably feared the inner workings of what might have happened on any given day where he wakes up and finds himself traded. Leaf fans stick by Marner... he won't disappoint you in the end.
I've heard Dubas wanted to fire Babs in the offseason but Shanny decided to give him one last go. It seems odd they fired him on a road trip. However, I bet that the players only meeting the team had was them agreeing to send a message to Shanny saying , either through a message delivered by Johnny T or their play, that they needed Babs gone. They basically gave up at puck drop in Vegas and Pitty after that. Shanny has no choice now, tells Dubas he can fire him, and the second he's able to Kyle tells Babs to hit the bricks. That's gotta be the way this played out.
MAF made a miracle save late in the 3rd and stopped it from going to OT. I often wonder, if MAF doesn't make that save and the Leafs win in OT does Babs still get fired. And if that was the start of a win streak?
No. Look at his record and tell me which other coaches have accomplished as much as Mike Babcock? That's a short list. Yes, I know Detroit had good teams and players, but all Stanley Cup winning coaches have good players. You can't win with stiffs.
James Anthony doesn’t mean that organizations won’t avoid him. No team wants a cancer in the locker room that immediately makes your contracts get more expensive because he’s a POS.
@@ianwamsley2595 Teams may avoid him for a number of reasons: his age; his contract demands; lack of recent playoff success; etc. Would THEY view him as a cancer? I don't know. If I were to hire him, I'd want to ask him about exactly what happened in Toronto, his take, and not what has been reported, spread by the media and fans, etc.
No one wanted to bring it up because they know it's club in the NHL. They circulate coaches and GMs no matter how terrible they do the job or the type of person. These guys all protect each other and players know that. Many players in the past had careers cancelled not because they couldn't play in the league but because they pissed off the wrong owner, manager or coach.
The guy on the right..stop saying why it did not come out earlier..just because players were scared to talk about his abuse all these years , does not mean it was ok and we should not blame Bab now.
Mike Commodore is so damn honest with things he said about Babs it is impossible for it to be true. And its very insightful the kind of person Babs is.
@@macdaddy351000 That's about it, hero to zero in no time. Now all the players and media jump on the blame game. Wonder what the excuse will be when they go on another skid
The part about his biases and judgements to players was spot on as a coach you need to see the light from your players...not the darkness, it seemed Babcock was far too negative...id say his permanent expression matches
Babcock is in a position with no power at the moment , cant bench a rookie who steps up to speak out for example , coaches like him can destroy careers , or more correct have destroyed careers.
As a Red Wing fan since birth, I never realized Babcock's was slowly poisoning our team, not until well after he left. Now our organization is sporting a hefty black eye.
I was saying this for years when he coached Detroit: Dan Cleary was a superstar in his eyes, a scrub on any other team. Jiri Hudler fled to Russia to get away from Babcock.
I like the former hockey players take on this, the guy on the right. I like how he's concerned about people taking years later about bad stuff the human being do. The guy in the middle has a hateful vendetta
You start to look at the evidence and you can really see who the person really is. And the reason why they don't call him out earlier was because he was a coach and the players just wanted to play hockey.
Ilikebeaversandeaglesupyourass Its a metaphor. Obviously I have no idea what it was like in WW1 nor does Babcock or anybody living today. Thanks for clarifying that.
Leivo* and yes man I liked him and he had a tremendous upside if you played him with the right guys but Babs hated him I don't know why if leivo was on the team he would be a solid 3rd line Powerforward to play with Spezza and Kerfoot! But nope and Calle Rosen was another casualty never enough ice time even though he wasnt the worse luckily we saved Justin Holl from the Same fate almost but I could tell the type of person Babs was as soon as he got his second season unwilling to change and adapt to the new style we are trying to get to and this Marner story just exposed him as the person he is! And just as an Added note the amount of decent players we lost in the babcock years are nuts Daniel Winnik Soshnikov Bernier Rosen Kadri(Win/Win) Matt Martin ( Wasn't the worst but the contract sucked but we wish we had that grit now) Connor Carrick Leivo Zaitsev who now I believed wanted out of Toronto because of Babs like the faq was Babs playing at over these few seasons jesus
glad this is coming out...nice to hear the truth...and no coach deserved this kind of crazy contract...8 years, 50 million..terrible, dreadful contract...not smart at all...keefe will be fine...time to move on, move forward...go get those cups guys...eye on the prize...go leafs go
that d man on Detroit made him famous, the best d man I ever have seen not named bobby orr, there is a reason this comes out, it does not fall out of the sky.
A lot of coaches could have coached the Wings to a cup and won the golds with Canada. If you're going to look at both sides however losing 3 playoff rounds to the Bruins was arguably like losing in the Stanley Cup finals.
Wallace McDonut that’s not saying the Bruins made it to the final but rather that they were likely as good as either of the teams in the cup finals those years
Glenn Gayet ...still nonsense. "Anyone could have coached the Wings and the Canadian golds?" You don't have to like Babcock as a person, but you can't argue his achievements with such bs. He is who he is. How quickly the Toronto media forget that the Leafs were bottom of the NHL not long ago. They became a playoff 100 point team under Babcock. Everything was going in the right direction. Then in comes Dubass and digs a trench around Babcock to watch him fall and bring in his own guy. Even Lou Lam didn't want anything to do with Dubass. He was meant to stay at the Leafs org after his gixed term as GM in an advisory role but Dubass cancelled it. Dubass has fucked up almost every contract deal he tried to make with the Leafs and then oveerpaid all the new kids, and then last summer released(fired) all Babcock's support staff and brought in Keefe's guys. Babcock was isolated and pushed out by Dubass and is now the scapegoat for Dubass fuckups because now all the kids got their money their incentive to work has disappeared. Dubass is a snake and he has done this to every organization he has been in. Ste St Marie, Marlies, Leafs. He talks a good plan and then undermines the incumbant. Time will tell if Keefe has the right stuff. This is the NHL though. Not the OHL or AHL. We'll see what happens. Honeymoon period right now. Lets see how long that lasts. Lets see if he gets the work ethic requird when they are up against the wall v Boston.
06:05....The coach O-Dog is talking about has to be Paul Maurice. He coached Jeff on three separate occasions, if I remember correctly. It could be Peter Laviolette, but Maurice coached O-Dog for at least 75% of his career.
@@abr1304 Yep, if I recall correctly, he said that he reported being molested by his junior coach, but was told he was making things up and no one believed him, until others came forward much later in Jerome's NHL career about the same thing from the same coach.
Scotty Bowman was a hard ass, nobody hated him. That Mike Modano story is crazy. Modano came home to play for a rival. What a d-bag move. Lost lots of respect for him on that one.
I wonder just how much Babcock ‘contributed’ to the success of the teams he has been with. When Babcock won, his teams were loaded up with talented players. Look at the Wings etc. What does an NHL coach ‘bring’ to a team environment? It seems that Babcock needed to ensure that he had a psychological EDGE over his players in order to motivate them. Even more of a tribute to those players who won in SPITE of Babcocks bullying tactics. If there are great players who can’t cope with this type of mental ABUSE, ultimately they will likely underperform. Was Babcock the ONLY coach who could have won in 2010? I think that’s unlikely in the extreme.
Shanahan played for babcock, he knew what a jerk he was. But then,Shanahan is crappy person too. On the blues team he stole his linemate and friends wife. It came to a head in florida where the team had an inter team brawl because of this, and it's the reason keenan traded shanahan
There were tons of stories of how babcock was a hard ass long before coming to toronto. He’s always been known as coach like keenan and torts, A rough coach that doesn’t last long. These are just the details for why that is now
Sure the players hated him, but I’ve heard of another coach players hated and it worked out very well for him...Some no name called Scotty Bowman. One player said you hated Scotty 364 days a year but on the 365th you pick up your Cup ring.
