Obeying Authority | Unethical Psychology 

Dexis 20? Ametuer! I can pull 50

x _ my record is 80 if that’s what we’re comparing, I was just sitting on 20 at the time

The pride and superiority you feel from having an unhealthier lifestyle than others is a short term gratification that will lead to long term detriments.

Lmao I just stared at my screen like why would I flinch? I completely glossed over the first beep so that confused me until I went back

Dexis bullshit

I wanna hunt beasts. How do I contact you?

That is the point. If you read anything Zimbardo has written you know that he isn’t vile or evil. His research has a lot to say about “evil” and us/versus them thinking.

@@ErebuBat You're not wrong. Phil Zimbardo isn't evil. He just completely lacks any form of self awareness and refuses to look back on the Stanford events critically. He has done other research that is high quality and very well done, but until he's honest about what happened at Stanford, specifically the effect his personal loss of detachment had on influencing outcomes being the most important finding salvageable from that garbage fire, it'll always be a huge black mark on his reputation.

Dr Zimbardo's gf stopped him from continuing his experiment - she saw it, and him, was "out of control."

Hmmm.... And I was there thinking it sounds more like a very strange BDSM play party... Entering the co-worker of Zimbardo who had experience as 'master sadist'.... Yeah. Adds up. Still way to less latex to peek my interest.

That's a fun thought...

...as you get up when your alarm sounds at 7AM? lol

@@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan He conditioned them. I mean it's manipulative but that's all it is. But if it's any consolation he probably ended up conditioning himself as well just by association. Every time he hears a bell he ends up thinking about feeding dogs.

@@Allin7days Or even when my phone is off

This is beautiful

Yeah that sounds like fun

basically the sex raft

@@skyeye61 I just found out about the sex raft idek how but it’s my favorite social experiment I’ve ever learned about

@@elihenley6982 if they have weed it will be a lovely experience

Best comment on this video so far

Sounds like quite the ethical violation. I hope it wasn't supported by an amendment to the American Constitution

@@Crick1952 I'm pretty sure he's talking about a 15 year prison sentence lol. There's subtle hints of sarcasm in the last few sentences, hence why I commented what I did after reading over it a couple of times

@@MasterOfKnowledge. I know, I'm referencing the fact that the 13th amendment *literally* allows slavery as long as it's imposed by the government aka a prison sentence

@@Crick1952 Ahh, yeah. I get what you're saying now. Can't believe your comment went over my head lol

Psych 101 teaches you the unethical part was letting the prisoners go through that crap (and dont get me wrong I didn't know it was this bad from this video, with the gaslighting) but the real injustice was this hackjob of a professor peddling his nonsense to cause harm in society. Basically amounts to result fabrication and academic dishonesty! And the fact that he isn't punished and disowned by the Psych academia shows how much of a joke the Psych academia is, and a huge failure on Stanford's part

I know which one I'd rather be in.

From a modern perspective, in my education the Miligram experiments were used as an example of excellent praxis for experiments that could be very stressful or potentially traumatic to the subjects. Specifically cited were his allowing the subject to meet the cohort afterward to demonstrate they were okay, as well as allowing the subject as much time as they needed to talk to both the cohort and the proctor to process what just happened. The other were his periodic (I don't know if KB missed this or it got cut, but Milgram followed up with his subjects multiple times) followups with subjects to gauge their long term mental health. As a side note- here we can see a major divergence between Milgram and Zimbardo, Milgram did not directly participate in his experiments for the most part, he had proctors who worked for him do it specifically so he wouldn't influence the results. One interesting statistic from the Milligram experiments is that 84% of participants were glad they participated and only 1% regretted their involvement in a retrospective survey he took. The takeaway from that when I was in college was "potentially traumatic experiments aren't necessarily unethical, but if you're going to do them you need to take long run responsibility for what you've done." Which is an important lesson for experimental psychologists.

Remember how he said there were "18 variations" of this experiment? In one, the test subject was a puppy being given fake electrical shocks. When people criticized this by claiming that the puppy wasn't really being hurt (even though the participants didn't know that), the participants shocked a real puppy -- to death. And by "a puppy" I mean "a puppy for each participant who took it that far". _That_ variation was unethical, but how else could the hypothesis be proven that people would go that far even after seeing and confirming the results of their actions?

@@Starcrash6984 This is partially incorrect. It was a live puppy, and they shocked it, but the shocks were harmless. They didn't kill any dogs. Additionally, this was Sheridan and King, not Milgram.

and now, we know better

Can you pardon me for kneecapping my grandpa?

Why are you everywhere? And why are you verified?

Krischna Gabriel click on his channel you’ll find out

Joe H.S click on his channel and you’ll find out

Oh, hey Jesus 👋

This is me sometimes. And then you say the word so much that you start thinking "Is this a real word? Is that how it's really said? Is that how it's really spelled?" Or is that just me?

Every other day, Normal people

BoURgEoIsiE BuOrGeOi 😁Thank you

And then we are told over and over again that everyday, normal people are all good and hardworking and are the foundation of our society.

Amazing what normal people do in extraordinary circumstances!

Coda Mission lol same

I didn’t even know I was supposed to flinch because of the beeps. Maybe I’m just too darn deaf

Deity status obtained

All my ears did, was ring slightly. Lol

Well I didn’t flinch too we could be Deities man

just the ferrets :/

Hey Muta

Hello guys and gals

So is he “Knowing Daddy” or “Daddy Better”

@@swolejeezy2603 How about "Father Better" or, the better alternative, "Knowing Father"

Nice

You haven't been watching this channel very long, have you? Knowing Better always releases on Sunday.

@@stevehall383 And now they know better.

Youbare knowing better

Cue ferret footage...

Dr.Zimbabwe: you know im sth of a scientist myself

Dr. Zimbardo in the evenings in front of his mirror: *Maniacal Laugh* Mwahahahah *maniacal laugh*

I once made an ant and another ant fight. So you could say I'm something of a scientist myself.

@@laxjoh have you gotten your Nobel yet?

Utopian mouse experiment ;)

That's a Spiderman villain name my dudes.

"Is the beep part of the experiment?"

Prismarine Stars I’m not hearing beeps and I’m halfway through

@@tinyshamrocks2172 They were only in the first few seconds.

You’ve been conditioned

They are there at the end of the video

yeah, it was one of the studies on which they showed us flawed methodology in my psych courses as well.

Twenty-five years ago, our psych professors framed it to us more as "This is why we have Review Boards that will examine your methodology before you're allowed run an experiment, and this is why you will *always* obey the Review Board." Whether or not it had flawed methodology, the Stanford experiment resulted in causing harm to the subjects and we were taught that that was unconditionally unacceptable. I don't remember them teaching any kind of critique of how the methodology specifically encouraged the outcome; it was almost more a cautionary tale of how _experimenters_ -- the actual people running the study -- could fall victim to the same kind of trap as the subjects of Milgram's experiments.

Vsauce did a good mind field about the experiment and modified it

Lmao me too

Same

Me too

@@matthewaltemose1819 Same thing with me. Only both were not white. They were blueish gray.

Me 2

@@matthewaltemose1819 omg yes

I wouldn't have hesitated if it were my lil bro

@@mandalortemaan7510 😲😲😲 You monster!

gordon thomas sounds like my previous landlord

Yes, it's the person who drafts all the forms you have to fill out at the DMV.

I wanna be master sadist...

Nah, the positions are dictated by the master sadist, though.

Yes at your local bdsm dungeon

Same!! I'm sick of how apparently the Department of Justice and DoD just makes up some BS about not being able to prosecute more war criminals by engaging in bad legal arguments and no one calls it out. Am I the only one who thinks POWs are POWs not terrorists or detainees and that the USA not torturing people is the definition the bare minimum?

@@joeblow9657 I think certain "war crimes" are justified and should be conditional

@@michaelf.2449 I agree but there's a difference between something done in the heat of the moment in the field and the government treating what are either essentially POWs or prisoners awaiting trial like garbage and torture them. I'm not saying they're great people but if service members deserve humane treatment when captured, our enemies do to. Then gain I'm also ok with mercy killings when done honestly or torturing people who are committing serious crimes as retribution in the field (within reason) but still.

@@joeblow9657 I agree I was made to see a soldier in Afghanistan being charged for killing a combatant because his troops had already passed him so he wasn't a danger or something like that, but he shot and killed the man and it was justified the dude was just trying to end his buddies lives and now they expect the soldiee to treat him like a regular citizens who's injuries once the guy wasn't a threat anymore.

@@michaelf.2449 Yeah Afghanistan was a weird war. IMO that wasn't even the worst crap. The tolerance of pedophiles and even supporting local police chiefs and elders who were very into it because "they're on the same side" but a guy who was trying to kill you and can't be evacuated you're not allowed to kill. Like, it's a country of people who can't read and are mostly morons. You should treat the villagers who'll betray you in a second like dirt imo. Not worth fighting imo. Remember guys, making woman wear burkhas and marrying off child brides is ok but letting soldiers into your house isn't because they're not brown like you

Yeah, the nazi's were inspired quite a bit by how the US treated the Native Americans.

not to mention the fascism school event that happened called the third wave (the movie the wave 1981 and the wave (die welle 2008) edited for more info.

I understand reoffending was rare in Germany, but I don't claim that liberalism works in every country.

@@calebr7199 ANd how do you figure that

@@calebr7199 When Apartheid was instituted in South Africa they took cues from the slavery model of the American South as well as Jim Crow laws. Not sure why people here were so quick to try to assume they had the ethical high ground.

beeeep

Also as a question, there was a precendent set in I beleive Vietnam where a squadron of soldiers raised a village to the ground on the command of their commander officer. The soldiers in the squadron were not tried, only the commanding officer was. I don't know if you know that story, but would be interested to know your perspective on that considering if these experiments impacted that outcome.

Famously one of the few people who refused to flip was a Dutch immigrant who had lived during the Nazi-occupation.

No one would. Unless something happened to them that replicates it.

I would imagine that just the fact that you know about this experiment would make you more likely to not flick the last switch. Kind of like how knowledge of the bystander effect is a great inoculation against the bystander effect.

If I had no knowledge of the experiment, I'd probably be part of the majority. I feel comfortable following orders.

Nah, I have no doubt i would've pressed it a soon as I was told. Although I've come to terms with being a terrible person lol.

I never knew just how messed up they set up those poor students. It was even worse than I thought. Horrific!

@@dawnoheee9524 they set up the Experiment as a survival horror game.

I think the experiment did at least prove that the german soldiers of ww2 were not uniquely evil simply because they were germans

That's a relief to hear

milgram*

It is described in The System of Doctor Tarr and Professor Fether.

In all likelihood about the same nicety what happens, when guards and prisoners aren't alone with each other, but there are visitors or external officials present

George Chakhidze Nice Poe reference! That story doesn’t get the attention it deserves

@@Colddirector that sounds like a very gay porno

I don't know if he's a psychopath. I think it's possible he might have been caught up in conducting his the research at the time, and have done highly questionable things in order to prove his hypothesis, and thus, his own bias. In retrospect, there seems to be a political agenda behind this, after all. And after the "experiment", he could either choose to milk it for all it was worth, or admit that he royally screwed up. He chose the former, clearly, and may or may not never have realised the lie of it. Just my two cents of speculation.

He would, mostly because psychopaths aren’t real. At least not in the way most people think.

Shit

"Bleeding Heart sadist" OMEGALUL

I'm not sure if he's a psychopath, but he's definitely a criminal.

Same lol. Especially when I had a teacher tell me I should inherently respect them due to the authority of the position, and I said “I’ve respected all my previous teachers because they treated me with respect, you haven’t” and they said “I don’t have to, I’m a teacher!” I had detention for a few weeks :)

Trust your guts

@@robertracicot7232 ?

Your teacher or Zimbardo?

@@Samm815 both

Consider yourself lucky. My Psych 101 prof in college loved BF Skinner and Herman Maslow. After he did units on those two, neither man's theories appealed to me and I wasn't alone in that class in thinking so.

Never heard people whose families murdered had PTSD. I do constantly hear the murderers kept having PTSD.

Conner Toennis I’m as surprised as anyone!

I bet! It's great to see collaborations like this. Even if they're small, it makes this platform more connected

Conner Toennis I’ve been a KB fan for a long time so this is quite cool! Plus, I think this is honestly one of his best videos.

@@JJMcCullough I agree, it's definitely one of my favorites!

I was right about JJ.

Another thing that was discovered was that people would not follow a direct order. There were four scripted prods to get the Teachers to continue, but only the fourth and final one was a direct order, *"You have no other choice".* What they discovered though, was that, whenever they finally used the fourth prod... total disobedience. Not one Teacher would continue if they were given the direct order to do so. And yet, if you ask anyone today what the Milgram study shows, they will tell you that it shows that people follow orders, when in fact it shows the exact opposite. What the Milgram study actually proved was, if you can lead people into believing that what they're doing is worthwhile, you can get them to do anything. A lot of things that are worthwhile are very hard... breaking new ground into new studies or new ways of thinking is often fraught with danger, and comes with high risk. The people involved in such efforts must come to believe that what they're doing is right, and that it's for the greater good. And that's exactly how the Nazis approached the problem. Heinrich Himmler gave a speech to the SS just before they began carrying out The Final Solution, wherein he told them, (paraphrased) "of course you don't want to kill these people, nobody would want to do such a thing and it's going to be very hard for you... but, you must understand that, what you're about to do is necessary and for the greater good of Germany if we are to advance our noble cause." And there is the dark danger that the Milgram study proved. If you want to commit atrocities against an entire race of people, you won't get anywhere by ordering people to simply do it. What you have to do instead is convince them that, while you recognize that this is horrible (of course this is horrible), it's still for the greater good... more good will come from doing this than the pain it will initially cause, and it will advance a very noble ideal that will lead us to a brighter, more peaceful future (there is redemption waiting just on the other side).

@alan wake how did we go from an experiment trying to deal with the banality of evil and why Eichmann was on TV talking about how he was just following orders to being an actual nazi who happens to have the name of a video game protagonist

alan wake you just became a real life example! Thanks, dude.

@@thebonesaw..4634 Yet billions of people humor direct rules or claims from a you-know-what, such as "I am the way, the truth, and the life".

Vsauce did it and had awesome results

No. They ended their run back in 2016. And the end was cemented with the death of Grant Imahara a few years back.

His videos on psychology are great I'll agree, it's what brought me into this channel His videos on political and social justice issues leave alot to be desired though.

There was a beep?

12 | I didn’t hear it because I didn’t have my volume up and I wasn’t paying much attention

I promise some sounds arent worth hearing

Wasn’t there a vault that utilized that same experiment?

I didnt prob a sign to catch some sleep

That sort of experiment would give COMPLETELY different data that the researchers hadn’t anticipated.

That's what we call, "selection bias."

And now we have the internet for that. Who'd thought the same technology would advance to that end?

Guest narrators have been a staple of the channel for a while, the selection of guest narrators has included numerous educational, liberal and leftist channels, all worth checking out.

@@Quintinohthree are you suggesting JJ is a liberal? Lol

@@Quintinohthree JJ had said multiple times that he is a Conservative. He also had Jreg in a cutaway and Jreg said that JJ is a Conservative.

Mike Daniels I think that he means that many channels that are considered to be in at least one of those categories do this. I think one can argue that JJ is an educational channel

@@Tdwt18 Yes.

Yup, also thought of Delgado! Master when I saw him

Delgado as the Master is all I can think about when I look at the guy. They really should have hired him to play the Master in the new series (would've been an improvement over "Missy", God that was dumb).

@@gatekeeper99924 Zimbardo explains the Stanford Prison Experiment and uses historical events under the premise that group dynamics/an individual's environment determine if they will do bad things. I was thinking about reading it but after watching this video I'm also having second thoughts

Yeah I also discovered him recently , man the know betterverse is amazing

Vsauce mind field

because people LOVE talking about how horrid humanity is and Zimbrdo provided "evidence" that we really are all capable of horrific actions and would gleefully do so if given the opportunity

Because most people aren't trained to see flaws in scientific studies and Zimbardo wasn't going to cop to how much shit he pulled when presenting his findings. His "findings" were shocking and the news, which often has to simplify science into easily digestible segments for the average person, ran with it.

Happy birthday! 🎉🎁🎈🎂

Hbd!

Did you get more LEGO?

Happy Birthdaaaayyy!! ❤❤❤

don't care

@@michaelmendez59 oh my gawd you completely rekt him your great divines is to much for me to bear

@@lookadookatheblackswan3727 amen. He's a master

His name isn't Zach.

And then everyone clapped