Man... I come from Crete. A whole world away. However, I watch a few Aussie 4x4 channels which are all good or decent. I must say that your area is probably the best in 4x4 experience which makes your input all that valuable and helpfull. All the guys I watch are good and aid the community and the adventurer. What I must stress in my experience in all areas (which is quite substancial) and being an engineer, is that you are the best in the field. Easy to understand through good and simple relay of knowledge, experience and expertise, easy going, pleasant, polite and analytical. I feel lucky to be able to watch your videos, I have a cracking time and to say the least, I am much obliged 🙂 I don't t know how else to relay my congratulations to you but I hope I managed. Cheers !
Agreed! Truly well put and explained I'm sure, what most people watching feel. Thank You @GEORGE THEGREEK for your honesty and like you said, actually commenting on the video. @Ronny Dahl loved the livestream that fin about an hour ago. I'm on east coast, I've never been to WA, and have wanted to all my life... Don't know now if I'll ever get there! So please know how much we appreciate your videos and All the Effort you put in. Peace to anyone that reads this. Love your brothers and sisters y'all! Especially now, with all the oddness in the air. Smile! andria, nsw
I'm now 8 weeks in Iceland with my Defender running on BF Goodrich M/T KM3 255/85R16. I arrived with full highway pressure of 36 psi and started to discover Iceland on gravel roads, lava sand, mud and rocks. As I often had to use central diff lock and L gear I was able to manage all kind of tracks. BUT when I tried to cross a snow field I had no chance. Listening to the locals they recommended to reduce the air pressure down to 15 psi. What a game changer. I was able to cross the snow field and simply continued with the low air pressure through the highlands. As the speed is low anyway the tires don't heat up and manage all previous mentioned road conditions much more comfortable. Just the roll tendency increased but so far nothing critical. I can completely underline what you explained, except I have no trailer. Greetings from 🇮🇸, Bernd
When I explain airing down to new folks (or their kids). 1. The lower pressure makes the ride more comfortable. 2. You get a greater foot print over rocks and such 3. Think of a balloon. Is it easier to pop a really full balloon or a deflated balloon?
What confuses me is when i see things like this: skinny tyres no deflation - Mud crawler comp: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bfz6FY9TMw0.html Rock crawler comp: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DaQOGLbLrbs.html (also if I was really to play the devil's advocate, talking about skinny tyres on sand yet shows a picture of a tractor on dirt!) I'm confused if there is that much difference between sand and dirt/mud, and using the example of the comp trucks, tractor, and tank, it would seem tall skinny tyres are best regardless of ground conditions or tyre pressure.
At the risk of sounding like even more of a noob to you, very interesting 1st place tractor pulling tyre and tyre pressure tips: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Qji3uqGmyQQ.html She seems to be an expert and know exactly what she is talking about!
@@PeterKnagge mate - you obviously know better than generations of desert drivers. You should visit the world's deserts and educate everyone how they're doing it wrong.
Peter Knagge I’ve no experience in dirt but I still struggle to see how skinnies in sand are better. I realise pressure effects the length of your footprint. No arguments. But a wider tyre with the same length footprint as a narrow one has greater constant area. The greater the contact area the lower the bearing pressure on the sand. That goes further to reducing the amount it sinks and therefore the resulting “step” In front of the tyre as it drives. Really, is love to see a big set of fats vs real skinnies in a direct side by side on same car, aired down to same pressures up a dune, slowly. 2 gear low. 2500 rpm. See which get further to eliminate driving style and power. Both HAVE to be the same diameter though. Hmmmmm anyone???? 😬
One thing I would like to add which I’ve noticed with some of the new MT’s is that well here in the US anyway is that a few are going for looks over usefulness. They’ll have aggressive side treads on one side and not so much on the other. It gives you a choice for looks but only one sidewall is going to give the extra bite you need versus a proper MT with bite on both sides. Something to check out whenever buying a new set.
Another thing about bouncing on rocks is if you bounce and your tires leave the ground then they have zero traction and stop trying to push you forward then they land and the downward force gives them lots of traction combined with wheel speed. SNAP! there goes an axle or u-joint.
Myth number eight,Tractor tyres are narrow, not for most field work they even fit twins on front and back for some work,narrow tyres are used for crop row work so you dont crush too much crop wide flotation tyrews for cultivation so that you don't compact the soil too much.
If we're basing our opinions on empirical data, how come every dune-buggy and sand-rail ever built has skinny tyres on the front and honking great wide tyres on the back? In Britain, a lot of the countryside has soft, peaty, ground and it's pretty common for game-keepers and estate workers to drive Land Rovers with extra-wide wheels to aid with flotation and to avoid tearing up the land as they drive. I think the whole "you don't need wide tyres for sand" thing is more that they're not critical but they ARE beneficial.
@Battle Fiercely Wide tyres are essential for flotation and traction on soft ground look at any earth moving equipment for that matter look at tank tracks most modern ones are fairly wide in order to get the lowest possible ground pressure, they used to use narrower one in the past but that was more to due with slewing forces when making turns it was a compromise, The T34 had wider tracks than most of the german tanks so that they did not sink in the soft mud. Google pictures of tractors, most have wide tyres the only use for narrow tyres on tractors is row crop work.
True for flat soft soil but in the steep hills gravel and sand tractors are almost universally fitted with narrow tyres the wide flotation tyres simply can't get enough purchase to drag a seeder uphill I'm not a full time cropping farmer but even I know this and have 2 sets of tyres wide for the soft delicate and boggy soil and narrow for powering up steep hills and through the hard stuff
(From another West Australian). With respect to skinny vs wide off-road. When airing down, the aim is to get a longer footprint, not a wider one. Apart from increasing the size of the contact patch, and therefore reducing the pressure per square inch on the ground, there’s a key reason for wanting length over width. And that is longitudinal traction. Ronny’s tyre aired down on a rock demonstrates this perfectly. Especially climbing up rocks, this ability to mold to the edge of a rock equals grip and traction. There’s a lot of tyre in contact with the rock. Highway pressure in any tyre, skinny or wide prevents this from happening. I personally prefer skinny, but Ronny’s logic is sound and backed by a lot of experience. And like Ronny, tyres with decent side wall tread blocks help in every situation too.
One big plus for skinnier tires is snow. Wide tires slide in snow much more than slim tires. My tires are currently 285mm and I am looking to reduce down to 255mm.
The choise there also depends on the depth of snow. Shall you drive through the snow or on top of the snow. Little snow - you want skinnys. They sink through and should grip the layers under the snow. If it's deep snow so your vehicle get stuck cause it's getting hold up by the undercarriage you should get tires for "over snow capacity", which means fat tires. Just look at many of the vehicles on Iceland.
A good explanation, but not perfect. Flotation on sand is a matter of PSI. The lower your PSI (pounds per square inch) the greater the flotation it's simple math. Contact area times psi equals vehicle weight.
What I think u need to do is a Tyre size comparison. Get 2 of the same brand and Tyre type with one being skinner than the other but both having the same circumferences. Like u should compare a 255/85/16 Tyre to a 285/75/16 Tyre- both are basically 33inch tyres with the only difference being the width. This would be an interesting comparison in all types of conditions
After looking online for Tyre Sizes - a better comparison would be a 225/95/16 vs 285/75/16. This would be a good comparison between a skinny vs wide tyre as they both have the same rolling circumferences.
On my Nissan hardbody double cab in the 15 years plus that I have owned it have used the factory fitted Bridgestone Duellers back in the day and I hated them on the road in the rain. A lot of slip from the back end I have no tried the new ones thou. I changed those for a set of Pirelli Scorpions absolutely loved them border Tyre and sexy white writing finishes looked and drove amazing no slipping on the wet and brilliant off road grip. Did pick up a few more puncture thou over time. Then I changed to Firestone Destination. Was pissed off when I only noticed they were a thinner Tyre I guess mentally I was always used to having broader tyres on my double cab. But then I was truly impressed on road and off road never had as many punctures on the road and off the road as well. In fact I remember clearly testing the life out of them on the road in pouring rain on a trip through the hills and very windy roads with lots of water patches and It performed brilliantly. It did give me an issue once on wet grassy muddy conditions but when I lowered the Tyre pressure it did well. Currently I have now put on BF Goodrich and so far so good but the major difference I feel with these BF Goodrich compared to all others mentioned is the road noise. It is very loud but if you love driving and the off road on road experience that's not an issue. It is a bakkie after all not a luxury car. All tyres were ALL TERRAIN tyres. These are my experiences so far. Thanks for the channel Ronny #newfan 🕺
I've been driving 4x4s, off road for 40 plus years. As far as skinny v wide tyres, I've had both and driven all kinds of conditions, in most popular brands of car. The difference between them, depending on the vehicle, in most cases, is so small that it's not worrying about. The correct tyre depends on two things, the vehicle you own and what you want to achieve. One thing to keep in mind is that an under powered vehicle will usually perform better on a skinny tire. Tyre pressure is the be all and end all for all situations. The correct tyre pressure for all conditions is... Totally dependent on on the environment, the vehicle and can change from day to day, depending on the weather. There only draw back with mud tyres that I have found is that they can be noisy on the bitumen...
I would add that skinny tired cars tend to be older and more often than not, much lighter. Plus usually they tended to have a larger diameter than optional fatties stock vs stock, so there are a few variables there.
Ummmmmm. That make zero sense. If "an under powered vehicle will usually perform better on a skinny tire", then common sense and a kindergarten education would stretch that to any vehicle will perform better on a skinny tire.
I'd like to add saving on fuel on skinnys vs Fatty's lol Rolling resistance. You cut through most terrains instead of pushing through. You don't slide on rocks climbing up. And if you need to float air down. Skinnys all the way
I carry loads and cargos on my Hilux and I find that wider tires with the PROPER pressure makes a whole lot of difference when I am fighting uphill on a rutted and wet track.
completely agree with you on the wider tyre myth but tractors with narrow tyres are probably from a row crop farm. look at any air seeder tractor, huge floaties, dual tyre etc.
Myth n°4 - Back in the days ( a few decades ago), before 4x4 where so commonly spread, if was well know in Northern Africa that the best cars to go into a sandy desert were the 4L by Renault. Thin tires ! Works also amazingly well with snow.
The myth about low tyre pressure is an interesting one as most people stuff there tyres by running on pavement at sub 20 psi for extended periods or over inflating them for fuel economy a false economy option from the 70's, just go with what your tyre dealer recommends for general driving and adjust for off road.
The fact is that if you air down when driving a unimog, you should be airing down every other car. Even when your driving a truck with portals and 40’s the difference in traction when you air down is phenomenal
I've lost a tire due to heat duning in the sand at 10psig with internal beadlocks. melted a hole right into the sidewall, then some more by the time I got out of the sand. I even melted a dirt bike tube running really low pressures in the dunes, but rim locks kept it together.
@@spedon2wheels267 Why would you air down just to air back up? Driving off road with too little air can quickly destroy a tire due to heat. Doesn't have to be on road. It also doesn't have to lead to an immediate failure. The heat cycles can cause long term issues with the tire.
tractor tyres are skinny to prevent crop damage in sown paddocks (look at SP spray rigs for this) and to prevent compaction of the soil. it has nothing to do with increasing traction in sand. in fact our sowing machines in Australia run very wide tyres, commonly seeing duel 900mm tyres each corner
I run a wide tire and mostly tackle rocks and snow. We get over one meter of snow here and obviously that's not drivable, but when its about 50cm and it starts to get very challenging the wide tires make all the difference. If you look at all the winter forest machines and trucks the tires are gigantic and wider than my shed and the tracks are the width of the entire machine. Floating in deep snow is the only way to not get stuck. Thanks again for another great video 📹 👍
When it comes to floating in snow wider isn't much better. Most of the float and the traction comes from higher tires, but there's a sweet spot ratio still. (Like 42x15" is pretty good, but 44x18.5" (DC) is slightly better, even though both tires have about the same height.) when it comes to floating the width of the rim also matters. I ran 44"x18.5" DC on 18.5" wheels for years and it worked very well (especially in side slopes), but fuel consumption on my 42" tires was way better and still had similar results in traction. I'm now going for 46x19" on 20" wide rims and I'm curious how it will perform. A friend of mine did a test with 35"x18" (Where on earth he found those tires, I have no idea), but it absolutely sucked in snow. Even regular 35x12.5" tires worked better...
On the process of modifying my 4runner. After watching this going with yokohama g003, which I have been eyeing for a while. I'm in the USA desert southwest.
Just air down for flotation don't need super wide fuel sucking tires just tall skinny AT or MT. Hard tire no matter how wide aired up high the skinny would float better and better fuel consumption so 🤷🏻
As far as tyre width goes, have a look at every bushfire brigade light tanker and trucks, they all have skinny tyres and their lives literally depend on being able to get in and out of all types of terrain.
Viewers from the US always think one thing: WHY DON'T WE GET THAT VERSION OF THE LAND CRUISER HERE???? Thanks, Ronny, for good advice! Now I'll go sulk about the lack of good international 4wd vehicles here in the US...
I've had it explained to me that skinnies are better for following reasons: mud- skinnies cut thru to firmer base and get traction, rock/dirt- narrow tyre means vehicle downforce concentrated on smaller area which equals greater traction on that concentrated area.
Skinny tyres creates a smaller bow wave than wider tyres. Wider tyres need more torque to push the sand out of the wheel rut. Skinny tyres can dig through the mud to the hard surface under mud. Wider tyres will aqua plan on top of slippery mud. The difference between skinny tyres and wide tyres is significant, I've experienced this on the soft beach in my old 2.8 Hilux with skinnies and a mates 4.2 Cruiser with wide tyres. The Cruiser was struggling and worried about getting bogged and the Hilux wasn't having any trouble and accelerated a lot faster.
Great video but one minor argument, but not an argument against your myths. You use tractor tires as an example of why wider isn't better in sand. I'd argue that tractor tires are not narrow because a taller tire has more traction but has another more practical purposes. The tires are the width they are so they can stay in the row between the crops when planted. This actually 100% the reason they are narrow. They are set this way for 2 main reasons, the first is that they don't want to cause added compaction over the planting bed but the more important is that they need to be able to stay in the gaps between the planted rows so as to not damage the planted crops.
Different tire pressures always give better performance and comfort. There are no universal tires, but with different pressures different characteristics are obtained. This is for every type and size of tire.
I don’t really disagree with anything you’re saying. However the tractor tires in the US are as wide as they can be and still fit in between crop lines. And sand specific tires (paddle tires) are super wide. I know those do not go on your average 4x4. I’m just saying it depends on your vehicle and the terrain you are going through. Which I know that’s exactly what you were saying. And finding the best all rounder for what you might run into is what you should choose.
Hi Ronny, just like to point out that myth #4 at 9:35 is wrong and full of anecdotal evidence that contradicts itself. It is mathematically impossible for narrow tyres of the same height as a standard mud tyre to be better at driving on sand than a wide tyre. If you follow the formula P = F/A P is for total pressure exerted on the ground F is your mass in Newton's A is your area in m² you'll understand that as your increase your area on the ground, you'll decrease the amount of pressure you exert over the same type of sand. The evidence you gave against large tyres doesn't make any sense. An M1 Abraham's tank exerts roughly 105 kPa of Pressure on the ground at any point. Compare that to your typical mountain bike, that exerts roughly 2.5x as much pressure on the ground. Tractors using skinny wheels are done for a purpose of limiting produce crushed, and knowing you're on hard ground. Tractors who regularly traverse soft ground will use wider wheels: see big bud 747. Rolling resistance goes down as pressure exerted goes down. There is a reason why people use snow shoes, sure it increases the amount of energy used to move your feet, but it uses less energy than burying yourself into knee deep snow. Let's put it into real terms that are understandable. Picture a 1m² plate of iron that's 2mm thick on its edges. Take this plate of iron and drop it into sand, which side do you think will stick into the ground easier? The edge, because it exerts more pressure over less area whilst the weight hasn't changed. In my follow up comment I'll give you 2 maths examples for you to see it in real world terms with your own LandCruiser. There will be assumptions made here for your weight, but I will keep it a constant 3,500kg Top equation will be your muds, bottom will be Toyota factory split rims.
Well I can't find any information on contact patch size of muds vs skinnys. So I just going to assume that the muds are twice as wide. W = m.g 3,500 X 9.81 = 34,335 Newton's. Mud area (assumed) .5m² Skinny area (assumed) .25m² So if we plug this into the formula: P = F/A you get 34,335/.5 = 68,670N/m² or 68.6kPa 34,335/.25 = 137,340N/m² or 137kPa This shows that having skinnier tyres does increase pressure exerted on sand thus more rolling resistance, less traction, less flotation.
Yeah, you're wrong. Narrower tyre has a longer footprint than wider. You make the incorrect assumption that the length of the contact patch is the same.
@@japorah incorrect. Same vehicle weight with same tyre pressures result in the same size contact patch and ground pressure. The wider tyre has higher rolling resistance due to the cross section at the leading edge of the patch. Simple mathematics.
@@k2svpete Simple maths tells me that area = L x W Now we already know that the length is a constant as we can use a 35 inch tyre diameter as the constant. So knowing that the width is a variable we can work out that the area of contact patch goes up as the width of tyre goes up. The cross section becomes irrelevant as we have already worked out that the tyre contact patch gives the vehicle better flotation across sand when you have a wider tyre. The only situation where cross section becomes a hindrance and affects your vehicle is when your engine can't output enough torque at an efficient level for your tyre size.
Good job on the tyres mate. I also would’ve explained aggressive side walls protect your tyres when at low pressures whilst driving over rocky terrain. Love your work🇦🇺🤠👍🍺
On snow: If you're driving on snow that is not deep, a narrow tire will do fine. If you are driving on snow that is deep, like 1 meter+, get the biggest and widest tire you can get on the smallest possible rim. 37"+ on 15" rims.
Tanks that handled fine in the deserts down in Africa needed wider grousers to handle the mud that bookends the winter in Russia and the more temperate climates in France.
(Tank/tractor analogy for tire width myth ) Russian ww2 tanks performed better than other nations on soft terrain because they had wider tracks. Farm tractors have narrow tires to miinimize crop damage. That being said, up here in icy Canada, we opt for narrower tires in deep snow (pizza cutter effect and less pushing of loose material) so I do think you are right
Mate your videos are nice and clear no bs says as it is in practical.. I love it.. keep posting good stuff which helps people like me to learn and understand.. lot of videos out there go too depth in these things and get confused over what’s needs to do end of the clip.. keep it up🤙
The discovery is a very good 4X4 but you can't fit smaller rims so not really suitable for hard off road driving. Land Rover has basically gone upmarket now anyway and are not really building vehicles for off road life anymore.
Due to having such large brakes the disco 4 3.0l can only fit specific 18 inch wheels at the smallest but with a set of 285 60 18s you can let them down to 15 psi on the sand no probs! One better is the disco 4 2.7 which can still fit 17s as the brakes are the same as a disco 3. 285 65 17 will fit but the spare has to be let down to fit in the hole. I agree it's a shame the new Land rovers are all plastic and the defender is now dead.but keeps us Toyota fans happy to see the Land rover owners admitting defeat and crossing over to the correct side🤣
Ók, I'm an EX TANK Driver of over 13 years experience as the man sitting in the hole at the front who has to get that tank from "A" to "B" regardless of the terrain. I can tell you its all about 2 things. 1 key factor is mechanical, the 2 key factor is how good the Driver is. So lets stick to the mechanical since that factor is all about the "tire" on the tank that gets you from "A" to "B". Tank tracks are designed with 1 guiding principle for terrain interaction and that is "LOW GROUND PRESSURE"! That's all its about, the lower the pressure you exert onto the ground the better it is for the tank. Now people believe that this is all due to the length of the track, this is not so, the length of a tank track for a given tank is designed for other reasons beyond just ground pressure.. The ground pressure is measured in the normal way, lb/in² - Kg/cm². So what will give you the LOWEST ground pressure for a given tank track. A track that's 50mm wide and 2000mm long OR with a track that's 200mm wide and 2000mm long. Now transfer that to a "Tire". So if you have to reduce the ground pressure of a 60 Ton behemoth, which Track/Tire would you choose. Your 4x4 is no different. Tank Track LENGTH is all about Traversing obstacles while still being able to fully support the tanks MASSIVE WEIGHT as it crosses a ditch or climbs a block/log/obstacles...whatever they maybe. To aid a tanks manoeuvrability to traverse said obstacles, most tanks can in fact put 1 track into forward motion and the other into reverse motion, when this is done on flat ground we call this manoeuvre - "doing a doughnut", since it will leave a distinct doughnut scape on the ground because steel tracks can't bend sideways! Here endth the Lesson!
I thank him for it, because RU-vid changed their ads policies again. To put way more enjoying ads into all videos longer than 10 minutes. And he actively had to opted out of it.
Always good to find channels that are not full of ads. Some have some interesting content but they turn you off with 2 ads at the start and another 3 minutes in and so on.
IMO same tire IE KM3 255 85 16 vs 285 75 16, both around 33 inches, the skinny will work better in mud, since the mud always drags you to the border of the rut, and the side bitters are the same design. Skinny tires are also lighter, That said skinny tires are a lot harder to find, on the road wider is better.
It's 💯 % more resistance on sand, but as long u have enough power u don't need to worry much about resistance, a bit saym like driving on snow, anyway nice 🎩
I bet the thing with wide vs skinny is more like somewhere in between but the range of tyres people use is close enough together to not make enough difference. You would have to go to the extremes to really see the difference. There’s probably a compromise on either end and something in between is ideal. The biggest gains are from pressure then height as both give the longer “track”. I’ve been sand driving in a Nissan xtrail and the only reason I’ve been stuck is from clearance and getting crossed up
I live on the east coast of the U.S. and have a 2012 Chevy Suburban. It is my daily driver and weekend beach wagon. I've used Mud terrains, ATs, and even regular Light Duty street tires on the beach. Yes, ATs are a little better than Muds on the sand, but not enough to sway a decision on which to buy. When choosing a tire, you need to look at everything the vehicle will be used for. My truck spends 90% of its time on paved roads and the occasional weekend on the beach. I prefer using a wide AT tire because I don't even have an option for any type of harsh terrain near me so stronger sidewalls aren't needed. An AT provides a quieter ride than a mud tire. When I lived in Las Vegas, I would run a Mud terrain because the desert cactus was notorious for puncturing tires, and the extra thickness help, but the needles could go through even those. I currently have 305 series tires on the truck and the truck is capable of staying on top of the sand without airing down. I save the airing down for if I actually have issues, only because the previous owner went and put 22 in rims on it so the tires don't have a lot of sidewall. Once it's due for a tire replacement, I will be switching to a smaller rim (either 20s or 19s) package to give me more sidewall and allow me to air down without being concerned.
Why not compare 35×12.5-16 and 35x10.5-16 tyres(same tyre diameter+wheel diameter = same sidewall hieght) of the identical tread pattern and construction(pick bias or pick radial for both vehicles) with two vehicles same weight, tyre pressure, diff clearance, front/rear over hang, HP, TQ, wheel base, wheels 16x7 and 16x8(offset both +25mm or 16x8 and 16x7 measured at the outward sidewall are equal distant from the center of the vehicle), and track width; up the same sand obstacle and alternate who goes first on multiple obstacles, pick the same line as well. Would be good content, and follow each guideline as closely as possible and if thier is any differences say so and by how much.
Good video but... I don't understand why narrow tires are better in sand and I disagree with the examples you say (tractor and tanks). I don't want to say you are wrong with the tires but the examples are not good. Most of the tractors use wide tires for more flotation, better traction and less compactation, narrow tires are for not damaging the crop when you drive trought It. Modern tanks use wide tires and WW2 tanks have different width: -Russians as the T-34 use wide tracks and they work better in snow and mud. -Germans used narrow tracks for streets but they changed them to wider ones when they went offroad. -US tanks started with narrow tracks in their M4 but they changed them for wider ones in later versions of the M4 as the M4A3.
Hey Ronny, just a tip, because I’ve been arranging repairs on these since 1986, if you want your Engel to keep working, you should cover it with something. It’s not designed as an all weather outdoor unit like a Trailblazer etc. The led display will be the first to go followed by the electronic control panel, followed by the other bits. Keeping it out of the sun will also make it a lot more efficient.
Gone Bush I’ve had mine out on the back of my pickup bed for the last 5 years (uk) loads of heavy rain, it’s held up fine ismit more the heat that gets to them?
Kyle B yep, the heat will just bake the electric controls. Kyle is yours a 5 year old fridge or an earlier model? They will still work in the weather (older models more so that the newer models) and they’ll still last a while, just not as long as if they are covered. Parking a fridge in the sun doesn’t make a lot of sense anyway. Especially one with as little insulation as an Engel.
What about lowering the tire pressure in regular tires or 50|50 tires etc.. Is there not a difference there in terms of how much you can lower the pressure in them without risking damage?
You lost me when you tried to use tank tracks to justify your claims. however 80% accurate with very little science to back it. Took forever to get to the point. Then admitted that ATs are better in sand. Nobody I have ever heard of says MTs flat out CAN'T do sand, just not as good, which again, you admitted.
I never knew the myth about mud tires supposedly being bad on sand. I live in Florida, and in my area about 90% of the people that drive off-road in the sand use mud tires.
We have little mud in Norway but every educated driver here knows that skinny tires are best for snow due to less resistance,,, that's why I have skinnier tires on 16" rims for winter and wider tires with 18" for summer on my Jeep WJ,,, also, most ppl have dedicated snow tires with softer rubber during winter months (it's mandatory), but many 4x4 drivers us also Mud+Snow tires, and then often studded.
I agree with 99% of what you said in this video but I do remember driving out of Israelite Bay one trip it was raining and the clay track was slippery with deep bog holes everywhere. I had skinny AT's and a low powered 2.8 pretend turbo, all the other boys had wide tyres and more horsepower. I could idle through the bogholes and had no problems steering while the other guys had to gun it through and had trouble staying on the track. The skinnies cut through the slippery clay and gripped underneath whereas the fatties slipped on top of surface. But that's only once.
I think the wide vs narrow debate is so contentious because there are so many variables. Driving style is just as important as conditions. Also it seems to be more of a ratio thing. A 235/85/16 is "skinnier" than a 235/75/15 even though they are both 235mm wide. The latter is a much shorter tire; making it wider in comparison to it's height. But the former would be better off road because it's "longer" (fewer rotations per mile/km) just like was mentioned in the video. Also ratio of tire size to vehicle size (length, width and weight). The 235/75/15 would be better on a small stock setup because the vehicle would maintain it's original characteristics. Thus be more predictable. I agree about wider tires causing drag, but if the tires have side-biters, then that could be advantageous. Also tire weight comes into play here. Too much unsprung weight can overwork the suspension and cause breakages or cause the vehicle to be difficult to control. Also drag could be negated by more power or more gearing. There's a point of diminishing returns to every situation. Balance is key.
Hi Ronny, I just did a very wet Strazleki track, reduced tyre pressures to 28 on vehicle and trailer, encountered some very big puddles and felt I had to keep up momentum or get bogged (clay) whole car covered in muddy water and could not see a thing for a few seconds. What is the right way to tackle these big slippery pools ?
Mud tyres on sand being no good is less a myth and more a throwback. Take for example my 1980 4cy petrol 4wd its gutless so on the sand mud tyres just bog it down because to dig the sand and throw it out like they do aka rooster tails takes power that she simply doesn't have to spare so smoothe AT make a massive difference. My common rail diesel on the other hand has more than adequate power to spare so it makes little to no difference. Same can be said for width. Otherwise I pretty much agree with most of your points from the perspective of a modern powerful 4wd.
Great video Ronny 👍👍👍 though u can’t get through to some people, still stubborn to the end, mainly to lazy to let their tyres down, especially the entry to Fraser Island, (Inskip Point) , so funny the utube videos on that place, also good point about the people with lots of power thinking that will get them through, all points I believe true on your video, P.S I was at the same Xmas party as you recently but to shy to say hello to you and Torbs, (big personalities) I regret it though, should of said hello, never mind next time, take care, looking forward to next video thanks buddy 👍👍👍 Louis
I think the wide tire myth is derived or with the same type of person who doesn't air down. If you get a 265width tire at 40psi nd a 315tire at 40psi wider would be better. Community: I'm always confused though why Landover owners don't change rotor size and rim size. Is there an Australian law against doing that? Doesn't seem any computer or mechanical reason not to dro a 20in landrover rim to a 17in and proportional rotors.
Oddly enough, I was looking at this yesterday. Mate has a Disco 3 with 20" (?) wheels on it and he's looking at putting some better wheels/tyres on it. We took the wheels off one side and put a couple of 16" wheels with 33" tyres under the wheelarches, just to see how it looked. It looked... weird. Even though the tyres barely fit under the arches, the wheels look comically small. The Disco 3 is pretty heavy so I guess LR could argue that they HAD to fit 19" wheels so they could fit big brakes but, let's face it, if Toyota can get a 79 to stop using brakes that fit inside a 16" wheel so could LR if they wanted to. Pretty sure that the main reason LR fit big wheels and low-profile tyres to their newer cars is simply a design choice.
Yep - A dilemma Roadtyres (esp on huge rims) may slice the sidewall (pinch - on rocks / ruts) or crack the sidewall if lowered too much at all.. not a good recipe for anything off Asphalt. Too bad a lot of Luxo wagons have "huuge brake disks -for racing - and can't take smaller rims, and no guard clearance (or lift kit - due to very complex suspension / monocoque ) for bigger tyres. Shows flash ain't everything. j
Got 20 inch wheels on my Range Rover. Legal tyre choice is pretty limited. It came new with either 19 or 20 inch wheels, and here in France it has to have the right wheels and tyres to pass the inspection.
Are beadlock wheels required to run these lower psi numbers in your tires? Thank you for making these videos, I love off roading but there's no one to teach you these things.
No. I do 15psi on non beadlocks, however, if you get aggressive in rough terrain you will be more likely to knock your tire off the bead than you would with beadlocks.
Does anyone have any tips for knobby Dirtbike tires in sand? I get the fj to the destination pulling the bikes with no issue but the mix of sand and soil isn’t so fun on the Dirtbikes. I’m in Texas so I can’t run sand tires all the time as there are tons of rocks. I can be in rock hard terrain and go to super soft sand in less than a minute. How do I do both on a Dirtbike tire?
Whats the foot print of a tractor on sand, also, what is the foot print of a track vehicle in the sand? Science says that the bigger the footprint the more likely one will have more traction.
Thank you for these videos. I just upgraded from a less capable 4x4 for more adventurous journeys. While not a complete novice, I definitely need an education and this channel is pure gold.
Hey Ronny, one thing that I really think would be great for you to explain which would aid in understanding tyre pressures especially in soft terrain is the weight capacity of that ground. Airing down spreads the weight of your vehicle over much more area of that ground creating much less pressure and therefore allowing some horizontal resistance in the ground that provides forward traction versus a hard tyre where all the grounds tractive capacity is providing vertical resistance with nothing spare to provide horizontal drive, which leads to you getting bogged. All ground you travel over has a certain amount of capacity and in 4Wheeling our aim should always be to maximize horizontal traction. The best way to do that is to minimise vertical pressure demand on the terrain.
I agree with everything you said except the wide/narrow for sand and comparing it to a tractor. Airing down a wide tire would be better then a narrow for the simple reason that your overall footprint is larger in both ways maximizing flotation. More is always better so you can put all the chances on your side. You're comparison should mirror that of snow wheeling as the exact same rules apply to sand. Here in Canada we snow wheel with wide to air down for as large a footprint as possible, especially if your lead rig and breaking trail. Perfect example would be the Arctic Trucks of Iceland. Tractor and tank tracks are for mud and cross country terrain. Tractor tires are narrow so you can dig down for traction, they do not float. The tractor example dose depends on terrain. if terrain is loose, farmers will double the number of wheels for more traction or go with a much wider tire/wheel combo. But overall solid video Ronny. Cheers.
Same vehicle weight and same tyre pressure will give the same size contact patch whether wide or narrow, the narrow tyre will just get a longer footprint. The advantage of the narrow tyre is that it is running over less fresh sand, so it needs less effort to push through soft sand. The advantage of the wide tyre is that the sidewalls have to flex less for the same size contact patch, making it safer to drive at higher speeds on low tyre pressure.
Snow driving isn't directly relatable to sand. It has similarities but is more a blend on mud & sand. Your footprint is related to ground pressure, it doesn't matter whether you have wide or narrow tyres, your ground pressure will be the same if you have the same amount of tyre in contact with the ground. This is a function of weight and tyre pressure, the width of the tyre is immaterial. The wider tyre differs only in that the shape of the footprint is not as long, you've got more rolling resistance which has to be overcome. The additional wheels on tractors is due to requiring less ground pressure in order to not sink in particular situations. As per the examples given, sometimes wider is better, sometimes narrower is better.
@@JeremyPetho if we are talking about comparing a 12.50 to a 10.50 then yes, i would agree and say the difference is marginal and hardly worth saying that one is better then the other. But if the comparison is more extreme from a 245mm to a 315mm then obviously the larger will be better.
@@k2svpete On the contrary. both sand and snow driving share the same basic wheeling principals. Ask anyone who lives in an extended snow climate like us in Canada. Experience and motorsports has proven this. Theoretical thinking if you never done it cant be used to justify and win your point. Mud in the comparison has no place as snow dose not have the viscosity and density resistance that mud has. The primary function of a tractor tire is traction in dirt and little mud. Both of which have a hard pack near the surface, unless your mud ends up being a soft spot. Sand is not part of a tractors function unless it has flotation tires. So with that cleared out of the way, i stick by what i said about it not being a popper example.
