Great find. Warmachine has an even more severe problem with the description vs the actual effect. I tried to contact the support about that and about the wrong wording on more or less all officers (german language for me), they just refuse to understand and give useless information as response.
@@MoreScop3s 44mag had a video where he tested firepower vs damage intensity and got some weird numbers as result, I did some math on it and it was quite obvious from the result that the firepower buff from warmachine does something else. But I cant find the video anymore.
Please do re-test in Part 2. Your Infantry has a 10% firepower buff for your artillery unit, see at 08:59 Meanwhile, in the first two cases, it does not receive this buff
if you look at 02:48 my howie is 3 grids away and still has the symbol underneath it, i think its broken and just show it on all your troops becuase also thorns ability to give you the 8% firepower buff is only after 8 seconds when her skill activates, maybe this could be eye of providence skill that states you get extra 10% if not in allied territory, im not sure what causes this ill have to do other testing for this but i can promise you that in this test she did not give my howie the buff as also its only 1 map grid and my howie was 2 map grids away at 08:59 :)
@@MoreScop3s Thorn Countess gives 1 grid, but Special skill of EverBloom is 2 grids. I saw your Infantry attack the base at 1:36 and 3:04, the two gun icons do not appear below your Howi. But at 8:53 it's different. That's why your third test performed better than the previous two. For lesson 1: I haven't tested whether having Eye of Providence as Captian or Aide changes anything to Skill damage, but your test is clear. With lesson 2: 30% damage > 30% skill damage. This is clear. That's why Lilith doesn't create a skill that gives 30% dmg. You will lose 1 skill slot just to make a slight change in skill damage. Extension: you can test learning 40% Firepower and 30% skill damage. You will see the difference.
so you are correct about thorn and everbloom and i just redone the test in whole.. i got the exact same skill dmg from all the tests... so now im not sure why maybe thorn and everbloom dont effect it but im thinking that the firspower only affects the main shot but that also dont make sense becuase the skillshot is calculated from the firepower lol so yeah im completly stumped
also why is there a 30% skill dmg if its only giving 22% it dont make sense, and further to add to that why do i get different results from when i change it from lib to eye, this also does not make any sense, (re tested this aswell and got the exact same numbers)
My biggest complaint right now is that Liillith is hot and heavy to roll out the Navy Update - but the game has so many quality of life fixes and officer skill fixes it needs first imo. But fixing the game doesn't drain our wallets like introducing new content :(
well its nice to get some new content i think right now navy is a good call but at the same time they do need a department to work on fixes at the same time
@@MoreScop3snavy is gonna flop just like when they introduced those skybombers. Navy specific maps and only a couple of lvl3 cities. Makes no sense unlike planes where you can use anywhere.
Nicely explained / demonstrated Scop3s, the only explanation I can think of, is that some kind of tolerance / chance built into every attack eg. +/- 5% every attack but Lilith don't mention anything like that, will be interesting hearing from Lilith. Keep up the fantastic work buddy.
I would highly recommend using averages when running these kinds of tests - run each test at least 3 times (maybe even 5) and then use the average for that test combo. That will provide more accurate overall results by averaging out the margins of error. Yes, it will take longer to run more tests, but if you're trying to answer questions of "what's best?," it's worth spending the extra time
so if im doing main attack you are acorrect as there are things that can affect this ie the artillery accuracy, but when it comes it skill damage its a fix number every single time.. i could do this test 100 times and ill get the exact same number every time buddy, this only changes if you have a skill that is a chance skill so for example 10% chance to hit a crit.. yes this can chance the outcome of a skill dmg shot but if you are not using chance skill then its always the exact same number no matter how many times you do the test
@@MoreScop3s I am like you, I like things to be predictable. And your logic is sound had officer damage been truly fixed. I am making some educated guesses here that officer damage is a coefficient that relies on your unit's firepower. And the unit's firepower is itself a combination of many factors, some of which are as you called them, "chance" variables (like accuracy). There might also be variables introduced from research skills that do not reflect directly in the displayed firepower of the unit. So it is not entirely inconceivable that a single test might produce such variance. However, if you run a bunch of tests and get averages, the averages should work as you expect them to work. If they don't, then you can conclude that the officer skills, or at least their descriptions, are broken. Thank you for your content!
In the first test where you added 30% skill damage from professor pain skill the result of ~22% overall skill damage increase is correct. The reason it is not the full 30% is because you are not starting with a base of 100%. Liberte already has a 40% buff from eye skill, so she is starting from a base of 140%. Eye already has a 65% buff from himself (40% from Awakening skill and 25% from his first skill), so he is starting from a base of 165%. If you do all the math you will see that in first test you had a total effective coefficient of 5275, and then after adding the 30% skill damage buff, you had a total effective coefficient of 6325. So should only be a 20% increase. The only way I can get the math to work out to be closer to a 22% increase is if Eye's first skill that gives his tactical skill a 25% boost is applied first before other buffs such that he is effectively always starting off with a coefficient of 1875 instead of 1500. If you do the math assuming that, then you would expect to get an increase of 21.4% by adding 30% skill damage buff.
btw the reason why skills can do different dmg is cause of the "firing Accuracy" and allso skills can crit. wich means the dmg output cant be 100% the same every time cause the better you hit the target with your skill shot the more dmg u deal with it :D
yes sir! it could just be poor wording and when they say this officers troop it could mean both officers but why they removed it to start with im not sure
@@MoreScop3slady liberty with level 5 active does 2000 skill dmg coefficient, gives the troops 10 - 15% load reduction (reload time). FYI accuracy and load time also contribute to the firepower and final skill dmg of the troop.
@@MoreScop3sthats why when it comes to pairing officers, we always have to put THE BUFFERS ( officers who have some kind of buffs that last for X seconds described inside their active skills) FIRST, then a main damage dealer SECOND. For example, for valkyrie and pain pair, you put VALKYRIE FIRST, not PAIN because valkyrie gives 15% dmg increase within 4/8 (cant recall) JUST SO, the 2nd officer also gets the dmg buff before it shoots the 2nd skill. THE BUFFERS also apply the buff BEFORE the BUFFERS shoot the skill on their own.
@@iawaki ok i just misread the thing on my phone (i don't have good eyes) so i'mma recomment this just in case you're still looking for more info. Yeah, you're completely right, in terms of maximizing the damage output, valkyrie should always be the first instead of pain, cause valkyrie will give HERSELF & PAIN 15% damage boost, before BOTH get to use their skills. But there is one thing you need to take note, maximizing is a thing, but there's also a thing where anything being your most powerful tool, must be used first, for instance, pain can quickly deal some more damage at the eighth second that valkyrie can do, that also gives you the advantage (you might kill 1-2 more troops just so you receive less damage from enemy skills). Overall, buffers should always be placed first, there are not a lot of situations where you need your best damage dealer to be first, and then your buffer second it's just a waste.
Omg lol you’re 100% right about eye of Providence leading does not mean they need to be the first officer. Thought they already fixed this. Some of the old officers used to say the same thing on some of their skills but they fixed it. I think spanner, guardian of truth and antonina all had skills that said when leading but it never meant they needed to be the first officer and they changed the description
@@m_go7128 no tip of the spear says when serving as captain which means they need to be the first officer. EOP says when leading an artillery troop and spanner, guardian of truth and Antonina used to say the same thing and Lilith already came out said that was a translation error and did not mean they need to the 1st officer and fixed the description
@@tutmaster2407 I was not referring to you, but to the Video Creator who mentioned Argent Flame. I know what the description of Tip of the Spear says, thanks.
Hi Scop3s, I think during your first test when Lady Liberty is the captain, she is also trained with %30 skill demage but when Eye of provinence is the captain she is not trained with any skill. I think the difference is caused by this mistake. Maybe it is an editing mistake I am not sure. It is better you check it again.
nope on my first attack there is no skills attached buddy but i appricate you looking deep into this as it shows people want to know this sort of info! but i can confirm on the first 2 attacks there was 0 additional skills and only on the second testings there where skills involved
I didn't see any problems. 1. The Eye must be in an artillery unit to receive the bonus, no matter what position he is in. There shouldn't be a bonus if you put his on a tank. 2. Damage enhancement is an enhancement of the damage itself and also an enhancement of the skill. Each of the values contributes to different parts of the general formula for calculating damage from skills. That is why the final damage is greater than if there was simply an increase in damage from the skill. 3. The formula itself is nonlinear. Increasing something by 30% does not mean increasing the raw damage output by 30%. 4. And finally, the game has a lot of randomness when dealing damage. The correct thing to do is to take many measurements under the same conditions and then average the results. Nobody does this on RU-vid.
correct if you are talking about normal attack due to things like accuracy and things... but when dealing with skill dmg its always the same number no matter what... sure the raw dmg will be slightly more as its going to increase other areas too, but when you have skill dmg its always the same ive done the same test over and over if i did eye first and lib second 100 times without any additional skills it will always give the exact same result of 48.2m 1000000% of the time, this is a fact and always has been, but there also should not be a diffence in damage with either eye first of lib first as there is no skill from them that involve being the captain of the unit, hope you understand this :)
It's not should be identical dmg bcs it's depends from few random factors . Maybe was crit or better drop on dices . The difference is in 10 % range so for me it's fine .
well this is incorrect beccuase i dont have any crit skills on these officers and i also dont have any dice or chance skills on these officers. they are 100% all the time skills so therefor the numbers will always be identical each time
did you have tested multiple runs without changing anything between? i can only imagine that the different numbers when changing lib and EoP places on the unit. come from the firing accuracy the unit has. you have 25 howitzers and the skill is a coefficient, so it must be bound to the unit damage. so maybe theres not all 25 howitzers hitting the base which changes the calculated damage for officer skill. but if this is right you would have changing damage in multiple runs, without changing anything. and keep in mind that the infantry tech and the 4th skill of everbloom affect nearby units. i think it is 2 fields but im not sure.
no it has not lol, skill dmg is a conistant number unless you have chance skills, these officers im testing dont have any such skills and therefor will always produce the same number each time
Changing skills is criminal, if you awaken an officer for his skill perks they should stay the same... Also, you did a test with Argent Flame and Eye and i think re-doing that test and looking at the difference between then and now would also show the criminal behaviour of lilith and what theyre doing to their F2P players.
@MoreScop3s I'm just saying, I've also noticed a difference between having flame and eye set up that my DMG to bases has decreased massively... and assumed the new awakened eye skill has effected it with the "leading officer" rather than "captain". I can't wait to hear what that outcome is, if eye still works great as an aide or if he generally does have to be a captain and whoever is writing the skills aren't the same person or is a team that generally just makes it up as they go along 🤣 Frustrating as *beep* 🤣
Problem solve...thanks a lot... If the aide is antonina the 4th skill of skill boost 25% can still apll for captain??.. thnks for response and have ah good day..❤❤❤q
Is it cool to get in touch with you through disc to help expand this? I don't want credit or anything, I've always played this as a RPG style scenario where you get a range of damage like in wow Vs a range of defense, often when I conduct my tests I do between 5-6 to get a small range to see if I can find a consistency. If you're not interested in me that's fine I won't take it personally xD
sure my link in at the top of the discription, i also stream everyday on Twitch.tv/Scop3s_ and always happy to chat live to you there! feel free to dm me but i also make sure my tests are the consistent and when it comes to skill dmg its always the same result unless you are working with things like has 20% chance to activate but unless you have these chance skills then you will get the exact same number everytime
Its a carnival game what you expect...its all RNG which is stupid it should be set damage and the same for how your troop is built...this is how to keep people spending
@MoreScop3s every test i use to do in this stupid game id do 10 of the same tests than just get an avg... officer damage is supposed to be set but is it really anymore... just like base skins i had the default skin outperform the omega cannon on avg when tests 2 yrs ago.. game is junk..
dude though been in game 3 years my wee alliance just became s24’s 30th top alliance&gameplay knowledge &💩started going👆when started battle for titles,as for officers skills way👇my list🥹🥹🥹do however know couple of players could set you right on officer skill sets.🍻🥰fae🏴
try plain dundonian😁here not a scooby about officer skills,got a lot of learning to catch up huge London phone book list,FxcK alliance making waves on s24& a”SoraTerumi & a SIDRIAX”would help you understand new officer buffs etc…
