To be fair it seems like the best course of action after imagining what would happen if the idea for supercharged shootaz came to the rest of the ork population
It's just an empty silo that they believe can move, won't fill with water, is always filled with air, and is full of consoles and has all kinds of weapons around it.
imagine being a 300yo space marine whose seen it all, expecting a routine Ork extermination with minimal if any casualties only to watch one of your brothers have his power armour blown clean through instantly in one shot the moment you land and realising as the shots keep coming this isn't a single super weapon but all the enemy guns
So, a normal encounter with the enemy then. Space marines regularly fight enemies that can piece their armor with no problem or worse. They all know one day they're going to die in battle, It's not really a surprise. As for veterans getting randomly killed by some lucky grunt, meh, that happens a lot in real life too, that's war. Sometimes luck is really the only thing keeping you alive.
Nah. More that they realize how they're little different to the meek mortals they're consistently lording themselves over. They've been reduced to using actual cover, reconnaissance, and having to keep their heads down, instead of being the zealous shock assault troops they were created to replace with their long shelf life.
@@venom0825 You type a lot while also missing the point. Expecting to have your armor pierced by necrons or elves is one thing but the usual drop to kill some orcs is entirely different. Losing a terminator to small arms fire is unheard of not "a normal encounter"
@bovineintervention276 the enemy bringing a weapon that can hurt even your big boys is indeed very normal in war, Especially in 40k. Ork have shown time and time again that there weapons are very dangerous, logic defying and can melt practically anything the imperium has. They are not an enemy the imperium underestimate. Practice every faction has something that can turn even a terminator to nothing, small arms or not. So again, a normal engagement. Don't talk to me about "missing the point" when you don't even have a point for I to miss.
The Thunderhawk performed a danger close on an Ork strongpoint, so close that Sgt Scipio (the tactical marine sarge from Assault on Black Reach) actually said that it was a highly risky maneuver.
I'd say losing a terminator and a dozen space marines to deny the orks a weapon that one shots you and your brothers is a sacrifice well worth making, imagine if that tech made it off world to other ork waaaghs, it would be a bloodbath.
That wasn't what they died for. A shoota that kills space marines is an exterminatus level threat. If they had failed to recover the guns, they would have destroyed the whole planet. Those space marines died to save the remaining inhabitants. That's what was barely worth the sacrifice of so many space marines.
It's been said once, it will be said again. The only reason the galaxy isn't just fully controlled by Orcs, is because they like fighting too much to co-operate long terms. It takes a single warboss with a halfway decent idea, and a few months of co-operation to bulldoze the Imperium.
@@kiritotheabridgedgod4178Yes but thats because the imperium is aware that killing the biggest ork means they fall into dissaray. Now if the orks decided to make that harder for the imperium by making guns that could easily take down the best the imperium has to offer then waaaghs could far more easily spiral out of control. Though now that I think about it why doesnt the imperium just send those fancy assasins to kill the biggest and baddest orks? Sure would still be a planet infested by orks but would make them alot easier to combat in any scenario.
The way ork genetic knowledge and technology works, that super weapon technology wasn’t even “lost forever”. When a waagh goes on for long enough, they unlock more and more tech. Thus, I can assure you, those super weapons can and will make a reappearance
@@Hyde-dg7ef I couldn’t tell you to be honest. I vaguely remember seeing yarrick (or however he is spelled) in an old ass white dwarf (like one of the first 30 or something), so it’s probably 1st or 2nd edition lore
@@Hyde-dg7ef given that its a river it means that either the river was realy deep or the orks didnt know how deep it truly was so their subs partialy dove through rock.....
Knowing Orkz, it probably was just a slightly bigger shoota with a dial on it that has the number "11" on it to represent it being supercharged and that's it
@@prodb4sed382 Yes, the design for far superior tech is already in their genes. Once they gather enough Waaagh energy from facing a good enough foe they’ll be back to building battle moons or given challenge things from The War in Heaven. They’re not dissimilar from the AbMech really. All their tinkering really is just rediscovering greater tech from the past
@@prodb4sed382 - the marines got rid of that knowledge by exterminating them "Exterminating them" how exactly? Orks are mushrooms, the only way to completely exterminate them is to use Exterminatus on the planet they are on.
Honestly, a Terminator and some battle brothers are an acceptable loss if it prevents the War for Armageddon from becoming super lethal for anyone in powered armor. Not counting lighter vehicles from the guard like Sentinels, Chimeras, weapon batteries, etc. that the Ork weapons could decimate.
An exterminatus order would have prevented that just as well, which means those space marines died to protect a few billion imperial subjects. Truly just barely worth it.
To be fair, I don't think the space marines really contribute much since there are far too few of them to make a difference in battle (1000 space marines in a chapter), especially considering how a typical army might have millions of weapons that can defeat space marines such as leman russ tanks and xv8 crisis suits.
@@Verrin_the_Wyvern without space marines, Imperium stand no chance. It was space marines who were able to drove back War of the beast, hive fleet....etc
Barely worth it because Sicarius lost 12 line brothers. 100+years of training each. Plus a termie. That'a veteran with even more experience and skills. Plus a wrecked suit of termie armor, which is extremely hard to repair, let alone build. Lost 12 out of 100 fully trained Astartes. So yeah.... barely worth it 😢
@@alexhulea2735considering the other result could have been mass spreading of a weapon that could pierce even the thickest armor of a space marine, let alone anything that moved, I’d say it was massively worth it when you remove personal costs.
Hilarious, given Orks knowledge comes from their psychic link (I.e the more Orks there are the more mekboyz, weirdboyz etc. appear) Zanzag's Waagh was tiny. Like only 10,000 orks tiny, most Waaagh's that get mentioned are the big ones that have hundreds of thousands of orks sometimes millions, like that's (not including pdf or any kind of fire support thunderhawk etc) 100 orks per marinewhich for the tabletop would be impressive but for the lore it's a huge stain on the smurfs for getting bodied by the smallest Waagh in existence
And that makes their extermination super worth it.If it could unlock this tech at this size,who knows what would be unleashed if they became a proper WAAAGH.
Keeping orcs in check and erasing deadly anti-marine technology is only worth a terminator and a few marines? I would’ve thought that’d be an awesome trade
12 space Marines is a huge investment of roughly a decade or so of training each. That's 12% of a company and over 120 years of training was lost. A terminator is a century+ old veteran possessing large amounts of operational experience and knowledge. That's not a loss that can be easily replaced. It takes around 120 man-years to do the basic induction process, and the combat experience of a terminator isn't easily acquired.
Well, those Hive Cities were a lost cause for the Imperium either way, saving them would have meant getting at least some production capacity back on the planet, but killing the Warboss meant no other planets would meet the same fate.
If the hive cities really were a lost cause, they would have just peaced out and destroyed the whole planet from orbit. No, the space marines died to save what was left of the planet. That's why it was only barely worth it.
I'm just imagined the creating process of this weapon. - zagzag coming to boiz with slightly bigger shoota "Hey ya boiz. I got new shoota that can blow that big blue hummies with one daka". "Sure boss, dat must have more daka, cause it was bigger" 😅
Honestly, kind of a W for Cato. Seriously. Letting Orks figure out that kind of firepower is a major threat to literally everything, let alone your brother space marines. Guns that powerful proliferating amongst an enemy as numerous as the Orks would spell a massive disaster, making a terminator and 12 marines not even a blip on the radar.
The best thing about any ork battle is they pretty much only lose because they believe they can lose. If orks believe they can kill a space Marine with one shot, then they will be able to, given there are enough other orks in the wargh that also belive that to be the case. Pretty much all ork weaponry only works because they believe it does. Red paint actually does make ork vehicles faster, just because they believe it does.
Space Marines don't rely entirely on their power armor, they face threats that can penetrate it all the time. They use speed of aggression and tactics to overwhelm foes, if their armor protects them then that's a bonus.
Ork weapons not being able to hurt space marines sounds like imperial propaganda. The smurfs just got complacent and it cost them. To claim the orks had super special rare guns is just poor writing.
Oh man I remember reading this narrative battle report in whitedwarf as a kid. The ork submersible was what made me fall in love with orks and buy the assault on black reach boxset.
"I, CATO SICARIUS CAUGHT THE ORKS IN COMPLETE DISARRAY" "Um... When are the orks ever in arra-" "IT WAS A MARVELOUS DISPLAY OF TACTICS AS I, CATO SICARIUS SLAYED THE WRETCHED GREEN BEASTS"
Space Marines are one of the largest and most powerful military factions in the Imperium of Man. Their standard armor is on par with many culture's Main Battle Tanks. Thus, a weapon that could fatally one-shot a Space Marine has the potential to be an absolute strategic threat to Imperial and Galactic security. I'd say Cato made the right prioritization. Civilians may not have liked it, but the consequences of not making that decision if the tech spread are not worth considering.
ANY ork mechaniak can make a super charged shoota...if you just believe that it is, it shall be. Hell, imagine of the idea of an Ork Primarch started sweeping through them...oh wait. Ghazkull.
'...Lost a terminator and a dozen Space Marines to prevent Orks from having a one shot weapon...' Death Korps of Kreig *in unison* : 'Sounds like a normal Monday .'
“Lost a couple dozen, +1 terminator”. “It was barely worth it” I mean considering it was a weapon that reduced an entire planet to 3 hive cities and 1 shot space marines, I’d say that’s pretty well worth it
The toughest choices required the strongest of wills, thanks to Cato he stopped the orks from having super anti space marines and saved possibly millions of space marines but at what cost 😢 courage and honor
Considering how powerful the shootas were, they would have wreaked absolute havoc galaxy wide if the knowledge had gotten off world. So I think a dozen space marines and one terminator are a very worthy trade
Salamanders would have been holding the humans hands and jumping in front of shots. Aka needless casualties of soldiers that take 100s of years to make and replace for a single human. Idk how anyone likes them lol. Just like them because “they like humans” bruh this is grim dark
CORRECTION, It will remain lost until Games Workshop decides it’s needed again lol Maybe even Ghaz Ghoul (probably spelt his name wrong) will be using them against Khorne Berserkers! And other chaos space marines
"Barely worth it" it's like one of the instances where it actually makes sense for space marines to stop saving humans and go on a full hunt. Less super shootas = more alive space marines = more alive humans
"Lost forever," he says, like the 'technology' wasn't just Zanzag deciding to try and make a gun that shoots harder. They'll reappear the next time an ork warboss has that thought.
I don’t think that any Space Marine would ever say it wasn't worth it, they accomplished the mission, snuffed out a technology that would ABSOLUTELY have been a problem galaxy wide had it been permitted to spread, and the 12 died a glorious death on the field of battle in the name of the God Emperor...sounds to me like everything a Space Marine could want and more
Painfull sellection, training, adaptation, surgeries and unique armour to make a single astartes... orks shoot him with a single daka... ehhh 40K scrapping at the bottom of a barrel.
Destroyed weapon technology powerful enough to beat the Imperium and lost practially nothing relevant in the big stategic picture, concludes that the Mission was barely worth it. Is this AI or human idi*cy?
Supacharged shootas capable of one-shotting Space Marines would attrition their forces to unacceptable levels. Abandoning defense of the Hive cities in pursuit of hunting down the main encampment of these xenos before the Supacharged Shootas could kill too many Space Marines was a bold and daring plan, and thats why it would work, and thats why they were Ultramarines. The best of the best, First of the Emperors Men 👍😁
Of course they prioritised taking out Zanzag over defending. A xenos who can mass produce anti space marine munitions is an easy exterminatus class threat. So by going after Zanzag the old fashioned way, they were in fact protecting the hive cities. Just not from the orkz.
Yeah the guy made the right call to neutralize the superior gun manufacture line. The losses are like nothing compared to taking out a stompa/gargant garage city. Priorities man. It'll be another 100 years till another mad scientist level like Zan appears, and it's not even likely their comparable science would result in a hyper shoota, it could be in armor that orks are told makes you invisible but doesn't but it don't matter it makes you braver, or another shade of red... that's the same shade of red but faster, or something just equally dumb, like hyper sporing, they spore and grow twice as fast but are twice as dumb.
"the mission was barely worth it" right, cuz if that tech got to the rest of the orcs that would have almost been preferable to the casualties they took
