It’s a familiar story. Land Rover have always been drivers of innovation & new technologies. Unfortunately that means that it’s common for those things to go wrong. It may be that your Defender is in that category. Additionally, there’s hardly any petrol models out there. In Europe, no one would buy a petrol one (unless it’s the high end super fast one).
It’s not the dealership. It’s the brand. It happens with range rovers and land rovers.... people buy these and this is actually pretty normal... sadly.
Haha - I'm British - I had a choice between a Range Rover Sport and a X5 3.0sd 08 reg on 55k. My mechanic loves Land Rovers. Shop full of Range Rovers. Instinctively I chose the USA made X5. 115k later apart from having the injectors cleaned, couple of suspension bits, headlight that started misting over and a couple of air bags at the back. She still starts on the button and has never let me down. Sadly it's not a proper Land Rover not being made in the UK. It's a Euro car - with a bit of UK design and I'm guessing most likely near asian software connecting the 85 ECUs?......
@@Chrisk427 It was not possible to reduce the quality any further than it already was by that stage. People who relied on their 4x4 for their livelihood or in some extreme climates even for their lives, stopped buying LR years before.
I think the solution is obvious. Upgrade the software to the previous version. I've done it with this computer. It came with Windows 8 and I've upgraded it to Windows 7.
@@michelt4390 I had the same thing happen to my brand new ford. Check engine light at about 3000 miles. There was a TSB for a software update months before I bought my car they just didn't bother. Will likely be my last new car purchase. Dealers don't care about their customers.
My thought exactly. I have similarly bad experience with Lincoln, they still don't know what is wrong. My Jeep had some issues but at least all was resolved. Tesla as well, they have a mobile service on top of it, didn't have to go anywhere, all fixed in my driveway.
There’s actually one defender here in the uk on RU-vid that lasted 8miles before check engine light came on.. that’s 8 miles from collection from dealer 😬😬 you’ve done really well!!
I think maybe this video shows how the normal customer would be treated, the next video they will have discovered the videos and will go above and beyond to make themselves look good.
My neighbor got himself a Range Rover and it drives him crazy every week. There's just story after story of the bloody thing breaking down and stranded him silly. Then he finally decided enough is enough, sold the bloody thing.... And bought himself a Jaguar 🤣 The towing industry must've hit another jackpot.
Can quality control really be that hard! Something is profoundly wrong and some heads need to roll. If they could turn their reputation around they would have so many more customers and I might be one of them.
I dated a lady years ago that bought the Supercharged Range rover--a little over 100k.On the 2nd month the check engine light came on,I drove it sometimes and could tell something was not right with the supercharger--the power was sluggish.That vehicle was in and out of the shop several times--I think 3 in the first year--and these were not overnighters--these were 5 to 10 day layovers.When we stopped dating--that check engine light was on--car was in its 2nd year--had 14k miles.They also would fight her on giving a loaner car and had to give her a car from the used car lot because all 4 loaner cars were out--and this was everytime it broke.These vehicles also lose a lot of resale because of this.I would never get one.
A friend of mine would get Audi A7s or A6s when he took his 911 Turbo in for servicing so I mean it isn't always what you'd expect. He has 4 Porsches now, the cheapest of which is like $120,000, and his loaner cars are usually Audis.
'Hard reboot'... so basically the dealership disconnected and reconnected the negative cable to the 12v battery. I think I'll go out in my garage and polish my trustworthy Honda.
@@CarThings___ Hmmm gee I wonder why no one buys those I've seen more old Land Cruiser pickups and Hiluxes than land rovers still driving around the world than those
@DBD 34 Goldie Not true. Their older Diesels were incredibly simple specifically so their owners can work on them themselves. in fact, the TD5 ended the DIY era for LR.
I was invited to JLR event 2 years ago where they were showing off the new Discovery...They took us over the course of the ramps, climbing up and down, demonstrating the capability of the vehicle, and as we got on the articulation ramp that puts the car on 3 wheels, Discovery’s screens froze, and vehicle stalled. It was quite embarrassing. I thought then that they’re way over complicating this vehicle with electronics, especially when reliability is questionable already. Your video proves the point. Good luck with that “white delight” 😬
I was in a Vogue RangeRover on the test circuit when it shit it's rear suspension airbag and then consequently ripped the rear bumper off as it was dragging it's arse in the mud.. test driver was like. Oh well, I'll just get another one 😂 🙈 Good sales pitch mate... I think I'll give it a miss thanks.
So basically guys, More miles was put on the new defender, going back and fourth to the dealership and mileage was added from the service department testing it... AMAZING
I can't believe Land Rover corporate hasn't just stepped in, replaced the vehicle and apologized profusely. This is comically bad for their public relations.
why should they? english brands have been doing this for decades, they put people talking about how expensive and bad german cars are, while they re the expensive and very dubious built quality ones and most people have idiotically loved all of that. americans in general jumped on the wagon and that has been the mantra that every so called 'petrolhead' knows to parrot very well, it has been working, why do you think they would change?
I'll bet you they would have IF any replacement wouldn't break down in the same fashion. I'll bet that they're ALL having problems ... throughout the production line.
I really want to like the Defender but I would never buy a vehicle that needs to go back to the dealer twice for repairs within the first few weeks of ownership and under 500 miles done. Great journalism as always TFL! Can't wait for the next video: Our Brand New Land Rover Defender Qualifies under Lemon Law
I like the Defender somewhat as well. But I saw the new Bronco today. I really like that. Even the interior was really nice. And most likely far more reliable Although its also a new model so you never now.
@@gearjunkie3402 The Bronco is using the existing Ecoboost engines and 10 speed transmissions that have been out for years, and have proven to be reliable.
As a longterm landrover owner, something like they experienced is normal for landrover 🤣. Last time I was at the dealer the keyless entry suddenly worked like the car was a right hand drive. But the dealers are very polite and never charge anything for stuff like that. So if you buy a landrover. Just make a 5 minute check if everything is working
As someone who sells cars, I always tell customers Land Rovers are a vehicle you lease and give back when the lease is up and its still in the warranty period lol. Im just glad you guys typically only keep vehicles for about a year!
When I got my 4 runner we were also look at a Grand Cherokee. The finance guy came out and was asking us what we were looking at. We told him, he said "With the Grand Cherokee get the extended warranty". When we got the 4 runner he didn't even offer the extended warranty stating " you won't need it". Lol I wasn't going to buy anyway.
And Land Rover seriously expect people to drive to remote areas in these vehicles? My suggestion is that you always take 2 vehicles and make sure one of them is a Toyota.
John Cross lol if that was the case Land Rover wouldn't put 22inch wheels on their utilitarian offroader, they know the roughest terrain Defender owners will face is going over the kerb at the Starbucks drive thru
Land Rover software update : Disconnect the ground on the battery, count to 60 , hook-up the ground, software update complete.. then they used it for a shop vehicle to go get coffee and pizza for the boys in the garage , for 36 miles. Ok , it’s a brand new vehicle, why wasn’t the software update done when you drove it off the lot .?
You though about buying a crappy Land Rover what on earth did you expected from the most unreliable automaker??? Of course it brakes down all the time, didn’t you know anything about cara before getting this???
I was exactly in the same situation. No LR for me. It looks good at the show floor but they fall apart as soon as you drive out. Not to mention that now there is even more electronics there. Not to mention that air suspension.
@trigolis Hi The worst was a two week old Range Rover cost over £70K that had total electrical failure in the wilds of Scotland, could not open the doors and our dogs where stuck in the back and we could not get in. A large stone was used to break a window to get the doors open and let the dogs out, a long work was then in order to contact the hotel for a taxi and then Land Rover recovery.
trigolis You’re actually defending unreliability by referencing that you get to eat doughnuts and drink coffee while you wait for your car to be fixed? Lol, that’s some serious fanboying right there, nobody I know wants to have to get their car repaired multiple times a year, especially a brand new model 🤣
That feeling when the dealer has to send a 15-year-old Toyota pickup to give you a ride because your brand-new Land Rover is broken down for the second time in less than 500 miles. LOL.
Unfortunately, I believe the only reason you are even get this type of “service” is because of your channel. The average person would likely be ignored for months.
I had Mercedez and Land Rover. Everytme I enjoy service with Merk and suffer from land river services ( tried three different dealers. Same, more tried more suffered more troubles ).
To many layers of electronics for a good offroad vehicle. The question is what will happen after 100,000 miles? Turbo 4 and that weight POS comes to mind.
Honestly though new cars often have little issues especially from a brand new model, even a new Camry, thankfully Jaguar Land Rovers have a five-year 60,000 mile warranty with 4 year free maintenance and then the extended warranty is highly recommended LOL
It's not as bad as it seems. but landrover isn't the best when it comes to software. That's why when I pick up mine from service I just go through the menu for 3 minutes and check if everything is working
@@alexmorris3106 Oh stop. Modern cars are factually more reliable than cars from 20-30 years ago. Tech doesn't make cars unreliable, poor engineering execution on the other hand...
Land Rover have so much to answer for rolling out junk after junk. So what if your car never had any issues as there is a massive group of owners that have to resort to legal action to repair or obtain a refund for this sad excuse of a car. Stats dont lie these cars seduce you with good looks and kill with unreliability
Don’t know if you guys saw/read the article. I realize it’s a 6 cyl with different options but electrical and other gremlins like on your car could easily be model wide. I bet Corona is to blame so if it were me I would be handling it like you guys are. Being truthful not trashing. That’s what I love most about this channel. I sold cars for 12 plus years with the most time at BMW for 7. Just being truthful and honest with customers is why I sold any of the cars I did. My son and I can’t wait for more Defender content as he loves the defender and it helped me to show him the love for cars all of us enthusiasts have. I have a buddy in Land Rover sales and he is going to let us drive one and my son doesn’t know. Great work!
This has been one of the main reasons why I’ve always hesitated getting a Land Rover/Range Rover. I really appreciate your honest reporting of your experiences.
For god sakes, Land Rover. Get it together. This is embarrassing. The Defender was at the top of my list. To say I'm having second thoughts is an understatement.
@@vippsmillennial6336 If I wanted an old Defender, I probably wouldn't be considering this one at all. Fact is, as much as I love the old Defenders, I certainly don't want to DD one.
@@richfarfugnuven6308 Bronco is definitely high up on the list, but as an 8 year Wrangler owner, the removable roof and doors thing has lost some of its charm for me. That being said, I will take the occasional minor leak and wind noise over electrical gremlins any day,
Welcome to ownership of a late model vehicle. I’m a service advisor at a Honda dealer and there are several recalls for software updates, backup camera replacement, fuel pump replacement, door latch cables, etc. These recalls are all on 2017+ vehicles. As cars have more technology these problems won’t go away.
@@jtarchie Isn't Tesla recalling over 120K Model X SUVs for faulty steering software right now. I also remember a sudden acceleration issues earlier this year(Model S?)where cars were recalled. But you're right about quality issues concerning fit and finish, Teslas are pretty bad. I still applaud Musk for what he's done with the company and maybe in another 5 or 6 years they'll build a real solid car that operates like what the sticker price commands.
First rule of buying a Land Rover: Don’t buy a Land Rover. Second rule of buying a Land Rover: Turn around and return the Land Rover. Third rule of buying a Land Rover: After dealership rebuffs your request to return it head straight to your liquor store and keep a bottle of a very good spirit so you can at least have one good experience in your Land Rover. Please feel free to add to the list!!!!
*5TH RULE OF BUYING A LAND ROVER: **_ALWAYS drive in front of a tow truck - so that when you inevitably break down, you won't have to wait for a tow._* *6: **_Keep the Roadside Assistance phone number in your contacts - in case you can't find a tow truck to drive in front of._* 🤣
The original defender is utilitarian & can be fixed in Africa with basic tools, great build with no hi-tech gimmicks! The saying “ Don’t fix something, that’s not broken!”
Well, our abuse of the environment has simply gone on too long. I wonder why LR didn't just develop a cleaner engine for a car similar to the old Defender though. They changed the target buyer quite a bit. I suspect that there simply aren't that many people who want a car like the old one, no matter how hardcore they may be about it.
Exactly, the old Serie 1-2-3 and even most of the 90/110 could be fixed with bailing wires, and some basic tools... the new ones, well, not sure you'd want to take it anywhere without cell/towing coverage...
@@MorningNapalm because the 'good old' land rover everyone has a fond memory of, was created by BMW, they only knew how to make what basically were tractors, when it was sold, the new owner never cared for developing the brand has BMW did, and they became a complete status brand
Guys reflecting you like the car, regretfully you are going to be on a rocky ride ( no pun intended) As a Brit we are proud of this iconic brand, however I would not trust them to make a Yorkshire Pudding. The best of luck to you
You guys only visited the dealer three times during your first week of ownership, that's amazing! JLR is definitely getting more reliable. If you end up putting on more miles than the mechanic, we will know for sure.
I am so glad I came across your video. I want to thank you for potentially saving me hundreds of thousands (rands) in the "near" future. I was supposed to take delivery of my vehicle today, but called them and canceled. the beauty of you tube.
My Dad is 91. How did he live so long, when cars in his day came with 1 brake light, (2nd brake light was an option) no turn signals, or seat belts, and only 1 side view mirror?
Ok, I use to be very objective to your channel...but I'm very impressed that you guys are showing actual issues and not try to hide it like other car "experts" channel.
I talked to my local dealership in Canada mid November 2020. This review from TFL has crushed the demand for the Defenders single handedly. TFL truck has millions of subscriber and one of the best in business as reviewers. The JLR corporate should have stepped up way before things got out if their hands. Just sad. RIP
I'm always surprised that when a car is sold, the latest software updates are not installed. This happened to my parents with a new Subaru Outback...the car had issues with a "bog" when starting from a stop....dealer said, oh this doesn't have the latest software updates...which did address this issue..but apparently had to be discovered by the customer.
There was no software update. They just cleared to codes and drove it for a while and since the check engine light didn't come back on the problem was "solved."
@@justinfowler2857 yes there are updates, I have a 2011 honda crz and it was jerking when leaving a stop, no engine light or anything, they said it needed a firmware update, after that problem solved, crazy how a customer has to find out this stuff..
I'm not surprised really. The approach the software industry has taken recently is called agile. The mantra is don't design just react quickly to requirements and do frequent deliveries of small incremental updates with new features and fault fixes. It's likely that the versions installed in the vehicle when it left the factory had already been superseded or were shortly after. I think it is an approach that leads to low quality software.
A lot of software updates come out after the dealer receives the vehicles. Often the problem is they don’t update their inventory on the lot, and don’t update it when the vehicle is purchased either. They unfortunately pass that off to the customer post purchase.
@Joseph the turbos are the only thing that worries me... I mean, yes I know ford is reliable: my family bought a used Lincoln navigator, abused it for like 13 years and it still runs! (Now we use it as a work truck) But that was a naturally aspirated v8 so I don't really know how reliable these ford turbocharged engines are... Do you know?
@@simpleinverso8628 I thrash the crap out of my 2016 Ford Expedition Limited 4x4. Put a set of Bilsteins on it and Raptor Rims and Wheels (35in Tires). Twin catch cans. Sent the Turbos out to have bigger compressor wheels put in. Got a custom tune on it. I go everywhere with that thing. I go mudding, drive on rocks, drive the sand dunes. I drive everywhere with it. That low end torque with long curve is great. And nothing beats that Ford 8.8 for off-road. And I'm a Subaru guy.
I picked up my brand new 2020 Defender this month on the 12th. Before I even left the dealership parking lot my FM radio and Blutooth music from my iPhone had frequent static. I also discovered when I got home my map on the navigation wasn't working. I brought the car in the very next day and picked it up 2 days later. They were suppose to install the air compressor while they were fixing the radio and navigation but that never came in. I now discovered that there is no air blowing at my feet when I have that option chosen from the air conditioning. So now, once again, the car will eventually have to go back to the dealership. I bought this car banking on the reputation of the Defender knowing the reputation of Land Rover. I wanted to fall in love with this car but, with such a new relationship, I feel like I've already been betrayed by it. People that don't know me (i.e. strangers) give me compliments on my Defender. Everyone else that knows about the issues I'm having with this car just tell me, "I told you so". Dam, I should have gotten a Rubicon or waited for the new Bronco.
I have owned three Land Rover‘s and each one of them had a slew of problems. Had to cancel a long time planned trip because of the problems of brand new Rrange rover top-of-the-line. Promised myself I would never again buy Land Rover product.
I’ve had a discovery 3 for two years now, and it’s a 14 year old car with 150,000 miles. So far my list of faults are: 1) Stuck turbo actuator. Fix cost €0, fixed it with a clothe hanger That’s it. I think the disco 3 was probably their best 4x4
buy Toyota......Jeep .....whatever.....LR is over....its the Tiger that carries the dumbass...Tiger for Tata Motors.....dumbass is the cheated ones who buy the POS car.......I had two and......never
Landrover had year’s of development time to perfect this vehicle. How is it possible that LR launched a overland off-roader that’s suppose to take you to the most remote part of Earth with underline technical issues.? I love your reporting TFL!!
The question of course. as you mentioned at the end, is is this regular JLR customer service or is this "professional automotive RU-vidr with almost a million subscribers" customer service?
I've had similar experience with Mazda, bought a new Mazda 3 hatchback last year. Still under warranty and plenty of recalls of warranty work done by the dealership. Last year was the first year of a new gen and had a significant redesign and new tech added. I expected issues like this and dealership did everything JLR did and more, they always offered me a free unlimited loaner whenever I had to drop it off.
Yeah, my fiat was a shocker as well, from my personal experience it doesn’t really matter which manufacturer you go for if your car was made by Terry on a Wednesday your screwed, just an opinion before people start getting angry about a random comment on the net
Here's what really happened. It set the codes , you brought it in . The dealership didn't know what was wrong but found re flashes available. Did those and now the cameras don't work. Possibly didn't go through all the procedures for the flash or now the cameras need re calibration. Also the re flashing software update could have been flawed. Brand new vehicle, techs need training on.
Here’s what happen from a actual dealer tech’s perception , customer brings in brand new vehicle with check engine light. Tech checks codes, follows diagnostic procedures set by manufacturer. Procedures indicate to update PCM to latest calibration, which automatically clears codes, test drive vehicle, recheck for codes, if no codes present to release vehicle. All procedures I’m sure we’re followed and released vehicle to customer. Now, a new issue, likely caused by the reflash appears. A symptom driven search was done by tech, and no information is currently available for the given symptom. As per normal procedure, the tech writes into the engineers and get a written response from them. Tech does what he’s told. Problem is not fixed. And there is no known fix at this point in time. Engineers are working on a solution to the problem, as per engineers, release vehicle to customer until a fix is found for the issue. And just a little FYI, the tech’s are trained via web based and in person training, months before the vehicle is ever even release to the public for sale.
@@jklpino Nice post, got it in one. All this extra complexity isn't just on cars, it's virtually every device that has computer control. It all started on engine emission control but now has gone completely overboard. I work on photocopiers, timing for paper exit or jam conditions are crazy now. Designers are trying to make things far more complicated than is necessary. Why, is the question I would really like to know?
@@jklpino heres my background. 42 years as a dealership master technician. What you said is good except for the fact that they drove it 36 miles or so and never said anything about the cameras not working? You think they never put it in reverse? They should have told them up front that they weren't working. It seems like TFL noticed the first time they put it in reverse. I've programmed plenty of computers and camera systems, lane keep assist systems with targets and cameras aimed at them. I think they didn't communicate to them that after the reflash the cameras quit working and they were looking into it. I've talked to Nissan engineers many times .they don't get back to you immediately. Usually 24 hours.
Tommy: "We had (2) two used Land Rovers that were dependable ...". LOLz... Well Tommy that's because the previous owners, aka suckers, worked out all of the kinks for you ... how nice of them, right?
I just have to share my one Land Rover story. I am on a helicopter fire crew in California and I work 12 days on and 2 days off. On my 2 days off my relief driver brought me a rental Land Rover Discovery. He was given this vehicle because it was all that was left on the lot. Now, I am well aware of the reputation of Land Rover vehicles but I thought "How bad could they be?" . Even just driving away the first time, it didn't run right. It had an odd hesitation among other weird idiosyncrasies. The next day I had to make a drive to San Bernardino for an appointment. On the way back home, on the freeway, the vehicle started slowing down. It was only doing 45 miles an hour when I finally made it off the freeway and to a gas station. I filed it with premium to see if the cheaper gas had been the problem. I was now able to keep up with traffic for some reason but the engine would have a loud knock occasionally that would go away if I shifted manually rather than having it in automatic. Then, I decided to drive out to another place on the way home when, 4 miles from the nearest gas station all hell broke loose on the dashboard with red lights flashing and messages saying I was critically low on oil and the vehicle lost power. I had checked the oil when I filled it, it was full. The POS finally shut down and I coasted off the road in the middle of the desert. Multiple calls to the "Enterprising" road side assistance were made, assuring me that tow trucks were on the way. 4 hours later I finally called an Uber and left that pile of garbage on the side of the road with the keys in it. That was 8:00 in the evening. A tow truck did not arrive at the vehicle until 10:00 am the next morning, despite how many times I had been told a tow truck was on the way. . In the end we were told by the rental company the Discovery had suffered an issue with the keys?! NEVER AGAIN! Avoid Land Rovers like the plague and NEVER trust a rental car company's roadside assistance.
I've had my 110 for 25 years, it is 36 years old. Since I have had it, it has only been towed twice. a dwell adjuster failed on one occasion and the fuel pump died on another. It is the most reliable car I have ever owned. Can't say the same for my wife's 2004 disco 2 (LR2 to you yanks).
@@yruhatin100 thank you for your comment. And just to make this clear. I'm not trying to bash the defender in anyway. That's just European cars in general! They tend to have problems.
Mine: - persistent low battery warning - back to LR three times and still not fixed; car with LR now - centre screen intermittently not coming on - software update - noise from around A pillar - door mirror not fitted properly - forward collision warning not working - back to LR twice and still not fixed - media USB cutting out - defective socket replaced - locking wheel nut adapter missing - new one (would have been totally screwed if I'd had a puncture - apparently they can't tell which of the 16 or so adapters fits a particular vehicle without physically trying them - cameras intermittently not working - car now with LR - squeeks from driver's door over even small road defects - door rubbing against its seal; silicone lubricant fixed it but surely the body should not flex so much so easily
@@JudokaEric not to mention the actual examples, when, in this piece of sh.t the brakes literally failed, when climbing up the hill and the guy was lucky to survive falling back..
You bought a crappy Land Rover what on earth did you expected from the most unreliable automaker??? Of course it brakes down all the time, didn’t you know anything about cara before getting this???
It’s a crappy Land Rover what on earth did you expected from the most unreliable automaker??? Of course it brakes down all the time, didn’t you know anything about cara before getting this???
@@codydiek7981 Yep, as opposed to the pillars of reliability that were the "british" LR3 and LR4, this new Defender certainly suffers from being made in Slovakia. Truth is, people really wanted LR to actually turn a corner with this new "Defovery" and, as LR does reliably, it did not. Same old garbage.
