Our experience with Air Source Heat Pumps 

Huge thumbs up a very sensible person. Something our other RU-vid videos keep forgetting to mention, you have mentioned the key facts payback. Yes everyone is so excited with solar, battery's and heat pumps and fail to accept untill your system pays you back the initial investment then and only then is it free or benefitting from that savings. Great video

Thank you for taking the time to create this video, it's going to be very helpful for many home owners. That is strange about the further away secondary return, getting hotter more quickly than the direct feed just next to the HW storage? It does make sense I suppose, as the pipes hold colder water for longer.

Insulation insulation insulation and air tightness etc Its the only way to reduce emissions overall. Then a heating/energy system to make the best use of the insulated area. Can't understand how the country is not rolling out insulation to most homes it has to be the way to reduce costs . Thanks for the overview.

A well balanced presentation. Apart from everything else, heat pump systems are only really suitable where you need the heating on all day. If you only need heat a few hours a day, or sometimes not at all, almost anything else is better.

I live in an old house, and I started insulating it, and my only regret is that I didn't do it years sooner. Last month I finished insulating my kitchen ceiling with foam boards, downstairs it was the only area that was not insulated yet.And I also filled up all the draft holes above the window with expanding foam, and now it doesn't just feel much more comfortable at the entire lower floor because the heat difference between the floor level and the ceiling is much less and the cold draft is gone, but I also saved a lot on my energy costs. I live in a rather small house, so I only needed 10 PIR boards and a few Styrofoam boards to get that wooden kitchen ceiling insulated. But thanks to the extremely warm October month (2022) and the insulation, and sadly because the extremely high energy prices, that month I managed to save 75% on my energy costs, so I earned back my investment in a single month. And so far this month November, at one third of the month, I am at 60% energy saving. I have to say that I also pay attention to my energy consumption by taking much shorter showers, I also use a blanket in the evening, and in the kitchen I only use cold water, I watched videos about how to tune, or properly set, a high efficiency heating system and the radiators, of which I wasn't aware until I saw the videos. And I use the heating system much less at much lower temperatures. And now I am used to have much lower temperatures inside the house, and I don't feel cold at all. Basically I avoid using gas as much as possible. Especially when you live in an old house it makes perfect sense to insulate the lower floor ceilings, because it feels much much more comfortable. It warms up much faster when you use the heating system, and it stays much longer warm. And over time you will earn the investment back. But the comfort that you get makes it all worth doing it. It truly is. If I light up 6 tealights it warms up 1 degrees C. Before the insulation was installed it would not have made any temperature difference at all.

Its a lovely presentation! You have excellent communication skills. It does show, however, how diametrically different views are on these things. Youll find videos even suggested after this one that absolutely advise against zoning!

Great vid, you kitchen hot water problem will be because they have taken the tap supply from the return pipe of your loop and the hot water is travelling the full length of the loop before getting to your tap, simply swap the feed over to the other pipe line to solve your problem.

In the UK the coal fired stations kept them running this Monday. These things may pay back initial investment but few people have any initial investment whatever to hand. Wood stoves are massively polluting and when there is an inversion layer in my village the air stinks of wood smoke. I hope this local wood is dried to less than 20% moisture content as required by law and does this require energy? It is difficult not to imagine the eco world is primarily affluent people with plenty of capital advising each other on the long term plans for heating the mansion. Between the fossil fuel world and the self sustaining world there is a very wide and long term cold chasm to bridge in the technology for most of us.

Really good video, honest real world view without an axe to grind.

Very well explained, looks like you choose the right installer, were you lucky, or very knowledgeable. Bob

Thanks for a very clear and balanced explanation. What size electrical power circuit do you have for each pump?

Thank you for your review of your Air Source Heat Pump system. Very informative and honest review of the system you have. Very well presented and lots of valid general points about making the house comfortable and efficient. e.g. zoning. Forward thinking in the planning of future developments regarding ducts for solar cabling. Wise advice on choosing a contractor!!

Do yo have a figure for the COP over a year? Also does the heat pump system control on the flow temperature to the house or the return water to the heat pumps? Well presented video. Hot water circulation: since the far outlets are on a common source with those in your kitchen then the time to get hot water can only be influenced by the length of “dead leg” to each outlet. It’s common to take circulation right up to outlets but those outlets in the Kitchen probably don’t have any circulation to them resulting in a longer time to draw off cold water in their dead legs.

Let me do the maths for you You are paying 34pence per Kw, and if in the unlikely event you are getting a COP figure of 1kw in to 3kw out, averaged out across a full season for heating and hot water, that's costing you 11.33pence per kw. If you had a Modern A-rated Condensing Oil Boiler @ 92% efficient you would get out 10.25kw of heat for every litre you burn, at today's price 29/11/22, @ 81pence per litre = 7.09pence per Kw Or at when we hit £1 per litre a while back = 9.7pence per kw but of course that doesn't take in to account that electricity is artificially low at the moment because of government intervention, it should be around 52p per kw. Lots of food for thought! Your best investment was in Insulation, although it's production process is heavily reliant on petrochemicals, it the best way to save on energy by far.

Friend tried one . Took it out and went back to gas central heating it was not as reliable and it cost too much in electricity . He has solar panels but it was still too pricey to run. We had Mitsubishi HS at work so running costs was not thought of much, however in the winter if it snowed heavy their efficiency was very poor when buried under frozen snow.

Great presentation. Very interesting. Why did you discount ground source heat pumps?

I find this an honest review really, what is not very clear for me is the positioning of external units, why there ? Why not closer to the house ?

This is very interesting. My experience with air conditioning is that the heat pumps need a lot of maintenance especially if you want or need to keep them quiet, the older they get the more this is true. I wonder if that will be the case with these heat pumps. Did you consider ground source heat pumps? that system works better in cold weather as if it is in a borehole or deep trench it is unaffected by weather, the temperature remains constant once you get to below about four feet or 1200mm.

the ground source heat pump looks like it was an option for you too. looks like a big yard.

Thank you for documenting your experience with your ASHP installation. One aspect you did not major on is the difference in comfort you have experienced. I should imagine that with ASHP and the underfloor heating your house is much better all round. I do lament at the avalanche of negative comments that you have suffered, although I expect it is all ‘water off a ducks back’. I do have a few comments though. 1. I am not sure why your installer chose to zone the property (using zone valves) as it considered best practice to have one open zone and control at the manifolds (in order to prevent short cycling). 2. On the solar front, I do not know if you have moved on (as this video was a year ago) but it is most unlikely you will be able to support ASHP(S) in winter (Min Solar production/Maximum heating demand) - although I have not seen the size of your field. It is semantics but it is best to look at solar production as an annual exercise that you net off your electrical bill from the supplier).

Well thank you for the information but I would suggest it is a very complicated system. The big problem that may arise is when a fault occurs in a few years time you will need a well informed engineer to sort out the problem, very expensive ! A good addition would have been 30 Navitron solar tubes to give you all the free hot water needed. Another observation is that you will need solar blinds on your south facing windows to stop you cooking during the summer months. Two Mega flow cylinders rather than the one with a zilmet pressure vessel (stainless steel ones should have been specified ). Otherwise a very nice system !

? Any idea on running costs against oil? What’s your electric bill like as these costs a fair amount to run.

Hello. So what's the running cost compared to oil? How much was your installation?

thanks for posting

Did you compare thermal ground source heat pumps with your air source heat pumps at the time of selecting the system?

It would help to know where in the country you are. I take it you are not in Scotland and from your accent you are probably in the South. So is the system only suitable in Southern England where, these days, it is quite warm?

And if you insulated the house and zoned the house the same and fitted a better oil boiler how would that stacked up against ashp in terms of cost. Insulating should be the first thing people do to their properties regardless of heating type.

I would have thought with the availability of so much land a ground source heat pump system would have been a better and a more efficient option.

During a storm, could falling trees damage the Heat pumps, will the house insurance cover replacement?

We have just put in a 3.7 system in with solar in the roof too. Insulation is our issue though, we have found big voids in our cavity insulation. Sigh!

So, including insulation, under floor heating, radiators etc. What was the total cost of installation, (materials & labour) ? Thanks

Why didn't you get a ground source heat pump?

I wonder how much more expensive a ground source heat pump would have been. The company I worked for installed a ground source borehole and a Vaillant heat pump and I have to say it was amazingly effective.

How many KWs of electricity does the house use each year and how many KWs are produced by pumps? My understanding of air source heat pumps it that for every 2KWs of output of the system, it requires an input of 1 KW of electricity. Most of us do not have an adjacent field for solar panels. Also the units can be noisy, imagine 150 x 2 units running in an urban area at the same time. At least “kettling” boilers are just a nuisance for the individual household rather than many neighbours. How much did the pumps cost?

If oil costs was about £4000/yr, what's the running costs of the air source heat pumps?

Which oil company or bank did you work for just out of interest ?

Nice house man 👍🏿pete the cabby Essex

10:45 Hello, I'm sure I'm missing something obvious but how is the DHW cylinder at 52 when the return temperature from the ASHPs is only 39?

How do you live with the noise and vibrations, especially at night ?

Thank you.

I love the fact people say that you need a REALLY well insulated property for ASHPs to work well. They then compare running costs to the system they replaced that was trying to heat a poorly insulated property - not really a fair comparison! Clearly, any heating system will work better and have lower running costs if the property is well insulated. Let’s be honest, you would have saved lots more money if you just chose to insulate your property properly and continue with your oil fired system!

Surely for such a huge, expensive house by UK standards, with major upgrades planned, you would've been far better putting in a much more efficient ground based HP in the large garden. Bet your posh neighbours are pleased with that big pair of ugly, industrial lumps right on the corner next to them in full view, whirring away night and day? Why not hidden right close up to your house?

Ground source would be a better bet in a property with the land. COP much better in low temperature conditions.

You won't be able to power your ashp completely from solar in Dec and January as there is just not enough hours of sunlite. I have 3.5 kW of solar and am putting in another 12 kW ground mount and 35kwh of battery but I still expect to have to buy electricity on about 90 days a year using the cheapest tariff I can find and I'm heating with gas.

Thanks for effort!

very informative review

He says he is basing his outlay costs against " todays oil price , which will probably go up " but as we know electricity has trebeled im the last 2 years , for me , from 17 p/ kwhr to 38p and we are told going to rise to 50 p/ kwhr ? Next april, so i cannot see how Heat source can possibly be viable ? The problem is as soon as you try to take advantage of a market by radical change that market will also change so you will end up no better off ... the market will always " find you " and screw you .

I've got a small garden nowhere to put one

Had one, will never have one again.

In the winter, photovoltaic systems may not provide much electricity, thermodynamics may, It is possible the Global warming may be come a global freeze in the event the Gulf Stream slows down or stops, good cellars in the house may provide a solution also in event of Nuclear Biological war, protection. Enjoy our beautiful Ocean Planet & the Festive Season.

Great video learnt a great deal but having an electrical circuit rated at 25A for a heat pump tells you immediately that you are going to use a lot of expensive electricity to heat a very small area

Unless you are rebuilding your house anyway, or your house has already been built or prepared for this type of heating, it will never be financially viable to install a system like this. Add a solar panel system and it just gets even worse. This is why a lot of home owners will never switch, and why oil and gas boilers will continue to heat the vast majority of homes in the UK for decades to come.

I watched all the vid and found it interesting. But it reinforces my belief heat pumps are only suitable if you have a large garden area as you have, rip out all or virtually all your old radiators and pipework as you have and, have the ability to build new extensions on your property so you can add additional insulation as you have. The vast majority of UK building stock are simply not suitable for heat pump installation and existing costs. The politicians are having a laugh forcing these things into existing homes. New builds, yes, I could possibly see them working and heating homes. Existing homes, nope, simply the cost is far too much for the vast majority while those that do, will find the cost benefit isnt worth it.

UV light for keeping the tanks germ free...

The installation is very expensive, an existing build will require larger radiators, copper pipes and they cannot be hidden. More electricity is required to run them and you still need a back-up source. NOT FOR ME.

I see air source heat pumps as just swapping one energy source for another ie oil to electricity -- not a great solution IMO he'd be better off with bulk propane, its what we have and our property is over 250sqM and we dont spend anything even close to what he quoted. Heat pumps need a well insulated property because they are not that good !

Looks very expensive to install and now electricity is double the price it was last year, how expensive is it now? Payback is important. Four years to recover the installation costs and 16-20 years for insulation doesn't add up. Oil cost £4,000 p.a. so did it really cost only £16.000?

heat pumps are as green as oil smells

You cant be that worried about heat or energy having all that open space and windows everywhere lol

I live in a tent year round and don't have any heating system at all its normal here in Saudi and I'm not allowed to drive a car because I'm a lady !!

I would have said 40 years Easy so it’s goodbye to all the outlay but if you have the money great pete the cabby essex

You have a plant room in your house, that could have been an office or gaming room. 😒

Why not LPG?

as with all builders i would beware of asking anyone what they suggest, especially with these new technologies, people are not trained, or if they are they lack experience or they have a narrow view and just do/sell/promote what their brief training course has taught them

the 500-pound gorilla in the room is the cost of maintenance and service of your air to water heat pumps. Everything gets dirty as it runs, and the efficiency will drop as it does. Why people don't mention this is puzzling to me. You seem to have covered all of the bases nicely with your preparation and I enjoyed your video, but what about that gorilla?

It's said the external unit should be next building.

It's incorrect to say you need insulation to run a heat pump. It's simply not true. I was at a wedding where a teepee was heated with a heat pump. 0 insulation. Just need to match your emitters to your heat loss. Does reducing your heat loss make your bills lower yes. Is that true for other heat sources yes. Is it especially true for heat pumps? A little bit. They do work better on an always on trickling in heat basis, but essentially you just need wider pipes and a bigger radiator and could still be efficient and cheaper than gas heating. It's myth.

It’s absurd to say that heat pumps require an insulated house, when gas, oil, wood, and coal do too! Ever spend time in an uninsulated 350 year old English manor house with fireplaces and leaded glass windows? You’re only warm near the fire or under the covers! The point of heat pumps is to harvest heat from the air instead of generating heat from fuel. It’s more efficient to get the same amount of heat from air or ground (by compressing special heat transfer fluid) than burning fuels. This depends on physics, but if electricity is very expensive, the results could indeed favor fuels. Any disadvantages of heat pumps in the UK are likely due to poor quality machinery.

Boy a lot of pipe work and I can see 4 tanks 2 small 2 big man alive to specialised for normal plumber so deep pockets for any problems just saying

You have plenty of money ,I wouldn't worry .

I think when this man decided to install 2 separate systems it would have been a much better choice to install a ground source heat pump plus an air source heat pump for mild weather over 15 C otherwise air source type heat pumps freeze and have to shut down half time to defrost or need to use the supplementary immersion resistance water heater which is by far the least efficient method to heat water. some units can reverse refergient flow direction to defrost. Another problem is the pumps are far too far from the building (too high of volume of water plus heat loss). I am very sorry to say IMHO this is a poorly designed system. The house is beautiful and I know this owner has install what he believed to be the best way forward environmentally speaking. I don't agree heat pumps are truly fully developed to the extent they need to be for the market and the industry will attract a lot of scam artist contractractors or just people of low understand of thermal dynamics especially if the government is subsidising heat pump technology, just like some solar panel installers that in many cases fit solar panels on both of houses where there is no south facing roof, or in shaded areas by even more shady installers that don't care for their customers but only to get grant aid and meet gov quotas. It's not looking good at all. BTW I'm not in anyway connected to any energy suppliers or biased in any way towards any particular heating system, I just love technology and doing things right, I think this is an overrated scam. Please don't waste your money except you live in spain and need a heat pump to heat your pool then it makes good sense.

Better off buying a diesel heater off aliexpress and run a vent in to your house, it cost pennies to run and any tom, dick and harry can install and maintain them. You can even use veggie oil, waste oil, red diesel in them, not that you should but you can and its cheap.

Good god. What an eye sore!

You must have an above average amount of money I bet you did not get much change out of thirty grand

Yeah…no thanks! Too expensive, too complex and too inefficient. 👎🏻

You could actually paint them green or forest camo.....they don't have to be that ugly grey.😀

Save the planet with a wood burner?

Fusion it’s FREE

All I see is a system that uses more fossil fuels... Rocket mass heaters would save you a fortune ...you'd be self sufficient with you own trees ....total waste of money ...but hey .... It's only money right ?

For the outlay and return it’s a big no from me just like electric cars no thanks

Dumb to put them so far from the load.