The gw box art is like the picture on a frozen dinner. No one is expecting the same result but a rough understanding of the content is still comforting
With the exception of that if you use the technics and paints that we want we can achieve a WAAAAAAAAY better result, but I agree that a beginner following the steps and using the paints needed for this result it may never obtain it, I'm sure there is almost always a little more, like a secret receipe.. the secret ingredient.. 😉👍
@@DicloniuS1291 nah, usually all the glazes and mixing of paints rather than using them as they come in the pot. usually some other paint not listed thrown in there
I'm just painting my very first mini at the sweet age of 66 years. I'll never be the painter you are because you do amazing work but hopefully I can get till it's not terrible. I'm trying and thanks for the videos to help me learn. Got a long way to go so..... 👍😀
As long as you’re happy with the job you did, that’s all that matters. Even if it’s not exactly how you wanted, you can always return and touch up the areas you are not content with. I would suggest doing another before returning to touch up the first, that way you have a little more experience painting. The biggest thing I’ve learned is to use wash/shade over base color paints, they really add the shading that a less experienced painter like myself cannot get to otherwise.
To Duncan's credit, when he was at GW he always made his guides achievable by the average person with a modest amount of practice. At a glance his results looked very similar to box art because he was using a variation of the recipes combined with some clever tricks to approximate the tonal range of the master class paint schemes. If you looked closer though, you could see he generally didn't use techniques that were much like the 'Eavy Metal painters. Or even the bulk army painters. That said, it's really interesting to see the technique of glazes and washes being moved to near the end of the process, spreading quickly. It's a distinct trend. I think the Artis Opus guys helped push too. (They tend to use glazes to bring together dry brushing at the end.) I suspect a reason it's taken a while for people to discover this is due to the general way GW demonstrated the use of washes for so many years. A wash over a big, flat shaded section of color tends to leave an inconsistent and dirty patina over broad surfaces where you don't want it. The GW (and Duncan Rhodes) method for dealing with this was to layer paint back over the flat areas to clean up the undesired dirtiness. But a glaze, or even a heavy wash, over a shaded area blends in way better and doesn't look "dirty". If anything it just adds an extra layer of color texture that creates a sense of richness.
I've been watching tutorials on the Warhammer channel and I feel like the 2 other painters they have also do a good job at making their tutorials accessible. It seems like they do for just the textbook recipe which kind of sucks but they still make it simple.
i learned fast, that i apply the shades and glazes near the end of a modell, since its easyer to fix mistakes bevore that step.. but i learnd that the hard way back in 4th edition
@@aesh78 It's not even something actually worthy of criticism. This is standard practice in any industry and GW deserves shit for a myriad of their other business practices. Just look at mcdonalds and how the depiction of melted cheese in an advertisement is just glue.
Just thought I’d mention for people who aren’t aware. The colours on the back of the boxes are actually created by the Warhammer ‘Army Painter’ team, rather than the ‘Eavy Metal’ team who are the ones who actually painted the box art miniatures. The Army Painter team’s job is to paint massive swathes of miniatures, often to fill backgrounds of photography or dioramas in Warhammer World. This means they’re painted to a somewhat lower quality than the box art. They will often take Eavy Metal recipes and simplify them in a way so 1) They can finish their own armies quicker, and 2) so achieving the box art aesthetic appears achievable to the end consumer. This is why the box art seems inauthentic sometimes. P.S - If you search their recipe for making Poxwalkers you’ll find a pretty good scheme for pinkish nurglings 😉
Or, here's a concept... Why the hell not have BOTH? Have a basic scheme, and the professional one. I guess that saves them having to print an extra piece of paper.
Also, if that's the case, then not only is this video one hundred percent on point (which, obviously it is) and the box is a lie, but why would they have some sort of coordination between these departments? Are they on different sides of the Imperium with no Astropaths to projrct their messages for them? Seriously. The hell.
@@dallan7736 the departments do coordinate, the Army Painter team consults the Eavy Metal team for their recipes and then deliberately simplifies them down. This is because each ‘character’ sized model (so anything on a 32mm base or 40mm base that’s human sized) takes the Eavy Metal team around 5 days to complete (or in the case of rank and file Primaris Space Marines, they’re expected to complete two in five days as they’re extremely used to panting space marines.) This length of time wouldn’t be practical for the Army Painter team, so they simplify it down and then list that colour scheme on the box art. Often, the alternate colour schemes on the back of the box are painted by the Army Painter team. At the end of the day it’s just their way of trying to make the hobby appear more approachable to new people. If you want the proper recipes, you can look online on the Eavy Metal Team’S personal instagrams, they’re often happy to answer if they get the time.
@@Vin_Venture896 Not to mention that if you were to actually list all of the paints (and probably more applicably the mixtures) that the Eavy Metal team uses, there wouldn't be any room on the box for pictures of the actual miniatures. Going off of what you said though, I have a strong feeling that marketing is a huge part of it. If you were to list the entirety of the process, including glazing, blending, all 3-4 edge highlights and whatever else that the Heavy Metal team uses (or for example, the tutorials Darren Latham made on his channel) then I would reckon a lot of folks would be discouraged right off the bat from attempting it, or just from buying the models because they don't think they can live up to that standard. Whereas, if you just list 2-3 paints per section, more people might give it a try
Really like the last point - giving extra obstacles that prevent us from picking up the brush is not necessary. SImplification is king to get shit done, improvement comes with practice and experimentation. Love the video, love the result! 🙌
The eavy metal teams don't use washes, they use glazes for the shadows as well as the highlights. They also go very very bright on the highlgihts and very very dark on the shadows to accentuate the contrast. Even then, the image is altered in post to give even more contrast and saturation. The models themselves won't pop like that in reality (obviously they still look ridiculously good).
Can confirm from a trip to Warhammer World to look at all the box art minis, that although the paint jobs are a very high standard, a lot of the finished look is in the photography. For example in the real models you can see some transitions between glazes, where there might be a slightly more reflective finish in one of the layers - these are completely invisible in photographs .
Like I said in my post as well I would love to see a video made by someone who actually worked on there team maybe in the past . I’ve never came across a single video of anyone claiming to have been a Eavy metal team member past or present . I guess there a lot of liability involved I’m sure . Its uncanny how I’ve seen so many great painters try and duplicate there style and come so very very close but it’s never quite the same .I have to admit there is something unique to how there models look.
@@Wolfgar-jx5kl They all have Instagram accounts, it's useful to follow em. I've pmed em a few times for reciprs and methods and they've always been happy to oblige.
The problem is not the coulors this guy is just quite bad at painting. For excape he is using an air brush. Also he is not dry Brushing properly layering or highlighting correctly. The box art is only a pretty basic starting place and many people I know can paint far better than on the box covers, If you are using the paints listed then it required an amount of blending and mixing as you would normally take the base green and then mix white with it for highlight layers and water it down and mix black with it as an Ink. For example when it says - Paint silver for a gun or sword or chainmail what it means is paint it black first and then dry brush silver and then apply a water+ black paint wash to tone down the silver shine, do not do what this guy did and paint it green then go over that green in a heavy coat of silver. No wounder his modle looks terribe he badly needs some painting lessons.
@@alistairbolden6340 What are you even on? "No wounder his modle looks terribe he badly needs some painting lessons." SMH. I don't even know where to start.
@@DavyBrando Sorry but just to stress He sprayed the model green! and then attempted tp paint with block silver over it, and he somehow expected it to look the same as if it had been painted black and dry brushed silver.... He is just a very poor painter hopefully he gets some help improving.
@@alistairbolden6340 bro before you start how people suck, check your spelling cause that’s what sucks. Also if you’ve ever looked at the back of any games workshop box it tells you exactly what colors to use, hence the reason he’s using green. It would appear you haven’t ever painted a warhammer model. The guide that comes in the kit tells you what paints base , layer, and highlight with. I’ve built and painted 4 1000pt armies. Your a twit and I’m the queen of England if your worked for gw.
I feel one of the greatest hindrances for new players is that they ca't get close to the box art immediately. I have always told new players "The guys who do these paint miniatures for hundreds of hours a year for 5, 10, 20 years..you just started. Give it time." But, that GW kind of omits steps? Not gonna lie: that feels a bit like sabotaging the new players confidence in their painting.
Agreed, I think the way he films his videos allows a better idea of what he's doing than some of the other vids I've watched where people are attempting to teach it. Watching Jon's videos have given me a better look at wet blending and glazing than I have seen elsewhere.
Gotta say, you are one of the few RU-vidrs, that actually give concrete advice. I mostly hear advice that is either vague or just for beginners. Keep up the good work, you're doing a great job!
I think there is a major problem with many Mini Painting RU-vidrs in that they assume knowledge. Anyone who goes over the basics of what they are doing, without talking down to the viewer, is very welcome.
love the video! for uncoordinated chimps like me with 5 thumbs on each hand the way ive found works best for me is to edge highlight with the extreme highlight straight on the washed basecoat first, that way i can put on the chunky edges badly. then i get my slighty darker highlight im supposed to glaze and i can tidy up my chunky edges with that, maybe feather them out a little in parts, and paint the large areas with that like a layer. THEN i glaze that out with the dark base coat to fade it out back down to the base colour. it means rather than the paint job getting finer and finer (and harder to get right) as you get up towards the highest highlight you start there instead, can make a mess and then tidy it up as you get less and less fine moving back down to the darkest tones. thats gonna be of no help to someone like ninjon but if ur struggling, failing and have given up trying to do what hes doing maybe worth a shot doing it in reverse.
Looks great! I certainly don't have time for 5-10 passes of glaze per area. I'm very content with 2-3 passes of midrange layer-glaze consistency and go from there. I have such a backlog that I'm very happy with what I'm pushing out and getting them all done.
Now you need to get Duncan on the phone and ask him : "Why have you been lying to us Duncan? Say it aint so Duncan...." Very very informative video. Thank you
Well, I just checked the box and it says "suggested scheme" also, if you see Duncan doesn't show the pic in the box. Anyway, I think as hobbists most of us know what you see in the box is a job done by professional artists with decades of experience who are being paid to achieve such quality, even youtubers actually warn people not to try to replicate what you get at the box, GW themselves coined the battleready term to save people from going mad from trying to paint their minis at 'eavy metal team level from day one, those pics are ideals to aspire, not for the "you must do it this way or you are wrong" mentality.
The Death Guard recipe presented by Duncan in his Mortarion Video actually works really well and uses slightly different colours than those on the box. And with a little extra polish and care (kinda like John does in this video) it can be gotten as close to the box art as a hobbyist might hope to get. Probably because I have been using it extensively as a basis for my own Death Guard scheme, I think it is one of his best tutorials. So Duncan didn't lie. But the box does, at least a little bit.
I'm fine with them giving simple steps as long as they're honest, that it's simpler than what is done on the box art and is for beginners/fast painting. I feel they leave it a bit too vague.
This is why we use a Zenithal Highlighted under shading! Two thin coats with a highly translucent paint on that will be worlds better looking than almost any other mono color base/primer layer.(some exceptions many apply)
It's not just the painting skills, it's the professional photography and photoshop team that makes a huge difference, I have seen some of the box art miniatures I the flesh and they look quite different, I noticed the colours have been changed with filters, some of them even the blending and shadows have been smoothed with post processing. . Yeah its like buying a microwave meal, don't feel like you failed as you couldn't make it look like the picture on the box, they couldn't either 😅
I've never played warhammer but I love how you guys manage to cram so much detail into these tiny models, it's super impressive to me. I love seeing people get creative and talk about all the cool techniques used to really make their models come to life. Great stuff, excellent explanation, loved the video.
The box guides are usually just a rough approximation of the actual 'Eavy Metal scheme, and this is probably one of the more accurate ones, since it gets the main paints right. Going by the Warhammer Instagram, the actual armour recipe is: 1. Base Death Guard Green 2. Shade with 1:1 Athonian Camoshade/Lahmian Medium 3. Deep line shade with 1:1 Caliban Green and Rhinox Hide 4. Edge highlight Ogryn Camo 5. Highlight Krieg Khaki 6. Highlight 1:1 Krieg Khaki/White Scar 7. Highlight White Scar
Can confirm, was given this same recipe by a Eavy Metal painter on Twitter way back when Dark Imperium first came out. Except switch the Lahmian medium out for water and the ratio of the line shade was 2 parts Caliban, 1 part Rhinox. And they don't use White Scar they use either old White Skull or Vallejo White they just can't say that on official WH channels.
I’ve always thought that the Eavy Metal paint scheme for Death Guard to be too clean and bright... an issue I have with many of their paint schemes My personal method starts with Death World Forest, working my way to pure Death Guard Green with various mixes (3pt/1pt, 2pt/1pt, 50/50, 1pt/2pt, 1pt/3pt) then doing the same again from Death Guard Green to Nurgling Green After that wash with Agrax Earthshade to really dirty the colours and pick out the sharpest edges with Nurgling Green again For the trim I base in Leadbelcher, slap on some Typhus Corrosion to add texture before drybrushing with Ryza Rust and washing with Agrax to darken the orange
Anyone remember that scene in Falling Down where Douglas goes into the burger joint and the burger he gets is the flattest thing you've ever seen, yet he looks up at the pictures on the wall showing their burgers and they are the plumpest, juiciest, most appetising burgers ever. That's what this reminds me of.
@@Ninjon 10 hours?! Looks like you did it in 45 minutes in the video. Perhaps the biggest lie from the boxart is that it makes you think you can paint an army like that before you die of old age?
Boxart photo looks like it was post processed and has some crazy intense lights on it for HDR photos, the base has some big reflections on it in their photo.
I just started playing a few weeks back. I’m in it mostly for the painting, but I’ve discovered that people in this community are very genuine and nice. Thanks for the video you seem like a rad dude!
This was a really interesting take one the whole “replicate the box art”. I think it is also extremely helpful, and well executed. I hope you revisit this topic for some other WH40 k figures. I love your videos!
I realized this when I edge-highlighted my space wolves with Fenrisian Gray over Russ Gray -- They most certainly used Ulthuan Gray to edge-highlight the box art Space Wolves. You literally can't get enough contrast any other way imo
1:18 action figure customizer here. Lots (or maybe most) of us apply washes near the end. It is interesting to see mini painters do it well before that.
This is how I felt when I first started painting Rubric Marines. It looks like you only need 4 colors right? Wrong. You need 2 colors for the eyes, two different types of blue, two different types of yellow, gold, silver, green, two different shades, a color for your base, not to mention all the highlights if you decided to do them.
GW is completely DISHONEST at selling the PROFESSIONALLY painted mini to people(NOOBS) that think they can get anything close to the same results!!! and the paint they sell is CRAP! Most will never attain the talent to even come close to painting the mini's like that... not even close!
I literally called GW as a kid, asking about how to get the color that they always had Space Wolves colored. "Just use space wolf grey," Yeah but that is just really really dark, I mean that lighter blue they are getting. "let me check with our paint team.. (few minutes go by), yeah just use Space Wolves grey."
I remember someone who painted a lot of Alpha Legion (Horus Heresy and 40k) proving that the art on the store (Forgeworld specifically) was digitally altered and especially made to look more bright while also playing with contrast and saturation. This was after quite some time of trying to replicate that art, even getting paint recipes from the people who painted the model and visiting Warhammer World where those models were displayed. Sadly I can't remember who that RU-vidr was.
Beginning of the video: I'm going to follow the back of the box to show that GW are lying about the paints you can use. 3 minutes into video: I won't use GW paints for this. 4 minutes into video: I won't use the black they've said either What was the point of the video again?
Incredibly informative and excellently produced tutorial. The timing couldn’t have been anymore perfect as I’m feeling down that I can’t produce the same results for my stardrake as the box art. It’s almost like I’m setting myself up to fail trying to aim for that. Thanks for putting my mind at ease.
Do a Night Lords painting thing. Paint some Night Lords, show us how you did it. I would like to see.. the painting of Night Lords. I am very interested in this.. So please, paint some Night Lords (I just don't know how to paint them, and a lot of the current tutorials/showcases are either super-advanced or speed painting.)
Here is a secret GW won’t want you to know….😈….they digitally edit the box art, so what is photographed and what you see on the box art are more often then not improved versions. so if you can paint exactly like the box art, your painting at a higher skill level then the original painter 😉👍🏻
Some of them are just so blatantly wrong. I believe Abaddon's box says his cape is red but the picture is obviously a dirty brown and the warhammer video on painting him is brown too.
We had a con years ago and two guys from GW came over with some painted minis, talking early 90's level of detail. And they brought a few sets with the box art and the actual painted minis with them. I can tell you that back then the difference between what it looked on the box and seeing them in real life was a world of difference. It wasn't that crazy different from how I did mine at the time. They were quite aware that the figures would be photographed in controlled conditions with very strong lighting that would emphasize the contrast.
I see your model and I’m like wow that’s really nice.. then I see it compared to the box art, and it makes yours look like someone’s first paint job lol no offense.. it’s crazy
That plague marine looks awesome, but it seems a bit more saturated than the box art. I don't know if the 'eavy metal team actually use the paints listed.
Great video about the box art. I have not bought into AoS because I figure I could no way on God's green earth pull off the box art and EVERYONE would know it in a heartbeat. The video was great and I thinking about getting into AoS.
So wait, you wanted to match the box art by using the colors suggested to see if it matches.... but you don't use those colors to prove your point. Hmmmm
Oh, another thing. Nowadays 'eavy metal use almost exclusively citadel paints, but I suspect this wasn't always the case. Ten years ago I suspect the professional paint recipe would only be partly GW and a whole lot of other products - can't print that on the box.
Do you use a lit magnifying glass to aid in painting minute detail? Do you use a clear coat enamel spray or other protectant coatings in post work? What do you think about dry brushing or staining? thanks
Really appreciate the ending sentiments. I know COVID was what finally pushed me into the hobby after years of trepidation and a major reason why I was hesitant was knowing that I couldn't match the box art. That said, using them more as guidelines, I've found that I can paint models in a way that I like without breaking my sanity
I think you should have only used the paint they recommend. Feel like this video is not exactly as advertised. The theme is not lets make it better, it is hoe good will it look by using only this
Move the model, not the brush, is the single biggest thing that most people need to do! Brush orientation and a comfortable hold is imperative, and you can't reach all bits of any model without moving the model itself.
this video is really well explained and inspired me to try glazing technique. recently I hit really weird plateau where my minis look good enough and found myself resting on my laurels without motivation to try new techniques...
"Can we achieve the box art quality with just the colors in the box?" "I'll make a compromise here...oh, and one here...oh yes, and one more here..." So...no? 😂
Are people just now catching on that GW photoshops their model paint jobs in their publications? One of the old Eldar codexes has an eye shine that got misplaced. Random eye shine in the middle of nowhere that should be white... (Not saying they don't do a good job painting, mind. Just that photoshopping has been observed in the past.) On note to the video itself... Order of operations. Your metalics likely should have been one of the last colors to work on (as they are the most top part). For example, you could have painted the entire gun black first, then painted the metalics over the black, rather than painting the base black carefully around your metalics. As for the black mixing you did, should have based with the base black, then gone over it again with the other layer black to get the desired color. Washes and extreme highlights are also typically the very last coats of paint for models. It's extremely difficult to go back and touch up mistakes over a wash...
The recipe for the pink nurglings as far as I can tell would be the same they use for the flesh on their venom crawler and other demonengines. Rakarth flesh,Palad witch flesh, and carroburg crimson being the shade. Could use reikland flesh shade as well.
I learned painting the "old GW way" mostly starting with the darkest color layering up to the highest separating the darkest recesses between conecting objects. I talked to a lot of new painter who are struggling with the exact thing you pointed out in the video.
Its because of the introduction of shades. You no longer have to preserve the darkest spots on the model because the shades bring them back really easily.
@@JJovich completely agree and I am aware of the "why" they changed it. When shades where not really used like that or where not even introduced by GW in they're range you would have to paint really neatly in order to get got separations. With shades I often see people struggling as the not only gather in recesses but also affecting midtones around the recesses. This often leads to frustration due to patchy and uneven drying... Just what I encountered talking to new people starting to paint
After watching the latest episode of TUP, I started thinking about this video and how vital it is to new painters / beginners. I am struggling with the "painting like the box art" part of my journey and this helps SO MUCH in tempering my expectations and my growth as a painter. Overall, such an amazing video with so much value.
In my opinion, the box art is a great thing to give you inspiration and an idea what kind of colours you could use. And I appreciate the artistry! But it should be clear to people that this is high level painting with techniques that require years to master, and that GW makes them look even better, cause they're promotional.
interesting video, I used to play Warhammer and came up with fairly original paint jobs completely unlike those suggested by the box art so it's curious to see someone aim as close for that as possible
