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Pakistan and India | Common Origins, Divergent Trajectories. Why? 

Commonwealth Club World Affairs of California
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In a time of existential crisis, Pakistanis continue to believe that infusing the right "Islamic" spirit into the population will somehow see it through. Critics say that experience shows otherwise.
Pakistanis-both religiously orthodox and liberal-believe that the founder of Pakistan had a game plan for the state after it came into being in 1947. There was none.
Nationalist Hindus imagine India was populated in ancient times by a Hindu nation whereas nationalist Muslims tie Pakistan's origin with pre-existing Muslim identity and the first Muslim invader arriving on Indian soil. Historical evidence refutes both.
The author will discuss these and other myths that are widely held in Pakistan as well as in India.
Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy earned his Ph.D. in nuclear physics from MIT and is also a prominent anti-nuclear activist. His earlier book was Confronting the Bomb: Pakistani and Indian Scientists Speak Out. As an advocate for science and reason in Islam, his first book was Islam and Science: Religious Orthodoxy and the Battle for Rationality, which included a foreword by the physics Nobel Prize winner Abdus Salam.
As a science popularizer, Hoodbhoy received the UNESCO’s Kalinga Prize. Earlier he had received the Burton Award for Electronics and the Abdus Salam Prize for Mathematics. He is also a recipient of the Joseph A. Burton Award from the American Physical Society, is a sponsor of The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, and was included among the top 100 global thinkers by Foreign Policy magazine in 2011. Hoodbhoy’s newest project is The Black Hole, a community center in Islamabad for nurturing science, art, and culture. It houses an auditorium for speakers who would otherwise go unheard, a library, and a science lab for children.
MLF ORGANIZER
Faruq Ahmad
Outreach Partner: 1947 Archive.
Photos courtesy the speakers.
June 1, 2023
Speakers
Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy
Ph.D., Scientist; Public Intellectual in Pakistan; Author, Pakistan: Origins, Identity and Future
Faruq Ahmad
Entrepreneur; Investor; Advisor; Founding Partner, Palo Alto Capital Advisors

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12 июн 2023

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Комментарии : 74   
@vasukinagabhushan
@vasukinagabhushan Год назад
Prof. Hoodbhoy is a highly over rated, but rather shallow political analyst. He should stick to science education, instead of lying about social and political affairs of India.
@manoopkirti8346
@manoopkirti8346 8 месяцев назад
So what you think about his comments changing history and preodic table? What makes you uncomfortable he is lying or he is telling the truth at world stage.
@Deadpool-su2po
@Deadpool-su2po 7 месяцев назад
The reality is that the elimination of evolution from the textbooks is a tragedy. But history was already a quite contested subject which needed to make space for regional leaders. Periodic table was an excess in chemistry as we were already burdened with organic chem and inorganic chem which would often cover most topics relating to the periodic table anyway.
@shilpa3032
@shilpa3032 6 месяцев назад
Periodic table is still there, the change is to increase thinking and enable students to learn elements rather than rote learning
@livingmusic4096
@livingmusic4096 Год назад
How many Indian scholars discuss Pakistan unless specifically asked? With high degree of Specialisation in India a scholar would talk on his subject and rarely on other subjects. Obsession of Pakistanis with anything Indian should stop.
@indiapakistanfriends7453
@indiapakistanfriends7453 Год назад
India had enough of hate and victim play cards of Pakistan. India should squeeze Pakistan on all fronts with help from Afghans and weaken it.
@swapnilrb7370
@swapnilrb7370 11 месяцев назад
It will never stop. It's their bread n butter. Listen carefully from 34:45 to 35:25 He creates 3 types of illusions in audience's mind by asking that question- 1) whether India is reliable geopolitical partner for US 2) Why should US not disengage from Pakistan and keep pampering it without anything constructive in return (fear mongering about nukes, 250 million radicals, etc) 3) Why US should not deepen engagement with so-called fundamentalist present India Exactly the same mindset that mullahs propagate, but just these ppl are in coats putting on fancy cologne When you're incompetent n not progressing, pulling down the legs of the one who's progressing is the only way to stay in contest
@manoopkirti8346
@manoopkirti8346 8 месяцев назад
So what you think about his comments changing history and preodic table? What makes you uncomfortable he is lying or he is telling the truth at world stage.
@livingmusic4096
@livingmusic4096 8 месяцев назад
@@manoopkirti8346 I am uncomfortable in listening to opinions based on hearsay.
@umakanthreddymallu1197
@umakanthreddymallu1197 7 месяцев назад
@@manoopkirti8346 First of all periodic table has included less in 10th grade and increased more in 11th grade to reduce the burden on students. I don't know where he got the information you can still check with the National Council of Educational Research and Training (NCERT) of India. Pakistan don't have to worry about the Indian education system. Yes, we have issue that we have more theoretical knowledge and govt haves to invest more to have practical knowledge in school curriculum. and secondly coming changes in history NCERT didn't change any history. they have included more about india freedom fighters and more about the current situation of country which resulted to reduce syllabus on outside invaders ruling. Social syallbus is bit different from state to state in india to include state-local leaders and state geographies like rivers and hills and the stiuation of current state.
@indiapakistanfriends7453
@indiapakistanfriends7453 Год назад
India is Hindus' Ancient Motherland. This Fact should be Understood by All.
@dineshchandel350
@dineshchandel350 Год назад
Dr Parvez Hoodbhoy is very very angry, I can understand that. But he is angry with Pakistan is understandable and with India he is ignorant and more of jealous. It shows in about the statements about India. He has to learn more about India before making them. In his inner thoughts he knows the achievements made by India and is making and hence very very angry.
@indiapakistanfriends7453
@indiapakistanfriends7453 Год назад
Sanatana Hindu Dharma with open free thinking and multiple methods cannot be compared with the two major one book religions of the middle east.
@laddu95
@laddu95 Год назад
Dr Hoodbhoy I have admired your discourses and views. I will like to point out that comments about Indian eduction are not factual 1. Evolution (Darwin's theory and Big bang) is still apart of class 12 curriculum 2. Periodic table is still part of 10th standard science curriculum of class 10 and 11 I am sure this is more of an ill-informed reaction rather than a disinformed one. regards Ashish Singh
@natramesh51
@natramesh51 Год назад
Pervez Hoodbhoy should stick to his knitting not venture into the history of partition which is not his forte’. He is putting his own spin to support his narrative, like all authors who venture beyond their area of expertise! He should have consulted historians of repute like Dr Ishtaq Ahmed of Pakistani Origin, who is much better informed than this gentleman who is a renowned physicist nothing more. Dr Hoodbhoy’s anger is clearly evident in this distorted view of history.
@TheGrimStoic
@TheGrimStoic Год назад
@@chokkalingamsivamd6947 He's neither angry nor a faker - his India-haterd is based upon his tutelage under Eqbal Ahmed - a Stalinist from Bihar tried in USA for conspiracy to abduct US NSA Henry Kissinger. Long story short - Hoodbhoy is Pakistan's wannabe Charu Majumdar or Kanu Sanyal, minus guts, minus the stomach for action.
@whomraja1704
@whomraja1704 8 месяцев назад
All this fake history is to justify conversion to Islam. Otherwise you could be questioned what was the purpose of conversion when you have such a rich culture and religion. Pervez is after all a Pakistani Muslim first , real history is last on his agenda
@Ramineni1
@Ramineni1 Год назад
Two reasons for gap which Mr Hoodbhoy omitted, is low rate of literacy rate in Muslim women and retaliation for questioning religious dogma . Both are cultural characters adopted by the Pakistani nation
@vibhuvikramaditya4576
@vibhuvikramaditya4576 Год назад
This was an improvement over the past, but it still remains intellectually dishonest, There is not a single paper that states that Sanskrit came from the middle east, i.e. Mesopotamia. All of the authors who claimed that Sanskrit came from outside, claim that it came from the Volga steppes, the original indo european homeland in their, same for the horses. Forget domestication, The middle east didn't even see horses until the Indo Aryans brought it with them via the Hittite empire in the Mithani kingdom which had an Indo Aryan elite. With regard to the Dna evidence, The R1A1A AND R1A1B which both you and I have despite being from different religions and different regions is also present even within the most tribal people in India, and a significant amount of research which although remains contentious and is not broadly accepted by all has concluded that it may have originated in the Indian subcontinent. Please cite papers who say Sanksrit and Horses came from middle east, which had a completely different Semitic language instead of indo-European one
@indiapakistanfriends7453
@indiapakistanfriends7453 Год назад
India had enough of victim play cards of Pakistan. India should squeeze Pakistan on all fronts with help from Afghans.
@74rajindian
@74rajindian Год назад
Very sad to hear that Dr is talking about the wrong Indian civilization history...
@asifsiddiqui832
@asifsiddiqui832 Год назад
Comments seem to magically disappear from this forum...
@Ramineni1
@Ramineni1 Год назад
There is no interest in reunification among elites and educated in India . They are concerned that it will add more to problems of India with addition of huge Muslim population . Pakistan is overspending to maintain huge army when India is not interesting in incorporating Pakistan . India did not incorporate Bangladesh after 1971 war.
@anwiycti1585
@anwiycti1585 Год назад
46:46 How about Swami Vivekananda’s influence to the US and world religions? Won’t call it hindu fundamentalism, will you?
@rj6404
@rj6404 Год назад
There is an intense contempt , disdain in the dna & however educated one is, its hard to accept the truth , in 1968 buhtto proclaimed the muslums in India are finished , they r being eliminated , today it is the same , nothing has changed , nothing ever will .
@indiapakistanfriends7453
@indiapakistanfriends7453 Год назад
DNA Doesn't Determine Capabilities. Questioning Mind Opens Up Knowledge & Wisdom.
@rakadus
@rakadus 8 месяцев назад
That the trends are divergent has been confirmed after listening to the Professor.
@subramayamrvr8774
@subramayamrvr8774 Год назад
Can sanskrit be the national language of Iraq and Mesopotamia instead of Arabic.
@subramayamrvr8774
@subramayamrvr8774 Год назад
If sanskrit has come from Iraq
@parjanyashukla176
@parjanyashukla176 8 месяцев назад
​@@subramayamrvr8774 There's a greater likelihood of Iraq becoming the national language of Sanskrit.
@sanjaychandna9209
@sanjaychandna9209 Год назад
Why do these people speak about India without thoroughly studying it .
@dsvikas
@dsvikas 8 месяцев назад
29:14 Mr. Hoodbhoy instead of hatching certain theories like these should come to India to see the textbooks or he should talk to his Indian origin friends in USA to know the status of curriculum. He is absolutly misinformed here. Not expected of him to pass such ill informed statements.
@dhanrajsingh9264
@dhanrajsingh9264 11 месяцев назад
There is difference between invasion and migration. Movement of humans from Africa was migration.
@vasukinagabhushan
@vasukinagabhushan Год назад
I challenge Dr. Hoodbhoy or anyone to show any Indian texts which mention that they came from any place other than India.
@swapnilrb7370
@swapnilrb7370 11 месяцев назад
29:25 Lie, half truth Mendeliff's periodic table will not be taught in 10th grade, it will be taught in 11th or 12th grade
@user-lx6fi9uc2g
@user-lx6fi9uc2g 7 месяцев назад
Hoodboy is Hoodwinkboy! :)
@bis_j3822
@bis_j3822 8 месяцев назад
Dr had immense misinformation about India, he was stuck in Neheruvian era, Today India is much more modern, scientific focus and government direction is forward looking. He needs to fact check before commenting on India.
@manoopkirti8346
@manoopkirti8346 8 месяцев назад
After listening about bjp changing history and preodic table in indian education system? What makes Indians uncomfortable he is lying or he is telling the truth at world stage.
@whomraja1704
@whomraja1704 8 месяцев назад
Hoodbhoy is perhaps reading left propaganda in INDIA and forming his opinion. It’s like INDIANS reading orya maqbool jan or Zahid Hamid and forming opinions about Pakistan. Pervez fact check would make your views of INDIA more relevant. By the way periodic table is taught in 11th standard. So much for speaking truth 😂
@ashokleburu7335
@ashokleburu7335 7 месяцев назад
He got in to trouble when he said "normal women"
@suppiahmurugesan8343
@suppiahmurugesan8343 Год назад
With due respect, Sanskrit, also known as Samaskritham, did not come from Mesopotamia or Babylon. Sanskrit and Tamil from the south of the Indian subcontinent are local ancient languages. In fact the theory of Aryan invasion has been debunked scientifically. So please stop fooling us on such specific well researched matters.
@indranidasgupta8982
@indranidasgupta8982 7 месяцев назад
He’s a professor of physics. What makes him qualified to address these issues? Also, “their common origins?” 😂
@Braveheart1502
@Braveheart1502 7 месяцев назад
What authority he has to comment about India. Nothing has changed in our curriculum or did we give emphasis on religious teachings.
@indiapakistanfriends7453
@indiapakistanfriends7453 Год назад
DNA Doesn't Determine Capabilities. Questioning Mindset Does.
@unknownindian6531
@unknownindian6531 10 месяцев назад
Dr Hoodbhoys ignorance about Hindus and India is very apparent
@user-mh9wb7sm6j
@user-mh9wb7sm6j 2 месяца назад
Common origin but different thought process, like two siblings
@unknownindian6531
@unknownindian6531 10 месяцев назад
DH has unfortunately a prejudice against Hindus and Indians
@pschhu
@pschhu 7 месяцев назад
Why pakistani are worried about India. We Indians are live with harmony. Please take care of your country. Do not compare pakistan with India.
@ponskhemarathe4438
@ponskhemarathe4438 Год назад
Wha about the explosive population growth in Pakistan? This is one reason for the poverty. They should take steps to control population growth which will then help bring prosperity (of course with other economic reforms)
@parjanyashukla176
@parjanyashukla176 8 месяцев назад
What's this obsession with science? India is already doing fairly well on that front, I don't think all issues on the planet are related to science. In fact in most cases, philosophy and culture (like the arts, music) are usually more important than science.
@whomraja1704
@whomraja1704 8 месяцев назад
Do you think that had Pakistanis remained Hindus they would have been educated and prosperous
@krishantewari2376
@krishantewari2376 8 месяцев назад
Prof is ill informed about Indian education curriculum. He needs more education on this.
@ponskhemarathe4438
@ponskhemarathe4438 Год назад
Very ignorant about India and making false statements to support Pakistani narrative
@BRKA148
@BRKA148 8 месяцев назад
Only Discussion and Debates about Pakistan are happening but no progress or improvements happening. No body can save Pakistan
@suppiahmurugesan8343
@suppiahmurugesan8343 Год назад
Bharatiyas are not silly to propagate Hindu nationalism, like what the military Pakistani dictator Zul Haq did. Sanatana Dharma allows all religions to flourish in Bharat. That is why the Mohammedans in Bharat will never ever even dream of living in Pakistan. They are, by and large, satisfied nationals of Bharat. There are of course fringe elements who will cause mischief here and there. Hinduism is not a religion. It's a way of life...a common custom, cultural thread, of every Bharatiyas, be it a Muslim, Sanatana, Christian, Sikh, Jain, Jew, Buddhist or Parsi. The modern term Hindutva promotes this nationalism in the subcontinent. Vasudeva Kudumbakkam. The world is a global village. Unity in diversity. That is why Bharat will flourish and become Visva Guru of the world.
@shazamshazamshazam696
@shazamshazamshazam696 Год назад
If you look around the world you will see that in nations controlled by a religion there is much suffering and they are always strictly hierarchical societies with great masses of suffering, abused and exploited poor with no individual rights and no path from their bottomless existence.
@indiapakistanfriends7453
@indiapakistanfriends7453 Год назад
Sanatana Hindu Dharma with open free thinking and multiple methods cannot be compared with the two major one book religions of the middle east.
@shazamshazamshazam696
@shazamshazamshazam696 Год назад
@@indiapakistanfriends7453 Is the caste system hierarchical, is caste system Hindu?
@aminaabdulla5854
@aminaabdulla5854 Год назад
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@user-iw7fe2yo8j
@user-iw7fe2yo8j 10 месяцев назад
Sir , you are entirely wrong about teaching the periodic table India . Absolute Ignorance . As for Mughals In India you need to revisit just Aurangzeb . You need to update yourself sir !
@user-iw7fe2yo8j
@user-iw7fe2yo8j 10 месяцев назад
Sir , you are entirely wrong about teaching the periodic table India . Absolute Ignorance . As for Mughals In India you need to revisit just Aurangzeb . You need to update yourself sir !
@indranidasgupta8982
@indranidasgupta8982 7 месяцев назад
Stop calling people “sir.”
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