Listened to the entire transmission & it occurred to me how professional & POLITE the multiple interactions between pilots & ground coms were! Also, remembering how often that’s true! I guess after listening to House & Senate hearings, plus #45 over the past week, no wonder I’m surprised! TY for showing how professionals do it!
Pilot: "PAN-PAN PAN-PAN PAN-PAN" Ground: "Are you declaring an emergency?" ... Well.. that is... what he just did. By using an INTERNATIONAL standardized phrase for emergency. A phrase that even FAA in the US have in their rules book, that US controller should follow! Sometimes, i just... no... **big sigh**
@@lebojay Both fall into the emergency umbrella. To keep it short: Mayday: Lifethreatening. PAN-PAN: Not (yet) lifethreatening Example: One engine out on a multi engine airplane is PAN-PAN. Fire in an engine is Mayday. Fire goes out? Then can be lowered to PAN-PAN if everything seems okay, now just an engine that is out. Who decides? Staff in the air. Or on the ground. Pilot could say PAN-PAN and ground can treat it as Mayday. As an example. Also used at sea. In The same manner. Engine out? PAN-PAN. Drifting towards cliffs? Mayday. From FAA: The initial communication, and if considered necessary, any subsequent transmissions by an aircraft in distress should begin with the signal MAYDAY, preferably repeated three times. The signal PAN-PAN should be used in the same manner for an urgency condition.
This bothers me with ATC Comm....he already said he wanted a specific runway...then ATC calling up many times to ask for other runways....he already responded and said what he wanted....leave them alone!!!!!!!
If they were running the checklist and not immediately diverting then the fumes event must have been over or identified and contained and they’re just going through the motions of tying up lose ends. If there was an active smoke/fire/fumes event then it would have turned out rather differently in the way they interacted with ATC and the speed of the return.
I dont understand Why the tower did not let them the info , that the ILS is not radiating and that it's going to be visual on 31L in the time before they decited to land on it...
Hard to tell if they were on oxygen at all times during the fumes event. Obvious at least one pilot on the mask. Would like to know if it was identified as a "dirty sock" smell/odor. If so, that is oil contamination of the bleed air supply. Any other sources for this event?
The controllers are busy, but they have to pay special attention to an aircraft in a pan -pan...OR emergency I think sometimes they might get a bit over zelest ...yes the B.A pilots are the best in the world at communications, I live their call sign" SPEEDBIRD"..CLASSIC.....all Britain needs now is a new concorde...so us Britain can be proud of what we have done and achieved with the French.. the Concorde...unfortunately when I were younger I saved as much money as I could..the air fare was back then 10,000 quid...was a he'll of alot of money..but instead I bought my house....
Just can't stand the extended conversations from US controllers when pilots are clearly working on issues. Leave them alone to sort it out for goodness sake. They'll call you when ready.
The timing of ATC saying to commence dumping (3:58) & getting that read back, ATC warning everyone of dumping (4:35), and Speedbird saying dumping commenced (6:13) didn't seem right... did they mean dumping complete that time? No, because 7:33 they told Boston Center they'd let them know when dumping complete & a different pilot said it was complete now at 7:54. The ATC warning to everyone covered that wide of an area?
After the pilot declared “pan pan” he also stated “nonimmeadate need to go back”. Typically if you have an emergency you want to land quickly. I can understand how ATC was a bit confused.
Well you want to, but you also need to cut weight to avoid runway braking catastrophe with a trans-Atlantic level of fuel on board, so ATC shouldn't be confused.
@@JimmyDoresHairDye The "no immediate need to return" was more to clarify to atc what kind of emergency it was. Would he have not said it, and as confused as atc was about whether he declared an emergency (which he def should not have been), he would have probably been treated like a mayday with need to directly go in - since it was a fumes incident, and you don't joke around with that.
Since the video is sped up and considering atc said northwest-bound, it is quite likely that the plane had already turned towards kennedy before atc informed other traffic. Also, the first transmission was atc allowing BA to dump, thereafter they were basically considered to be dumping by the controller. Kind off like a "descent to reach point at FL" would block off a reasonable amount of space below the plane, to consider it descending sooner or later.
All I can find: Pilots of British Airways flights have reported smelling an “organic cheesy, oily” odour with a metallic taste on the flight deck shortly after take-off that got worse above 2000ft on 5 separate flights. The aircraft returned to service about 23 hours after landing back at JFK, performing the next day's flight BA-176 but the source hasn't been found.
US controllers not knowing what a pan-pan is. It isn’t an emergency but can be upgraded to one. It means they have a problem but the plane’s ability to be controlled isn’t affected.
ATC forgot to ask whether the pilots are robots or human, and a skill-testing question of appropriate complexity. Honestly, stop interrupting busy pilots.
Pilots have a similar experience after Taco Tuesday: Pilot 1: ”We have a fumes event!” Pilot 2: "My bad! Declaring a bathroom emergency. I'll be right back... Commence dumping!!!"
Emergency aircraft requests ILS 22, next controller “I have all your information, oh by the way how about 31” then it’s not the 31 they asked for, then they can’t have ILS, just the visual… not sure why they bothered with the PAN PAN - oh, sorry to all the types elsewhere in comments who can’t abide standard terms - bothered with ‘declaring an emergency’
The checklist says to land at nearest suitable airport, so that’s what you do. Absolute worst case scenario is to ditch. However, the pilots don’t declare an emergency immediately and say that they’ve had a fumes event, so it suggests the event is over. They’re just returning to JFK as a precaution. If this happened mid-ocean then they’d likely just continue to LHR.
