Part 2: Debunking Rough Stone Rolling's Treasure Digging Sources with REAL Data | Vidcast

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Was Joseph Smith a treasure digger? Did he dabble in magical and occultic practices? In Rough Stone Rolling, Richard Bushman advocated a new progressive interpretation of Joseph Smith, depicting him as being involved in ritual magic and using peep stones to find treasure. What if we fact-checked Bushman's sources against verifiable and quantifiable data?
For sources and additional information referenced, see Faith Crisis 2: Behind Closed Doors. Read the first two chapters for FREE! josephsmithfoundation.org/fai...
In this vidcast, L. Hannah Stoddard presents careful research and analysis of the available historical data published by Donald L. Enders with the intent of fact-checking Mormonism Unvailed and other slanderous reports, circulated early on against Joseph Smith and his family. Enders realized that by evaluating the scientific data, he could likely either authenticate, or disprove, their accounts. In this trailblazing research, he examined “[l]and and tax records, farm account books and correspondence, soil surveys, and interviews with archeological reports, historic building surveys and interviews with agricultural historians and specialists of early nine-teenth-century New York.”
The long-awaited results of Enders’ research would have a decisive impact on the truth claims surrounding Joseph Smith and the Church. If the testable claims in Mormonism Unvailed were proven fraudulent, it would serve as a decisive blow to the progressive, New Mormon narrative.

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2 май 2021

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Комментарии : 137

@lorao.beagley6035 3 года назад

Wow, Thank you so much Hannah Stoddard for your dedication in not only bringing forth the TRUTH about our beloved Prophet Joseph Smith and his faithful family but striving to strengthen the faith of any who are in doubt of his character and prophetic mission🙏🏻

@dougbrinton2051 3 года назад

A great defense of the Prophet Joseph as two quotes run through my mind... "that my name should be had for good and evil among all ... it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people” and "nevertheless deep water is what I am wont to swim in." Modern day fulfillment of statements made 200 years ago. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your diligence and willingness to share and teach.

@sjbringh 3 года назад

Thank you for this, Hannah! The “money digger” image of Joseph Smith would make him a false prophet as defined by the Bible. I appreciate these videos.

@ImFundingDirect Год назад

This Was the argument that my daughter give me when she was leaving the church the Smiths were lazy and golddiggers. Thank you for your insight

@DavidNellTheHarbinger 3 года назад

So full disclosure, I came here to laugh at this........................and now I think you have some valid points, makes me second guess a large portion of Rough Stone Rolling,

@timothyspagnola6909 Год назад

Hannah doesn't make stuff up and she does in depth research. She's amazing!

@magapefarmshomestead6453 6 месяцев назад

It should cause you to doubt all of rough stone rolling

@johnnyonthespot1665 6 месяцев назад

Maybe ask God what the story is? The answer I got was unmistakeable ..

@vakama76 Год назад

Wow, great presentation. You keep fighting the good fight. There are so many watching and waiting for the next line that needs to be drawn. Thank you for your work

@kenton6804 Год назад

Hannah, you are truly a gift to the study of this history. It is marvelous to my eyes, and I wish all of us could come to this with the fire and light that you do.

@lauriebrown1166 3 года назад

Yet again, more excellent research Joseph Smith Foundation, thank you for your hard work, getting truth out there!

@livingtruth2374 Год назад

Amazing. Absolutely courageous. It is not whether or not someone is an academic historian, they still must meet us all on the plain basis of facts, logic, and reason. And the Prophet Joseph and his sacred life will always win.

@kimberlyolsen9416 3 года назад

Thank you Hannah and all of you at the Joseph Smith Foundation! Your research renews my faith! I love the Prophet and honor him and his legacy!

@GFSongbird 3 года назад

Thank you for this most excellent follow up to the first part presentation. You talk about the productiveness of Joseph Smith and his family on the farm, and I just can't help but compare the productiveness your family presents with all the work put in to produce these vidcasts. In my mind, it is amazing how comparable your family is in productivity with Joseph and Lucy Smith's family. It may appear on the surface that your work is just a review of things you have studied, but I imagine that many deep and thought provoking conversations and lots and lots of study took place long before you ever appear before a camera to present your ideas. Thank you for all your hard work, and once again, thank you for your example. Out of all I have seen so far in my recent discoveries of your vidcasts, interviews and website, the one thing that has attached itself to my mind and heart, is this thought: "How does my life and what I am doing bring glory to God and His Kingdom? How can I consecrate what I am doing today to the glory of God? Thank you for your inspiring presentations. They have provoked questions, and deep thought and changes in my life. All the best to you and your family, Elizabeth

@Greg-McIver 3 года назад

This needs to be trumpeted long and loud! Thank you for your excellent work.

@dcarts5616 3 года назад

Very well done! I get very excited when I see new posts from The Joseph Smith Foundation. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is true, it has held up, it is holding up, and will ALWAYS hold up to scrutiny because it is what we claim it is, God’s Church on Earth. Thank you so much for your dedication to sniffing out the stink in the lies and half truths being presented as fact from members and non members alike. BRAVO!

@kingsleyhorton Год назад

Thank you for this compelling and refreshing presentation. I can now confidently throw away about the only shelf question that I ever had. Very faith promoting! The revisionist history push never felt right to me. Your presentation was literally a deep breath of fresh air!

@TheAnzianoJones 24 дня назад

I love this approach. My parents joined the church in the late 70s and early 80s. Hannah’s approach to the church is how I was raised.

@rogerpreble440 Год назад

Thank you, Hanna… I hope that this is your life mission to bring sunshine on these various subjects… I am converts to the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints and consider myself a defender of the faith… I am the ward mission, leader, and I have to tell you that our missionaries are struggling to keep up with all of the incoming bombs of disinformation… Please keep going just subscribed today

@tryingtochange1958 3 года назад

Thank you for being champions for the Smith Family. Joseph Smith Jr. was truly raised up in a righteous family. The Lord prepared His prophet. I am so grateful to the Smith Family and Joseph. Oh my! We thank thee O God for a prophet, Joseph! Amen and amen!!!!

@rodandnathalie 2 года назад

Your point about six lying witnesses not making a new truth is the focus of Hugh Nibley's excellent book, The Myth Makers. He shows how the lies contradict each other, and couldn't possibly have all happened or it's all they would have been doing all day long, and you've shown here how ridiculous that is.

@delburroughs171 Год назад

IT is crazy because why would a money digger, Work and serve others and give his all and not shrink under persecutions and give his life. Praise to the MAN

@altonsharp4388 3 года назад

I fully would recommend this info to all my folks! Say Thanks to the Joseph Smith Foundation for all they do!

@csluau5913 Год назад

It sounds to me like the Smith family was a beacon upon a hill, shining light down into the valleys around them. That’s my first impression. My second impression is that the enemy despises truth and light and embrace his darkness. Therefore, he seeks to tear down anything that gives off light and plunge everything back into darkness at all costs. Truth is his enemy and time is no longer on his side. The last impression I got while watching is this… Just as in the beginning, it is in the end… The darkness saw the light and comprehend it not. People seek to destroy what they don’t understand especially if they are in the darkness. I think the JSF and the Stoddard family are also beacons.… I’m glad I watched this.

@KnuttyEntertainment Год назад

Imagine being Joseph Smith, a kid between the ages of 14 and 17, hated by his community, leveled with great expectations, unable to attend church during the 2nd great awakening, and on top of it all, working 9 hours a day pulling up tree stumps and digging the Erie Canal, and then after all that day in and day out, what does he do? He laments, and frets, and begs forgiveness for his greatest sin: goofing off too much. Joseph Smith History verse 28: “During the space of time which intervened between the time I had the vision and the year eighteen hundred and twenty-three-having been forbidden to join any of the religious sects of the day, and being of very tender years, and persecuted by those who ought to have been my friends and to have treated me kindly, and if they supposed me to be deluded to have endeavored in a proper and affectionate manner to have reclaimed me-I was left to all kinds of temptations; and, mingling with all kinds of society, I frequently fell into many foolish errors, and displayed the weakness of youth, and the foibles of human nature; which, I am sorry to say, led me into divers temptations, offensive in the sight of God. In making this confession, no one need suppose me guilty of any great or malignant sins. A disposition to commit such was never in my nature. But I was guilty of levity, and sometimes associated with jovial company, etc., not consistent with that character which ought to be maintained by one who was called of God as I had been. But this will not seem very strange to any one who recollects my youth, and is acquainted with my native cheery temperament.”

@mrskjavier Год назад

I wish I had known all this before I was called to serve at the joseph Smith farm 25 years ago! We memorized scripts in the MTC, and by the time we arrived in Palmyra, we were told, "Sorry, that's not all true, we're getting new scripts." Bro. Enders and others taught us a lot, but funny RL Bushman's book was one of our recommended readings back then! 🤣 Still, you've just taught me more than we learned back then. Love it!

@jameseverett4976 2 месяца назад

Wow it sounds like someone really dropped the ball. Who is in charge of the scripts they learn? I guess the apostle can't do everything themselves, but gee whiz, they could at least call someone with an once of common sense and knowledge of history.

@gd8205 2 года назад

No mention of the Gospel Topic Essays, found on the church website and approved by the first presidency, which confirmed JS was involved in treasure hunting, seer stones, etc? Very confused.

@tribulusterrestris27 Год назад

I am dumbfounded that in the essays they would use one of Arrington's progressive historians, McGee. There are no credible witnesses of a peep stone producing English text for Joseph. This just goes to show how far the false narrative has penetrated the minds of our members. There is no need to be confused. The explanation is that they got it wrong. Not even the prophet is infallible.

@rickyde0255 Год назад

Thank you for your work. I don't understand what appears to be a wave of individuals having a faith crisis. If the Church is true, it is, then all of these issues will work out. I think President Nelson was wrong to sign the letter claiming the "vaccine" was safe and effective. That doesn't bother me. Prophets are not perfect. They can have wrong opinions. Eternity is the wrong thing to be wrong about.

@barbarafarnsworth4800 6 месяцев назад

Thank you, Hannah, for having the courage to stand up and speak out for what you know is true. You are smart and you have done your homework. Thank you for being steadfast and immovable. God's truth is the same yesterday, today, and forever. No progressive movement, no matter how aggressive, will ever change the truth, no matter how hard it tries. Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, as was President Benson and all of the prophets in this dispensation and the dispensations of the past. Jesus Christ is the Son of God and His gospel is true and the Book of Mormon is true. I testify of it.

@TheYgds Год назад

Was Richard Bushman's efforts so misdirected? By all accounts I can find, he is a faithful saint, and doesn't seem to have any firm motivation to give priority to accounts that were accusatory and malign. Was it due to limited resources in his time? Or was it intentional? What are the counters to Hannah's evidence, as she seems to have compellingly debunked many of these claims that have made it into the Gospel Topics essays.

@ginnymart5124 5 месяцев назад

I am a descent of the Durfee family and that is one story that I have not heard. Thank you.

@artgivinghope 4 месяца назад

Excellent work. Never bet against Joseph Smith.

@dalecash2236 Год назад

The maple sugar operation the Smiths had alone proves they were very hard workers.

@halodisciple8459 Год назад

Good point. A prerequisite of a true prophet is that the hatred and opposition would be fierce. Joseph checks all the boxes of being a true prophet and chosen by God.

@delburroughs171 Год назад

People are following the Devil to try and discredited Joseph Smith They will always be with us. I feel sorry for those who are lost and decieved

@davidjames7323 8 месяцев назад

I just want to give you a hug Hannah! Please keep up the awesome work!

@michaelservetus5340 5 месяцев назад

The affidavits are also shown to be incredibly ridiculous when you examine the life of Joseph both before and after leaving Palmyra. Just by adding up all the things we know as fact that Joseph accomplished, including initially establishing and more fully establishing the church, all of the administrative duties Joseph would have needed to fulfill, the building of cities, the building of temples, the production of scripture (including but not limited to the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith Translation, his writings now compiled in the Doctrine & Covenants including the Word of Wisdom), establishing the United Order, traveling to other states for missionary work, leading military drills, marching with Zion's Camp, the School of the Prophets, seeking redress from Congress and Martin Van Buren in Washington, being held in jails many different times based upon false charges (including the four and a half months in Liberty Jail), and everything else he accomplished all before the time he was murdered at the young age of 38 years old, you know that not one of.the affidavits makes any sense whatsoever. Suddenly, Joseph went from being a lazy drunk while with his like-minded, indolent family in Palmyra assaulting innocent neighbors and stealing a neighbor's sheep (an allegation later denied by the son of the neighbor who owned the sheep) to accomplishing everything we know he achieved before his death at such a young age? Yeah, right.

@alibee102 3 года назад

Thank you! I’m going to buy the books now. I’ve just become the gospel doctrine teacher for Sunday school and now I feel certain that I don’t need to waste any lesson time trying to outline historical ’facts’ and ‘context’ as I see in all the you tube CFM lessons.

@royperkins28 8 месяцев назад

Wonderful! Thanks so much for your diligent hard work and bringing light to the true character of the prophet Joseph smith. The truth shall prevail. God bless you

@rossm2102 Год назад

I love the fact that you use this amazing thing called evidence to propose ideas, unlike the anti-mormons who don't back up their ideas with anything other than their limited experience and understanding.

@mikeedwards3323 3 года назад

Very enlightening! Thanks for putting this forward. I have viewed both parts. I believe you got off track a bit in section 1 at 11:24 minutes when you veered off of presenting Enders' findings to question whether any of this matters. You seemed to be giving your conclusions before presenting your (Enders) evidence and did not get back to it until the 27 minute point; after which part 1 closed without actually presenting the promised evidence. I think your presentation would have had better flow if you had actually presented the evidence in part1 -- or at least part of it. After presenting the evidence, your personal conclusions and allegations would have been more relevant and, because of the presented evidence, more credible. Being a convert of ten years, I had to wade through all kinds of Joseph Smith bashing, as I had to go to the internet to get my major questions answered while an investigator [since my LDS friends could not answer them]. I even wondered why LDS folks were so dedicated to Joseph Smith, given all the nasty stuff on the net. I finally came to the conclusion that I needed to give Joseph Smith the benefit of the doubt because of the lack of credible validation of the nasty stuff, and the volume and magnificence of what he accomplished. I reasoned that if the Church could bring me closer to Christ, then that was where I needed to be. If Joseph Smith was involved in dowsing or in using seer stones, then perhaps that was the vehicle God chose to use. And doesn't God always use imperfect human beings for his purposes - Look at the apostle, Peter or Thomas. So thank you for a most valuable presentation. I very much enjoyed and appreciate your presentation and look forward to learning more!

@Kristy_not_kristine 3 года назад

Great info. I'm a traditionalist and I stand with Brother Joseph. Always. How I love that great, good man!

@joshuafusselman3323 Год назад

Wow, thanks so much for this clarification and providing the records which described the Smith family's industry! I am looking forward to listening to your other videos about some of the other issues you referenced.

@larrainemoore1880 Год назад

I knew I didn’t do cartwheels over Anthony Sweat. He has gained so much notoriety over his paintings and books since we started CFM. I didn’t even know who he was before that. Let alone other people who do RU-vid and are progressive towards information about Joseph Smith. Anyway, I do wonder why the church has a seer stone and why if we are struggling as a Church in having strong testimonies, why do that have that on their website and what was its importance? I like just believing in the Urim and Thumin. I’m good with that as the seer stones. And they were passed down through all the prophets!!! Abraham, down to Lehi and on down to Joseph Smith when he got the plates.

@trevorwilkerson8769 Год назад

I too wish I had understood Anthony Sweats position years ago. As my dad told me: "Too soon old & too late smart."

@tribulusterrestris27 Год назад

@Trevor Wilkerson After the church had gone through so much trouble fighting back the progressive, false history Arrington put out, I am dumbfounded that the church and even RMN are promoting these false narratives like the stone in the hat fiction.

@bryanl.taylor6249 Год назад

Thank you for your research, insights, and vision on this topic! We can now read “Rough Stone Rolling” with more objectivity especially when considering the credibility of some of the original sources used on this topic. We can continue to press forward in faith with the knowledge from our previous studies and prayerful considerations that strengthened our testimonies of the Prophet Joseph Smith.

@gottofly2 Год назад

Great filmology! Thanks for defending the prophet Joseph Smith!

@lindalamb6643 3 года назад

So Good!!!❤❤❤

@bryanrasmussen6840 6 месяцев назад

This section of details about the Smith's, is like a nightmare episode of Little house on the prairie.

@trevorwilkerson8769 Год назад

I didn't realize Anthony Sweat & Alex Boyé were buying into the "Magic & Enchanted" theory about Joseph Smith. I wish I knew this years ago. I must be patient with learning a little bit at a time. I appreciate the information. Very well done.

@mopaditi1737 5 месяцев назад

Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God and one of the greatest men who ever lived.

@dalecash2236 Год назад

Amazing content Hannah, thank you!

@richardsonstudies7683 3 года назад

Hallelujah!

@warrenprince5115 Месяц назад

Thank you so much for discovering the verified actual facts and data. That kind of research in other areas of Joseph Smiths “ attack, anti “ history would be so helpful to so many of us!

@danvogel6802 3 года назад

To sum up. The 1830 valuation of the Smiths’ former property that Enders used is irrelevant. It only increased $300 since the 1823 assessment, probably because of the completion of the frames house by Russell Stoddard. Joseph Smith’s money digging and use of a brown seer stone is a historical fact, which JS tried to hide in his official history. Attacking Hurlbut is irrelevant since he only collected the statements from the Smiths’ former neighbors. Trying to impeach everything a witness says by showing a discrepancy (lying about the Smith’s being lazy money diggers) is what layers do, but historians are not bound by that standard, although I don’t believe Ms Stoddard succeeded. Trying to explain away testimony about Joseph Smith’s money digging and use of a seer stone is a dead end because it is based on an irrational grand conspiracy of both friend and foe. Disagree all you want with the Smiths’ neighbors, but their opinion that the Smiths were indolent and spent their idle time money digging is not a lie but has some basis in fact. After the sudden death of Alvin, they were having trouble paying their debts, and at the time the third payment was due Joseph and his father were more than a hundred miles away digging for treasure. Ms Stoddard hasn’t fact checked anything, and she is wrong to say LDS scholarship is divided because her views and methods are outdated and on the fringe. Apologists have tried to deny Joseph Smith’s involvement in money digging and stone gazing, but looking at all the evidence a majority of LDS scholars have had to concede the issue to retain credibility. While a few stubbornly hold to the old apologetic of denial and accusation, most others have defended Joseph Smith by nuancing the evidence and approaching it in a cultural relativistic manner. I encourage you to study these other approaches.

@jeannewright3420 3 года назад

Cameron really answered all these claims below. To me, it's pretty clear this money digging narrative doesn't have a lot of support. And I thought it was pretty interesting how you said lawyers have a better standard at testing witnesses and sources than historians are willing to follow. That really says a LOT about motivations and biases from so called 'historians.'

@danvogel6802 3 года назад

@@jeannewright3420 You should really take the time to learn why there is a difference between the methods of historians and what a jury is instructed to do with impeached testimony. There First, Hannah hasn’t impeached Hurlbut’s affidavits. The assessment records can’t be used to show that they lied about the Smith’s being indolent and occupied with money digging, especially the last five years they lived on the farm, for the reasons I have given below. The evidence for Joseph Smith’s use of a brown seer stone in hunting treasure in both New York and Pennsylvania is as strong as any historian can wish for. LDS historians can quote Emma Smith’s testimony that she was an eyewitness to her husband’s method of translation, although in the same document she denied that he lived polygamy. Why? Because she is supported by many others with the same testimony. Historians handle each piece of the testimony separately. Now, if an untrustworthy source stands alone in making a claim, it would be grounds for caution. The same is true with the money digging testimony. There is just too much evidence to deny it. Now, you can’t simply assume everyone who provides negative evidence is lying and everyone giving positive statements is truthful. Believers are just as biased as unfriendly witnesses. Historians have methods for dealing with both.

@nobodyisprfct Год назад

Very good with details and defense of Joseph Smith. I wish i had such an ability to be so thorough. A great book i think is "Eyewitness Accounts of the Restoration" by Milton V. Backman Jr.

@gokuxt1 8 месяцев назад

learning more every time i hear you speak. keep it up

@maxfirth3834 3 года назад

Did the Smiths own this land or was it leased to them to work on? Did any of the the neighboring farms own that land outright? Also isn't there outside factors that go into the family's wealth besides the farm like JS SR. spice trade that could explain the pressure and the financial burden that the family was feeling at the time?

@mattmeagher365 Год назад

Thank you for your work! You may be a love voice against the MDGR of the LDS church, but we support you!

@jameseverett4976 2 месяца назад

What is the MDGR?

@seagrunter01 Год назад

Incredible video…thank you!

@Boon11000 2 года назад

This is what doesn't make sense to me about them saying the Smith Family was so lazy. During the day they didn't work but at night they would work tirelessly looking for gold? That statement in itself contradicts.

@riannelson67 3 года назад

So wonderful. You are all such a fantastic family.

@DestroyerOfWords 3 года назад

Resentment is the soul of Liberalism (and progressives). If these 'scholars' who ridicule Joseph Smith, most ON OUR DIME BTW, spent as much energy defending the Church we'd have exponential growth. The Gospel, Church History, Joseph Smith and all the Prophets, in a story told truthfully, would lift tens of millions out of disbelief.

@stoutjordan Год назад

A wonderful video. Thank you

@kdeltatube 2 года назад

Well done

@jacobadamsbaseball Год назад

What is Richard Bushman's response to this? Thanks.

@brycejones9997 3 года назад

I’m blown away that you didn’t talk about Joseph smith court records for money digging.

@JosephSmithFoundation 3 года назад

A vidcast on the 1826 trial is included in this series. We are definitely not ignoring that issue!

@jameseverett4976 2 месяца назад

He was of course accused, but the charges were false. Not everyone who is accused of something and dragged into court is guilty. Otherwise what is the point of a court or a trial? Of course there is a record of the trial. There was a record of Jesus' trial as well. Does that prove Jesus was guilty?

@johnroberts6695 Год назад

We'll never convince our enemies that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of GOD. I can only guess how critics like John MacArthur will react to the true gospel of Jesus Christ when they are dead. People ask me, why can't you just give up Joseph Smith? And my reply is, yes, I _could_ give up Smith, but what of the others? He wasn't a one-man band, you know! What about Heber C. Kimball, Parley P. Pratt and his brother Orsen? What about John Taylor, Lorenzo Snow, the great Wilford Woodruff, Orson Hyde and many, many others? Yes, we _could_ reject Joseph, but then we'd have to reject all these others, and all of them had revelatory experiences that sustained Joseph Smith. So what are we to do with them? Then there were the many converts, not only from the United States, but the U.K.? Are we to suppose that they were all Pentecostal mystical wackos? So if we reject Joseph Smith and the many others, then we have to also reject all the other converts who had visions and revelations! And thus we have to reject the entire church along with Joseph Smith, and mister, that just ain't gonna happen. ...

@majesticliberatoroftheoppr3971 2 месяца назад

Thank you, Hannah for the excellent information. You are doing a great work sister.

@mareestephens5234 3 года назад

Joseph Smith did find treasure, it is called the Book of Mormon, and there is only 1 way to know the truth of all things and that is to ask it of God. Thank you for this presentation!

@bryanrasmussen6840 6 месяцев назад

Magic is not evil power. It is the Priesthood and the word has been mistakenly abused. The term "dark magic" is a distinguishment because actual magic is good power

@dianewyatt4242 6 месяцев назад

Thank you, thank you so much for the work you do! THANK YOU~

@dennisthurman2070 11 месяцев назад

So what did Bushman gain from bashing his own faith basically? To sell books? Smh that's really sad

@helenlauaki8011 Год назад

Hannah this is wonderful!!! How do we buy these books, if we live overseas?

@JosephSmithFoundation Год назад

Hi Helen, If you place an order on our store, you can select "international shipping" when you are checking out. A member of our team will contact you with a shipping quote and how to proceed. Thank you!

@helenlauaki8011 Год назад

@@JosephSmithFoundation That's great. Would you be so kind to share your store link? Im not the best at this online stuff.

@JosephSmithFoundation Год назад

No problem! See if this link will work for you. josephsmithfoundation.org/store/

@helenlauaki8011 Год назад

@@JosephSmithFoundation Thank You, KEEP UP THE EXCELLENT WORK. The followers of Lucifer/Satan are many coz they have the Globalist billionaires on their side, but you and others fighting against them with courage and the truth are a few.

@rebecca4770 Год назад

Is it true that William Smith claimed leadership of the church after Joseph's death and became affiliated with other restoration churches and that he had disputes with Brigham Young?

@kevinb6708 5 месяцев назад

Hannah, thank you for all your research. I read the book “A Ruff Stone Rolling” and had a very negative reaction. It just had an evil feeling about it and I did not believe any part of it. I’m glad you’ve come out with this research it makes so much sense. You mentioned some podcasts with these young people that are accepting the sear stone narrative. I can understand they are young and lack understanding, but I’m having a hard time understanding why our current prophet and several others in the first presidency are promoting the seer stone in the hat theory, when Gordon B Hinkley, Ezra, Taft, Benson, and Joseph Fielding Smith, all Said it was not true. Any thoughts on that?

@DavidNellTheHarbinger 3 года назад

I do have a q though, regarding the magical worldview, so the 1826 court examination gives a credible corroborating source to Joseph having a seer stone and looking for lost or hidden objects, do you not see this as one if the pieces of corroborating evidence in favor of joseph and the magical world view? I am not being a turd, im working this out myself as well,

@JosephSmithFoundation 3 года назад

We have a vidcast coming out on the 1826 trial soon. Stay tuned!

@DavidNellTheHarbinger 3 года назад

@@JosephSmithFoundation when? Also, would you get bushman on a podcast to defend himself?

@tgray747 2 месяца назад

Hannah's the best!!!

@JackSonOfJohn 5 месяцев назад

It seems there were also people who tried to discredit him in mentioning the breastplate and urim and thummim. I don't know if we should discredit all the sources that said he used a hat just because they had bad intentions. A broken clock can still be right twice a day.

@jonathanpackard3314 3 года назад

I will stand with Joseph Smith on this one!

@timothyspagnola6909 Год назад

The only gold Joseph searched for was your soul. And your soul is more valuable than all the gold in the universe.

@tenchi586 Год назад

Doesn't the Church quote this book and Bushman on their essays? I don't think this book has been debunked at all. It's a fantastic piece of scholarship.

@millennialfalkon Год назад

It doesn’t even sound like you know what you’re talking about - vague, nebulous opening question you’re not even sure of. No source material to point to. And despite being unclear still plant your flag on it as credible. Wow.

@gernblanstein820 3 года назад

So what do you say about the peep stone in the hat used to translate the golden plates?

@JosephSmithFoundation 3 года назад

Hi Gern, Please check out the book authored by James and Hannah Stoddard, "Seer Stone v. Urim & Thummim" for a review of the seer stone translation hypothesis. www.amazon.com/Seer-Stone-Urim-Thummim-Translation/dp/1644670119 Also available through the Joseph Smith Foundation store: josephsmithfoundation.org/store/product/seer-stone-v-urim-thummim-book-of-mormon-translation-on-trial-book/ Credible history vs. revisionist hearsay - Answering faith crisis with real history. A story of magic, murder, and betrayal. Seer Stone v. Urim and Thummim places the Book of Mormon translation on trial, presenting the latest research in one of the most comprehensive treatments of the translation process to date providing encouragement for Latter-day Saints who fear they have been “betrayed” by the translation history taught by the Church for over 190 years. Did Joseph Smith study and master the Nephite language? Did the Prophet tutor some of the early Brethren in ancient Nephite characters? Did Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon using a dark seer stone in a hat? Why are progressive historians creating a new history using sources from a man who vowed to wash his hands in the blood of Joseph Smith, while boasting that he had deceived the Prophet and his God? Has The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints covered up its history for nearly 200 years? Is David Whitmer a credible witness of the Book of Mormon translation? Did you know that David Whitmer consulted a witch and occultic seer stones, denounced Joseph Smith as a false prophet and aided the mob in the persecution of the Missouri Saints? Did Joseph Smith cover up his use of a seer stone during the translation, feigning use of the Urim and Thummim? “Seer Stone v. Urim and Thummim makes a great case for simply going ‘back to the basics’! That is, accepting the translation of the Book of Mormon as Joseph said it was done, as opposed to how others claim it was done. It is well researched and very enlightening and a must read for those who are willing to accept the words of Joseph and other prophets at face value.” -Kay M Godfrey, Author, Joseph Smith Epoch Historian

@mikeboyd3225 4 месяца назад

Leave this to the grownups. People have been trying to discredit Joseph Smith for 200 years. NONE have done it.

@lauraparkes6591 3 года назад

Love it!!!!!!

@squarebusinessofficial Год назад

How about the wives Joseph Smith married and the affividates in church history published in church history documents.

@JosephSmithFoundation Год назад

We have an entire book published on one of the plural wives of Joseph Smith if you are interested in learning more. "Joseph Smith's Plural Wives, Volume 1: Helen Mar Kimball" josephsmithfoundation.org/store/product/helen-mar-kimball-book/

@jameseverett4976 2 месяца назад

Interesting avatar. It seems so accurate.

@VincentNoot 7 месяцев назад

I never understood why it would be a bad thing if he were involved in treasure digging? What's wrong with digging for treasure? People who are against the church always mention that as if he was some selfish, greedy cult leader, but the way I see it, is just a nice way to boost your income, right? If he were digging for treasure, doesn't seem like it says anything about the validity of the Book of Mormon, which has been proven over and over again to be an authentic record.

@trevorwhite4458 3 года назад

Absolutely brilliant!! Thanks

@decisionsfromdata7922 Год назад

You say there is no credible witness of Joseph using a seer stone, but What about David Whitmers own book “an address to all believers in Christ.” that says Joseph did use one, or millennial star vol 44 p86-87 that says Martin Harris also described him using the stone? Does your book explain these and Emma’s account where she said he did also? Why is your comments at 44 min different from the church’s? Just looking for complete answers. Also why does every apologist make Joseph sound like he was an uneducated farmer, if his family was upper middle class and school teachers that taught him every day. I agree any anti Mormon claiming Joseph was lazy is counter intuitive to everything else we see from him, an educated young man who could tell stories invent solutions would make more sense.

@JosephSmithFoundation Год назад

Based on extensive research and a detailed analysis of David Whitmer's statements, we believe the evidence shows that his claims (which often changed and contradicted his own statements on other occasions) are not reliable. Please see the book written by James and Hannah Stoddard, "Seer Stone v. Urim & Thummim." www.amazon.com/Seer-Stone-Urim-Thummim-Translation/dp/1644670119 Emma and Martin's statements will be covered in the sequel to this book but similar issues can be found. They both gave statements that contradicted earlier positions they held, there is evidence of biased motives and connections to hostility against Joseph Smith, and possible influence from others that eventually led them to advocate a theory that contradicted all of the statements from the Prophet Joseph Smith himself.

@jerry_phillips Год назад

I’m sorry but if you’re troubled by RSR I’d say grow up. You don’t have to have a Pollyanna view of Joseph Smith and his youth to know he was a prophet. If God could only work through infallible mortals he’s have no one to work through.

@UVJ_Scott 3 года назад

Thanks for the information! I read “Rough Stone Rolling” and didn’t like it because I didn’t like Brother Bushman telling me what Joseph was thinking when he did this or that. But I think you worry too much about Joseph Smith and “magic”. Magic is a thing. The priests of Pharaoh turned staves into snakes and Moses did too. Moses used his staff to find water. Joseph of Egypt used a silver cup for divination. Christ turned water into wine. Sally Chase using her stone could see that Joseph had hid the plates under the hearth. Joseph used his stone to find out Sally knew where the plates were. More people through the ages have discovered where water is using a divining rod than any other way. Magic or whatever you want to call it, is a thing and I love the Prophet even more because of his faith to use objects such as stones to get revelation. John in the book of Revelation says those who are worthy will receive a white stone. Will some just throw it away?

@JosephSmithFoundation 3 года назад

Any time there is "supernatural" interaction, moving beyond the standard laws of nature, the source of that "supernatural" event is either God or the adversary. If it is God, it is performed through Priesthood power and no other way-so teach the revelations. All other interactions are from the adversary. Progressives try to complicate and add a third grey area of "folk magic." This is contrary to the teachings of the revelations regarding the power of God or Satan. There is no such thing as "folk magic." If it is Satan's power, it can be known as the occult, magic, sorcery, divination, witchcraft, etc. If it is the Lord's power, it is Priesthood by proper authority and righteousness with no exceptions. This is clearly understood and taught in the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He and his family denounced magic and all forms of "supernatural" interactions outside of Priesthood by proper authority and righteousness.

@JosephSmithFoundation 3 года назад

Also, see this article from LDS Answers: Was Joseph Smith involved in witchcraft, magic and the occult? ldsanswers.org/was-joseph-smith-involved-in-witchcraft-magic-and-the-occult/

@irowco 11 месяцев назад

Trying to evaluate a person's character from historical documents is difficult. For example, when trying to get a picture of Abraham Lincoln as a youth, one contemporary remembered he was so skinny that he had a spidery look and was tired all the time, which was viewed as laziness (and historians now think Abe grew so fast that he was physically exhausted due to lack of rest and nourishment). Dennis Hanks (the illegitimate cousin to Abe's stepmom) said "Lincoln was lazy - a very lazy man. He was always reading - scribbling - writing - ciphering Poetry." The neighbors for whom he worked agreed that he was "awful lazy," and, as one remarked, "he was no land to pitch in at work like killing snakes." So, the "rail-splitter" and person who later would walk miles to return "correct change" to a customer was lazy? The man who taught himself law and became president was indolent and unambitious? Abe's own dad, Thomas Lincoln, stated he thought his son spent too much time on his books, "having sometimes to slash him for neglecting his work by reading" and viewed Abe's desire to learn as lazy. Obviously, these contemporaries were attributing their own narrow interpretation of "hard work" and worthwhile activities to judge Abe Lincoln's work ethic. Candidly, if Abe's father and step-cousin could be so wrong, I can't help but strongly question the subjective opinions of Joseph Smith's neighbors and acquaintances-- even if in a sworn affidavit.

@brigham9906 3 года назад

Wow, watching now.

@randiklug6552 Год назад

The problem is you didn’t talk about ALL the evidence of Joseph Smith’s treasure digging that Richard Bushman points out in his book. Focusing strictly on the problems with the antagonizing sources only paints part of the picture but I’m sure you knew that already. His conclusion and judgment of Joseph in his youth comes from ALL the evidence not just the sworn affidavits. Also, couldn’t Joseph and his family have been hard working, faithful, and fascinated with folk magic all at the same time? Let’s also point out that there were several individuals in the Smith family and who knows who believed or acted in what way but could have been lumped in with the whole group. It felt super icky to hear you call Joseph Smith a type of Jesus Christ. Seems pretty sacrilegious to compare anyone to the Savior no matter how many parallels you may think you see.

@jameseverett4976 2 месяца назад

As soon as she mentioned Jesus Christ and the similarities in accusations against them, I knew someone would feel compelled to conflate it into meaning she was comparing Joseph against Jesus as a person.

@Sayheybrother8 Год назад

His mom literally said we still did magic but not to the neglect of the farm. You’re saying Lucy isn’t credible!!! Why are you going this Hannah? You’re hurting people. He was arrested for doing it.

@JosephSmithFoundation Год назад

If you read Lucy Mack Smith's statement in context, it is very clear she said the opposite. Lucy denied that her family had any involvement in magic. See this article on the Latter-day Answers website, excerpted from the Stoddard's book, Faith Crisis 2. "Did Joseph Smith’s mother, Lucy Mack Smith, say her family practiced 'abrac, magic circles & soothsaying'? Rough Stone Rolling Debunked" ldsanswers.org/did-joseph-smiths-mother-lucy-mack-smith-say-her-family-practiced-abrac-magic-circles-soothsaying-rough-stone-rolling-debunked/

@Sayheybrother8 Год назад

@@JosephSmithFoundation well I guess I’m using the wrong urim and thummin to translate what she said there.