A further problem with the “men are drooling idiots” idea is that in their ideology men are supposed to be at the top of social hierarchy. If men are nothing more than sloppy animals who have no self control then why should they be in charge of anything? Thankfully, men *aren’t* animals! But this ideology is so baffling to me because it’s so contradictory.
Yeah, "drooling idiots" until it comes to fixing cars, making huge business proposals, and holding high federal offices. It's very interesting that that "idiocy" only happens when it's time to care for children or do the laundry xD
Even when I was a super devout Christian, I hated the concept of “the father’s daughter”. My father was barely present in my sisters’ lives and was a horrible role model. But God says he owns them? Nah. I walked my younger sister down the aisle and I never saw it as a transfer of ownership.
Very good of you 👏. Also, I think it is very telling how they talk of women & group them in the same context & category as property. Just astonishingly awful and has no place whatever in a modern, enlightened society, if any society ever.
@@jice7074 Whatever "God" you believe in is not being discussed (unless you are a member of Mark's church). Mark's God (aka Mark) thinks fathers own their daughters. If anything I am refuting the idea that all Christians think that daughters are property because when I WAS Christian I did not think this. But there is a large population of people who use religion as an excuse to subjugate women and limit their human rights. This guy is one of them.
My husband and I got married on our 10 year anniversary and were sexually active the whole time, and have one of the healthiest relationships in our social circle…God had nothing to do with our wedding either 😂
Yeah, not me listening to this as someone who's been with my partner for almost a decade, bought a house together, gotten our foster license, moved cities together because of a job... but yeah, it's just all about sex 😒😂😂😂
@@stilted yeah, we own a home, we have a dog and a cat, have two children, and are now coming up on our two year wedding anniversary. I would rather be in a relationship with a person who is with me because they choose to love my family and I than because they fear consequences (damnation) if they leave. To me, that’s more of a commitment.
Similar story here! My husband & I have been together since we were 16 & we're turning 30 this year. We got married at 26 for the benefits & to have a fun party with our families. Neither of us are religious. We were each other's first for everything & couldn't be happier. Good to know that we're still dirty f'ing heathens living a twisted sinful life! 👍
The whole wording was trash. We all start out a complete idiots is not appropriate bc sure, children are dumb, but it is not like an advent choice, their brains have yet to develop. But in adulthood, not all men start out as idiots.
@thevintagerose but doesn't that go against their stance that _everyone_ starts out INCOMPLETE and they're supposed to spend a great deal of their early life looking for their missing half? ^^
@LakinMae5 That's not analogous at all. What would be analogous is if you work at a university for 10 years and still don't get tenure. The university has made no commitment towards you. (The only problem with this analogy is that the commitment is mutual in marriage unlike in tenure)
Heck, I made a video promoting abstinence and still messed up. But at least I've still only been with one woman. I definitely do not believe in casual sleeping around.
What’s funny is that I see dating for 10 years as more impressive than being married for 10 years. If you’re dating, it’s much easier to say “this relationship isn’t working out, we should break it off” and the fact that they haven’t is truly a testament to their love and commitment to each other.
Not always. I knew a couple who were unmarried but together for a decade that still broke up quite suddenly where I didn't see it coming. So if that was a testament it didn't work any better than a divorced marriage.
Meh I see it going either way. I see dating as less commitment, so it's not impressive to stay together because I see it as fostering a child. Where I see marriage as adopting a child. One has much more commitment than the other. One ought not to be given up on. I take my vows as seriously as saying I'm gonna adopt you.
my dad was a pastor and used to berate my mom from the pulpit for laughs. it's more common than you'd think, and always embarrassing behavior. narcissists are drawn to the power of that position
I am always sorry for the kids. Things were different back then with finding partners. In todays society I dont understand why would anyone be down to dating a narcissist, and it is usually the insecure people who do that. There is some dynamic, but there is a lot of pain in the family.
I attended a church service where two young people that were dating were made to get up on stage in front of the WHOLE CHURCH and "confess their sin" and "ask for forgiveness". Unsurprising side note: said couple left the church soon after.
Wow that's horrific. Don't do things because they're right; do them because otherwise you will be shamed into conformity. How do these people claim that they have any kind of morals...
I don’t believe Mark when he says he didn’t know having sex before marriage was a sin until after they started sleeping together. Even if you didn’t grow up in the church and hear the countless sermons on purity culture, I feel like everyone has heard the phrase “living in sin” related to living with a partner or heard people’s opinions during health class in school. Especially in his generation, premarital sex would have been more of a taboo. I think he just made up an excuse because he can’t let his congregation see him as a sinner.
@@anainesgonzalez8868 Driscol grew up in America. Even the relatively secular areas are still filled with Christians who screech this sort of nonsense all the time. There is no way he didn't know that sex outside of marriage was a sin in his gods eyes.
I grew up in a secular home and yup, I still knew that premarital sex was frowned on in Christian circles as sinful, certainly by the time I hit high school. Driscoll's an even bigger dumdum than he says or just playing at it so he can blame his wife.
@@anainesgonzalez8868 The U.S. is not, and has not been, a very secular country. Mark is really a coward and is trying to blame his wife and be the "holy and blameless one." Unfortunately, she just takes that sh*t from him as his obedient, submissive (and brainwashed) wife.
Poor thing, she's been conditioned all her life to accept that treatment as normal. And now she is teaching other women to accept that as normal as well. So sad.
I am so confused by the "I didn't know premarital sex was a sin" story. Was he not a Christian? Had he never spoken to any Christians? Is this a thing that's possible?
@@colonelweirdcompletely agree, there’s so little detail that it allows them to project whatever “lesson” they want on to what is essentially a blank canvas.
Driscoll's message is also ableist AF. Some people with disabilities CAN'T get married or they'll risk losing certain medical benefits they need. Marriage equality can't just stop at LGBTQ+ rights, until disabled people can get married without being penalized, we still won't have marriage equality. There are many reasons someone might choose not to get married and the only ones I see being "selfish" here is Mark and his wife by assuming that what works for them has to work for everyone and if you don't do things their way, you're destined to a terrible, abusive, unhealthy relationship. 🙄
I love being born out of wedlock and arguing with these people. And my mother is 35 years older than me (no teen pregnancies or anything similar involved lol). Almost like life commitment and/or having children together is far more complex than having a ring on your finger. Almost.
My brother and I are also born out of wedlock. Our parents have been together for 35 years now and still going strong! My dad likes to jokingly say that they're "living in sin" (even though they're not religious), and though my parents were ahead of their time it is now quite common in my country for couples to never marry - the vast majority of people I meet under the age of 40 are not married to their long term partners.
@@KreeZafi ha, I was confident you were going to say somewhere in the Northern Europe! Makes so much sense since a vast majority of Sweden’s population are atheists. Am I correct?
@@annam5898 That is indeed correct! And even among those who aren't atheists they're rarely actually religious, they'll be more like "yeah I just think there's, you know, something bigger than us or whatever" but people actually believing in scripture and such is exceedingly rare. Which I'm sure plays a role in marriage quickly going out of fashion! Also the fact that there are hardly any benefits to marriage plays a role, afaik the only real difference is that you'll inherit if your spouse dies (and actually my parents have outright said they DON'T want that, they'd rather that we as the kids inherit when they die, which is what will happen since they're unmarried)
The concept of premarital sex being a sin is so fundamental to Christian beliefs that kids learn it long before they'd typically take sex ed (assuming they were allowed to) or even show an interest in it. So to say he didn't know it was a sin is either him admitting he's an idiot, or he's lying to make himself look morally superior. I'm sure they're not mutually exclusive.
True. I don't wanna make generalizations about who all wrote the bible. But my guess is that they all were icky and uncomfortable about sex. The God of the bible is very mad about weirdly specific human things. When I was christian, I remember noticing that my family was only practicing the good parts of the bible. If people actually followed everything in the bible. It would be a terrible world.
@@ComicXanz "I don't wanna make generalizations about who all wrote the bible." The book where God ORDERS his followers to take underage girls as sex slaves. But consensual sex? THAT'S a sin!
@@ComicXanz Here’s the thing. The people who wrote the Bible didn’t all agree with one another. Sometimes they strongly disagreed. Certain kinds of Christians go through a ton of mental gymnastics to paper over that. But really, the Bible should be read as an anthology, not as a single book. Just read the first two creation stories. One portrays God as an all powerful being who spoke the world into existence, created non-human animals on the 5th day and humans on the 6th day. In the next story, God seems more human, walking around the Earth asking Adam & Eve where they are. In this story, God made Adam first, then made other animals as potential helpers/companions, then made Eve. These are two different-and contradictory- stories that were edited together. That’s a problem for readers who insist that it’s one unified inerrant book. But if you see it for what it is - a collection of different people’s writings - then it’s no big deal. So, some passages are earthy - e.g., Song of Solomon. Others are more sex-negative. Because people have been disagreeing for centuries. If you read the Bible carefully, you see humans arguing with each other just like today.
I’m just gonna say this, as a person who has been with my partner for 16 years I’ve heard (even in the secular space) “why not get married, what’s stopping them from leaving?” Ummm… nothing stops them but like marriage also isn’t some mystical tether that prevents people from leaving.
Exactly, this. Why would you want to have someone stay with you just because doing paperwork to leave is difficult? Im going on 8 years with my partner, we spoke about our future, decided not to marry. Im happy to know he chooses me every day
100%! I've been with my partner for 12 years and we're not married. If he wants to leave, he should leave! He shouldn't stay because he's stuck with me by a piece of paper. That's SUCH a weirdly common take - if your commitment to someone is so shallow that without that paper you would leave, holy shit I feel so bad for you..
@@ironically_joy Commenting again because I just read yours after posting - exactly. Every day you're in a relationship is a choice. It should never feel like you can't leave. Wishing you and your partner the best - y'all sound lovely!
It's so wild to me that the concepts of "trust" and "communication" are so alien to some people. What's to stop them leaving - how about when they are feeling that way, we talk it out and actually work through the issues? And want to be together enough to know we're going to try? But sure.... making it legally binding is healthier. Nothing seems off about that. I really wish marriage wasn't tied into so many things legally in the US. Nothing against it for those who want to go through with a ceremony and all, but it really seems like an outdated system that could use a little updating when it comes to healthcare/legal definitions/taxes etc.
I am currently grieving in the aftermath of coming out to my family as non-Christian. Driscoll has the same demeanor and talking points of every male member of my family, and right now it’s just really nice to hear a conversation between two lovely, intellectually honest people that reminds me I am NOT crazy for wanting to get away from…*gestures wildly*…this
you're honestly so brave though im terrified of my family finding out im not christian lol. hope that you are safe and have plenty of supportive friends/found family etc to surround yourseld with instead (i gotta work on that part 😢)
@@petrichorbonesI wasn’t ready to come out for several years after de-converting, and lots of people never do, for good reasons. I wish you happiness on whatever you decide for your life!
@@petrichorbones I hope you and OP both know you are doing the right thing. You need to do what feels honest and right to you... Not what you were raised in. Sending internet love, hoping you are both safe.
My family is not in the same level, but devout Catholics and I simply decided to not officially come out to them. I simply left when I could and in family reunions I simply don’t talk about religion or religious subjects as much as possible. I chose that because I know if I officially tell them I’m not religious anything bad that might happen to me and I’ll be used as an example and I don’t want to be that. Not marrying in the church might have been a huge giveaway, though that is something that my parents mellowed down after ten years and two grandchildren later.
If I meet an unmarried couple that's been together for 10 years, I'd admire that even more than a married couple for 10 years. Married couples can be kept together by the stress of not wanting to get a divorce because it's expensive and can be embarrassing and contentious. An unmarried couple of 10 years is more likely to be together because they just love each other
I had a pastor refuse to marry a couple that were living together, and would only marry them if one of them moved out. They left and got married somewhere else.
What I’ve noticed about these pastors is that that like inserting themselves into the god role. The whole…God speaks through me…bit. They get off on that power. What’s sad is that people are all too willing to grant them that power. People want to be told what to do.
Definitely agree. They’ll cloak it in “I’m just speaking truth in love” when it’s really about them feeling like they’ve been granted superiority from God that other people haven’t.
I just got engaged and I’ve been with my fiancé for over like 12 years and we’ve ALWAYS said that with complete pride. That we didn’t get married until the exact moment that we were ready and in the perfect position. We never fight and we’re going to have a baller wedding. We live in such harmony. I trust him with my life. I couldn’t have said that 5 years ago and we still had an incredible relationship.
I'm not sure what the person who sent this question in was expecting to hear from MARK DRISCOLL. I almost feel like this was somebody's passive aggressive parent who submitted this pretending to be their child and then just STARED at their child through the whole answer
me too, this really doesn't seem like something a devoted fan of mark driscoll would ask lol. i was also thinking it might be asked by a parent trying to prove a point to their child who isn't married.
I was wondering that too. Like what person says "I think it's true love" about a ten year relationship? That line alone seems so weird and ingenuine to me. I've been with my partner for 12 years and I can't think of a single scenario in which I would say anything resembling that sentence.
Maybe someone wanted to trigger this response to prove a point or something. Why does it have to be a fan? I ask questions from people I despise to know what they would answer
These logical fallacies like “their relationship is abusive” just bc they aren’t married must be how people jump to “trans people are harming kids” from them simply existing. It’s awful.
They put so much useless words and doctrine in their heads that they end up more confused and therefore angry. When you take a back seat in choosing your morals and values, you let some idiot like Mark pick them for you. Religion is supposed to be enlightening rather than causing further suffering.
I did some research about the domestic violence in cohabiting couples vs married couples and it IS actually statistically more likely that cohabiting couples will experience domestic violence, but as always, CORRELATION =/= CAUSATION. The two categories are not equal in terms of selection because cohabitors have three options: remain cohabitors, marry, or separate, while married couples have two options: remain married or divorce. In layman's terms, there's a one-way road from cohabitation into marriage that does not flow back the other way, which makes it an inherently unequal set of categories to compare. Violent married couples tend to divorce while nonviolent married couples tend to stay together, meaning that the category naturally lends itself to an increase of nonviolent proportion over time. Furthermore, nonviolent cohabiting couples are also likely to transition into marriage, again increasing the proportion of nonviolent married couples without necessarily proving that cohabitation is more likely to breed violence. These surveys also do not take into account other socioeconomic factors such as income level which also have proven correlations with domestic violence.
right, abusive relationships that don't fast track to marriage are more likely to end before marriage. that's a good thing: marriage being the final step rather than the first step means fewer people legally trapped in abusive situations. and, at least anecdotally, in unmarried abusive relationships, if there's someone pressing for marriage, it's always the abuser.
@@charisma-hornum-fries i tried replying with the link but it gets automatically deleted. Google jstor marriage cohabitation domestic violence, author listed is C T Kenney
It's also much easier to escape an abusive relationship if you aren't legally and financially bound to your abuser. If my partner of ~15 years suddenly decided to lose it and become abusive, I could safely be out in an hour. I would just need to make arrangements about splitting shared property and retrieving my belongings later.
I don't understand how he could not have known that having sex before marriage is considered a sin by christians. I think he's being dishonest to make himself sound better and his wife seem less.
Was he always a christian? I, growing up an atheist, just learned that like at 24 or something. I even asked the person from whom I learned if it was a sin even if someone didn’t know (she told me that if you do not know is not a sin)
@@anainesgonzalez8868 You are right, I should not generalize and I know everyone has different life experiences. I guess it's just hard for me to believe him in particular about that point. It just feels like something a man like that would say to make himself look better.
Not all Christians travel in weird fundie circles. I was a Christian kid and nobody ever told me that some people still considered consensual, honest, premarital sex between adults to be a sin.
According to his Wikipedia profile, he was raised Roman Catholic. Last time I checked, Catholics also believe that premarital sex is a sin, so there's no way he didn't know.
from a strictly biblical standard, as long as the woman's father is ok with the relationship (and we have no reason to think he's not), they're legitimately married. the bible doesn't say anything about marriage licenses or ceremonies or white dresses or any of that. a wife is just a woman you have a right to fuck, usually because her male kin sold or gave her to you for that purpose.
This, exactly, this... is what makes the "giving away the bride" in Anglo-Saxon culture so freaky to me. I'ts not romantic - it's a reminder of the daughter being property of her father being passed to her husband as his property. In Sweden the bride and the groom walk together into the church (or whatever avenue they chose, however churches are still preferred). This is an announcement to the world that this decision is made by them together.
I can't wrap my head around the idea of asking a dude for permission to shag his daughter but only if the dad throws in a couple of goats a a cow. You would think it would be hey dude here's a goat and a cow don't stab me in the back when I am shagging your daughter.
Usually the deal done because of the father having a buddy. Even if the female is horribly traumatized by the whole thing. She is fodder. The fact that she isnt allowed to express her horror of being dehumanized ends up being the turmoil we as women tend to fight against.
This kind of behavior is so common in fundamentalist circles especially. I know of many instances, but one that comes to mind is a 15 and 16-year-old that admitted to kissing, their parents told their pastor, and they were told from the pulpit that they had to get married or never see each other again...
I commented a couple videos ago that I was in a committed, loving 20+ year relationship without being married or having kids. I know it's not "normal" and outside what most people do, but it works for us and we've proven our love for each other over and over. Someone commented to me that it was ridiculous and I was in a "toxic relationship." The comment astounded me in its rigidity, and reminded me yet again that one of the main reasons I left my fundie faith was the suffocating nature of its beliefs. This video is just more proof of that!
20 years is a long time. I've only been married for 11. But it's hard for me to imagine wanting to be with someone and not wanting to officially marry them. One time a coworker of mine asked me how much he'd have to spend on a ring. I said the ring isn't the important thing. You need to be willing to share EVERYTHING with your woman. My wife knows everything I have is hers and everything she has is mine. And legally, that's true. It's not just symbolic anymore. It's like being a champion and putting that championship, that title representing everything you have worked to be, on the line. If all you do is compete in non-title matches, and still win them, you're still the clear champion, but there's something about putting that title on the line that makes it more special I think. It is without question a braver move. Stupider perhaps, but definitely braver.
This is probably my biggest issue with so much of Christianity. The whole "anyone who does things differently than I do must be miserable" thing is such a big part of why Christians end up causing problems for non-believers. They've been told over and over and over again that the only way to be moral, happy, fulfilled, etc, etc is to be Christian (and their brand of Christian, no less). And it's just low key dehumanization. So why treat anyone else as if they have valid experiences and opinions? Clearly they're immoral and miserable and if they just did things the way these people want their problems will be solved! And I know #notallChristians, but I've seen this attitude in even many of the more (small l) liberal or openminded denominations. You have to get practically to the UCC and UU realms to start getting groups that don't view the world as though only bad comes from living in ways they don't explicitly endorse. (lightly edited for grammar only)
Side note: My friend just got elected ELCA Lutheran Bishop for her region and she works hard to avoid sending this message. Doesn't mean I'm going to join her denomination or that it's without fault. Just wanted to give a nod to those Christians who do legitimately and fully respect others.
Imagine what the Christians would be like if they don’t believe that Non Christians are all “immoral and miserable”… How many would look back on their life (and Beliefs) and think “WTF……”
I listened to this episode while I was painting a room in my home today. I met my boyfriend in 2004, randomly in a bar. I had no idea 19 years, a home and daughter later we would still be together. Is it perfect absolutely not but what relationship is. No piece of paper from the government is going to change that. I’ve never been abused physically. He obviously has no idea what a relationship can be.
Another point - What is it about so many of these Evangelicals that they think it’s appropriate to tell their sexual activities and/or history to the public or strangers? Some things should REALLY be kept private. The same goes for Paul and Morgan and how much they discuss her sexual history. 😒
I don't believe Mark when he says that he didn't know that sex before marriage was considered a sin. There's no way he didn't get abstinence shoved down his throat, unless he didnt grow up going to church.
I mean, those people being sexist trash is nothing new. I think it's funny how religious people talk about the necessity for marriage, but so many of their sermons are dedicated to what you need to do to have a functional relationship. Meanwhile, I'm over here living in "sin" for 14 years. No intervention necessary, no classes or sermons, and I'm not saying we've never had a single issue but we respect and trust each other so we're able to make it over any hurdles.
yeah. unless you are in a place where marriage comes with significant benefits (e.g. if you live in the US and need the legal tie to access your partner's health insurance), it is just a hassle and some paperwork whatever you call it, a relationship is a relationship and takes effort to maintain and nurture
I've been with my "boyfriend" (I prefer the term partner) for 26 years, and we have an adult son together. Never married, never wanted to, plenty committed. This guy's outlook on relationships is downright icky.
Being a graduate student, there are so many people in my lab who have been with their partners for so long (up to 11 years), but no marriage is in the cards yet due to expense. There are sooo many reasons why you don’t get married while being in a committed relationship. Mark has such a narrow worldview it is startling…
A faithful ten year relationship is impressive, but did y’all ever hear the story about a man who waited for fourteen years to marry the woman of his dreams? Such an unfaithful and ungodly man that Jacob was, he even cheated with his girl’s sister halfway through the wait!
One thing that really bothers me with this man getting so upset about the length of the relationship without marriage is that we have no idea how old the individuals in the couple are. My sister and her husband had been dating for 11 years before getting married because they started dating when they were 15. Regardless of sexual activity, dating for 10 years prior to marrying (if you even want to do that) can be super reasonable, and it's weird that this guy is making such a big deal out of it.
@@bangsandbullets It might, sure, but generaly you don't need neither money nor education to marry someone. These two play a major factor in terms of having kids however.
@@MankindDiary it plays a major factor in being able to functionally live. Acting like all a couple needs is to be 18 ignores a significant amount of nuance that absolutely impacts them
@@bangsandbullets I'm not saying that the couple only needs to be 18 be successful. I'm saying that you don't need money nor education to get married. Things you mention are important in relationships in general, it doesn't matter if you're married or just with someone unofficially.
They extrapolated from the statement “I’ve been dating the same woman for 10 years”: -she’s mentally unwell -he’s an immature man child who only wants sex -he probably abuses her in multiple ways …alright what else 😂 also does anyone else get the feeling that they are hardcore projecting?
Plot twist! The couple are 18 this year. They've been dating since they were in second grade. It started as an innocent crush, but they're Cory & Topanga IRL.
They are assuming that this dude has been a Christian for the whole time. What if he recently came to their faith and is now questioning his situation? This whole thing is nuts
I dont think the real reason is beign adressed. women are viewed as an object , which is why dating is seen to devalue them. Marriage is a gift for men because they can own a woman to use her
This whole thing starts making a lot more sense when you realize it’s all projection. The wife is her husband’s mother for… being in an equal partnership? He states that « sex is for marriage and marriage is for men », in other words, he wants an unequal dynamic with the husband as the father figure. They can’t understand commitment outside of an artificial ritual saying that they are committed? They dismiss 10 years of life as uncommitted. They think the only valid relationship is one that lasts into eternity and that you have to stay into under threat of going to hell? They accuse them of codependency. This whole conversation is based on ZERO external information, so all they have to go on is their own insecurities. It’s all a big mirror.
I want to see a video about Christians and projection, because almost every thing they get mad about and blame "the World" for, they literally do themselves.
I’ll be getting married to my significant other next year, and we’ve been together for 10 years. We’re both not religious. And I would say I’m committed to her, with or without the marriage.
I was with my bf for ten years & we both agreed that marriage wasn’t for us. We didn’t need a piece of paper to prove our love. We didn’t want a wedding ceremony spectacle in front of our friends/family. We didn’t even want kids. We were perfectly happy just knowing that we loved each other. He passed away in 2019 & hearing pious people talk like this about another couple is really frustrating. Assumptions galore!
I feel like dating a long time before you marry ensures that you know each other better, instead of just jumping into a marriage after a brief courtship. I know it's anecdotal, but my husband and I dated for 4.5 years before we could afford to live together, and we actually didn't live together until AFTER we had been married for 7 months and had a child! He literally had to join the military because we wanted to get married so badly and couldn't afford it. He tried to get me to marry him before I got pregnant, but I told him I wanted to finish that year of college first. We've been married for over 19 years! My mom insists on telling everyone that we had to have a shotgun wedding, and that our 51 week engagement didn't count, because I didn't have a ring. Nevermind that he was having one custom made that I took a long time to pick out, and that we were living in different states. Anyway our marriage is fantastic, so they can bite me😉
I have an issue with the idea that if you're not married, people can just leave you. If the reason why you're not leaving someone is because you're married then there's already a problem to begin with. Kinda like bringing a dog to your room and closing the door. Sure he may lie down for a while but that doesn't mean he wants to be there, and that's evident when he jumps to his feet the moment you touch the door knob. I prefer to leave the door open. If he stays it truly means he wants to stay. To be clear this is not an anti-marriage statement, only that marriage can be used as a sort of manipulative prison if the relationship is not healthy to begin with
The day before my wedding, my father insisted I was a whore that only wanted to get married to have sex. Little did he know that happened long before the engagement 😂
I have a wonderful father who couldn't care less whether I was having sex before marriage or not. As long as I was safe, happy and healthy, he was content. He saw me as my own person, not his property.
Married after meeting someone 4 months ago: committed to each other Unmarried but together for a decade: not committed, relationship in shambles Got it
Man when they said it would be embarrassing for her to say how long theyve been dating that does so much to reveal how toxic their world view is. Out here in the real world when you say you've been dating someone for 10 years the response would usually be to congratulate you on a long happy relationship. In their world women should be ashamed if they don't immediately get married as soon as they can have babies.
There’s a term called “The Relationship Escalator” where you are always pushed up to the next level in a relationship, and if you’re not you’re doing it wrong. The whole “when is it going to get serious?” “How about kids?” Etc. Etc. rather than relationships just finding where they’re most comfortable, and even de-escalating with kindness and friendship. Instead, with the escalator the only way off is jumping off and starting at the bottom or dying at the top.
It is absolutely bananas to me that after everything he did at Mars Hill, he was able to garner a whole new church following just a short time later. What is it about these horrific men that they are able to float from one congregation to the next despite their egregious actions being so public? Even as a Christian, I am truly baffled.
The pastor is doing the impossible... reading someone else's mind. Who knows why this couple has lived together for 10 years without getting officially married? This pastor thinks he does.
One of my friends has been chased out of several churches because they insist that her and her long-term boyfriend get married. They have two kids, one of which is severely disabled and requires very expensive care. They would lose all government benefits towards that care if they married. But as a 'single mother' with a live-in boyfriend, most of that is paid for. They are barely getting by with both if them working now. They would literally starve if they married.
This! As a disabled person with a fundamentalist family I have to remind them constantly why I cannot marry due to the fact my medical needs would no longer be covered and id literally die.
I am a Christian and I agree with a lot of what you are discussing. The idea that a woman doesn’t belong to herself, that healthy long term committed love can’t occur outside marriage, and many other ideas are toxic and can be proven to exist by the lives of many people today and in the past. Jesus’s genealogy in the Bible is full of people who had relationships and lives that were outside the framework that Driscoll is pushing in this video. Christians claim to love all people and then do stuff like this and it’s disturbing.
Driscoll"s response is so stupid. The couple has been dating for 10 years. For all we know they started "dating" when they were 14 and are currently in college with plans to marry (or not) once they are out of school and have some financial security. They made so many assumptions about the couple that were way out of line.
I don't believe this depicts a real interaction. There's no way someone attending Driscoll's church would be unaware of exactly how he would respond to that question. Plus Driscoll knew he was going to "rebuke" someone even before the question was asked. The whole thing was a planned exercise to display Driscoll's "tough love" to the congregation and the world. Pure narcissism.
It’s fake humility. It’s meant to absolve him of his guilt over the harm he’s done. As long as he can say he was an idiot, he doesn’t need to take responsibility.
One of the healthiest relationships I have ever witnessed is my aunt and uncle. They were together for 58 years, from their teens to my uncle’s death. They did not marry until they had been together for 42 years and only then because they needed to be married for insurance purposes and for legal protections in the event that one of them passed (for their state). They had four children, were (to my knowledge) faithful to one another the entire time, and were two of the most genuinely happy people I have ever known. Also fuck Mark Driscoll.
I hate when people act like being a dad is some kind of transformative experience. That clearly didn’t happen for thousands of dads. People like this can only exist in the “my personal experience” universe. They are so unoriginal and lacking creativity they can’t imagine other people might be different or have different experiences.
100% they’re very into authority figures and being told what to do. It’s a weird sub role they like to be in. I think this is where some of the abortion energy comes from. They don’t want a woman punished for the abortion, they want the doctor punished, because doctors are seen as authorities.
Ngl I think a lot of Christians are just really into sub/dom relationships without admitting it 🤔 It would be fine if they didn’t assert everyone else absolutely had to act the same way! As long as it’s consensual adults?
@@disembodied1273 Definitely! Christian morality may be accurately described by “might makes right.” From genocides to famines, to slavery, infanticide and the nonconsensual impregnation of a virgin, the Christian god plays by his own rules. He is omnipotent, so everything he does is right and beyond question.
Man, I really felt what Drew said about Mark claiming to speak for God. Before I deconverted, I had a confrontation with my parents because they kept saying things like "God doesn't approve of this" or "God's plan for you is that". I didn't understand how they could know what God wanted for me, and it seemed suspicious that it was always what THEY wanted for me. Now I'm sure they made it the #%*& up.
So weird that they basically believe that relationships are only "good" or "holy" or whatever tf, if they get the government involved (something tells me they wouldn't consider a non-traditional ceremony such as a handfasting or commitment ceremony without a marriage license as legitimate)
I was actually going to comment and ask if people like this pastor say you have to be legally married, or can you just be married through the church? If it's the former, I don't see why either.
I’m Catholic, and I’ve always been taught that church affairs and government affairs should be separated. As long as you are married in the church, you’re married.
22:08 “do you guys have any plans?“ “yeah, we're getting a puppy, starting a business together, going on a backpacking trip to a different continent, .....“ “those are not plans, i have decided“
When I was an evangelical, the only “mental healthcare” available to me was counseling sessions with either the pastor or pastor’s wife. Neither was safe. You could always tell when someone used their services because the next Sunday the pastor would go on a rant about pr0n or secks before marriage and he would always look directly at them from behind the pulpit. Or he would go on a rant saying that you’d have good mental health if you just gave it all to God and he’d stare at them. Long story short, my mental health suffered because I had no one to talk to until I broke down during a routine checkup with my primary care doctor in college. This is straight out of the same playbook and it makes me angry.
Reminds me of my now-estranged parents and now-ex family friends messaging/calling me and telling me how it's not God's plan for me to be trans and I must surely be feeling depressed and unfulfilled while not even remotely interested in actually hearing anything about how my life is going. Which is better and better since accepting myself and leaving all those people and even the lowest points and severe struggles in mental health, daily functioning and financial problems thanks to those people, STILL BETTER THAN LIVING IN A CULT, GASLIT BY PARENTS AND MOST OF ALL BEING AT WAR WITH MY OWN SELF HAVING MY LIFE STOLEN. I've struggled with a lot but it's immeasurably better than that ongoing torture, yeah, I can't even compare that, the concept is universes apart but all those relentless termites want to do is pressure pressure pressure to "come back to Jesus". It's like dealing with robots, but that's what cults do to you and evangelicalism IS a cult by the BITE model.
My sister is trans and I've literally never seen her happier, but my parent still seem to think she is miserable or "sick".....it's wildly insulting that they refuse to believe us when we say we are both happier as we are now (queer, gender non conforming, ex christian communists). I'm sorry you have this experience, too, it sucks. ❤
I love the fact that people within the church believe that marriage is the ONLY way to commit. My ex husband married me in the church and turned out to be a "wolf in sheep's clothing." Starting the day we said "I do" he began abusing me. He abused me emotionally, psychologically, financially, physically, and sexually. When I stood up for myself and left the abuse...begging him to seek help...he abandoned the marriage. Now I don't see marriage as the end goal...but a healthy relationship based on honesty and commitment to be good to each other as the goal. If marriage happens...great and if not, I am ok with a commitment to love each other. I am still a Christian and I am saved by grace...not a ritual!
The funniest thing about this is that I bet you that question was sent by a snarky troll couple 😂 “is it a sin?” Hahaha as if they have no idea how Mark would react. I feel sorry for Grace.
Astonishingly disgusting. I hope this couple is so horribly offended by this that they leave the church and start second guessing where they get their relationship advice.
If some woman has been married to that pastor for 32 years she deserves a medal for her endurance and suffering, or he’s got her tied up in his basement.
They would shit bricks if they ever met me, a lesbian and my fiancée, a trans woman. We've been dating for over two years. When we get married is it more of sin that we have been together this long without being married or is it more of a sin for our mere existence in these peoples eyes?
They are assuming that the “not married” state is his decision. I was the one that was reluctant to walk down the aisle initially in my relationship. Honestly, they are accusing this guy of being a commitment-phobe but I could take the same question and some equally large assumptions to make the case that he was passive aggressively calling her out in their church for not wanting marriage. So much of their narrative plays into the “all women want marriage/need marriage to feel secure” trope.
Y'all picked a great video to cover. The level of ick that I feel from these people just saying things about a couple is staggering. Fun story! My wife and i got married a couple months before our wedding, just so that she would be on my military orders. 23 years later, it's still a great story.
“A mother-son dynamic” pastor man one of the like three things you were told is that they have sex my guy. Get thee behind me, Sigmund Freud. Normally, when someone criticizes a relationship as being more mother-son than romantic, it’s typically when she’s doing all of the housework in the way especially conservative marriages are designed to be.
even when I was a Christian the "don't have sex before marriage thing" always bothered me because literally EVERY SINGLE person who told me NOT to do it had sex before marriage. Not one person warning me of the dangers of premarital sex actually abstained from premarital sex and it just seemed so hypocritical
If I were that young man, assuming he is looking up to Driscoll as a pastor and genuinely looking for an answer from his spiritual leader, I would be devastated at the answer to break up with my significant other of ten years. This is deeply personal and shouldn’t be laughed over like this man’s life and relationship doesn’t matter. They are laughing about this on stage, while I am thinking about how that man must have his heart in his shoes. 😞
To hear Drew say “you don’t deserve any amount of power, I hope you fail” so quickly, bluntly, and dryly. I never ever want to be on your bad side. Clearly, you have a strong moral sense of what is right, and you have the integrity and eloquence to call a spade a spade when it needs to be done.
That's because a lot of the most extreme people on the "left" are actually conservative in terms of being anti freedom. Like when you have black separatists that don't think you should date white people. Well... You've gone so far "left" you're agreeing with white supremacists.
"If you two are living together for ten years outside of marriage then you obviously don't want kids or any responsibilities." I'll wait for him to find out about unmarried couples with kids (their own kids or kids from previous marriage/partnership). I know so many and each of them have their own story.
I wonder what they would say about people on disability who literally canNOT legally get married in the US and keep their disability benefits. Just sinning, I guess. Adam and Eve weren't legally married...
