Atheist Couple React to Christian Sex Advice 

That is so awful :( I'm glad you aren't in that situation anymore, and I hope you and your daughter are safe &sound

I'm so incredibly sorry your ex tarnished your trust and view of Christianity. What he did to you was pure evil.

@@aazhie thank you! We are good now.

@@openlybookish we are MUCH happier as atheists. I love my Christian friends and family members, but we just don't believe any of it. The kids ( ages 30. 27 and 16) live our lives treating people with dignity & respect without the baggage of religion. Our values haven't changed. We've become better people overall.

@@sallycriss353 Hi Sally I appreciate your candid response. I'd be interested to chat further. I know sometimes when someone deconverts they can be quite militant towards Christians.

This made me laugh, thanks

Excellent analogy.

Or learning about Jesus from conservative Christians.

The only thing they have in common is a whip?

But... I learned about sex from Indiana Jones.

w husband

Excellent response from your husband! I cannot fathom how anyone could NOT feel that way, it's such a massive turn-off for me if someone isn't wholeheartedly enthusiastic about it

This is what my husband said.. exactly. What's the point of you're actually not enthusiastic.. he couldn't.

There's a keeper

​@@SilvermoonscorpionChad husband. So glad you got out of that mindset.

😂 right?! She has to be stoned

You guys really think Paul would allow Morgan to partake in "The DEVIL'S lettuce"?!?! Purely speculation here, but... If I had to take a guess, I'd bet he'd scold her for even looking sideways at a lil' weed!!!

​@amandarhoads4640 I dunno, I'm guessing he hits it to...and they've got restraints under their bed😂

I was thinking the same thing! Is she high? Cause she looks kind of out of it

I think that in another reality, Morgan is a weed smokin' hippie chick, and is much happier.

The idea that I didn't own my own body was one of the main reasons why I left church. It's so disturbing to me. I don't understand how anyone would want to live like that, even the men, why would you want to have sex with someone when you can never know if they really want to be doing it.

​@@amberinthemist7912 me too

​@@InescapableRealityOfficial2 Is that sarcastic or..

Dirty Deeds Done With Sheep!!

@@zerosnake2669 nah

That’s one of the many reasons why women are opting out of marriage and children

"That time" was a lot more recent than people may think - it wasn't actually confirmed in the courts in the UK until 1991, and wasn't explicitly enshrined in legislation as a crime until 2003.

That time is still ongoing. Some states don’t recognize marital rape as rape, some don’t unless there was literally a knife or gun held to the victim, and a lot have loop holes for married rapists or even rapists who are not married but in a relationship with the victim. This is definitely something we still need to talk about a lot more.

husband and wife are considered to be ONE FLESH. That's why "raping" your own wife is an oxymoron-

Late but yea this world is f**ked

I am a christian and I don’t agree with that notion. Simply logic would dismantle this argument. Women have a limited timeframe for childbearing. After this time period, they still have 30-40 yrs of life left.

So nature itself made us evolve into mysogynistic creatures, can people admit it?

@@paulajames6149 paula. And?????? U don't understand the argument ur making

Pleasure being a biproduct is a garbage argument. If God made it pleasurable then it is supposed to be pleasurable.

​@@tennicksalvarez9079In the context of Christian think, I believe she means the husband will continue to have sexual needs after the wife is menopausal. If sex was truly meant only for reproduction, then both partners "should" stop sexual activity after the wife's menopause. However, this has historically never been the case, so all those people were being incredibly hypocritical by implicitly saying the man's pleasure without reproduction is correct while condemning women's pleasure in the same breath.

I agree with you, as does my wife, who is a licensed clinical psychotherapist. My wife and I are Christians in the Holy Roman Catholic Church. My wife has led many of our "marriage encounter" groups in California. She has not been asked to lead any marriage encounter sessions since moving to Northern Virginia 15 years-ago. Those who have led the two marriage encounter we've attended, are not licensed psychotherapists.

To her credit, heathen is an accurate term. Though the negative connotation behind the term isn’t great of course

To be fair, proud heathen here, I'll take that title 😂

Worldly heathen is a moniker I won’t reject, either

“Heathen” is too close to the name Heather. I’ve known too many nice and wonderful heathers to ever personally associate heathen with any negative light. I’ll proudly take the label of heathen to help change the connotations.

I will gladly own the term heathen 😂

This is so true. Even P&M talk about how sex is so taboo in the Christian world even for married couples. The evangelical environment I grew up in places so much shame around sex even for married couples. It's only purpose was reproduction. How do you then just shed all that shame because you're suddenly married. Also, with purity culture you're not supposed to know anything about sex and all. For many young people, especially those with vaginas, sex can be uncomfortable to start with, and when you have no knowledge of what might ease the discomfort you begin to associate sex with pain. Then it becomes hard to get aroused and enjoy it. I had a friend to through this situation and it was heart breaking.

Interesting observation. That seems like a common theme in ideologies that frequently use fear and shame to control behavior.

@@Daeuse And that becomes a vicious cycle. Because they can't get aroused, it is more likely to be painful. And the shame may be stopping them from just buying some lube, so it keeps being painful, which makes it harder to get aroused the next time, and round and round it goes. I think heart breaking really is the best descriptor for that.

yes thank you for bringing this up! it's not a switch you flip because you proposed or have a ring on your finger. i wish this was talked about more.

I agree about the sexual repression being an ongoing issue. Most men I expect, don't experience as much attenuation of their libido though, as a result of purity culture, either before or after marriage. Why should a religious (or secular) ceremony and a paper certificate have any effect on libido right? But for men the biological drive to reproduce is ubiquitous because they carry the pollen like a bee to a flower which is rooted in one place. For females, the practical investment in sexual reproduction and cost of child bearing is comparatively massive. The biological (and by extension psychological/instinctive) reason why females are reluctant to procreate is they have more invested in long-term partnership. Males tend towards fast red cars with hoods that drop at the push of a button. Females are interested in after sales service, insurance and long-term reliability. Biologically what gets a females genes into future generations is different than what does the same thing for males. Of course, before the invention of contraceptives, sexual repression and abstinence had a part to play in population control. In anycase, I've long nurtured a hypothesis about religious worship and particularly the more exuberant emotional varieties, as a kind of emotional surrogate for sexual passion. The power to invoke a strong emotional experience in church can usurp and suppress, the motive to indulge the emotional rewards for sex. Having a communal practice of sexual repression, is setting up a motive for religious excitement or even ecstacy. From a religious perspective it's a method of control and conformity. Basically, if you're sexualy repressed and shit in bed, you can go to church instead and get your rocks off in a group mental masturbation session.

wow, i'm glad you think otherwise now. i hope you're doing better

Sorry this happened to you.

Thanks! This was over 20 years ago - I've come a long way since then! But there were 2 children born to that marriage before I "woke up" and while I've always done my best, and therefore know that guilty feelings are unwarranted for any damage done to them on my journey, self-forgiveness (as well as forgiveness to my parents, because as wrong as I feel they were, they were also doing their best at the time) is not something that just "happens" and both that and the deep seeded mentality planted in my youth still pops up in odd ways occasionally now. It's soooo insidious and damaging!! Which is why I get so angry at such casual treatment of it by religions and the people who follow them. 😒

Damm sounds rough.

​@@amandaw6872 Did he ever understand what he did to you? Or that it was wrong, damaging and cruel? I hope you have experiences now that shows you respect for your borders both in and out of the bedroom.

Good grief why would you even watch people like that? That seems just horrible.

⁠@BCTMBeven then, marriage between 2 virgins is not the ideal. it’s an option, absolutely, but shouldn’t be put on a pedestal. still an unhealthy mindset to have. what’s more realistic from a christian perspective would be to recognize the complexity of human sexuality given to us by god, and let others live how to wish to live

@@sorryoutlandishits refreshing to see someone from the theistic side with an open minded view. That is assuming you are a christian. Sorry if i assumed wrong

You're a wonderful spouse for helping him discover the term for his orientation. Knowledge about niche orientations is so important. I'm asexual, too, and while I never thought I was broken, I did know that I was different (considered if I just was a lesbian, I was not), and discovering the term was a relief. My boyfriend is allosexual, and we are doing well so far, he's very respectful as well. Hearing that it works long-term give me hope :)

Right on. My partner has sexual trauma (FROM Evangelicism) and sometimes can't have sex for months. It doesn't cause problems within our relationship. It's a particular form of bonding and I miss it sometimes, but we bond other ways and I don't feel like i'm being deprived of something I'm entitled to. I love them, I don't want to view them as a needs-meeting machine.

Much respect for you all. Not sure how you do it.

I'm in a similar situation! my partner is likely somewhere on the ace spectrum and has past trauma. we've worked on and continue to work on what sex and intimacy looks like for us and not what it's "supposed" to look like based on everyone else. it's never been a huge issue, it's just what our relationship looks like and requires open and honest communication even in the times where our desires differ. sex isn't the only way to be intimate and we don't have to follow the "typical" relationship model. thank you for allowing that space for your partner and helping him through his sexuality journey. i wish all the best for your relationship!!

I will never marry an asexual girl😭.I don't give a fuck if she is romantic,demi whatever.I want a girl to enjoy sex with me just like people enjoy food together😭.They feel disgusted if you have sex with them. So you did the good thing by not forcing him to have sex.

id at least want someone to play chess with lol with cannabis blunts and whiskey shots

This is a great point

Have you seen her husband? Paul is the embodiment of emotional abuse in a relationship. He is absolutely disgusting.

@@AB-80X she doesn't want to fuck him cuz he does things that make him unfuckable in a relationship. But my point was more to encourage others to check in with spouses and take healthy approachs, approachs paul couldn't even fathom.

There are literally people with a kink for being seen as mother though

Beautifully shared Catherine. Selflessness goes both ways.

And if the horny partner really needs relief and their spouse is not feeling it, they can just self-satisfy themselves and call it a day! It doesn't need to ALWAYS be an activity for two ;^^ Everyone has different needs and it's so important to respect each other's boundaries!

Yeh it is damaging because it’s sex without consent which is the textbook definition of SA. Thinking abt having relations with someone unwilling makes me want to vomit. How sad and desperate dos a person have to be in order to engage with their partner like that.

I agree. I like this point and hadn’t thought of it before!

@@misscrackwood but then again, Paul and Morgan think that playing solo is bad so that option doesn't exist in their mind. You can't solo it, you can't just not have it, therefore, to them the only solution is to force yourself/ your partner into sex which is why everyone is (rightfully so) mad at them.

That sounds insane and I'm sorry that happened to you. I'm kind of the same way and I feel alot of shame towards sex but in the Bible it does say a woman's desire is for her husband and man's for his wife. Sex is the most intimate experience you can have with another person and it goes much deeper than reproduction, which is a deep thing too to have a baby from it. But sex is an expression of love because sex is what makes a marriage a marriage and different than just being friends. Marriage isn't a paper contract, or a religious ritual, it is a vow of loyalty to who you love and sex is part of it. I'm a Christian and this is just what I get from the Bible on it.

That's so weird and illogical. Men like to feel wanted too!! No hate on you! Im just saying the ppl who preach those ideas must be having rlly terrible sex on both sides. The woman gets no pleasure and the man gets no response or reaction. Sounds completely awkward and dead Tbh

That was pretty much implied through my upbringing as well, and while it's obviously damaging for girls on a personal level it also trains boys to act in predatory ways because they think it's normal to only think of their own pleasure and disregard their partner's wishes

sleeping around makes you a wh.ore

​@@marvin2678same goes for you my guy

Do you have a link to a reupload? He always gives me weird vibes and this doesn’t surprise me that he would say that ngl lol.

@@sanaishere18 fundie Fridays have a clip of it in one of their videos. I’ll try to find it and leave a time stamp.

@@paigechinaski7660did you find the clip?

​​@@TheNinthGenerarion @rockyishere557 ~ I found what you were both looking for (link at bottom). It begins at 47:39; stick around afterwards for homophobia, transphobia, and the dingleberry's intimation on how disgusting he finds his wife's postpartum body. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wKnKPMNF5Vo.htmlsi=G_ttG334AOBPgRZQ

It’s pretty natural to be 100 years behind the times and beliefs of common society of you are a Christian. Misogyny, racism, homophobia are all very present, real and essentially unavoidable undercurrents to Christianity at large today.

Makes me sad that it seems anyone on the ace spectrum is shamed into doing something they would not choose for themselves. Seems like a lot of churches want to make ace people force themselves to do things that are repellent to them. So sad and awful!

You married him to have kids with?

​@@-whackd not all married couples want children.

Thank you for writing this. My first thought when they brought up the notion of having sex against your will had anything to do with "selfless love" was why it never occurred to neither Paul nor Morgan to consider the selfless love of NOT demanding sex of your partner just because you want sexual pleasure. But honestly, their twisted idea of owing each other sex and not having the right to your own body at least bears some kind of consistency with the idea that you shouldn't engage in any self-pleasuring. It's not even close to healthy, though, for sure.

@@-whackd she probably married him because she loved him. That's why most people get married.

are you still pentecostal?

@@pinkcockroach No, thankfully I found my way to freedom. Albeit in an unpleasant way, but still beautiful freedom.

@@kiterafrey thank you for sharing that to me, im pentecostal too and i recently just cut off all my relations to their church so it's somehow comforting to know it's not just me

sex isnt evil, but sleeping with random men is

​@@marvin2678no it isn't. Besides who said anything about having random hookups. You can preach abstinence without making sex look like a bad thing. The fact that most people aren't taught proper sex education is the reason why straight women only experience orgasm from 7% of men

Weird and aPAULing.

It'll never catch on.

Hahahaha, idk, I'm jewish too, I belive most non orthodox jews believe that. i can't speak for the super orthodox community though

That's not weird, that's normal

Revolutionary, even

@yupyup3878 It's never too late to explore! Maybe therapy or something could help? You are of course welcome in the ace community as long as you feel that way, but I wouldn't give up hope ✊ phobias can be overcome

It's the first time I see asexuality equated with solo sex. Wouldn't an asexual person be just as likely to want solo sex as they would be to want sex with a partner?

@@Nathouuuutheone it's different for everyone, I can only speak for myself

@@Nathouuuutheone Depends, I think. Some even are okay witgh sex, just don't crave it. I am not Ace myself, so take this with a grain of salt & correct me if i'm wrong, but my impression was there are at least three types of person that describe themselves as asexual: 1. Sex repulsed/ negative asexuals: Actively dislike the sexual feelings of the body, and hence avoid sex at all. 2. Sex neutral asexuals: Sex does nothing for them, but doesn't feel per se bad for them, and they might do it to please a partner - kinda like a massage. 3. Sex positive asexual ppl: By describing themselves as asexual typically mean they don't get turned on by other ppl, and not attracted by others, but do enjoy the purely mechanical - bodily feelings of it and have it from time to time for that reason alone - without lusting for the other person. Kinda like a group sport of sorts, I guess. I imagine in the third group there are plenty who enjoy masturbation for the same reasons - some that prbly still don't want to do it with others for one reason or the other. Remember: You don't have to be turned on or imagine others or watch porn or such to masturbate; You as well can do it solely mechanically to induce nice bodily feelings, relief stress, etc.

@jerome96114 which is why I avoided implying asexuals don't have sex at all. My point is that the original comment seems to imply that asexual = solo sex, which is reductive and misrepresentative in a whole different way. I'm not assuming it's meant as literal and in bad faith, but the implication is there and I wanted to check if OP was aware it was there.

Thank you for your kind comment!

Doing it at that time is unhealthy and unclean. She ought to be kept apart until it's over.

Heh, "wanting sex while on her period"... Don't think there is such a thing. ;-) ( But your point is fair, and it should be included in any discussion of marital sexual duties. 👍) PS Although what Paul says at 45:46 seems to indicate that he's at least fair and distributes such duties equally.

That's actually one of the reasons that it took so long for martial rape to actually become a crime. It was felt that neither partner was allowed to ever say no.

​@@irrelevant_noob Very wrong. An ex of mine would get extremely horny while on her period, which I thought was awesome. Not saying the same applies to all women, but it definitely applies to some.

​@@irrelevant_noob yes there is :)

LOL

Exactly. xD I wonder if they actually understand the meanings of the words they use.

Next time laugh, I read it's good for your health. 😊

I always think of American Dad where Stan says it'll lead to horses eating each other 😅

"I know A LOT more about him now." Lemme guess pure boy was not so pure lol

+

IME yes in many Evangelical spaces. As long as your not roleplaying as idol-worshipping Catholics or something lol. When my partner's childhood friend got married at 19 (bc she and her boyfriend wanted to have sex) all the older church ladies who were like moms to her gave her sex dice and maid outfits and shit at her bridal shower. True fucking story.

XD wow, that seems way wilder than I would have expected for evangelicals

@@aazhie I'm a leftist who grew up in San Francisco and I was completely scandalized lol. Just really uncomfortable with the fact that it was these ladies her moms age who she grew up with.

Getting your dad drunk so he can impregnate you is accepted biblical kink.

@@stilltrying619 Catholics don’t worship idols or statues; they venerate them.

orr they simply dont do it

@BCTMB being indoctrinated to believe cohabitation, premarital sex and divorce are not allowed, decrease the likelihood of divorce and increase the likelihood of people who did not cohabiate and have premarital sex, staying in unhappy, abusive marriages rather than opting for divorce. Correlation is not causation, and divorce is not a bad thing.

@BCTMB but then you added a correlation which does not exist. Cohabitation and premarital sex do not actually increase statistic for divorce. A more accurate statement would have been "Christians do not usually cohabitate, do not usually have premarital sex and also do not usually divorce." They're not divorcing because they're Christian, NOT because they didn't cohabiate or have premarital sex.

@BCTMB they actually don't disagree. The studies I looked up literally half an hour ago show that Christians don't divorce because they don't believe in divorce and for no other reason. The only correlation is that Christians don't do X Y Z, not that X and Y will cause Z to happen.

the main research i have seen that would prove your point is from Brigham Young University... do you really trust them to have a completely unbiased view in this area?? does it not seem convenient to you, at all, that one of the largest Mormon institutions in america would have findings that support their teachings? their study was also only conducted on 100 people. if you look at marital happiness instead, which is what OP was actually talking about, the differences are very minor (particularly for women). women who have had only 1 sex partner are only 8% more likely to report having a very happy marriage than women with 21+ sex partners. if you take into account how many people with only 1 sex partner are likely from strict religious backgrounds in which they feel pressure to be and pretend to be happy in their marriages, that difference is very little. The difference is a bit starker for men, but then again, men who have had 6-10 sex partners were more likely to report having a very happy marriage than men who had 4 or 5 sex partners. similarly for women, women with 11-20 sex partners were more likely to report having very happy marriages than women who have had 4 sex partners. and if you look closer at this data you'll realize that it's from the freaking institute for family studies and they themselves are considered a right leaning/conservative value biased source. there simply isnt enough strong, unbiased evidence to support the idea that having less premarital sex partners leads to a *happier* marriage, and therefore a marriage with "less issues". if all you care about are divorce rates then you should know that of course religious people will have less sex partners when married and that most religions are severely against divorce. you dont need a study to tell you that. please let me know where your data actually comes from since you're claiming that there are a ton of scientific studies and experts who are making the claim youre asserting. if you really are just talking about divorce rates then you cannot just ignore the likelihood that secular people are more likely to get divorced, not because theyre less happy, but because they dont have as much shame and indoctrination built into them telling them that divorce isnt an option.@BCTMB

Thank you for pointing that out. They seem to be taking an *incredibly* charitable take on what Paul and Morgan are saying here. But previous things they've said make things way less clear. I definitely agree that people over read into their body language in the most ridiculous ways, but you don't need to imagine paragraphs in the body language when their explicit words they say are enough.

But Dennis Prager said it was okay for you to make your woman do it even if she doesn't want to do it!!!

wait, what?! "why partners should not deny sex even when the other is upset" -- i don't think the one doing the denying is the OTHER than the one who is upset... :-B (But yeah, i agree that enthusiastic consent should be the requirement for sex.)

@@irrelevant_noob fixed it!

@Albinojackrussel I agree too. I'm not going to lie, I also fall into that trap sometimes. Honestly, with what I know of their relationship (far too much) leads me to fill in gaps in their body language I normally wouldn't. But I am trying to be better with that stuff. Especially since the things they say ARE enough to critique.

She is a women and in Christianity she’s a second class citizen. Have to follow her husband.

Hes so confident of every stance he has and he's always so wrong. He was completely home-schooling by fundie parents and has no tertiary education.

Hahahaaha Jesus Certified Sex Champion hahahhha omg

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@noone-jw7nd its really sad tbh. slight rant. i major in ed, and i’m so hesitant on homeschooling because of fundies like paul and most likely his parents. i support it for accelerated learners and students with disabilities, but the freedom is too often abused by people like them to willingly deprive their children of often vital life information. almost like child abuse in my eyes. it’s incomprehensible to me why you would want to ill-prepare your child, especially to paul’s degree, but i think it’s a testament to how deep these beliefs go

Still relevant to have some ace perspective, for sure! P&M don't seem to acknowledge that someone could innately have no desire or interest in sex. That really shames a lot of people for very normal existence :(

For my ex, sex was the most important part in a relationship, she left me because I wasn't good enough :(

Yeah I'm genuinely hurt by their opinions because I'm a mega-crybaby.

Literally before I got together with my girlfriend I had this exactly ( she trans) . And it definitely held me back at first but it's definitely possible to find people who won't guilt trip you about it

​@@MisterPyOneI'm sorry

No shit, look at moses and the midianite girls and tell me if you think there's any good on that.

You don’t have to be religious to do that fyi

I never understood the whole "save yourself for marriage". For one, it only applies to women. So, I hate that. I honestly think it's part of the "keep them ignorant, keep them under control" mindset. That's why translating the bible was wrong and only those of the church could read the bible. Ignorance is easier to control. Part of the reason they murdered women who could read and didn't want to follow that archaic crap.

@@fairygodmother139 True, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a ridiculous and outdated tradition.

How is this popular advice? Do you mean specially in religious circles?

@@annarocha3254 yeah that was the context

Very moses of them to treat their spouses like a midianite child, go search these two.

You are conflating what the Old Testament says with the rhetoric of the New Testament. The Old testament contains many cultural viewpoints directed at Judaism and how they should regulate their moral law. In other words, the book of Leviticus were directed at the Levites, not Christians. But Christian can still discern from the literature which practises are useful and relevant, while others may be more relevant to the Levites of the time, as the book was written with respect to the issues the Levites faced, not Greeks or Americans, for instance

@@DieSchiss imagine jesus calling epstein a saint, then imagine that epstein didn't tell for a genocide, that's what i think about christianism.

@@fss1704 First of all, it's not "christianism", it is Christendom. Secondly, your analogy is completely irrelevant because Jesus actively warned us AGAINST sin, like every other messenger of God before him. The Israelites acted in ways they believed were not sinful in order to gain God's sympathy. For example, the 10 commandments doesn't command "thou shalt not kill" but rather "thou shalt not murder." War and murder was necessary for the Israelites to protect themselves and their home land. Also, many atheists like to point at verses where it says "and the babies will be bashed against rocks" etc etc. But this is not God commanding them to bash the babies head's against stones, but rather it is a kind of prophecy/prediction of what will happen if they don't listen to God and keep to His ways. God doesn't perform the bashing of the babies, He warned them about it. We are the ones who commits evil - never God. When we argue God's existence, atheists default by saying "look what evil God is." But they easily forget that even through their naturalistic lens, humans are responsible for all the evil in the world, all the suffering. You need to seriously reanalyse what the Old Testament says in context of what us humans knew, not like the Muslims who believe the Quran is the eternal word from God.

@@DieSchiss First, he didn't consider pedophily a sin, he didn't consider murder in the name of god a sin, he didn't consider slavery a sin. 2nd: Murder is by definition of the act of killing, you really have no point trying to newspeak for stuff that in practice is the same thing, and if you were to make this argument you would be really no different than that german mid the 20th century. ALSO, you're assuming it was neccessary, but you didn't mention that the necessity was to avoid the god people going to midianite whorehouses. 3RD: i'm not even using this argument, this says more about what you think. 4TH: " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, **AND CREATE EVIL**: I the Lord do all these things." Good luck trying to study excusologetics for that while also trying to explain the existance of evil at the same time as an omnipotent omniscient and omnibenevolent god that does shit to end evil.

17:53

Scratchin’ Vinyl. Bedroom DJ? Droppin’ a Beat?!

#WickaWicka@@nasonguy

1. If you want sex, you have to get married 2. You're not allowed to pleasure yourself or explore your sexuality 3. Get married super early to someone you're probably not compatible with so you can have sex 4. Can't meet each other's needs, so guilt each other into doing things you don't want to do 5. You're not allowed to divorce now that you know you're not right for each other, so abuse and hate each other for years out of spite and frustration Yep, seems like the worst possible way to go about it.

I didn't wait for marriage, went on to discover that I don't really enjoy sex, even though I want it, I feel pleasure only with myself. I've heard so many times that you can only enjoy sex with someone you marry and before I deconstructed, I struggled so much with guilt and shame. I still struggle with sex but I'm happy to have gotten rid of all that shame

I was looking for this comment - I thought the same, in a situation where masturbation is off limits, it makes sense there would be another rule about not denying your partner. It's so wild to me though, that the solution for christians isn't to allow masturbation (which they really have no solid reason to ban) but to remove consent!

I am hoping they understand that there is a lot more to things. I don’t think they are bad people it’s just not okay as a blank statement

It’s obvious from the way that they talk that these two have very limited experience or understanding of very much at all. What’s worse is they’re putting it out there and telling other people that their limited perspective is correct. I shudder to think about a Christian who listens to this crap, believes it, and then has to go through what you went through.

@@elosoguapo8137 yea I think it really does show. Because my best friend is religious, and I'm not really sure what I think anymore for my beliefs. She had me go with her because I was going through a lot, and she thought it would help me to be part of something again. but my beliefs now more so not and I don't really consider myself religious but I do have an understanding on it, but I think in some ways it can be a nice community based on our youth group leaders, they were amazing people, but I do get frustrated when people use the bible or religion to hate. I know they probably didn't mean to hurt people, but they need to be more careful for the amount of following they have. There was an older guy in that same youth group, and he and his wife were very religious, with no doubts. But the guy, 50 or 60s I think, who told me if I prayed god would heal me and then I could get over it, or something like that. I don't remember the exact words right now, but cherish and jordan (the caring and amazing people) cherish stood up for me and told him that is not how it works. Because I didn't say exactly, but I did say I was used and was crying and opening up about stuff, and for him to just say if I pray, it will solve all my problems, and mental health can be solved by praying basically. And even his wife was like, uh... but didn't really go to the level cherish did to support me. I think it's really just them not knowing how bad things are or not caring enough to look into it more when people are telling them it hurts. I wasn't saying I hated them or wanted anything terrible to them; I said what they told felt disgusting to me and was not okay. Hating on them doesn't solve it, but I know some people come from a calmer place but even then they still don't seek more information? That's where it feels like I don't think there is a lot else I can do for them to stop, but I can tell what happened to me and what they are saying is not right, and nobody owes their body to anyone,, and if you are uncomfortable it should be respected. Bear minimum. Also with going back and picking and choosing is a whole other problem. But thank you, I already typed quite a bit so I will leave it off here I tend to ramble

@@Sweetpeachyfrog What angers me about people who push you to pray to solve real problems or tell you that they’ll pray for you is that their motives aren’t always very good. Some of them think it will actually help. Some push prayer, because Whether or not it works, if a person feels better they’ll maybe attribute it to the prayer (could have been many other variables) and that person is then more likely to join their church. When you’re at your lowest is when these charlatans come after you. Absolute parasites. The truth is that we get better by talking to others and receiving proper treatment for trauma. That doesn’t make the trauma go away, but it does help to process.

I’ve noticed that plenty of people can have terrible beliefs but talk about them in a “sweet and respectful” way. It’s makes it really difficult to stand up for yourself IRL.

Omg thats so wholesome 😭😭

I wish the best for you in your journey and hope you find excellent supportive communities to be there with you through the hard days. I've found that various art communities and improv acting groups have been a great source of healing for me being in a fully excepting and caring community that focuses on developing your creative inner life. I hope you can find what works for you in your healing journey, and thank you dearly for sharing a bit of your journey!

what happened ?

Is he ex fundamental? ex Christian ? or ex husband? Sorry, I am confused

@@jamesparson ex husband, you're right I did slaughter that

@@notheothersarah no worries. I have done worse.

That's what you get marrying a gay man

@@fss1704 that's what my dad saaaaid 🤔😂

i grew up in an evangelical/"non denominational" church and our youth leaders dedicated whole sermons on how evil masturbation and pornorgraphy is. so they'd tell a bunch of 13-17 year olds self pleasure is considered a sin, so hurry up and get married!!! it's fucked up hahaha

@@tallmoth Yep I thought it was refreshing that the church I went to for a while it was understood that porn was bad, masturbation was OK as long as you weren't using any materials or visualising anyone (unless you were married and then your spouse was OK). It was looked at as getting needed relief. Never had it mentioned like that in a sermon but it was something that was known in the 30+ age range.

​@@amandamandamands one of them Mark Driscoll doctrines lol

I came here to say this. Never watched porn to see how it’s done, I only ever did it because being turned on was pleasant for me at that time. And as the man said, don’t know masturbation, it’s sex with somebody you really love. The man was admittedly a bit of a narcissist, as it later emerged, but the point stands.

Just for fun I've watched a few of these christian 'morality' videos and I find it interesting that in all the talk about pornography, its NEVER mentioned what the person in that porn movie may have experienced. One guy said 'ah,they're getting paid" as if that makes everything ok. The circumstance around the individual pornography I think is the ONLY real issue. Its odd that these christian videos see NO problem in the constant barrage of violence that is entertainment, but seeing two people have sex is armageddon.

Hey, you had a kinder mindset than they seem to do about anyone that does or says things they don't approve of! You tried, and they dropped the ball :/

Maybe what they really want to mean (but aren't acknowledging) is that people who aren't sexually compatible shouldn't get married. If one person wants sex every day and the other is asexual...no amount of compromise is going to make that work. The sexual person never getting consent is just as cruel of a situation and not allowing the asexual person to consent.

Please feel free! We’d love continued discussion on this!

@@theantibot 😊

No but really, this conversation is EXACTLY what’s needed. Open your hearts and trust your guide, engage with love and let’s see what can happen here that may be what could happen everywhere, eventually, with respect for history and the absent history that has been a constant evolution of understanding. Please. Not for your own legacy, but to usher in a new understanding. No one may say, “the future of engagement was paved by these influencer couples,” but it may be a gate to the yard with a side-door to the future… center yourselves in empathy, and then do this PLEASE.

Now there's an idea!

I agree

I know right. They both need to talk to mickey for help. They are both off but more him. Something isn't right upstairs with him. Just can't place it

Does Morgan come across as drunk to anyone else?

@@stealthcactus I get what you mean lolz . I wonder sometimes

They’re both insufferable, but she actually bothers me more. She’s so arrogant and for what? She just repeats nonsense that she heard other Christians say. Not one independent thought in her head!

Sounds like someone is Jelly

I am an atheist. I wish I could communicate better with Christians. I wish I knew how to be better.

@@jamesparson What do you mean? What kind of things have you said? Talk to them how you would talk to anyone you genuinely want to help.

@@jamesparson Where does the difficulty generally arise for you? I'm a Christian and I don't mind talking to anyone unless they immediately start making assumptions about my life before we've even begin a discussion.

@@annarocha3254 I could bring up a lot of things. But I am just going to bring up one for sake of brevity. The willingness of Christians to excuse criminal behavior within their organizations is not positive. It is treated as a de facto tenet and it is one that I don't want to subscribe to. Let me describe this in a different way. The fact that a given church had to pay $100s of millions to victims of abuse, is not a sign of the need of salvation. It is not a sign of a fallen world. It is a sign religion leads to gullible people who are to indoctrinated to see what is right in front of their eyes. ~~~~~~ I don't know if you want to answer that comment. I am an atheist. Don't quote the Bible. It doesn't carry their weight for me as it does you.

@@jamesparson I'm a bit confused I don't know that anyone sees the church's restitution to victims of abuse as a sign of salvation. I also think the claim that excusing criminal behavior is a "de facto tenet" of Christianity needs to be backed up a bit. I certainly recognize that abuses have been covered up; much to the shame of many, many Christians. But it is another leap entirely to say that it is de facto.

Paul is still mad about it so I wouldn say it did cause some

Christianity is all about saying you believe what you know not to be true.

The latter still doesn’t address the idea of “owing.”

I agree, some of the others videos have been so hostile forwards P+M. It’s the main reason I still watch this channel now

Yeah, I think that even if you don;t want to HAVE se before marriage, it's a good idea to TALK about it. You need to have some way of knowing that you and your future spouse are on the same page about it.

As a hetero guy I found Morgan absolutely mesmerising. She is beautiful and cute as hell. But she seems so off and low. She must be on something. Some medication or drug. Wonder if she is a happy girl.

And milk😂

Yes. She keeps looking away like she is very uncomfortable,...not in her element

Did intentionally reference our multiversal lord and oppressor Darkseid?

@@JaceDeanLove yes

A lot of historians have noted that Paul seems to be sex repulsed, which is pretty interesting to explore. Just based on his writing, it seems to be quite clear something is different than most other parts if the bible

@@aazhie that's very interesting, thanks for sharing!

Totally agree with you and @aazhie. Paul always struck me as a sex-repulsed asexual too. Even before I knew that, hey, those are legitimate things that one (like myself) can be! Which is why I find allosexual Christians taking sex and relationship advice from him after all this time hilarious, but I am a heathen after all...

Now ask yourself this: how do you think their concept of which person needs to be selfless changes if it’s the woman asking for sex instead of the man

@@Faint366 Inconceivable! Woman never want sex and men never don't. Right?

So there's this organization called The Consent Awareness Network that fights to get meaningful consent laws passed, and their definition of consent blew my mind. According to them, it's not about how the victim behaves during sex, or whether they say yes/no. It's about whether one participant is using *force, fear (including fear of emotional abuse), fraud, or incapacity* to obtain sex from the other. So under this definition you arguably didn't consent, because you were operating under coercion and manipulation. If you're interested the podcast "Indoctination" (about coercive control, with a therapist who specializes in it) has a good interview with 2 women representing this organization called "Codifying Consent w/ Joyce Short & Nina Lucas." (TW as you'd imagine for descriptions of assault scenarios)

@@stilltrying619 thanks. I may check it out. I know what you are saying. But society hasn't caught up. He believes himself the victim of my "abuse". He's never elaborated on what it is I'd done. But he has never done anything wrong, just ask him. I would love to say the above was the extent of his controlling behaviour. It wasn't. My daughter loves Heartstopper. One thing that stood out to me was the scene at the end of the sports day where Nick took Charlie's hand and led him away to talk. In most romance movies he would have kissed him in front of everyone before they had sorted anything out. I liked this modelling. The show isn't perfect, but nothing is. But throughout were little moments modelling consent that it was nice to see. Gives me hope.

​@@carpevinum8645 Yea absolutely true that the culture isn't there yet. I get it with the "Oh no, SHE abused ME." I was trafficked & abused by my father my whole childhood, and he got his whole extended family to side with him. Like your ex and so many others, he was just victimized by me, his mysteriously insane & vindictive child. My uncle on my mom's side was raised Catholic & called my father after he found out, expecting him to play the repentant sinner. Hah. I do see little changes in media, & in kids awareness. Your description of that scene made me smile

@StillTrying I'm so sorry. I am lucky to have my parents and little brother. I don't know that I'd be here without them. He worked hard to distance me, but never managed to cut me off. Understanding what happened and moving forward is still a process, even so many years later. I hope you have found people who genuinely care for you.

@@carpevinum8645 So glad you've had your parents and brother supporting you. I have a really supportive community now and the best spouse I could imagine, so I'm doing much much better. As for you, the recovery is an ongoing process. Wish you all good things!